UKC

I need help! I completed an event yesterday, my longest so far, but I felt so awful during the second half and afterwards that I couldn't really enjoy the experience.

I use Tailwind and it has really helped in training as I find gels nauseating, but yesterday even that was unpalatable after about 30 miles. I didn't want to eat anything but forced myself to during the event (crisps, peanuts, orange slices, flapjack). Towards the end I couldn't even drink water.

No sign of cramp until just after I finished when my left calf went full-on rigid. At least the pain stopped me feeling so sick for a few minutes!

I was basically a bit of a mess for a good while after (unable to chat with other people at the finish) and it didn't feel safe enough to drive home for about an hour.

I couldn't keep anything down until the next day. In the night, I had some Gaviscon (I wish I'd thought of it earlier!) which at least meant I could sleep.

Annoyingly the first 20 miles went very well and today my body is aching a bit but surprisingly ok, so if I could just sort out the nutrition/nausea i think I could be quite good at these things!

There's plenty of advice on the internet about this, I've followed most of it but still have issues. I thought I'd nailed it with the Tailwind but yesterday proved otherwise.

I didn't think I was pushing hard, just an easy pace. It was very sunny but not hot.

I guess I'm just looking for tips that I might not have thought of as it's really frustrating and preventing me from doing my best (and enjoying the aftermath)!

Thanks for listening.

Watching this, just in case, you never know, the answer may just come along....

I feel your pain and have starved or puked my way around a dozen or more long events. Last years LDWA100 I  managed a last sausage roll at mile 20. Ate nothing for the next 80. Puking with a totally empty stomach is definitely type 2 fun.

Have tried most food....event prep....eating frequency etc to no avail.

Can't offer a solution, but perhaps a strategy.

Do you have the same problem on regular training runs? I'm guessing not*. That would suggest that your body is not adequately prepared for the events you're doing (shuts down the digestive system under the stress of running 20 miles). Do you feel (digestively) OK after a 20 mile training run? A 50 mile training run? If not then a 100 mile event is always going to be a gamble. If you are OK with those then you must be doing something else on the event if you're shutting down at mile 20. Over-excited pacing on 'events' compared to training? Something in pre-race prep? You have to take a pretty analytical approach about what is going on in your body - everyone seems different (in my experience) and just because Solution A worked for someone else doesn't mean it'll work for you. Look at what you did differently around a run that was OK and one that wasn't. The answers in there somewhere.

* ... else you wouldn't have entered the longer events. If you are having problems in sorter training runs, then forget about 100 milers and concentrate on solving the far simpler problem - i.e., something you can test/analyse weekly rather than quarterly.

Found this today: https://planetultramarathon.wordpress.com/2008/04/01/gastro-problems-in-end...

I'm going to try going back to basics and starting clean with just water + waxy maize starch + sodium + potassium mixed up (in the proportions recommended in the article). I'll try taking in half as many calories too as per the article. Then build anything else in from there.

Possibly yesterday I was shoving in calories I couldn't process, too much acidity in the food/drink, and things that are hard to digest at pace.

Good points thanks for that. I have considered training runs too. It's the same issue in all runs where I need to consume calories during the run. It's just not as bad for a marathon distance as it's only just over 20 miles so the effect is less noticeable. 50K is a bit worse, etc.

I've tried changing a few things but as per my other post, I have a new experiment which I should be able to test even on a 20+ miler. I'm more anxious for events than training so there might be something in that which makes it worse too.

The other line of attack is pacing. Can you walk all day? Can you walk briskly all day? Can you jog/shuffle-on-the-flat all day? Can you run on the flat all day? And so on. At what point does your digestion start causing issues? One thing I found when I was doing ultras was that my body (core, stomach) was not used to the incessant bouncing up and down that you get with running (as opposed to shuffling/jogging). Started doing pilates/core exercises and the problem (muscular rather then digestive in my case) went away.

Some really good thinking there. Thanks very much. As you suspected,  rarely if ever get the issue on a training run. Maybe it is just simply pushing too hard too early on an event?

Few years back did the 44mile Brecon Cardiff in some pretty snowy weather,  no problems at all and in for me, a reasonably quick time.

Contrast that with a 32mile coast path ultra, that I have done 4 times now but I am giving a miss this year after being too sick last year. Was still being sick 4hrs after the race. Really slow time too.

I have a horrible feeling it's not the body that's the issue...its the brain!!

Hope that works for you!! 😀

Or the heat? I notice you said one of the events was snowy. I'm worse in the heat/sun, possibly because, whilst I might go at a similar pace, it's harder work. With a heart rate monitor I can see the higher temperature correlates with a higher BPM. The difference between 10°C and 28°C can be up to 5 BPM for me, which is a pretty significant increase in effort.

That, and the increased sweating means additional water/salt loss, which can't help either.

The heat does make it worse for sure but it still happens in the cold and is getting worse as the years pass.

I noted the increased heart rate in the warm, but figured that just advanced the problem,  ie burned energy faster, rather than actually causing it. 

I can definitely walk all day, and for several days in a row. I haven't got much experience of jogging all day but on a trail marathon I did with my wife where I was taking it easy, including eating a bacon roll at halfway (!), I had fewer issues. Still a bit queasy at the end but nowhere near as bad.

I presumed (perhaps wrongly) that you can digest food more easily when expending less effort rather than the jiggling per se? My core is good from other activities, but you have reminded me not to neglect it now I no longer do those!

Some good thoughts above.

I note you mention salt in passing. Do you think you could have been low on electrolytes, either through not enough or too much fluid. I'm a 'salty sweater' and need more than is generally recommended other wise I feel nauseous and can't eat. I make the conscious decision to split hydration, electrolytes and calories out, so I get the balance I need in the really long events. I have no idea how Tailwind is split, but it might be worth experimenting with salt tablets, water and food to see...

Either way I hope you (and Wainers44) get sorted.

Thank you. Yes, I suspect that might be part of the problem. I was very dehydrated afterwards going by the colour of, well, you know...

Also, apart from occasionally quite early on if I'm well hydrated before starting, I never need a wee in longer races whereas others seem to.

So, not too much fluid...I can't seem to get enough, but possibly too low on salt overall. I'd like to go back to basics as per my earlier post and make up my own very neutral sodium/potassium/carb mix to experiment with the salt levels and see if I can't reduce the nausea. Real food has so far not been particularly successful, but that could be because it's already too late and I'm nauseous from dehydration or low sodium by that point. It just seems to sit in my stomach.

Another thing is I've always had a sensitive stomach, so I think antacids may help, or certainly avoiding caffeine and acidic foods or drinks whilst running.

I'll also try not to eat too much just before running and focus on being well hydrated long before I set off. I know someone who also takes a salt tablet 2 hours before which I found interesting.

You ran 80 miles without eating a single thing?! Are you serious? Or exaggerating? 

It does sound like fluids and electrolytes are well worth experimenting with as you plan, as it's very likely you were very dehydrated. If you add in not enough sodium et al then nausea seems odds on in my experience.

I'd second the hydrate the day before and on the morning of, along with a prestart salt tablet and not too much food before. As ever it's all in the balance of fluid vs salt, so enjoy the experimenting and hopefully this will be a start to being able to enjoy long events!

Run, hmmm, no, wasnt running. Stagger....crawl....and be pathetic, thats more like it. 

Still, 80 miles on nowt is really quite something. 

Thank you! I really appreciate the advice and support

And the hilarious thing was that alone,  starving, and probably 60 miles in, I  decided to listen to the audio book of touching the void through the night. The route was  the Dartmoor Way and he fell into the crevasse at around 3 in the morning at Yelverton. I fell into despair at Ivybridge when bacon was offered and I couldn't face it, or anything else come to that!! 🤣

Well, knowing how much of a mess I was in after 50 miles, I can't imagine how awful doing another 50 in that state would have been! I'm in awe of that and I think they're amazing for managing to finish the event like that.

It's a greater achievement in some ways. Just incredible perseverance (or stubbornness). I seriously was wondering if I'd need putting on a drip at one point later in the evening when I still couldn't keep anything down. If you'd asked me if I could've carried on for another 50? Hell no!

It's amazing what the body can take and how your mind can be the weakest part. I'm not saying it's sensible to push past that, nor is it enjoyable during or after (in my case), but it's turned from a horror show to a challenge to now figure out how to sort it out and do it again in a better "style", i.e. to enjoy more of it without feeling as sick next time. Not quite about times or position but about doing a better job of it. Not sure if that makes sense?!

As a rule of thumb yes, digestion is easier at lower efforts. It’s less about “joggling” and more about blood supply - digestion is a pretty blood-heavy activity. If you’re zooming about your blood gets (mainly, ofc) sent first and foremost to the muscles doing work to prevent oven debt. This means it won’t get sent to your intestine, which reduces the rate of uptake from anything in it to your body. Stuff not being absorbed once it’s been broken down is (maybe?) not a good thing - hence feeling sick. 

If you get into oven debt you’re cooked for sure!