UKC

Trad improver courses

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 Shane jones 02 May 2018

Hi 

I wanted to know who or what companies people recommend that offer a trad "improver" course. I started trad last year, did about a week in total and wanted to get some extra instruction to blow the cob webs off. I'm based near Chester but can travel to north wales. The Peak District. Or the Lake District. I have all my own kit but just a single 60m rope. I am free this weekend. 

any help would be great 

thanks

shane 

 jezb1 02 May 2018
In reply to Shane jones:

I suspect most people are pretty booked up this w/e, mad busy time of year.

Whoever you get make sure they're appropriately qualified because there's sadly many chancers out there.

http://www.ami.org.uk has a find an instructor feature.

Post edited at 21:06
OP Shane jones 02 May 2018
In reply to jezb1:

I thought that would be the case this weekend, ok thanks I'll take a look. I've heard that some people climb with someone that is in training for their qualification which they need hours for, is this a good idea or would you stick with a qualified instructor? 

 jezb1 02 May 2018
In reply to Shane jones:

I'm biased as a qualified instructor and coach but sticking with a qualified and experienced person has to be better than a trainee.

The current pass rate for the appropriate qualification to teach / coach lead rock climbing (Mountaineering Instructor) has a pass rate of 40%, so there's no guarantee a trainee will be any good / safe even if they think they are, although they may be.

Post edited at 22:27
 Aaron91 02 May 2018
In reply to Shane jones:

My climbing partner and I spent a day with an MIA trainee last month. Was her first session out and our first time trad and multi pitch climbing. Felt safe and learnt lots.

 Mark Eddy 03 May 2018
In reply to Shane jones:

Jez makes a valid point.

It's also very likely you'll receive good quality instruction from a trainee (as an active climber of 25+ years experience I feel qualified to comment).

Last year, whilst at a single pitch venue in Costa Blanca, I chatted to an active MIC (Mountaineering Instructor Certificate) holder who was struggling on a 4+ sport route!! And I mean properly struggling. No they weren't injured etc. It was a joke.

Then watching as a BMG belittled a super experienced climber in front of their peers did little did little to cement my confidence in the system. That climber then came very close to giving up as a direct result of the interaction. Thankfully, with careful coaxing he still climbs to this day (now in his 70's and will follow E1 on a good day) but has almost no confidence and won't lead, all stemming from this single incident.

The current pass rate is appallingly low and this is all too slowly being addressed by Mountain Training. At only 40% (and is it really as high as this Jez?) this must lead us to ask why.

Why are 60% of candidates not up to 'standard'?

What are they missing?

What are they doing wrong?

Are the assessors missing something?

Just a few of my musings 

 

 

Post edited at 00:12
OP Shane jones 03 May 2018
In reply to Mark Eddy:

That is terrible to hear. It should all be about encouragement. I think I'll have a look on some reviews on some qualified instructors going off what people are saying the instructor I had was seamed good but he is down in Cornwall but what I've learnt from him I've not put into practice since August. Like I said I need to blow the cobwebs off first I think. 

 jezb1 03 May 2018
In reply to Mark Eddy

> It's also very likely you'll receive good quality instruction from a trainee (as an active climber of 25+ years experience I feel qualified to comment).

With the rate a touch below 40%, I think it's certainly possible to get good quality instruction, but I would say it's less than likely

> Last year, whilst at a single pitch venue in Costa Blanca, I chatted to an active MIC (Mountaineering Instructor Certificate) holder who was struggling on a 4+ sport route!! And I mean properly struggling. No they weren't injured etc. It was a joke.

Not for me to comment about people's grades.

> Then watching as a BMG belittled a super experienced climber in front of their peers did little did little to cement my confidence in the system. That climber then came very close to giving up as a direct result of the interaction. Thankfully, with careful coaxing he still climbs to this day (now in his 70's and will follow E1 on a good day) but has almost no confidence and won't lead, all stemming from this single incident.

Sounds horrible, but again not going to comment more than that

> The current pass rate is appallingly low and this is all too slowly being addressed by Mountain Training. At only 40% (and is it really as high as this Jez?) this must lead us to ask why.

It's a touch under 40 for first time passes

> Why are 60% of candidates not up to 'standard'?

A vanity of reasons, it's a big syllabus. Some don't cruise VS 4c, some don't teach in a progressive manner, some get too many twists and tangles on belay changeovers, some don't navigate well enough, some don't stay safe, some make poor judgements scrambling, etc.

The MIA training courses are extremely good quality (in my opinion). MT have looked in to why the pass rate is lower in previous years, I think the findings were published on their website but may be mistaken.

A generalisation is that people are coming to the award more quickly than in the past and not consolidating well enough, perhaps not taking enough ownership of their consolidation. To help with this AMI are launching a mentoring scheme to AMI trainee members, which I hope will be really successful and positive.

> What are they missing?

As above

> What are they doing wrong?

As double above!

> Are the assessors missing something?

I very much doubt it! They're moderated by MT and AMI watched a course and thought it to be extremely good.

I'm a big believer in getting qualified. I'm also a big believer in staying current and never stopping learning. I know there are people operating out of the remit of their awards and I just don't get it, if they think they're up to the standard then why do do the assessment, even if they cruise it, it's still a massively valuable learning experience. My take is any potential customer should seek someone with the right qualification, and then have a chat to see if they're the right fit.

A slightly rushed reply, sorry, busy day ahead! Feel free to get in touch directly and I'd be happy to chat more about stuff

 

Post edited at 08:53

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