UKC

i'm aware that in northumberland crags the guidebooks ignore the first few meters of the climb.

I'm just wondering what people think the worst climbs are in terms of the start being out of proportion with the grade (i'm aware this is every northumberland climb but which are the worst offenders).

Worst i've seen is flake wall at bowden doors, a diff with a 5a start.

In reply to James90: Verandah Buttress at Stanage is the well known one with a 5b start (apparently - I've not got around to doing it).
From personal experience, I'd say that many of the easier routes at Birchen have quite hard, bouldery/undercut starts (Hollybush Gully, Trafalgar Wall, Emma's Temptation, etc.)

In reply to James90:

I prescribe a heavy dose of MTFU.

In reply to DaveHK:

Don't get me wrong i enjoy them! as their tricky with no (or little)risk, but their are some very odd climbs out their because of it.

In reply to James90:

I would vote for Fingerwrecker in the Pass of Ballater. One move at the very start, that lives up to the name, very hard to grade as its mostly to do with pain tolerance.

In reply to James90:
You have to mention Callerhues in this thread. How about Cold Start at VS 6a? And the 6a part is a bit Northumbrian. I have no idea how to do it and I've never seen anyone succeed.

In reply to James90:

I think the start of Wombat at the Roaches goes unmentioned in the guide I have, yet is harder than the roof.

In reply to kyaizawa:

Yeah, but the grade is adjusted for that.


Yeah.

In reply to James90:

Blue Light at Attermire used to get VS, which it is if you can do the 6b move to get to the first hold

ALC

In reply to James90:

I reckon Terriers Tooth is a candidate. Given many a VD leader a wobble up to where you can just about get some gear in.

In reply to JDal:

im assuming vs 6a is the guidebook? UKC has regraded in their logbook to e3

In reply to GrahamD:
Terriers Tooth has been regraded to HS for the start up the black vein.

In reply to a lakeland climber:

Same with Monty Python's Flying Circus:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=61928

In reply to James90:

Spat off Tigers Wall?

In reply to Jonny2vests:

I agree. A desperate throw for the break from precarious polished footholds and side pull for me too.

In reply to James90:

Really" 1st I have heard of it.


Chris

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Its been HS for a while I know - but even at that its a bit steadier than you might expect !

In reply to Chris Craggs:

Yes. A h.ard start does affect the grade, just not as much as the same move further up because you can have multiple goes at it

In reply to kyaizawa:

VB is 4c when you know how and should be Severe anyhow by Stanage grades.

In reply to Offwidth:

It is HVDiff 5b in the 'Definitive'.



Chris

In reply to James90:

Are they? I thought they were just badly graded.

Banana Wall for instance gets MVS 4c. The 4c bit is leaving the ground. The MVS is because the rest of it is a solo.

In reply to James90: Yep, in the definitive guidebook.

It gets E3 6b in Rockfax. It's daft really, it's a boulder problem with an easy topout (I assume it's easy, having never reached it!). The adjectival grade is a bit arbitary.

In reply to Toreador:

I had heard so but can't find it officially written (have seen it written in this forum more than once), is it one of those climbing myths that isnt true?. I also noted that their are climbs where climbs have starts that warrent a tech grade but none is given, e.g the diff with the 5a start (the 5a is the concensus on the logbook, not a given grade).

In reply to Jonny2vests:

Similar experience here, maybe I was missing something. I agree with E2 and the roof is no more than 5b, but that move low down felt like tough 5c to me.

In reply to Nick Russell:

Yeah, totally.

In reply to Chris Craggs:

It is HVDiff 5b in the 'Definitive'."

So what? I think its better as a severe, not much difference there and the guidebook team genrally don't change classic grades for the sake of it (a good thng). The easy way of doing it IS 4c and I tried several times over a few years to find it, gave up, and had to be shown. It's also probably most often climbed as a HS 5c (the grade I'd give to the method of crimping the rib).

In reply to James90:

This seems to be the tradition in New Zealand, at least at Froggatt. All the routes tend to have overhanging starts on awkward shallow pockets, which are ignored for grading purposes despite being the crux of the route.

Traditionally, this was especially true at Birchen Edge. The combination of soil erosion and polish led to some shockers; I recall Dane's Delight being particularly sporting at the grade. Much better in recent guides.

In reply to Dave Garnett:

We certainly graded Birchen including the starts. Routes which were boulder problems now have bouldering grades first if highballs or uniquely if not.