UKC

When lowering a climber should they be advised to keep their hands off the rope?  I was taught to do this (to avoid rope-rock injuries) but most peoples natural inclination is to grab the rope - I see lots of kids doing this at outdoor climbing sessions.  Does it matter?  I'm not a professional but want to instil good practice in my kids.

It doesn't matter, obviously if they're gripping on tightly, it's an indication they're not quite happy with proceedings.

Arms free give more options if they start to swing around a bit, but I don't think I'd be insisting they do anything other than what feels right for them.

I'd have thought a least having one hand on the rope would stop you tipping upside-down.

A lot of kids and beginners do this as they're nervous and don't feel fully confident in the rope or harness, but as they get more and more experienced and confident you might find that they naturally stop doing it.

I guess doing that so they feel happy and confident then encouraging to let go at a later time when less uncomfortable.

yes I have one that will happily let go, the other not keen at all...but as you say maybe that will come and I shouldn't bother too much at this stage.  I have seen nasty rope-rock injury but it was at the top of climb where climber grabbed rope where it came over edge.

yes, i don't think it really matters. i think the most important thing is that whoever is on the rope is safe and comfortable. i've definitely done it plenty of times post a particularly hairy route.

I always keep a hand on the rope, when I'm being lowered - around the knot area, close to the harness.  Why wouldn't you?   I definitely try to get a hand there if I fall off (sorry, when I fall off) - helps stop you inverting if nothing else.  Perhaps there's a reason why children shouldn't do this, but I can't really think of one.  No doubt someone will be around to enlighten me

I've actually encouraged nervous kids to do this to stop them grabbing the holds instead.

As long as they're enjoying it and keep building their confidence it'll be all good, no biggie that they are starting from different points or their confidence is coming at different rates.  We're all different!

good point it might encourage them to lean out more

Hands off so they can make their celebration rollie ready for as soon as they're down.

The danger with kids is that they freeze on a ledge  and as you try and lower they pull on the rope. Then you potentially have a kid frozen with a load of slack not going anywhere. 

Having worked in climbing walls many moons ago getting kids to grab the rope is a very helpful tool in getting them to let go of the wall and lower off .

Hands on the rope helps with stability and prevents nervous people latching onto holds as they go. On the other hand, hands off the rope can fend off the rock as you pass overlaps.

No hard and fast right rule I'd say.

jk

Grabbing the rope might help them to let go of the wall initially, but beyond that I'd say it's a bad habit to get into so should be discouraged.

Hanging on to the rope reduces the trust in the system you want to be building, if you're not in direct control of the decent (i.e. abseiling) then hands should be free to fend off the rock as you lower, and in a worst case scenario grabbing a loose rope at an inappropriate time could result in the rope getting wrapped around a limb or digit and then loaded, causing injury.

Normally I'd ask a beginner to hold the dead end of the rope (near their harness) as it stops from grabbing the live end (ouch) or the rock and it gives them confidence.

Indoors: On rope for beginners*, not bothered for anyone else.

* Mainly to get them to remove their hands from the wall

Outdoors: Hands are often handy for avoiding banging into the rock so not on the rope.

Exactly this.  Children can be prone to grabbing the rope between the rope between the anchor and the belayer, and also quite capable of holding their own bodyweight as the belayer pays slack into the system.  Giving them an active instruction of where to put their hands removes the chance that they put them into the wrong place.

Once they're a bit more confident, get them to do the Jack and Rose pose from Titanic.

Let them hold the rope.

Although individuals vary... an adult tends to have centre of gravity around their belly button, which tends to be a few inches below the harnesses belay loop. So sitting on a rope in a sit-harness (abseiling, being lowered) is usually fairly secure.

Kids, and more so the younger they are, tend to have a slightly higher centre of gravity which might be the same or a little above the belay loop of a harness. To stop the feeling of turning upside down they may want to hold the rope. Why not let them?

Also be sure that the waist belt is securely above hips and for the youngest kids an appropriate harness (which is likely a full body) .

I still do the odd bit of work at my local climbing wall and we always get kids to hold the knot at their harness with both hands when first being lowered. The huge majority of kids find lowering the scariest part and quite a number are tempted to grab at holds on the way down, to reassert a bit of control. Holding the knot at least gives them something to cling onto. Anyone who's ever had to climb up and prise a frightened child off a climbing wall will know it's well worth avoiding. Getting them to hold the knot also makes it easier to get them to straighten their legs and get into a sitting posture, so avoiding the risk of a face plant.

Once kids have got a bit of experience I don't think it matters so I let them take their hands off the rope and get back to taking selfies, checking their likes, trolling their mates etc. 

With you on this one. And not always kids. One instance I saw was adult leader running out of strength near top of pitch, panicked and and grabbed rope coming up to top runner as afraid belayer wouldn't hold him , held onto this as belayer lowered him which resulted in huge loop from penultimate runner. Leader completely lost strength, let go and slack resulted in only stopping just above ground. Wrong actions by both climbers but it can happen.

Reclining topless on a chaise lounge? That seems borderline inappropriate.

I tend to be amazed how much it helps.  I have enough knowledge to not grab something dumb but holding onto something does just feel more secure.  Logically I am aware that if anything went wrong I won't be able to hold onto the rope and so it offers no practical benefit, nor do I even hold it particularly tightly (so if I needed my hand for any reason I could do so pretty quickly).

Nice way of getting kids to do it safely.  I can imagine it can be tough to get them to follow advice in stressful situation (i.e. being suspended by a rope on a harness when being lowered would be stressful for many)

It depends if you like flying, but arms in Spitfire mode suits me!

I think with novices/kids you’d probably have someone on the ground watching but my worry would be lowering someone you can’t see. You’re lowering and there’s tension on the rope as they’ve weighted it and are going hand over hand as the rope pays out. 
 

As you say. Potentially fatal. 

I think this a situation you'd normally take steps to avoid when instructing novices/children. You really need those sight-lines all the way down.

I quite often encourage hands off rope at some point during the first lower - for the nervous this can be near the ground and with the lowering paused. It encourages trust in the rigging and a more relaxed "shoulders back" body position. Hunching over and gripping hard isn't helpful - especially if going on to do abseils.

To the OP: the hazard that springs to mind with holding the rope is abseiling or being lowered over an overhang or bulge, when the fingers can be trapped between rope and rock. These tend to be special cases which call for a bit of specific briefing; it's not normally a problem on walls and slabs - so I don't think there's any need for a general prohibition on holding the rope.