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Underrated climbs in the Lakes?

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 C Witter 06 Feb 2021

Hey up,

Some years back, Rog Wilko produced this great list of "Neglected Gems in the Lakes": https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/set.php?id=637

Has anyone got any other "neglected" or "underrated" climbs to recommend, preferably below E2? Or... even, underrated crags?

Just making up ticklists out of boredom for when we're finally allowed a slightly longer leash. Ta!
C

1
In reply to C Witter:

a day day out on on Pen in the Duddon would turn up some neglected gems:

A Quick One (E2 5b)

and there’s cornflake buttress across the river if you want some adventure.

OP C Witter 06 Feb 2021
In reply to paul_the_northerner:

> a day day out on on Pen in the Duddon would turn up some neglected gems:

> and there’s cornflake buttress across the river if you want some adventure.


That looks great! Bold, though!

1
In reply to C Witter:

> That looks great! Bold, though!

Yeah a fair way between gear. It’s definitely easier than 5b though 🙂

 dinodinosaur 06 Feb 2021
In reply to C Witter:

The Shroud (VS 4c)

A bit of a perplexing crux in a fantastic situation. It's a shame about the last super secret Heather-bashing pitch, but is a more than worthwhile excursion! 

 Skyfall 06 Feb 2021
In reply to C Witter:

https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/castle_rock_of_triermain-443/chape...

I give you Chapel Cracks HS at Castle Rock.  Often wet, bold, overlooked ... but actually quite a cool route.  

https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/gouther_crags-485/scabby_horse-350...

and then, Scabby Horse VS at Gouther.  Very well protected, short crux, nice climbing, far better than the name suggests ! 

 Skyfall 07 Feb 2021

and finally...

https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/bowderstone_crags-753/wodens_cheek...

Woden’s Cheek, a horribly bold start above a sloping hillside, but good climbing easing rapidly on good rock.  HS when I first led it (took me a couple of visits to convince myself to do it), now VS.  A challenge as an aspiring leader.  

 Purple 07 Feb 2021
In reply to C Witter:

The Minotaur HVS 4c (not 4a as in the log on here). Buckbarrow Crag, Longsleddale. Top pitch a bit pokey, but only 4c. 

OP C Witter 07 Feb 2021
In reply to Skyfall:

I've not done Chapel Cracks - is it Birkett route? From a distance, it always looked a bit awkward, brutal and dirty, but I'll take another look. I've done the top section of Scabby Horse via Hernia - which was very enjoyable. Gouther's a brilliant place.

1
OP C Witter 07 Feb 2021
In reply to Purple:

I've been meaning to look at those single pitch routes at Buckbarrow- I've only done a couple of the longer easy routes. Never sure if the crux is the approach or the parking!

1
 Mike-W-99 07 Feb 2021
In reply to Skyfall:

Bit of a one move wonder? Would probably get severe 4c in Northumberland?

Further up the hill I thought this was worth doing. https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/bowderstone_crags-753/bowderstone_...

 Jon Stewart 07 Feb 2021
In reply to C Witter:

Not necessarily underrated, but it took me a long time to get round to doing Substitute (E2 5c). Twas on the last trad day of the season and we ran away from the crag freezing cold without doing Hearth Direct (E2 5c)

Wouldn't call it an underrated crag particularly, its that very slatey, dodgy rock (the old red guide calls it "natural slate" but you'll know what you're getting - rough bubbly lava rock it ain't). 

 Jon Stewart 07 Feb 2021
In reply to C Witter:

I haven't done them yet, but I've been intending to do the E1s on Crinkle Crags (shelter and terrace crags). Long walk up to slightly scrappy crags I guess, but I like that kind of thing. 

 Baron Weasel 07 Feb 2021
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> I haven't done them yet, but I've been intending to do the E1s on Crinkle Crags (shelter and terrace crags). Long walk up to slightly scrappy crags I guess, but I like that kind of thing. 

I'll come and climb these with you Jon! 

 Jon Stewart 07 Feb 2021
In reply to Baron Weasel:

> I'll come and climb these with you Jon! 

Wicked! Needs a dry spell I guess and will probably be filthy...but you can say that about most of the Lakes. 

1
 spenser 07 Feb 2021
In reply to C Witter:

The crux pitch of Isengard on Dow Crag was utterly fabulous. There are 4 or 5 hard moves, all had decent gear relatively close, although I did almost entirely run out of gear by the end of the pitch! I think I had 2 wires and a sling left for the belay, fortunately the perfect size!

 Jon Stewart 07 Feb 2021
In reply to spenser:

> The crux pitch of Isengard on Dow Crag was utterly fabulous. There are 4 or 5 hard moves, all had decent gear relatively close, although I did almost entirely run out of gear by the end of the pitch! I think I had 2 wires and a sling left for the belay, fortunately the perfect size!

I'd put that more in the "classic" category, combined with Samba Pa Ti it's a route I'll do over and over again. The guy who led the main pitch last time I did it managed to wander around all over that slab miles away from any gear and on small holds, so I'd add that the route-finding can be tricky!

 Derek Furze 07 Feb 2021
In reply to Jon Stewart:

Yes, these look esoteric to some extent, but definitely on my list for a visit.  With ab stations apparently in place, a bit of cleaning might be possible.

 petegunn 07 Feb 2021
In reply to C Witter:

It gets 3 stars but I don't think many climb it but Smugglers Chimney on Gable is superb for something a little different! 

Smuggler's Chimney (VS 4c)

https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/gable_crag-521/smugglers_chimney-3...

Post edited at 12:14
J1234 07 Feb 2021
In reply to C Witter:

You would enjoy the Buckstone Girdle and I thought Sergeant Crag Gully was good, but I know others who were less than impressed.

1
 StevieH 07 Feb 2021
In reply to Jon Stewart:

Went up to Shelter crags that last hot summer! Routes had no chalk on them but were clean and rough.

Pretty exposed to the elements up there and not a lot of ground above them to drain. However saying that three tarns were basically 3 peaty pits.

not quite worth all the stars though!

 petegunn 07 Feb 2021
In reply to C Witter:

Recommend those single pitch routes at Buckburrow. Had a lovely day their ticking off the 3 HVS and E1

The Hog's Back (HVS 5a)

The Clangers (HVS 5a)

Express Crack (E1 5b)

Post edited at 12:51
 petegunn 07 Feb 2021
In reply to C Witter:

Not the longest of routes but the quality is superb with rough and pocketed rock - think Golden Slipper top pitch.

Bright Beck Crag behind Pavey

Bright Beck Crag

 alan moore 07 Feb 2021
In reply to C Witter:

Taylor Gill Slabs.

Short and easy beginners crag. Miles better than the Seathwaite slabs, as good as Glaciated slab and an easier walk than both. Did all the routes while descending from a Gillercombe round one January. Surprisingly no traffic in the logbooks.

 Jon Stewart 07 Feb 2021
In reply to petegunn:

> Bright Beck Crag behind Pavey

Sounds great. Young Warburton (who you probably know?) recommended it too, looks like a little Black Crag Wrynose, just a bit of a trek for wee routes.

 Jon Stewart 07 Feb 2021
In reply to StevieH:

> Went up to Shelter crags that last hot summer! Routes had no chalk on them but were clean and rough.

Good - once you've done a lot of the Lakes classics, places like that can be quite magical on the right day (or a grotty nightmare on the wrong one). More of a mountain day doing some nice routes than a mission to tick some classic route or other.

 Jon Stewart 07 Feb 2021
In reply to C Witter:

A couple of E1s I've got lodged in my head to check out, on weird crags:

Walk Under Ladders (E1 5b)

Red Dwarf (E1 5b)

I do have a suspicion that the amount of faff getting to and finding these esoteric "gems" might not entirely pay off...

 Mark Eddy 07 Feb 2021
In reply to C Witter:

Went to Buckbarrow in a Landrover so the parking was easy. But the approach slopes were a whole new level, oh so steep! Worth it though, really nice crag

1
 Rick Graham 07 Feb 2021
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> A couple of E1s I've got lodged in my head to check out, on weird crags:

> I do have a suspicion that the amount of faff getting to and finding these esoteric "gems" might not entirely pay off...

Both routes got recent logs on here , so hardly a gamble. The real wierd or exotic are routes without any recent ascents, the trick is having a plan B , so any day is not wasted.

The walk in to sandbed ghyll is possibly the steepest in the lakes. Approaching nab crag from the bottom could be a nightmare, best walk up the ridge and scramble down or ab in.

Should have posted on the classic route descriptions thread, mark of zorro " worth the walk", it is.

 Dave Ferguson 07 Feb 2021
In reply to C Witter:

the cleaner routes up at Boat How are very good, 2 hour approach from honister though, I also thought City of Love and Ashes on Lining Crag was also well worth the walk. 

OP C Witter 07 Feb 2021
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> I haven't done them yet, but I've been intending to do the E1s on Crinkle Crags (shelter and terrace crags). Long walk up to slightly scrappy crags I guess, but I like that kind of thing. 

Yes - I've had the same thought! Pleasure Zone (E1 5b) and Showtime (E1 5b) are on my list. These crags with a similar character also look great:

Round How
Raven Crag (Highstile)
Cove Crag

OP C Witter 07 Feb 2021
In reply to Dave Ferguson:

> the cleaner routes up at Boat How are very good, 2 hour approach from honister though, I also thought City of Love and Ashes on Lining Crag was also well worth the walk. 

That's good to know, thanks. One of the HSs at Lining Crag is on Roger Wilko's list and I spotted City of Love and Ashes and wondered if it was any good.

OP C Witter 07 Feb 2021
In reply to petegunn:

> Not the longest of routes but the quality is superb with rough and pocketed rock - think Golden Slipper top pitch.

> Bright Beck Crag behind Pavey

Thanks for the recommendations. This one looks good! I've seen it in the guide but not been yet. The delight of Golden Slipper's rock lingers on in the mind, so that's quite a recommendation!

 Rick Graham 07 Feb 2021
In reply to Dave Ferguson:

> the cleaner routes up at Boat How are very good, 2 hour approach from honister though, I also thought City of Love and Ashes on Lining Crag was also well worth the walk. 

Boat how is at least twice as good as lining crag .

Even the dirty routes at Boat were good, especially the Paul Ross ones on the left. Climbed them on sight , just more effort required.

With the abseil station now set up, cleaning your next route of the day should not be an issue. More a public service.

 BTphonehome 07 Feb 2021
In reply to C Witter:

The three routes we did on Shelter Crags a few years ago were all worth the walk in:

Pleasure Zone (E1 5b)

Cloud Walker (E1 5b)

Showtime (E1 5b)

Dirty in places but decent routes. Definitely keen to head back up and do Panjandrum, etc.

Red Groove (E1 5b) on Pavey is worthwhile if you've done the usual suspects. Shame about the approach pitch of Hobson's Choice which was absolutely soaking when we did it!

Sword of Damocles (E1 5b) is a brilliant pitch but takes ages to dry out. 

Woolly Jumper (E1 5b) is two good pitches on amazing rock which seems to be much more frequently logged than it used to be. An excellent route. 

I haven't done Zoar (E1 5b) on Castle Crag in Borrowdale but believe its excellent. The HVS's there are good value adventures.

Over in Wasdale Imagine (E1 5b) and The Mysteron (HVS 5b) aren't exactly 'neglected' but don't see loads of traffic.

The routes linked by petegunn at Longsleddale are all great.

Bring on summer when we're hopefully out of this purgatory and the crags are dry!

 LakesWinter 07 Feb 2021
In reply to petegunn:

Bright beck crag was pretty dirty last july so take some brushes but the rock was very good under the filth

Post edited at 19:18
 spenser 07 Feb 2021
In reply to Jon Stewart:

Fair enough, I'd never heard of it and most people I've mentioned it to haven't either. I reckon that is one of the 10 best pitches I have done anywhere though! Also, C Witter hasn't logged it so he should probably go and do it!

 D.botts87 07 Feb 2021
In reply to C Witter:

Ken's Wall (VS 4c)

Kentmere Slab (VD)

Last year really enjoyed these routes when we visited Calf Howe Crag. Ken's wall had some really nice moves on it and the slab has holds somewhere hidden under the blanket of moss. 

OP C Witter 08 Feb 2021
In reply to BTphonehome:

Thanks for the great suggestions. It sounds like Shelter Crag needs a visit this summer. I'm quite keen to take a look at Buckbarrow in Wasdale, too.

I've had Woolly Jumper on my 'to do' list for a while, though I understand it's bold and spooky for the grade. It's often been excitedly recounted to me as a real classic. I wonder about the other routes on Bowfell, beyond BB and WJ - whether they get many/any ascents. Less than 50 ticks on the logbooks for most and less than 20 for many, but some of them are Dolphin routes.

 joe.91 08 Feb 2021
In reply to C Witter:

I've been lucky enough to climb up at Shelter Crags, Nab Crag and Buckbarrow and climbed all of the routes mentioned. They're all really good quality and definitely worth the visit!

A few places I have on my list which are slightly off the track to go this year are:

  • Iron Crag (went last year but the left hand side of the crag was rather dirty, going back with a brush!)
  • Terrace Crag in Langdale
  • Another vote for Bright Beck
  • Sandbed Ghyll
  • Boat How
  • Blind Tarn Crag
  • Great How in Coniston
OP C Witter 08 Feb 2021
In reply to joe.91:

Good suggestions. I've got Granolithic Groove, Solidarity and Copper Dragon on my To Do list.

In reply to C Witter:

There are many superb routes in the area without stars.

White Buttress, Walla Crag.

Ferrous Buttress, Middle Iron Crag, a real adventure.

Messalina and Medea, Miners Crag.

Re Woden’s Face – during lockdown made five visits.

Yew Crag, Hearth etc excellent.

Sergeant Crag Gully well worthwhile as is,

Newlands Gully, Miners Crag, first recorded route in Newlands, OK in wet.

Rope Walk, Miners Crag.

Dalehead Pillar, Dalehead Crag, drought conditions.

Red Dwarf, Nab Crag, a real adventure, no soft touch.

Sandbed getting overgrown.

Raven Crag, High Stile and,

Lining Crag, various routes, both crags good.

Green Crag (drought weather), fantastic lines.

Red Groove, Pavey great classic route, not hard, was 5a.

Zoar, Castle Crag has a good direct start.

Irrawaddy always worthwhile.

Supercrack [sic], Garotte Buttress, Watendlath, drought conditions.

Independence Day, Bull Crag, have a project to re-clean that, excellent route. Not even in guide.

 Baron Weasel 08 Feb 2021
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> Wicked! Needs a dry spell I guess and will probably be filthy...but you can say that about most of the Lakes. 

I've got plenty of static rope if we need to do some gardening  

 Jon Stewart 08 Feb 2021
In reply to Baron Weasel:

Would you be up for a mission on  Great End Crag? Would need a drought. I reckon Banzai Pipeline (E1 5b) could be cleaned on lead, not sure how to go about No Holds Barred (E2 5b). Would be a memorable day out I reckon.

Could even accidentally drop a cigarette end if it's dry enough... 

1
 LakesWinter 08 Feb 2021
In reply to Jon Stewart:

Banzai was ok in september 2019 but a bit mucky at the middle and end of pitch 1. Great end corner would need quitea lot of work but it looked fantastic and somekne should definitely clean it properly

 joe.91 08 Feb 2021
In reply to Jon Stewart:

Also climbed Banzai in 2019 and was good conditions. Also done Zoar at Castle, an E3 there that looked good but can't remember the name.

Anybody checked out Bathsheba (E1 5c)?

 Jon Stewart 08 Feb 2021
In reply to joe.91:

> Also climbed Banzai in 2019 and was good conditions. Also done Zoar at Castle, an E3 there that looked good but can't remember the name.

> Anybody checked out Bathsheba (E1 5c)?

Interesting! Great thread this. 

 joe.91 08 Feb 2021
In reply to C Witter:

A few more that come to mind:

  • Close to the Wind, Kern Knotts
  • Face the Music, Yew Crag
  • Nebuchanezzar's Dream and Psycho, High Crag (I feel a very underrated crag and probably one of the best in the Lakes, full of great long 435m+ routes at HVS-E3)

  • Amina at Lightning Crag

 Jon Stewart 08 Feb 2021
In reply to joe.91:

I like high crag, but I think you're overcooking the length of the routes a bit 😉

 joe.91 08 Feb 2021
In reply to Jon Stewart:

Ha I meant 35! But if you count the distance from the CP...

 Greenbanks 08 Feb 2021
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> Interesting! Great thread this<

All goes to show...The Lakes as a lot more character than North Wales

(coat....running for the hills already)

 OliverRoss 08 Feb 2021
In reply to C Witter:

Summit Route (MS) Is really a good adventure. Only gets a star in the guide, but excellent climbing and scenery for the grade. You climb next to a waterfall for a lot of it. There is a bit of walking through bilberry bushes at times to get to the next bit of rock. But it's all part of the fun. 

OP C Witter 08 Feb 2021
In reply to joe.91:

> A few more that come to mind:

> Close to the Wind, Kern Knotts
> Nebuchanezzar's Dream and Psycho, High Crag (I feel a very underrated crag and probably one of the best in the Lakes, full of great long 435m+ routes at HVS-E3)

> Amina at Lightning Crag

Yes, High Crag is fantastic - strong lines, good rock, stunning location. I think its aspect is the only thing that leads to it being underrated, as you need a good dry spell. And possibly the steep approach! Round the corner, nowt but Eagle Front seems to get climbed frequently on Eagle Crag (Buttermere), nevermind Sheepbone Buttress. But, I have the impression that routes like Fifth Avenue (VS 4c) and Carnival (E1 5b) are perhaps a bit... fraught. The last three people to attempt Easter Buttress bailed off it - despite it getting two stars!

RE: Kern Knotts area - I thought  Piers Gill Crag and Round How look very worthwhile. 
RE: Pike O'Blisco, I'm also quite interested in Little Stand Crags, as the two photos on UKC make it look appealing.

Post edited at 13:35
OP C Witter 08 Feb 2021
In reply to OliverRoss:

> Summit Route (MS) Is really a good adventure. Only gets a star in the guide, but excellent climbing and scenery for the grade. You climb next to a waterfall for a lot of it. There is a bit of walking through bilberry bushes at times to get to the next bit of rock. But it's all part of the fun. 


Looks like a very nice alternative to Corvus - which sometimes seems to be the only route getting climbed on the crag!

 neilh 08 Feb 2021
In reply to C Witter:

This is good value for E2

https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/honister_crag-376/the_comet-5249#o...

I think it use to get 3 sat in the older guide books. Cracking pitch.

 Greenbanks 08 Feb 2021
In reply to C Witter:

Up the thread Sword of Damocles (Cambridge Crag) gets a mention. Very underrated - its a smashing adventure route, out f the way of crowds

 joe.91 08 Feb 2021
In reply to C Witter:

I have tried Carnival but bailed off due to rain after the crux pitch! P1 is a heather bash, P2 was dirty to start but cleaner towards the top. Rest looked clean but it was chucking down when we decided to run away...

 sea anenome 08 Feb 2021
In reply to C Witter:

I think someone mentioned Buckbarrow, Wasdale: Needless Eliminate (E1 5b) is excellent.

Bathsheba: top pitch very good with gear at the crux. Harlot on the same crag also good (comments about it being overgrown did not tally with what we found...).

Substitute and Hearth Direct both excellent.

Sword of Damocles: climbed in drought conditions last summer but all the moss was still soggy making it a memorable outing! Did Woolly Jumper on the same day - immaculate rock.

Zoar - excellent

A vote for Hiatus (VS 4b) on Gimmer (but only in drought conditions!)

Aquarius (HVS 5a) on Pavey (ditto: note the name...)

I really enjoyed Black Crag Eliminate (E1 5b), but might be in a minority. There is a loose block on the top pitch, but it can be negotiated, as can the ivy... 

Post edited at 16:06
 Mark Eddy 08 Feb 2021
In reply to C Witter:

The Cold Pike crags are well worth a visit. Well spread out set of buttresses, super grippy rock and great views

 Jon Stewart 08 Feb 2021
In reply to Mark Eddy:

> The Cold Pike crags are well worth a visit. Well spread out set of buttresses, super grippy rock and great views

Fantastic highballs, not sure I'd take a rack up there though. As you say, best rock ever, crimpy wall heaven. 

 Greenbanks 08 Feb 2021
In reply to Greenbanks:

Still in Langdale I recall a pleasant stroll up bilberry ledges to the main pitch of Roundabout Direct (HVS, 5a). A sunny evening in May, Johnny in tow and magic all around. Wonderful - yet such a minor footnote in the Pavey list of must-do contenders 

 Baron Weasel 08 Feb 2021
In reply to Jon Stewart:

Yes 

 overdrawnboy 08 Feb 2021
In reply to C Witter:

Deimos (E3 5c)done the original way is one of the best E2 routes in the Lakes. Four good pitches at the grade and finishes right on top of the crag with no rambling up heather to finish.

 Dave Garnett 09 Feb 2021
In reply to C Witter:

> Has anyone got any other "neglected" or "underrated" climbs to recommend, preferably below E2? Or... even, underrated crags?

Underrated? In the Lakes?!

OP C Witter 09 Feb 2021
In reply to Dave Garnett:

> Underrated? In the Lakes?!


Well, I presume the climbs are underrated... otherwise, why would people waste their time on those awful dank little grit problems?

(.....! Put down those pitch forks! It was a... joke! Honest!)

 Dave Garnett 09 Feb 2021
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> Would you be up for a mission on  Great End Crag? Would need a drought. I reckon Banzai Pipeline (E1 5b) could be cleaned on lead, not sure how to go about No Holds Barred (E2 5b). Would be a memorable day out I reckon.

My memory of No Holds Barred was that it sort of fizzled out into vegetation and we ended up abbing off a highly dubious sapling.

 Dave Garnett 09 Feb 2021
In reply to C Witter:

> Well, I presume the climbs are underrated... otherwise, why would people waste their time on those awful dank little grit problems?

As opposed to walking across miles of bog to another moss covered slab or scruffy dripping corner?

I kidding too but routes in the lakes are rarely undersold!

 charliesdad 09 Feb 2021
In reply to C Witter:

Surely all the climbs in Cumbria are under-rated!

Why climb anywhere else....?

OP C Witter 09 Feb 2021
In reply to C Witter:

Here: https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/set.php?id=4729

Monster 80-climb ticklist based on the thread Ta!

OP C Witter 09 Feb 2021
In reply to Dave Garnett:

> As opposed to walking across miles of bog to another moss covered slab or scruffy dripping corner?

Ooo! That sounds like a great day - which route was that?

 Dave Garnett 09 Feb 2021
In reply to C Witter:

The aforementioned Great End Crag would be as good as anywhere!

 Greenbanks 09 Feb 2021
In reply to C Witter:

Top effort & a fabulous list. One of the better 'lockdown threads'.

Some sifting might be needed though because of interpretations of what constitutes 'underrated' and 'neglected' - in the case of the latter, the tick-spread is from 0-91, whilst 12 routes get the full 3-stars and 38 get 2-stars.

Maybe to qualify there should be twin criteria of less than 20 ticks combined with just 1 star...in which case just 19 climbs would remain.

 Derek Furze 09 Feb 2021
In reply to C Witter:

Can I suggest the routes on Thrang Crag on the eastern side of Ullswater.  A bit of a trek around the roads to get there, but I enjoyed a day doing routes there once - Jude the Obscure (E1 5b) perhaps says it all, but quite a few of the routes were decent (Far from the Madding Crowd (E2 5b) and in a nice setting.

 Derek Furze 09 Feb 2021
In reply to Derek Furze:

I see Autopsy is on the list, so what about Where Eagle's Dare (E2 5c) and perhaps The Squawk (E2 5b) to make the walk worthwhile.  Of course, there is always Post Mortem (E3 5c), but I think it is outside of the grade spread here

OP C Witter 09 Feb 2021
In reply to Greenbanks:

> Top effort & a fabulous list. One of the better 'lockdown threads'.

> Some sifting might be needed though because of interpretations of what constitutes 'underrated' and 'neglected' - in the case of the latter, the tick-spread is from 0-91, whilst 12 routes get the full 3-stars and 38 get 2-stars.

> Maybe to qualify there should be twin criteria of less than 20 ticks combined with just 1 star...in which case just 19 climbs would remain.


Good points. 50 to 90-odd ticks should be seen in the context of a number of routes in the Lakes having well over 1000 (Middlefell Buttress has 3000) and others almost 6000 logs (ahem Little Chamonix (VD) cough, cough). But, I agree, it's not a very clear rationale and mixes underrated and neglected... But, I'm still not going to recategorise them into two lists! 😉 Or at least... it can wait until the next lockdown!

 Derek Furze 09 Feb 2021
In reply to C Witter:

Despite Uni in Lancaster during the Lakeland boom and subsequently living in the Lakes for three years, there are crags on here I've never heard a thing about.  Can't wait to get on this ticklist!  A great mixture and clearly contains some brilliant routes.

 Dave Ferguson 09 Feb 2021
In reply to C Witter:

good work, I've done 33 so far so that gives a good number to go at when we can get out.

 Rick Graham 09 Feb 2021
In reply to Dave Ferguson:

Good list. Done  69 .

Got loads on my hit list so the last 11 may have to wait a bit.

 Rick Graham 09 Feb 2021
In reply to C Witter:

> Monster 80-climb ticklist based on the thread Ta!

You missed Mark of Zorro , the other routes on that buttress are quite good as well.

 Jon Stewart 09 Feb 2021
In reply to Dave Garnett:

> My memory of No Holds Barred was that it sort of fizzled out into vegetation and we ended up abbing off a highly dubious sapling.

Thanks for the warning. I had heard someone say they had a good time on it. They were probably bullshittting/senile.

1
 Rick Graham 09 Feb 2021
In reply to Jon Stewart:

It was all right in the 70's.

 Jon Stewart 09 Feb 2021
In reply to Rick Graham:

People thought Jimmy Saville was alright in the 70s.

1
 Derek Furze 09 Feb 2021
In reply to Jon Stewart:

I did it in 1993 - it was fine then though the crag wasn't seeing a lot of traffic.  I enjoyed it - I was prompted to do it by my second as it was one of his favourite routes.  Does this qualify me as senile?

 Jon Stewart 09 Feb 2021
In reply to Derek Furze:

> Does this qualify me as senile?

I'll have to check it out and find out

1
 Dave Ferguson 09 Feb 2021
In reply to Jon Stewart:

did it in 2014, it was filthy but snuff dry so just brushed off the moss as I went, lots of gear and it wanders a bit but very sustained and absorbing, recommended. We found an ab point at the top so take some tat.

 Jon Stewart 09 Feb 2021
In reply to C Witter:

I don't know any of the crags at all, but one day I'd love to climb in Mirk Cove above Ennerdale/round the back of Pillar. One for a summer bivvy. Just mentioning it in case anyone has actually been there?

Also, this has just reminded me of my intention to potter up Steeple (some vdiff route on this really beautiful shapely peak/buttress) on my way round Mosedale, linking together scrambles and easy routes, including something nice on Pillar. Mental note to do this on the first proper summer day I've got to myself. Roll on summer!

1
OP C Witter 10 Feb 2021
In reply to Rick Graham:

69?! That's good going. You've probably got 70/85 now, as I've just added Mark of Zorro

OP C Witter 10 Feb 2021
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> I don't know any of the crags at all, but one day I'd love to climb in Mirk Cove above Ennerdale/round the back of Pillar. One for a summer bivvy. Just mentioning it in case anyone has actually been there?

> Also, this has just reminded me of my intention to potter up Steeple (some vdiff route on this really beautiful shapely peak/buttress) on my way round Mosedale, linking together scrambles and easy routes, including something nice on Pillar. Mental note to do this on the first proper summer day I've got to myself. Roll on summer!


Yeh, me too! I've recently added Cove Crag to the UKC database, and I feel that a couple of summer days camping around there, climbing on Cove Crag, Black Crag, Steeple and Pillar would be delightful. Hopefully it'll be doable this year... ...hopefully!

OP C Witter 10 Feb 2021
In reply to Dave Ferguson:

I've got 1/85 - which is a good place to be on the list, I figure: plenty left to do!

 Dave Cundy 10 Feb 2021
In reply to Greenbanks:

Tony, your mention of 'Johnny in tow' made me think of Johnny Lockley.  As a member of the FMC  we seemed to live in The Rule, back in the eighties and nineties.  As did your good self.

Whatever became of John?  I heard he was back on the 'slippery slope'?

C Witter, sorry about a bit of deviation there...

 cathsullivan 10 Feb 2021
In reply to Jon Stewart:

...

> Also, this has just reminded me of my intention to potter up Steeple (some vdiff route on this really beautiful shapely peak/buttress)...

That vdiff on Steeple is a great route.  I've just looked at the sparse quantity of UKC comments and they don't tally with my recollection at all ... but I remember really enjoying it.  I suspect I might've been disappointed if I'd walked up just for that route, but we camped and went to Pillar,  Black Crag Ennerdale and Steeple over a few days.

 tmawer 10 Feb 2021
In reply to Jon Stewart:

It was a great climb when it was clean but the last time I climbed it it was filthy and not to be recommended.

 Rick Graham 10 Feb 2021
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> People thought Jimmy Saville was alright in the 70s.

Nah.

Always thought JS was suspect.

Any way the 70s was good for me .

Progressed to E4 and Scottish V.

Climbed Shibboleth + Carnivore twice, point five and zero.

Big 3 plus Phobos on Dove.

Mont blanc and the dru twice each.

Met my future wife, forty years coming up next weekend.

What's not to like ?

Post edited at 13:07
 BTphonehome 10 Feb 2021
In reply to C Witter:

> Thanks for the great suggestions. It sounds like Shelter Crag needs a visit this summer. I'm quite keen to take a look at Buckbarrow in Wasdale, too.

> I've had Woolly Jumper on my 'to do' list for a while, though I understand it's bold and spooky for the grade. It's often been excitedly recounted to me as a real classic. I wonder about the other routes on Bowfell, beyond BB and WJ - whether they get many/any ascents. Less than 50 ticks on the logbooks for most and less than 20 for many, but some of them are Dolphin routes.

Cheers for putting the list together - a welcome distraction from any work productivity this week!

If you have a look through the logs for Woolly Jumper it will confirm the bold nature of the route - thankfully it feels relatively secure as the rock up there is like climbing on velcro. I too am curious about the other routes up there namely, Right Wall Eliminate (E1 5b) and Right-hand Wall (VS 4c). I have a vague memory of abbing down them form the top of Woolly Jumper so maybe that's why I haven't rushed back up for them!

Might be worth adding Panjandrum (E1 5b) and Moonstruck (E1 5b) to complete the Shelter Crag starred routes?

Also a couple that came to mind up on Kern Knotts with < 30 logged ascents on UKC: The Kraken (E1 5b) and West Buttress Eliminate Superdirect (E1 5b) which I thought were worthwhile and don't see anywhere near the traffic of those round the corner.

Thanks again for the ticklist.

Post edited at 17:35
 StevieH 10 Feb 2021
In reply to C Witter:

Went upto Raven crag Highstile last year. Where we got unbelievably sunburnt!
I will definitely be back for some more routes. Emporer E1 5b was mega. There’s a big green snot of moss when you look up from the bottom. But you can easily finish on the right wall.

 Rog Wilko 10 Feb 2021
In reply to C Witter:

It's interesting (to me, anyway) how some of the routes on my Gems list have gained a lot of logged ascents on UKC, notably Harristickorner/Spillikin Ridge (VD) and The Central Route (VS 4c) while some, including some easily accessible routes, have remained determinedly in the low single figures. The most notable of the latter is one of the best routes on the list (IMHO), Cheekwooly (S), and indeed one of the best 3 or 4 routes of the grade that I've ever done. There are only two recorded ascents, mine and my partner on the day. Can't get much more neglected than that.  It is better than its neighbouring but highly popular route Rib and Slab Climb (HS 4b) (3* and over 200 logged ascents), and much better than another nearby route The Appian Way (HS 4b) (3* and 40 odd ascents).  But Pillar is rather a crag for the connoisseur these days.

 Martin Bennett 10 Feb 2021
In reply to Jon Stewart:

Very steep flog up to Walk Under Ladders and after all we'd heard about it's 3* quality and on a very sweaty day we renamed it Walk Under-whelmed. 

Post edited at 21:10
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 petegunn 10 Feb 2021
In reply to Martin Bennett:

I do like the way as soon as you step onto the rock you feel super exposed. Steepest grass ascent to a route in the lakes? 

 shantaram 10 Feb 2021
In reply to Jon Stewart: Great End crag is well worth a visit and I’m always surprised it isn’t more popular. Did No Holds Barred in 2010. Good quality and absorbing line that was clean at the time. It wanders a little, but that is the only negative. I’ve done Banzai Pipeline a few times, the last in 2012. I personally think it’s the best E1 in Borrowdale and it was always clean when I did it. Great End Corner was given a good clean around 2008/9 I think and it was then that it went from HVS to (bold) E1 when a crucial small tree was removed. A good climb, but 2 star as opposed to it’s 3 star neighbours. 

 petegunn 10 Feb 2021
In reply to StevieH:

We linked that into the fine jamming cack on the left, whilst Henry Iddon was getting some shots using the 100+yr old Instanto Plate camera which was used by the Abraham brothers. Need to go back and do that arete!

 shantaram 10 Feb 2021
In reply to C Witter: 

https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/heron_crag_borrowdale-758

Upper Heron Crag in Langstrath is worth checking out. Nice single pitch routes in the E1-E3 grade range, clean bubbly rock and catches the afternoon and the last of the evening sun. The heathery top outs can be a  bit of a pain though. 

 Martin Bennett 10 Feb 2021
In reply to sea anenome:

Yes Hiatus, and the other routes/variations on a theme on that part of the crag: Carpetbagger (VS 4b)Grooves Superdirect (HVS 5b)Inertia (HVS) .Grand Finale (E1 5b) are all well worthwhile and even these days I should think not busy.

Your other suggestion Aquarius (HVS 5a) I did more recently and it sticks in my memory. It has a really good top pitch but I'd miss out the first - it might have been just me missing something but I could find nothing to protect an awkward thin step right onto the belay ledge and juddered across contemplating an 70 foot lob to the deck. 

Post edited at 21:29
 Martin Bennett 10 Feb 2021
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> I don't know any of the crags at all, but one day I'd love to climb in Mirk Cove above Ennerdale/round the back of Pillar. One for a summer bivvy. Just mentioning it in case anyone has actually been there?

Me, I've been. Once. To Haskett Buttress and it's a very long way. We did The Dolorous Stroke (E1 5b) , which is good, after running away from another route unsure if we were really on it and not finding enough gear. I can't recall which it was now but for sure it qualifies for the three letter acronym TDS! Just looked in the logbooks here and our is the only entry for the whole crag.

 Martin Bennett 10 Feb 2021
In reply to BTphonehome:

> If you have a look through the logs for Woolly Jumper it will confirm the bold nature of the route - thankfully it feels relatively secure as the rock up there is like climbing on velcro. I too am curious about the other routes up there namely, Right Wall Eliminate (E1 5b) and Right-hand Wall (VS 4c). I have a vague memory of abbing down them form the top of Woolly Jumper so maybe that's why I haven't rushed back up for them!

> Might be worth adding Panjandrum (E1 5b) and Moonstruck (E1 5b) to complete the Shelter Crag starred routes?

We found Right Wall Eliminate good but I note others, doing it more recently, have said it's getting veggie. Other worthwhile routes there are Central Route and A Grand Day Out but perhaps don't bother with Sinister Slabs.  BB Eliminate goes without saying though I found the start hard,

I second yours and others comments about Shelter Crag tho haven't been for nigh on 20 years so no knowledge of current state. Done 6 routes there and all well worth the walk.

Post edited at 22:04
 Martin Bennett 10 Feb 2021
In reply to Rick Graham:

> It was all right in the 70's.

80s I think you mean Rick? 70s when "the Earth moved", or stripped, rather, and the early routes got done, but say 82/83 (?) before No Holds Barred (E2 5b) and Exclusion Zone (E2 5c) appeared? I know we did 'em soon after and that was '84 and what a brilliant day it was.

Unless you'd done a sneaky FA and said nowt - I wouldn't put it past you!

Post edited at 22:42
In reply to Dave Cundy:

> Whatever became of John?  I heard he was back on the 'slippery slope'?

John was fine last time I visited the Rule. I spent a lot of time there too in the 80s with Greenbank RIP, Bonners and a few others. Can vouch for the fact that John was OK in between all this sh!t last summer during visits to Ambleside fish and chips, the Rule and a film at the cinema.

DC

 Greenbanks 12 Feb 2021
In reply to Dave Cumberland:

Yes. I rubbed shoulders with both in The Rule in the late '70s. Of A.H., this compendium is an antidote to lockdown-boredom:

https://www.theguardian.com/profile/tony-greenbank


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