UKC

Hello everyone, do we think there are long term health effects of eating sugary gels / chocolate all day (24hour) when ultra running? I am not talking about general diet, but specifically restricted to a few race days per year. Slightly concerned about implications of type2 diabetes for example...

Negligible if at all.

Thanks for your carefully considered response!

If I follow SiS guidelines - 1 per hour - that is a lot of sugar! But, ok you seem confident.

I would suggest that for a 24 hour race you won’t get through 24 gels, I doubt your body will let you and you will be craving savoury. Longest run I have done was 10 hours and probably 75% of the calories I took in were savoury.

Impact of tooth decay would be interesting an all

I think that as you are burning it off as rapidly as you are consuming it then it’s not going to be an issue.  

I guess you won’t be hoping for a selection box or two for Christmas then.

The adverse effects of sugar almost entirely due to persistent elevation in blood glucose: altered neurotransmission, accumulation of advanced glycation endproducts (AGE) and changes to endogenous glucose regulation. I study the effects of AGE and downstream signalling on the musculoskeletal system so know a bit about this. Taking gels while running ultras will not give you any significant hyperglycaemia so I wouldn’t be concerned. I’d take a toothbrush though.

25 years experience as a diabetic, 15 years as a sports nutritionist so yes i am confident, didnt mean to come across as blunt.

Look into fat or duel fuelling if you are that worried.

  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25275931

Sugar isnt my issue. Its puking after about 45miles that's becoming a real bore. Almost always happens now. 

I agree with this in terms of gel numbers. I've done two 24hr runs, I maybe used 10 gels on each and all of them towards the end when my stomach started to reject anything that required any actual digestion.

Try taking rennie- it could be due to lactic acid build up and this has had a positive effect for me after mountain marathons when feeling so unwell and without explanation  someone suggested it and it worked a treat presumably neutralising blood acidity not necessarily stomach complaints. Just a thought- I don't know the chemistry etc.

I'm fairly sure that antacid tablets have little to no effect on blood acidity. Might work well to settle a late race dicky tummy though.

Worth a try so i will give it a go. Have tried almost everything else and the problem seems to be getting worse not better. It could be sugar related in that I bonk and then feel bad, but i have tried loads of variations, sweet and savory makes no difference. 

Ive used it only once but the transition to feeling great was remarkable.

Just done a very cold as fell race. feeling a bit crappy now- would love to have had some to report if it corrected anything and I would have given real time feedback

.

Do you start eating soon enough in an ultra? I don't feel like it in the first few hours but it pays off later.

Please ladies and gentlemen seek some pro advice on this. There’s a lot of research on GI stress responses and you should not be vomiting after an ultra.

That does make it better. Did a very rough 17mile training run around Bosi to St Ives etc last weekend and carried an insulated mug of tinned ravioli and made myself eat it by 12miles in. Was Ok but that only a very short run so didn't really prove anything. Just cant face bars... gels.... bread....

Having a variety of stuff to eat is the key. I've done a lot of ultras up to 40 hr duration and have no fixed eating plan. Just eat plenty, but you never know what you will fancy. Savoury stuff is important, sweet stuff is less appealing after a time, and it makes your mouth feel nasty. A few gels are useful for a quick boost, especially those with caffeine. Crystallised ginger is good mixed with other dried fruit, helps reduce nauseousness. In the last long ultra I did pork scratchings and fig rolls were good. Also had two massive sausage sandwiches with brown sauce. Salt is important, but depends on the temperature and how much you are sweating. 

A tip I heard was this. Every time you have a major thought....good or bad... like ...wow that scenery looks amazing or .... I want to walk...or I'm running well...or etc,etc. Its your body talking to you telling you/reminding you should eat. Big thought eat and every 1/2 hour. I also heard you cant over eat. Don't know the truth of it as I've not done an ultra.

Blimey.....see what you mean.

Don't know if its better or worse but the problem isn't after the race, only during. I have never vomited after, ok I am a bit of a b*gger for fainting after the finish but with a RHR of 40 even at my age i have done that at fairly regular intervals (comedy moments) throughout my life!

The problem with feeling crap and being sick happens between about miles 45 and 60 but if i can get through that bit then i will finish feeling good and usually hungry! 

I have done plenty of ultras - several 50/55 per year and a few 100 / 24hour efforts too. I realise the gut bomb thing is personal, I tend to prefer sugary food to savoury. I find it easier to get down, and can easily get through 20 in a 100 race and 10 in a 50. I also add carbs/salt to my water. Although this is completely opposite to my usual lifestyle, which I would describe as low sugar - I dont generally eat chocolate or fizzy drinks or desert most of the time. Although I am a big fruit fan...

Anyway, some good advice here. And yes I second the 'take a toothbrush' rule. There is nothing that feels better than the smugness of cleaning your teeth at the bag-drop half way through a 100!

There has recently been a large study published which looked into this issue. Done by the Eastman Dental Institute (UCL) with 9 GB teams, England Rugby and Team Sky. Found that poor oral health was prevalent in athletes and was having a significant impact on performance. 

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/cdoe.12392

Hi, can I shamelessly hijack this thread to ask if you have any recommended research to read on AGEs and especially on the downstream msk effects you're studying? I tried emailing you but it won't let me. I've been meaning to learn more about AGEs for, errr, ages as it seems potentially quite important. I was mainly thinking of impacts on health in general but if there are potential consequences for running muscle then I'd like to learn about that too.

I would have thought that the average Xmas dinner and assorted snacks/drinks around it are more unhealthy than what ultra runners consume during a race so I wouldn't worry about the effect of a couple of days a year of unhealthy nutrition on long term health.

As others have said, during anything over 4-5 hours I mostly eat real food as sugar just doesn't work long term. In fact I rarely use gels on ultras and just pack a few to use in emergencies if I'm really bonking. 

I work mainly with ligament although have started to look in to cartilage. While there is lots of background work to be done I'm particularly interested in AGEs as DAMPs in chronic inflammation. I've chosen PMC free articles so yo can read them without institution access. First is more my thing and second was an important piece in the OA jigsaw. I'm not aware of any good, recent reviews so perhaps I should write one.

Damage-associated molecular patterns in the pathogenesis of osteoarthritis: potentially novel therapeutic targets. Rosenberg et al. Mol Cell Biochem. 2017 Oct; 434(1-2): 171–179.

Inflammatory markers associated with osteoarthritis after destabilization surgery in young mice with and without Receptor for Advanced Glycation End-products (RAGE) Larkin et al Front Physiol. 2013 May 28;4:121

Excellent thanks very much! I’m about to get on (yet another) flight so will download myself some reading. And you should definitely write that review!

Tried Pizza? For me it's like a super food. I get really bad toilet issues if I take energy gels for more than 8 hours so stick to solids and use gels for the last push.