UKC

Hi, 

Looking to PM with someone who has generic knowledge on resort operations, particularly on costs and liabilities for running a ski resort. 

I'm looking into putting together a bid for a community owned ski resort, but it's a business I have no direct experience of, hence looking for some basic info to get a better understanding of how the industry works.

Thanks 

Neal 

I know a chap who is (perhaps) chairman of the Weardale ski club, if that is the sort of thing you have in mind, as opposed to a big operation, send me a few details of your questions and I’ll see if he minds being in touch.

Thanks for your reply, but I'm thinking small resort in the alps. 

Do you have a particular place in mind?

I used to live in La Jarjatte which is a small, council-run set of lifts in the Drôme, southern French Alps. From what I remember they regularly lost around €200,000 per annum according to their annual reports. To paraphrase I think Richard Branson, the best way to become a millionaire is to start as a billionaire and buy a ski resort.

My local lifts are now a substantially bigger operation, Villard-Corrençon, where Tony Parker (former NBA player) recently bought a big stake with the view to turning it into a 365-day per year operation which I think is essential now with the way winters are going.

Insurance must be a bigger factor in the alps. Weardale ski club had a training exercise at the weekend with the local mrt, for two skiers colliding mid slope, needing treatment and evacuation to the roadside, am I correct in thinking that won't be free in the alps? 

Op, you need volunteers, plenty of them. Running the tows, ideally two for every day of the week in winter. Plus members who are a welder, a leckie, someone with a tractor if you need to remove motors, pulleys, cables. Car parks, snow clearance, toilets... 

It's funding the small stuff that's hard, even with 200 members you might be lucky to get 10 working if you have a repair day in summer.

If it's in operation now, look at their electricity costs, minimum number of passes needed per day to cover it. Obviously you need to make money over this to cover all the other costs, but if you can barely turn a profit on the day it could be a losing battle, especially as electricity prices haven't likely peaked yet globally. 

However, are there local grants for such facilities, could you charge a special rate for school groups midweek? Additionally is it flood light? More costs, but potentially more weekday evening custom. 

Honestly, doing something like this with no experience is a bad idea.

Is this in the UK or elsewhere ? Might help if you could give some idea of the size of the resort - somewhere like the Lakeland Ski Club on Raise, like Glencoe or larger ?

"I'm thinking small resort in the alps."

Not sure if the OP is looking to buy an existing resort, or build one from scratch.

I think Moacs has the right idea...

I live Just down the road form Puy St Vincent and Pelvoux ski resorts and in driving distance of lots of smaller ski areas. To the best of my understanding none of the small community run resorts make any money, they normally run at a loss and some times a big one. One reports 800,000€ a season loss. Each season you here a lot of talk about how they are going to change to make them more viable, one place is maybe looking at have just one lift up that access ski touring lines. I will give you a few example of the issues I hear about.

I am guessing your bid is to manage it? the problem with this is (from my limited knowledge but talking to others) that to try and make a profit you would need a major over all of how the resort run's, such as just opening weekends and in the school holidays but most of the contract insist that they open 7 days a week and locals get a discount pass etc so it make it hard. Out of the holiday season some of these places are dead. Even puy which is a large resort is quite in Jan, you have the piste to yourself.

On top of the ski resort business, you would need to get your head around French employment laws, again from what I understand a nightmare, one of the biggest issues is hours. The guys who work on the piste need a certain amount of hours to allow them to qualify for the benefits to help them out of season, if you offer hours below this you will struggle to get staff, that is just one example.

Also does it have snow making. The French alps is have a poor year for snow especially the southern part, and a lot of resorts are looking at how they are going to future proof the resort, with a lot of the smaller ones struggling with answers. Without snow making equipment, access to water and the temps to be able to make it, I don't see a future for many. - worth a read - https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2022/feb/17/future-proofed-piste-sustain...

Sorry that all sound negative but its seams like a tough business, I may know a few people that may talk to you, but its half term here and everyone in resorts is flat out so it wouldn't be for a few weeks.

Cheers

I can't think of a much riskier business than a ski resort. Maybe an airline.

Especially with climate change for anywhere relatively low.

I've read of several French resorts closing but can't remember reading/hearing of any new resorts opening.

If you can read French you might find this of interest

https://www.lemonde.fr/economie/article/2021/08/13/randonnee-vtt-raquettes-...

In Germany and Austria, plenty of smaller resorts are closing lower down. Water costs for snow cannons, and the lack of frost days even more a problem than a lack of snow.

Good thing from an environmental POV, bad for the operators, but also good for the communities who were long subsidizing these operations.

Coming in as a newbie? Just don't.

CB

I live in a small French village which is also a small ski resort, mostly used by families. I don't know about the finances in any detail but its clear that there are many busineses in the village who wouldn't exist without skiing at the moment despite efforts to encourage non-skiing visitors. Its not just the two bars/ restuarants & the hotel, its also our village shop which has something like a third of its annual turn over in maybe 4 to 5 weeks of school holidays at Christmas/New Year & Febuary school half term.

So a subsidy to keep the pistes open & the lifts running can make economic sense although its going to get harder to justify as the costs of snow making increase & the period when snow making is possible gets shorter.

I agree, skiing based tourism is essential for many communities in the Alps. However, costs are rising, both financially and ecologically, due to climate change. For many places it will become impossible to access or fund the subsidies required to keep the resorts running, and alternatives are desperately needed.

Also, I very much doubt that as an outsider you would find it easy to access the political and funding networks you absolutely need to keep your resort afloat. Any regional or central state funding would probably go to the next valley where the folks running the resort have the right contacts...

If I were forced at gunpoint to invest into alpine hospitality I would probably go for converting an old ski resort into a mountain bike resort! If anything, that sport is still expanding while skiing is on its way out below 2000m...

CB