UKC

Just come back from a week skiing to discover that the car rental company has charged me for 'damage' caused to the car during my rental. We had an early flight so had to use the out of hours drop-off facility- so there was nobody from the hire agency to inspect / corroborate the condition of the car at the time of return.
Fortunately I took plenty of photos of the car when we dropped it off so I have evidence that it was returned in the undamaged condition I received it.
A brief internet search reveals that this is a common 'scam' the rental companies use.
Be warned!!! even if there is someone from the agency there who inspects and signs-off the car when you return it- people have still had credit card deductions when they have got home.
1. Take PLENTY of photographs both inside AND out as evidence.
2. keep hold of ALL OF your rental agreement documents- especially anything relating to the drop-off inspection.

In reply to Removed User:

Geneva by any chance ?

I got stung years ago for 90euro for fuel charge when I had filled it up 30 mins before drop off, they are all thieving dishonest gits.

In reply to Removed User:
There is a peculiar Italian variant on this, in that for certain times of the year, for a surprisingly large area of Italy, it is compulsory to have snow tyres and/or chains, yet the cars are hired without them. Certainly they will additionally rent you chains, in my experience in quite good condition, but how come they can hire cars that are as they stand, illegal to drive according to Italian law? (Quite why you are legally obliged to have chains to drive around the lowlands of Torino is another question).

This is somewhat ameliorated by the fact that car hire in Italy can be quite cheap, so even with the need to pay the extra just to make the cars legal (as well of course as it being very sensible to have chains at least if you are driving in mountain areas), the total cost is still not outrageous.

Well worth emailing your Italian car hire supplier beforehand for clarity on this point though.

In reply to Simon4:

Never heard of this before (and I've been following web forum discussions about chains and snow for western European countries for decades.

Could you supply some links for this?

Only on certain roads? or on all roads in a substantial region?

Thanks,

Ken

P.S.
France: it is perfectly normal for hired cars _not_ to have chains or snow tyres unless specially requested.
Germany: same question has arisen about car hire at the Munich MUC airport.

In reply to Simon4:

It's not mandatory in Italy to have winter tyres, only chains are mandatory when required, all the info you need here for Euro countries.......

http://www.rac.co.uk/drive/travel/driving-abroad/winter/

In reply to Removed User:

Thanks for the heads up - which airport and company please?

I'm about to hire from Grenoble to drive to Courcheval in April and was going to go with the cheapest on offer (Angus Car Hire) but I might switch to one of the big names if I just face a scam afterwards. Fortunately I think my pick up and drop off times are normal daytime hours.

In reply to Simon4:
In Spain it's compulsory to have a warning triangle and carry fluorescent vests for each occupant within the car. This is something the police were hot on checking in their not infrequent road blocks, and imposing fines if you didn't have them. About three years ago I hired a car from Almeria airport and on checking it over found there was no warning triangle and no fluorescent vests. I went back to the car hire office to complain that although they were legally required, they hadn't been provided. The hire company* said that that was my responsibility as driver, but for an extra fee they would hire them to me!! I don't know if this has changed now, but check if you don't want to risk falling foul of the police.

* I don't know if other hire companies were operating this sneaky extra, but I'll give you all three guesses as to the hire company involved?

Clue: they are named after a precious metal which is yellow in colour and because of this experience, and other unscrupulous practices I won't touch them again with a barge pole...........

In reply to Removed User:

Yep. Good advice. Have always taken a bundle of photos when dropping of hire cars. Even if "they" examine upon return.

In reply to kenr:


Not offhand, but there were leaflets in the pick up office of the car hire co at the airport, not displayed before.


Region based, as far as I could see.


True. But it is also common in France for Winter tyres/chains to be obligatory on specific mountain roads.

In reply to Trangia:

I have got a car from GoldCar in Valencia 3 months ago. There was vest and sign. As well as spare wheel. I agree - they are scumbags and personally I rent from them only with zero excess deal.

Mentioning spare wheel - I always check if where's one and tools to swap wheels are in the boot. Few years ago had very unpleasant surprise to discover car was missing a spare. At 2AM on mountainous road in Serra da Estrela. That was very cold night.

In reply to Removed User:

A possible money making extra that I hadn't experienced before (in Italy) is being "advised" to take additional breakdown cover as the Roadside assistance included was limited.

In reply to nutme:


That's good to hear. Mine was a few years ago, so maybe they have improved or been forced to improve over the vest and triangle?

In reply to Trangia: We were scammed by them in Bilbao this summer - charged for imaginary damage. Avoid !!

In reply to kenr:

There are roadside signs all over Aosta region giving dates when either winter tyres or chains are compulsory. Up until late April often.

In reply to kenr:

https://www.europcar.com/driving-abroad-in-winter-conditions

"In the Val d'Aosta area from 15 October to 15 April all vehicles must be either fitted with winter tires or snow chains."

"You should carry snow chains when travelling in Italy. Road signs across Italy indicate when snow chains are compulsory"

So still a bit ambiguous according to that, if you hire in the lowlands by an airport, they may not be compulsory but maybe where you are going to.

This, on the other hand gives a rather different answer :

http://www.italymagazine.com/community/post/car-hire-and-snow-tyres-snow-ch...

"Italian Law requires that all cars are fitted with either snow tyres or snow chains on most major roads; including motorways; from 15 November 2012 until 15 April 2013. - See more at: http://www.italymagazine.com/community/post/car-hire-and-snow-tyres-snow-ch..."

So, not terribly surprisingly in Italy, the situation is not clear cut but there obviously are regulations that you might fall foul of. Of course if you are driving to the sorts of places most of us drive to in the Winter, your prime concern should not be with the regulations but with the situation you will be in if you don't have Winter equipment.

However you do get your chains (and snow tyres), practice putting the chains on in a safe, comfortable, relaxed place before you are forced to do it in the dark, in a blizzard on a winding mountain road for real. I have heard tell that it is also worth inspecting the tyres to see if they are up to scratch, though the last time I hired in Italy, I was handed a brand new set, still in their plastic case which was still wrapped in cellophane.

In reply to kenr:


One further comment, with all the usual caution to be applied to forum posts :

"The law requires you have snow chains in the boot if it starts to snow. So, if you arrive to pick up your hire car adn the weather at the moment calls for snow chains then the company has to provide the car ready to drive. If its sunny and hot, then no. Simple - Italian law says its always your fault whatever happens and for whatever reason.

Here in Sicily we also have to have snow chains on the road between Modica and Ragusa. IT never snows. It never goes below freezing, though four years ago it did sleet for 10 minutes once. In order to avoid the understandable wrath of drivers they have put the sign after the entrance to the road - so you dont see it until you're on the road. With no snow chains you must leave at the next exit - which is Ragusa. ANAS is covered by law - ie if there is terrible weather its your fault you werent prepared, and we dont buy snow chains, because its our fault we cant see the road sign. Everyone happy. "

In reply to Simon4:

But this page says that the only regional requirement for Italy is in the province of Aosta -- which is arguably the most mountainous province.
I would not say that supports the original claim of a regional requirement for a
"surprisingly large area of Italy".


But this text is not from any sort of authoritative source, just an unverified inflated fearful assumption being made by someone asking a question.


My personal belief: There are enormous numbers of Italian citizens driving cars in winter season on the motorways between the northern cities Torino + Milano + Venezia with no snow tyres or chains -- and no police authorities are interested.

Ken

In reply to Babika:
Avis- Lyon Airport.

Having emailed the Europe CEO and the company CEO I had a reply from their London office within a couple of hours.

They have refunded the bill as they can't 'conclusively deem the liability to be mine'. Fairs fair, it's a speedy resolution but as my colleague who rented another car at the same time from the same place has had exactly the same experience- it rather smacks of a bit of a scam running.
I'm going to see if they can provide hard evidence of the damage which contradicts my photos- if they can't, it might well have to be a matter for the Lyon Police to look into as suspected credit-card fraud.

Will also look at taking out an annual rental excess insurance as the costs at point of rental are extortionate.

In reply to Removed User:

Very useful for me so thanks for bringing this to light. I've got a car on hire from Avis in Nimes in June so I'll know what to look out for and what steps to take.

In reply to Removed User:
In Italy I am pretty sure it's region specific re snow tyres or chains. Flying into Caselles (Turin ) you will get snow tyres and chains may be extra.
In Malpensa or Linate (Milan) you will get normal tyres and chains. These are the only 2 I know about. Personally I prefer the snow tyre option.

In reply to Removed User: I have had a similar experience after returning a car back to Geneva airport rented from Hertz a week earlier. There was a small "scuff" of circular scratches on the front bumper which was visible when I collected the car. The type of mark often seen on rental cars and so small as to be barely noticeable. My mistake however was to have already signed the paperwork in all the relevant boxes in the airport terminal before taking the short transfer bus to the rental collection point. Needless to say the scuff was not recorded so on return when the car was checked I ended up with a disagreement. I wrote on the rental return form that the damage had been present on collection and then took photos of the damage. 2 weeks later a €1200 charge for damage repair appeared on my credit card! I contacted Hertz in Geneva and requested details which showed the damage charge had been raised a mere 23 mins after I had dropped the car off. By email I pointed this out, asked for a copy of the damage quote from their repair garage and I detailed the cost a U.K. garage would charge for an entire bumper replacement. The charge was quickly refunded along with an apology. The entire episode smacked of the local Hertz branch using false damage charges to inflate their profit centre, in other words a scam. I wonder how many others also ended up with a charge for the same damage on the same car? A lesson learned about checking for every mark and ensuring it is clearly recorded on the hire form no matter how keen I am to get going. Also suffice to say I have subsequently avoided using Hertz in Geneva.

In reply to Removed User:

I had this from National in Geneva about 10 years back. Tried to charge me 650 euro. I contacted my credit card company who sorted it.

In reply to Removed User:

Also, make sure they get the insurance right.

My sister ended up with a huge bill on her credit card from Hertz after a kangaroo hit the car in Australia. Despite having requested the top level of insurance that would have covered all of this (for exactly that reason, given where they were planning on going), the agent got it wrong on the computer and it ended up in a bit of a "her word against theirs" wrangle.

I'm not sure of the full details, but it took a while to get resolved and involved the credit card company putting a stop on the bill being paid.

My sister works for one of the big car hire companies, so knows what she's talking about - they just don't have a presence in Oz.