UKC

Skiing holiday for mixed abilities

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 neuromancer 31 Dec 2018

Perhaps the UKC group can advise.

Classic conundrum. Partner wants to learn to ski, I'm super keen but don't want to spend £1500 and 10 days' leave JUST babysitting on slopes. Recognise that trying to teach purely myself is a MINEFIELD that I am not prepared for.

How have other people squared this circle? Both have lessons in the morning? (something fun for me - maybe a tour?, beginner for her) Join groups on alternate days? (e.g. both have group lessons all day day 1, then ski together day 2 e.t.c)?

How easy is something like this at most resorts and are lessons easy to drop in and out of?

In my mind I'm thinking about the 2nd line resorts in italy and france - maybe serre c, cervinia, la thuile, sainte foy...

 

 LastBoyScout 31 Dec 2018
In reply to neuromancer:

I've been away a few times with complete non-skiiers.

Took a friend to Les Houches as part of a much bigger group. Dropped her off in ski school in the mornings for a few days and she came out with the rest of us in the afternoons. Was skiing reds confidently by the end of the week.

Also took my then girlfriend, a complete non-skiier, to Sestriere with my family - my Dad and sisters can ski, my Mum likes to do the walking trails/sightseeing.

She had 2 lessons at Milton Keynes before we went, then spent the first 3 mornings in ski school and the afternoons with us. On day 4, we had an away trip to another French resort that had a superb couple of long blue runs that she mostly just spent the day practicing/consolidating on while we hooned around the reds and blacks.

By the end of the week, she managed to ski the women's Olympic course.

So, handy to go as a group, make use of the pros to teach her and be prepared for lots of patience in the afternoons while she practices what she's learnt. Use the mornings to recce the easy runs, ice patches and coffee shops. By the end of the week, you should be able to enjoy runs together.

Don't underestimate how hard it is to get a frustrated, tired and sore novice off a mountain then they've had enough! Day 3 is statistically the worst day for injuries.

 Andy Hardy 01 Jan 2019
In reply to neuromancer:

If I was in your place, I'd be booking a series of lessons for you both at a local dry slope before heading out to the resort.

OP neuromancer 01 Jan 2019
In reply to Andy Hardy:

Already made it a rule that we need to do Xscape's Beginner Day class or the "Plough to Parallel" class before we go so we don't lose two days there and she feels more confident.

Thanks for the rest of the advice, particularly about doing a recce of icy and overskied blues!

 

 

Post edited at 18:27
The Marmot 02 Jan 2019
In reply to neuromancer:

Having trodden this path a few times before:

Lessons in UK - must have

Try go as a group so your GF has friends in the afternoon if she doesn't fancy hanging out with you on the slopes - catered chalet might help solve this if you're traveling only as a couple.

Never ever try teach your GF - simply not worth the agro.

Plan for an easy day or day off mid-week. Lots of cafe/apres breaks in the PM

I personally prefer Austria over France, but that's personal choice - St Anton is superb.

 Enjoy!

 summo 02 Jan 2019
In reply to neuromancer:

For yourself I would just book one private lesson on the 2nd day. One day to shift the cobwebs them some specific coaching.  It leaves the other mornings free for you to ski where you like and relax in the afternoon, perhaps focusing on the pointers you were given. 

In reply to LastBoyScout:

> couple of long blue runs that she mostly just spent the day practicing/consolidating on while we hooned around the reds and blacks.

I wouldn't leave a beginner to their own devices. I have always accompanied beginners in the afternoon, after their morning lessons.

It's possible to practice and improve your own technique on any slope; do that whilst the girlfriend is practicing hers.

 tomsan91 02 Jan 2019
In reply to neuromancer:

A two week holiday is not a schedule when taking someone skiing for the first time in my opinion, its a long time to be out on the slopes, boot bang from rental boots can put a big downer on even a weeks holiday. One week in late January and another in March is what I did when teaching my other half to ski

Rigid Raider 02 Jan 2019
In reply to tomsan91:

Best advice yet. It gives time for the muscles to develop and the mental bit to sink in.

 nuts and bolts 02 Jan 2019
In reply to neuromancer:

As many lessons as possible before you go. Also lots of ski exercises will help strengthen quads and gluts etc.

I almost always do ski school in morning as it is not too physical (lots of standing about listening to instructor and watching the class do exercises one at a time) so gentle warm up. Quite often you get to know your fellow learners in the lesson and end up free skiing with some of them in the afternoon as they ski your level. 

A beginner will learn very quickly on a weeks holiday in the alps and likely ski red by end of trip. 

 kathrync 03 Jan 2019
In reply to neuromancer:

I have done this with my partner.  For 6 days skiing, he usually does morning lessons for 5 days.  I amuse myself - sometimes I ski what I want alone, sometimes I will go out with a guide or do something "fun" like a bumps lesson, or sometimes I will hook up with other people to ski harder stuff or tour.  We meet for lunch, and in the afternoons I will go out with him.  He is usually tired and doesn't want to ski for long in the afternoons anyway, particularly as the runs gets moguled, so I often get an hour or so to myself at the end of the day too.  And then we spend the sixth day together.  He is a very cautious person and after several years is only just beginning to tackle reds, although he is confident on most blues on his own, so sometimes we will do laps on different runs off the same lift.  

I learnt in a similar setting myself, but I was a little more confident, and was getting down reds and the odd easy black by the end of the first week (albeit not with any kind of style).

As you have rightly identified, trying to teach her is a minefield.  Bear in mind that if you are skiing with her in the afternoons, this extends to trying to give friendly tips.  They may not be received well if she is tired, and they may be confusing to her if they cover something she hasn't done with an instructor yet, approach the problem in a different way or cover something that she knows she is doing wrong but that hasn't clicked for her yet.  Depending on how she takes it, perhaps offer a tip once but don't push it - let the instructors do their jobs in her lessons.

As others have said, it is a lot easier in a larger mixed ability group, although my partner and I have managed reasonably well with just the two of us.  Ten days is a long trip for a beginner, make sure you build in at least one rest day!

 climbingpixie 03 Jan 2019
In reply to neuromancer:

I went to Tignes as a total beginner with my experienced skier boyfriend (and his family) a few years ago. I had a handful of lessons in advance and then booked into ski school for the week. I went off for my lessons in the morning and he used the time to whizz round all the black runs and hard stuff he wanted to do. We met up for lunch and then skied together in the afternoons, either just the two of us or with his family. It seemed to work quite well and I can only remember one afternoon that ended with me in tears while he shouted advice at me across the piste.

 climbingpixie 03 Jan 2019
In reply to kathrync:

> Depending on how she takes it, perhaps offer a tip once but don't push it - let the instructors do their jobs in her lessons.

I found my partner incredibly helpful in our afternoons together. He'd give me maybe one tip per hour, letting me incorporate it into my skiing in my own time and always couched in terms of 'why don't you try to do or think about x' instead of 'you're doing y wrong'. I felt like I learnt a lot from him using this method in a totally non-pushy and stress free way.

 

 climbingpixie 03 Jan 2019
In reply to captain paranoia:

> I wouldn't leave a beginner to their own devices. I have always accompanied beginners in the afternoon, after their morning lessons.

I dunno, one of the best things on my first skiing holiday was the final afternoon where I went off on my own. For me, ending my holiday by being at a stage where I could go off confidently alone, choosing the pistes I wanted to ski and stringing together the lift logistics, was a real confidence boost and a cracking way to end the trip. It meant I ended the week feeling like a skier instead of a beginner.

 kathrync 03 Jan 2019
In reply to climbingpixie:

> I found my partner incredibly helpful in our afternoons together. He'd give me maybe one tip per hour, letting me incorporate it into my skiing in my own time and always couched in terms of 'why don't you try to do or think about x' instead of 'you're doing y wrong'. I felt like I learnt a lot from him using this method in a totally non-pushy and stress free way.

Yeah, for sure tips from partners can be helpful, particularly when presented in a stress free way.  But they can also be unhelpful if pushed or just presented at the wrong moment and of course it depends on the personalities of the individuals involved too. I didn't mean to say don't offer tips, just to be aware that it can be a cause of more stress and to back off if need be.

In reply to climbingpixie:

> I dunno, one of the best things on my first skiing holiday

As with the other advice, it depends on the people, I suppose. Maybe the beginners I've had were more cautious/nervous, and not so outdoorsy. And I'm probably a bit too over protective. My friends have always expressed gratitude that they knew I was there, bringing up the rear, to help if necessary, and to fend off other, less considerate skiers.

 Frank4short 03 Jan 2019
In reply to captain paranoia:

> > I dunno, one of the best things on my first skiing holiday

> As with the other advice, it depends on the people, I suppose. Maybe the beginners I've had were more cautious/nervous, and not so outdoorsy. And I'm probably a bit too over protective. My friends have always expressed gratitude that they knew I was there, bringing up the rear, to help if necessary, and to fend off other, less considerate skiers.

There's something important to take note of here. Pixie is a woman who leads E2(?) and has climbed for donkeys years. Likely probably done at least a couple of other outdoor sports and possibly some winter climbing. As a result of which she's likely not particularly afraid of heights or steep slopes, she's got good balance, probably quite athletic/sporty as a general rule, is goey, and (in my experience this is the most important part) as someone who does other outdoorsy sports to a reasonably high standard is open to actually properly listening to commentary/suggestions on how she's doing and what she should do to improve it even if initially it feels uncomfortable. These are all brilliant traits to have for learning to ski (or most other sports) but most people who are introduced to something like skiing aren't going to approach it from that angle. 

At this point i've done the different abilities/introduction thing with over a dozen people including at least 2 ex girlfriends and my current wife. The best thing to possibly do most of the time is be supportive and calm. If people ask for advice never give more than one item/nuance of technique to do in any given half day period. For most people skiing isn't intuitive for quite a while so over advising typically confuses matters. Never forget what they're being taught is likely quite different to how you might do things so it's important to either try to remember how you were told when learning or if in doubt tell them to go back to basics how their instructor told them. 

As to the period personally i'd say most people who are still learning a lot only start to really get to grips with it by the 4th or 5th day on any given ski holiday (whether the first or their fourth holiday) so it means they're not really improving significantly until after then. In my experience being able to get 8/9 days of skiing means the period of growth is extended but not excessively before they get pissed off/tired of it like you might on a 2+ week holiday as a beginner.

These are however mearly my €0.02

In reply to Frank4short:

> There's something important to take note of here.

Yes, something like that. General confidence in the outdoors; how to find their way, how to stay warm, hope to cope with poor weather, and the unforeseen.

Having someone who is confident, calm and supportive allows them to concentrate on their skiing, without worrying about getting lost (or unlost...), or whether they will be able to ski a particular run.

 Becky E 03 Jan 2019
In reply to LastBoyScout:

> So, handy to go as a group, make use of the pros to teach her and be prepared for lots of patience in the afternoons while she practices what she's learnt. Use the mornings to recce the easy runs, ice patches and coffee shops. By the end of the week, you should be able to enjoy runs together.

Agree 100%!

We've had successful trips with mixed ability groups.  Our total beginners / semi-injured / lazy-dayers were easily accommodated with lunch-stops at places where you could easily get a lift most/all the way off the mountain.

Corvara (Dolomites) is particularly good for this.

Consider private lessons rather than group lessons: you make much quicker progress.

Others have made important observations about offering tips to the beginner.  If possible, try and have a sneaky watch of the lessons to see what/how the instructor is teaching her, then you can say the same thing and just remind her what she's been taught (rather than teaching something new/different).

OP neuromancer 03 Jan 2019
In reply to neuromancer:

This has all been great.

Can I ask the tangenital question then - if going to a new resort how would you look to meet up with other people you could ride with in the morning whilst your partner is training? Particularly if you fancied some lift-accessed offpiste fun?

Find a lesson and use that to make a few friends? What's usually the ability level in the average group off-piste lessons? Look for particular schools? Private groups? British guided groups?

Post edited at 20:58
 nuts and bolts 04 Jan 2019
In reply to neuromancer:

Hire a guide - best way to grab a morning off piste

Chat to people on lifts/in the bar/resteraunt queues

 LastBoyScout 04 Jan 2019
In reply to captain paranoia:

> I wouldn't leave a beginner to their own devices. I have always accompanied beginners in the afternoon, after their morning lessons.

Couldn't be bothered to type exhaustive descriptions! Having done a couple of runs with her a couple of times, she just wanted to be left to practice on her own - the resort wasn't busy and the weather was perfect. We kept checking up on her, we knew where she'd be. As others have mentioned, she's confident, plays sport to a high level and is reasonably fit and said she got a lot out of the day, as she didn't have to worry about being on lots of different pistes and could just practice at her own pace without holding everyone else up. She was noticably better the next day.

The girl I took to Les Houches ended up on her own after a lesson and said similar of her afternoon alone.

That approach might not suit everyone.

 Diddy 04 Jan 2019

Good fitness and mental preparation before going helps. The use of the six inches between the ears is the most potent area to gain confidence. On any subject we forget most we are told; most we read but learn by doing. Wheelwrights made many wheels, correcting their mistakes, before they made a wheel that stayed together.

There is a need to understand how the skis and the body work together to allow us to move, bending the knees is not enough- I think it is the ankles as well anyway. Dry slopes over here and tuition so you can at least snow plough around otherwise the Alps are an expensive place to get to and learn. A day or two in the Alps skiing greens and blues usually enables rapid progression as confidence increases and as speed picks up magically the skis start coming closer together.

Ski schools in the morning and ski with the family in the afternoon. I think unqualified tuition however well meaning is debatable unless you have teaching knowledge in other subjects. Unsolicited advice is often unwelcome.

Enjoy the snow it is a great pastime and sport. I learnt the basics in Scotland and a natural English speaker helps in teaching.

 

Post edited at 15:23

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