UKC

The grade conversion shows safe e4 possibly equalling 7a. I take it 7a would be the grade the climb felt like including placing gear or is it 7a+ with gear?

Anyone one of any trad routes that are 7a?

I ask because I've never onsighted 7a & I don't ever want to get on a 7a trad route!!!

In reply to lps: an e4 is most definately not 7a it's not any of the frech grades - they are for sport routes.

In reply to higherclimbingwales: Aye but you can give the moves (and only the moves) an equatable French grade. My one and only E4 was somewhere in the region of pumpy F6b+/c. Alright protection, too.

In reply to lps: There aren't that many e5s that would get a 7a grade

In reply to lps:

Highway one (at Portishead) is dead on 7a and gets E4 in all the guidebooks. (It is mostly bolted apart from the start so still has a trad feel)

In reply to lps: Bitterfingers at Stoney is a really safe E4, which doesn't feel far off 7a

In reply to higherclimbingwales:

Unless you happen to be a French climber (or possibly a Spanish/Italian/Swiss/etc one) who has just done a new route - in the Dolomites, maybe, or the Pyrenees - which didn't involve bolts; and as far as you're concerned what we refer to here in Britain as French grades or sport grades are simply just "grades"!

In reply to BeccaSnowden:

Has it got harder? It was 6c+ in the 1992 and 2004 guides, and the same in UKC's database. (I don't have either of the recent South West selected guides, which may, of course, provide an answer!) I've generally thought that, unless it's particularly strenuous (on the fingers/arms rather than the feet), which I don't think Highway One is, F7a normally involves a bit of English 6b - which, again, I don't think H1 does; indeed, F6c+ occasionally seems to involve moves that would get 6b were they on a trad route.

I could, of course, be spouting a load of rubbish; it's happened before...!

In reply to Ian Parsons:

Ah you're right, it's just given E4 6a in the new south west climbs and E4 6a 6c+ in the Avon CC guide.

You'd also be right in saying that Highway One isn't strenuous - it's a slab climb! That doesn't mean that it can't be hard though!

I was going on my own experience and the voting on here by giving it E4 and 7a.
Perhaps we're all just rubbish at slab climbing... (too many climbing walls and all that)

In reply to BeccaSnowden: I did Highway 1 many years ago and before the top groove was bolted. It felt quite bold back then although the crux moves were protected by some seriously dodgy looking bolts. I thought that it deserved E4 6a. The 6a move being the short traverse, followed by sustained 5c climbing in the groove. Bolted I would expect it to be no more than F6c.

John

In reply to lps:

Cabbage Crack, Stoney felt like 7a to me on top-rope. About a zillion times harder than Wee Doris, which also gets E4 (but 5c), yet feels more like 6b+ (ok maybe a zillion is a bit much). There's not much difference between the routes (gear, length, style) apart from the marked disparity of difficulty. Opposite ends of the E4 grade I guess, must stretch a long way!

In reply to higherclimbingwales:

Best asked as, which trad routes on a top rope feel like a 7a on a top rope?

lord of the flies ?

In reply to Owen W-G:


cockblock

In reply to Rory Shaw:

I thought Cockblock was given E5?

I think I'd give Bitterfingers hard F6c+, Cabbage Crack and whatever the E4 next to it is called are harder.

Some Lakes ones:

Fine Time - really only a short hard section but it's a real stopper.
Lost Horizons - very sustained until you pull back right in to the upper groove.
Burning Bridges - actually maybe F7a+, it's harder than something like Balas at Kilnsey but long legs makes a difference.

Some of the other "traditional" Lakes E4s have been upgraded to E5 - SOS, Gates of Delerium, etc.

Overall I'd say E4 sits on the F6c+/7a boundary, maybe two thirds of the grade band is F6c+ with just the harder end of the grade being F7a.

ALC