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Cheers very much Ben b, would never have known entries were open .
I'm all excited now! Two 7 hour drives either side of a mountain marathon - no problem! (
I'm all excited now! Two 7 hour drives either side of a mountain marathon - no problem! (
In reply to helen taylor: Lord forgive me, but why did I think of Dazman (aka Darren Jackson) and John Rushby when I read the thread title? The phonetically exact phrase used to be their catchprase (though sometimes it would be 'Ram')when they worked as shepherds for the Yorkshire Water Board.
In reply to helen taylor: Wicked Who are you running with? Do you know when entries open for the KIMM??
In reply to Marc C: It's an understandable error, but this is actually the mountain marathon I'm talking about, not a sheep....
In reply to Ali: The navigational expert, Marie .
Don't know when the KIMM entries open.
Don't know when the KIMM entries open.
In reply to helen taylor:
I can just imagine going and asking Crimper if he fancies going on the Lamm one weekend and gettinfg some of his mates from the Spittoon and Bucket, his new hostelry since there was an unfortunate fire at the Feathers when he threw too many logs on the fire,(gas powered)
I can just imagine going and asking Crimper if he fancies going on the Lamm one weekend and gettinfg some of his mates from the Spittoon and Bucket, his new hostelry since there was an unfortunate fire at the Feathers when he threw too many logs on the fire,(gas powered)
In reply to helen taylor: congrats and enjoy the pain. I know I always do At least you tend to cover better hills on the LAMM, which is some small recompense as I hobble round.
In reply to lummox: I woke up this morning and thought it was a dream, I didn't really agree to doing it. The confirmation email sitting in my inbox tells me otherwise!
It sounds easier than the KIMM though.... 500m less ascent and 10km shorter .
Famous last words...
It sounds easier than the KIMM though.... 500m less ascent and 10km shorter .
Famous last words...
In reply to helen taylor: less ascent really? I thought the LAMM was supposed to be more mountainous than the KIMM and the Breacon Beacons isn't the most mountainous area in Britain...
In reply to helen taylor: hmmm... in my experience ( 6 KIMMS/6 LAMMS) the LAMM tends to cover tougher terrain and I`d almost say more ascent.. sometimes less running on the LAMM, but it doesn`t feel any easier... certainly won`t this year,seeing as I`ve agreed to do A, like the eejit I am.
In reply to lummox: I'm only going off the stats on the site. I did the C class on last year's KIMM, and that's how it compared to the stats they quote for the D class on the LAMM for the last two years.
I'm just trying to convince myself it'll all be ok!
I'm just trying to convince myself it'll all be ok!
In reply to helen taylor: ah well, if you did C on the KIMM, D in the LAMM may well be easier.. depending on where the event is. It will still be fab but remember your midge repellant and mebe a midge hood- the little barstewards can make for a miserable weekend otherwise.
In reply to lummox: Ta very much for the tip - had forgotten the Scotland/midge equation!
In reply to lummox:
Any guesses where it'll be. Says 2 hours from Inverness and 2 from Edinburgh/Glasgow. That puts it a lot further south than last year.
Best of luck Helen!
Any guesses where it'll be. Says 2 hours from Inverness and 2 from Edinburgh/Glasgow. That puts it a lot further south than last year.
Best of luck Helen!
In reply to Marc C:
You are mistaking Darren's worrying ovine penetration habits for my cinematogrphic masterpiece filmed for the Yorkshire Dales National Park.
Enter the Lamb , tells the story of a lone sheep schooled since birth in the ancient martial art of Ecky Thump, and his quest to find who really killed his brother Nodrik. Along the way he has to fight a selection of evil border collies whilst stopping at several tea shops, the Grassington Museum and Buttertubs Pass. The final scene, filmed against Janets Foss is widely recognised as the benchmark in lamb v dog v farm cat fight scene in a nordiclly named setting.
If you look closely in the background you can Mick Ryan making the second ascent of Green Lipped Mussels dressed as a nun, while Mark Pretty eats a Ginster and throws pebbles at his head.
You are mistaking Darren's worrying ovine penetration habits for my cinematogrphic masterpiece filmed for the Yorkshire Dales National Park.
Enter the Lamb , tells the story of a lone sheep schooled since birth in the ancient martial art of Ecky Thump, and his quest to find who really killed his brother Nodrik. Along the way he has to fight a selection of evil border collies whilst stopping at several tea shops, the Grassington Museum and Buttertubs Pass. The final scene, filmed against Janets Foss is widely recognised as the benchmark in lamb v dog v farm cat fight scene in a nordiclly named setting.
If you look closely in the background you can Mick Ryan making the second ascent of Green Lipped Mussels dressed as a nun, while Mark Pretty eats a Ginster and throws pebbles at his head.
In reply to helen taylor:
going to sign up for it today, Ayshea is well up for it . . . Location must be somewhere around Torridon?
going to sign up for it today, Ayshea is well up for it . . . Location must be somewhere around Torridon?
In reply to helen taylor:
You pressed the confirm button
I can just blame you! :op
I just hope I understand this map and compass reading malarky...
> (In reply to lummox) I woke up this morning and thought it was a dream, I didn't really agree to doing it.
You pressed the confirm button
I can just blame you! :op
I just hope I understand this map and compass reading malarky...
In reply to marie:
Map and compass? What are they for? Use your nose!
> (In reply to helen taylor)
> I just hope I understand this map and compass reading malarky...
Map and compass? What are they for? Use your nose!
In reply to CJD: I know... Well at least I have something to aim for now - but less than a month to recover from my injuries before we do the Saunders!
In reply to helen taylor:
yes, but you sold the Saunders to me on the basis that it would be a leisurely stroll. I'd hate to think you'd *lied* to me :-S
yes, but you sold the Saunders to me on the basis that it would be a leisurely stroll. I'd hate to think you'd *lied* to me :-S
In reply to helen taylor:
We're in it too, after several years of never quite getting round to entering. Have never done any MMs before so had little idea what class to pick. Was tempted by B, should probably be doing D, so went for C
We're in it too, after several years of never quite getting round to entering. Have never done any MMs before so had little idea what class to pick. Was tempted by B, should probably be doing D, so went for C
In reply to Simon Caldwell: I wanted to enter the Novice but Helen said we'd be fine doing D...
Tis also my first MM. I'd like to do the KIMM this year too.
Tis also my first MM. I'd like to do the KIMM this year too.
In reply to marie:
I'm reserving judgement until I find out how painful and unpleasant the LAMM is. Though entry for the KIMM doesn't close until August so that'll give a few weeks for the memories to fade
> I'd like to do the KIMM this year too.
I'm reserving judgement until I find out how painful and unpleasant the LAMM is. Though entry for the KIMM doesn't close until August so that'll give a few weeks for the memories to fade
In reply to helen taylor: Ok when do you think I have to decide and beg a partner by to get in the entries?? Am having large dliemmas about it!!
In reply to Ali:
Have a look at the Team Lists section on http://www.lamm.co.uk
It depends what class, but there are current 43 entries for C class, the limit last year was 125, so at the current rate that would be less than 2 weeks. Other classes apparently fill more slowly.
re finding a partner, it seems to be possible to enter before you've got one, unless there really is someone out there called A.N. Other! There's also http://www.lamm.co.uk/2005/partner_needed.html
Have a look at the Team Lists section on http://www.lamm.co.uk
It depends what class, but there are current 43 entries for C class, the limit last year was 125, so at the current rate that would be less than 2 weeks. Other classes apparently fill more slowly.
re finding a partner, it seems to be possible to enter before you've got one, unless there really is someone out there called A.N. Other! There's also http://www.lamm.co.uk/2005/partner_needed.html
In reply to Ali:
Hey up,
I might do it with you if you're looking for a partner! I've asked Tim (my mate at college) but he hasn't got back to me yet and I'm not sure if he'll be interested since he won't have much gear and will need to buy it...
I thought you'd have someone to do it with or I'd have said so before.
To Anyone:
I fancy this mountain marathon lark but I've never done one before, what sort of class should I be looking at if I'm pretty fit (if I enter I'll get some easyish fell-running done over Easter and I can run a decent distance) but aren't great navigation-wise - C, D, Novice? Depending who I did it with this may go for both if us, so tricky navigation could slow us a lot. Do the courses tend to rely most importantly on navigation or fitness?
Cheers,
Si
Hey up,
I might do it with you if you're looking for a partner! I've asked Tim (my mate at college) but he hasn't got back to me yet and I'm not sure if he'll be interested since he won't have much gear and will need to buy it...
I thought you'd have someone to do it with or I'd have said so before.
To Anyone:
I fancy this mountain marathon lark but I've never done one before, what sort of class should I be looking at if I'm pretty fit (if I enter I'll get some easyish fell-running done over Easter and I can run a decent distance) but aren't great navigation-wise - C, D, Novice? Depending who I did it with this may go for both if us, so tricky navigation could slow us a lot. Do the courses tend to rely most importantly on navigation or fitness?
Cheers,
Si
In reply to helen taylor: Don't forget Helen, you can do this for training. Less than 42 days away now...... Go on you know you want to, and it'll be a great experience.......
.......Plug, Plug..........
.......Plug, Plug..........
In reply to Si dH: This is a great introduction to Fell Marathon Running.......
http://www.manxmountainmarathon.co.uk/
.....plug, plug.......
(Am I going to have to start paying for this to be a classified?)...
http://www.manxmountainmarathon.co.uk/
.....plug, plug.......
(Am I going to have to start paying for this to be a classified?)...
In reply to Si dH:
D, I think although you could probably do C or higher they ask for MM experience for anything more D. The course expect you to have a good mix of both, no nav skills and you'll spend hours more out there than others with them. But then if you are fit you can try and make up for bad nav skills. But proper bad nav skills and you'll be fu*ked
D, I think although you could probably do C or higher they ask for MM experience for anything more D. The course expect you to have a good mix of both, no nav skills and you'll spend hours more out there than others with them. But then if you are fit you can try and make up for bad nav skills. But proper bad nav skills and you'll be fu*ked
In reply to Eskdale massive: Just wondered though (I should know really), but is the Category A in a MM the same as a Category A Fell race, or are all MM's category A? Just I've done Category A races, and have been looking at the KIMM and LAMM and wondering what category I would go for (not wanting to take it easy, but also wanting to make it in to all the points and finish on time as well).
In reply to Allan Thomson: if you have consistently done long Cat A races, you should be fine for A on the LAMM or KIMM. Don`t think there is any correlation ebtween the FRA cats and the MMs. Go on the FRA site and I`m sure you`ll get a defintive answer.
In reply to Eskdale massive:
MM experience or lots of experience of long mountain days.
Does anyone know how the LAMM 'vetting' works? It says on the entry form that all entries will be vetted for experience, but there's nowhere on the form to say what experience you've got, and I got my confirmation immediately. Is it just to cover themselves or do they select some entries at random to check?
> they ask for MM experience for anything more D
MM experience or lots of experience of long mountain days.
Does anyone know how the LAMM 'vetting' works? It says on the entry form that all entries will be vetted for experience, but there's nowhere on the form to say what experience you've got, and I got my confirmation immediately. Is it just to cover themselves or do they select some entries at random to check?
In reply to Simon Caldwell: in previous years, you needed to provide egs of previous experience with your app form. Dunno what will happen this year.
In reply to Simon Caldwell:
Does anyone know how the LAMM 'vetting' works? It says on the entry form that all entries will be vetted for experience.
I think it also says it's on a first come first served basis somewhere else on the website.
Does anyone know how the LAMM 'vetting' works? It says on the entry form that all entries will be vetted for experience.
I think it also says it's on a first come first served basis somewhere else on the website.
In reply to Anita:
Yes. I'm working on the basis that this is correct, since I've had the email sayimng I've got a place so I've started buying some new kit
> I think it also says it's on a first come first served basis somewhere else on the website.
Yes. I'm working on the basis that this is correct, since I've had the email sayimng I've got a place so I've started buying some new kit
In reply to Simon Caldwell:
so I've started buying some new kit
Hmmm new things, I've been stocking up gradually. I now eye new gear with a 'is it light weight?' attitude....
so I've started buying some new kit
Hmmm new things, I've been stocking up gradually. I now eye new gear with a 'is it light weight?' attitude....
In reply to CJD:
There's a novice class in the LAMM but it fills up quick. Go for that!
Rumour has it there is a guy and his wife who do it: He with 70L rucksack; her with a bum bag. I believe they were spotted camping next to Ranulph Fiennes, replete with a barbeque and a sherry trifle.
There's a novice class in the LAMM but it fills up quick. Go for that!
Rumour has it there is a guy and his wife who do it: He with 70L rucksack; her with a bum bag. I believe they were spotted camping next to Ranulph Fiennes, replete with a barbeque and a sherry trifle.
In reply to Wibble Wibble: That sounds fantastic. I'll let Marie know she'll need a bigger rucksack .
In reply to CJD:
It's perfectly acceptable to walk in the Novice Class though, you need a better excuse than that!
It's perfectly acceptable to walk in the Novice Class though, you need a better excuse than that!
In reply to heather monkey:
what about the simple 'no desire to do it'? I've just been rather randomly invited to go ice climbing in canada next year, which sounds like something more exciting to aim for
(eek all the same)
what about the simple 'no desire to do it'? I've just been rather randomly invited to go ice climbing in canada next year, which sounds like something more exciting to aim for
(eek all the same)
In reply to CJD: Your going ice climbing in Canada during the summer? Your going to have to go pretty high in elevation or very far north!
In reply to CJD: Well the Lamm is in the summer! And you where trying to use that as an excuss!
In reply to Flatlander:
I was saying that I'd rather have something else to train for, if anything at all. Helen's roped me into the Saunders but I have no intention of doing that sort of thing twice.
I was saying that I'd rather have something else to train for, if anything at all. Helen's roped me into the Saunders but I have no intention of doing that sort of thing twice.
In reply to CJD: Awwww too soft? Doing events again and again is a good thing, as you know what you did wrong last time, and you know you have a time to aim to beat.
Number of times I've heard people say "Never again" about various events, and then you see them at the finish line the next year.....
Number of times I've heard people say "Never again" about various events, and then you see them at the finish line the next year.....
In reply to Allan Thomson:
no, my knees are knackered, it would appear my ankles are going the same way, I hate running as it hurts like f*ck, I've agreed to do the Saunders as we're in a walking class.
Nowt to do with being soft, lad.
no, my knees are knackered, it would appear my ankles are going the same way, I hate running as it hurts like f*ck, I've agreed to do the Saunders as we're in a walking class.
Nowt to do with being soft, lad.
In reply to CJD: Running off road should be better for you than on though. Have you seen a Dr about the problems. I had joint pain for ages, when on steroids, was possibly beginnings of Osteoperosis, but now I've started running again, and am off steroids the joint pain has gone. Sometimes weight bearing exercise can be good for you.
In reply to CJD:
Id really like to do one of these things one day, but like you, I have a crap knee and can only run a little before it gets sore.
Good Luck to all! respect deserved
Id really like to do one of these things one day, but like you, I have a crap knee and can only run a little before it gets sore.
Good Luck to all! respect deserved
In reply to Allan Thomson:
hello, I don't expect you to know this as I'd hate to think of you reading *everything* I write (even I'm not that egotistical ) but as I've explained numerous times before, I'm flat footed, which wasn't diagnosed until I was 26, and in consequence my knees have been thrown out so that the bones of my legs are grinding away at the back of my kneecaps. I've seen physios, I have orthotics and I've even tried small experimental bursts of supervised running but the pain and the swelling is remarkable. This pain won't go, so why aggravate it?
(sorry to sound arsy, but I thought it deserved a reasonable explanation)
hello, I don't expect you to know this as I'd hate to think of you reading *everything* I write (even I'm not that egotistical ) but as I've explained numerous times before, I'm flat footed, which wasn't diagnosed until I was 26, and in consequence my knees have been thrown out so that the bones of my legs are grinding away at the back of my kneecaps. I've seen physios, I have orthotics and I've even tried small experimental bursts of supervised running but the pain and the swelling is remarkable. This pain won't go, so why aggravate it?
(sorry to sound arsy, but I thought it deserved a reasonable explanation)
In reply to CJD: **firstly please don't shout at me if you've said this before as i haven't read the entire thread** Are your joints ok to walk on? I did the short score class in the KIMM last year and there were lots of people just walking that and to be honest, if your nav is good then you could do pretty well just by walking round and having a good route choice - especially if the area isn't particularly runnable. You don't have to be ultra-competative to participate no matter what people say! Then again, if you really don't want to do a mountain marathon then fair play
In reply to Ali:
yeah, i'm not convinced by the whole thing to be honest... I'm going to do the Saunders with Helen to see what the fuss is about, then decide. It would be rubbish to commit to lots of them then discover that I hated it... and then there's the small issue of navigation to consider...
But hopefully the sun will shine and it'll be good fun
yeah, i'm not convinced by the whole thing to be honest... I'm going to do the Saunders with Helen to see what the fuss is about, then decide. It would be rubbish to commit to lots of them then discover that I hated it... and then there's the small issue of navigation to consider...
But hopefully the sun will shine and it'll be good fun
In reply to CJD: Fair enough, didn't sound arsey. Respect for doing the Saunders in that condition.
In reply to steveP: Ah hello trouble, how are you doing? And on the point...where is my KIMM certificate? I agree, walking would be shocking wouldn't it?!
In reply to helen taylor:
Goods luck there - a couple of my other mates are in class D. Trouble is, I think I've got myself roped in to help them train...
James.
Goods luck there - a couple of my other mates are in class D. Trouble is, I think I've got myself roped in to help them train...
James.
In reply to James Rowe:
If you are a climber who does routes which are not single pitch peak routes i.e. you do mountain days you do not need to train for D class lamm.
Discuss.........
If you are a climber who does routes which are not single pitch peak routes i.e. you do mountain days you do not need to train for D class lamm.
Discuss.........
In reply to smithaldo:
Nice idea, but have you trained running over rough terrain for 8 hours, etc. But a nice variation is to go light, do easy mountain routes and run in and run out.
Nice idea, but have you trained running over rough terrain for 8 hours, etc. But a nice variation is to go light, do easy mountain routes and run in and run out.
In reply to smithaldo:
If you are a climber who does routes which are not single pitch peak routes i.e. you do mountain days you do not need to train for D class lamm
I'm sure you'd be able to get round it, but surely it depends on how competitive you are?
If you are a climber who does routes which are not single pitch peak routes i.e. you do mountain days you do not need to train for D class lamm
I'm sure you'd be able to get round it, but surely it depends on how competitive you are?
In reply to Wibble Wibble:
The answer is yes, but Why on earth, unless you are doing elite, would you have to train for 8 hours? When D class should take no longer than four/five hours? you should never need to train the distance you will actually be doing in the event.
Personal experience says you can easily get round C Lamm in 5 odd hours each day with no training if you can navigate and take lots of ibuprofen.
The answer is yes, but Why on earth, unless you are doing elite, would you have to train for 8 hours? When D class should take no longer than four/five hours? you should never need to train the distance you will actually be doing in the event.
Personal experience says you can easily get round C Lamm in 5 odd hours each day with no training if you can navigate and take lots of ibuprofen.
In reply to Eskdale massive:
No partner this year as his wife has had a baby, mind you that may be even better training than anything else.
Doing the HPM in two weeks instead. That is where the big boys play.
No partner this year as his wife has had a baby, mind you that may be even better training than anything else.
Doing the HPM in two weeks instead. That is where the big boys play.
In reply to smithaldo:
Damn... will have to train then to make up for navigational downfall...
Just out of interest, are their any key points I should remember when navigating? What can I do that will help me navigate successfully?
I am on a course in April, but a few prior hints and tips should go down well with the rest of my poor team...
:oS
> (In reply to Wibble Wibble)
>
>
> Personal experience says you can easily get round C Lamm in 5 odd hours each day with no training if you can navigate and take lots of ibuprofen.
>
>
> Personal experience says you can easily get round C Lamm in 5 odd hours each day with no training if you can navigate and take lots of ibuprofen.
Damn... will have to train then to make up for navigational downfall...
Just out of interest, are their any key points I should remember when navigating? What can I do that will help me navigate successfully?
I am on a course in April, but a few prior hints and tips should go down well with the rest of my poor team...
:oS
In reply to marie: >Just out of interest, are their any key points I should remember when navigating? What can I do that will help me navigate successfully?
Use a map and compass
Use a map and compass
In reply to marie:
Never go round, always go straight up and over. You will save time, especially if it is a long gradual path going round.
For a classic example check out the 2003 Lamm c first day maps, between oooh err checkpoint 4 and five maybe, or three and four, or even another, cant remember which but it was a really steep ascent then flat then down over a munro or round a long easy diversion. We went straight up and made up twenty minutes over some friends on the same stretch.
Never go round, always go straight up and over. You will save time, especially if it is a long gradual path going round.
For a classic example check out the 2003 Lamm c first day maps, between oooh err checkpoint 4 and five maybe, or three and four, or even another, cant remember which but it was a really steep ascent then flat then down over a munro or round a long easy diversion. We went straight up and made up twenty minutes over some friends on the same stretch.
In reply to helen taylor:
by the sound of her posts on the subject, it's going to take more than that for Marie...
by the sound of her posts on the subject, it's going to take more than that for Marie...
In reply to marie:
oh my, you sounds as bad as Ayshea, she too is attending the course with you guys!
To navigate succesfully, trust the compass bearings and the map and not what feels right in unknown territory
oh my, you sounds as bad as Ayshea, she too is attending the course with you guys!
To navigate succesfully, trust the compass bearings and the map and not what feels right in unknown territory
In reply to Eskdale massive:
Are they little silver balls too?
I think I am going to learn alot on the nav course!
> (In reply to marie)
>
> To navigate succesfully, trust the compass bearings
>
> To navigate succesfully, trust the compass bearings
Are they little silver balls too?
I think I am going to learn alot on the nav course!
In reply to smithaldo:
Depends on the team. Marie's stuck with me and my bad knees. It takes me far longer to go up hill, and even longer to come down, whilst on the flat I can move quite quickly (for me). Going round is always a better option unless it's a ridiculous distance round. If I aggravate my knees (on the downhill) I'll end up slower for the rest of the day. Did ok with my knees on the KIMM (it was the achilles tendonitis I was popping pills for) but sometimes it's just not worth risking it going wrong.
> Never go round, always go straight up and over. You will save time, especially if it is a long gradual path going round.
Depends on the team. Marie's stuck with me and my bad knees. It takes me far longer to go up hill, and even longer to come down, whilst on the flat I can move quite quickly (for me). Going round is always a better option unless it's a ridiculous distance round. If I aggravate my knees (on the downhill) I'll end up slower for the rest of the day. Did ok with my knees on the KIMM (it was the achilles tendonitis I was popping pills for) but sometimes it's just not worth risking it going wrong.
In reply to smithaldo:
Mmmmmmmm, I detect someone with lots of natural fitness. but you're right a D class day shouldn't take 8 hours.
I'm often wary of advice from people not to train at all. My girlfriend, who's extremely fit, injured her self on the D class due to a lack of specific training on the terrain you're likely to encounter.
> (In reply to marie)
>
> Never go round, always go straight up and over. You will save time, especially if it is a long gradual path going round.
>
> Never go round, always go straight up and over. You will save time, especially if it is a long gradual path going round.
Mmmmmmmm, I detect someone with lots of natural fitness. but you're right a D class day shouldn't take 8 hours.
I'm often wary of advice from people not to train at all. My girlfriend, who's extremely fit, injured her self on the D class due to a lack of specific training on the terrain you're likely to encounter.
In reply to smithaldo: Actually that is not neccesarily true - a guy I know won the A class in the KIMM last year - one of the main reasons for their lead after the first day was a route choice on a very long leg that took them quite a way off the straight line, but was a lot easier in terms of terrain and height gain/loss - this saved them a lot of time and helped them win. In really depends on the route choices you have available.
In reply to marie: I'll give you some pointers on the way up to Glencoe if you like...in return you can help me learn Spanish verbs!
In reply to Ali:
There's some rule of thumb on this in 'mountain navigation for runners', but I'm buggered if I can remember it.
There's some rule of thumb on this in 'mountain navigation for runners', but I'm buggered if I can remember it.
In reply to Wibble Wibble (and marie):
Sorry I didn't mean dont train at all, I meant dont worry over much about the training because it is still enjoyable running round the fells for two days with a mate no matter how fit you are/how well you do. What was it that person said, the best x y or z is the one who is having the most fun.
Agreed about the terrain. One year all the contours went one way and a I knackered the outside of my right ankle good and proper, so train on contours (especially with no paths as that is what you will be doing alot of)
Take your point about your knees marie,I would reccomend some sorbothane insoles for your shoes and get some inov8 shoes as they have more cushioning. also try to run off! paths whenever you can as the grass on the side will be better for your knees I would have thought.
Sorry I didn't mean dont train at all, I meant dont worry over much about the training because it is still enjoyable running round the fells for two days with a mate no matter how fit you are/how well you do. What was it that person said, the best x y or z is the one who is having the most fun.
Agreed about the terrain. One year all the contours went one way and a I knackered the outside of my right ankle good and proper, so train on contours (especially with no paths as that is what you will be doing alot of)
Take your point about your knees marie,I would reccomend some sorbothane insoles for your shoes and get some inov8 shoes as they have more cushioning. also try to run off! paths whenever you can as the grass on the side will be better for your knees I would have thought.
In reply to Ali:
Sorry yes, I meant in the lower classes where most people are there to finish rather than to compete. In the higher classes as everyone is closer in terms of fitness/ability a route choice like that would make the small percentage difference necessary to win.
I assumed most people here were doing the lower classes and I stand by my advice for these.
Sorry yes, I meant in the lower classes where most people are there to finish rather than to compete. In the higher classes as everyone is closer in terms of fitness/ability a route choice like that would make the small percentage difference necessary to win.
I assumed most people here were doing the lower classes and I stand by my advice for these.
In reply to Ali: My kids may be quarter Spanish but other than Una coca cola por favor... Im stuffed!
In reply to smithaldo: It's not my knees its Helens...
Im navigationally challenged
Helen is mobility challenged
What a team!
Im navigationally challenged
Helen is mobility challenged
What a team!
In reply to marie:
You will be fine as long as you remember what (I think it was) lance armstong's mum said to him when he was young:
"Pain is temporary..... Quitting lasts forever"
A maxim for these things if ever there was one.
(remember to take a little treat for tea to cheer you up)
You will be fine as long as you remember what (I think it was) lance armstong's mum said to him when he was young:
"Pain is temporary..... Quitting lasts forever"
A maxim for these things if ever there was one.
(remember to take a little treat for tea to cheer you up)
In reply to marie: Its ok, you don't have to know any spanish to test me...although if you're driving it could be a problem...
Danos: I'll have you know I have 21 years experience of running round with maps and there are probably hundreds of forests and moorlands I have successfully managed to get lost on... the main thing with nav is just getting used to the map and symbols anyway and being able to traslate what you see on the map to what is on the ground.
Danos: I'll have you know I have 21 years experience of running round with maps and there are probably hundreds of forests and moorlands I have successfully managed to get lost on... the main thing with nav is just getting used to the map and symbols anyway and being able to traslate what you see on the map to what is on the ground.
In reply to Ali:
A bit like learning Arabic then...
:oS
> (In reply to marie) the main thing with nav is just getting used to the map and symbols anyway and being able to traslate what you see on the map to what is on the ground.
A bit like learning Arabic then...
:oS
In reply to Ali: I really should have paid more attention on the school treasure hunts...
In reply to marie:
In response to the kimm v lamm questions they are both about the same but the lamm is IMHO better as it is usually nicer weather and less like the millenium stadium on FA cup final day.
In response to the kimm v lamm questions they are both about the same but the lamm is IMHO better as it is usually nicer weather and less like the millenium stadium on FA cup final day.
In reply to smithaldo: I would reccomend some sorbothane insoles for your shoes and get some inov8 shoes as they have more cushioning
I have orthotics and sorbothane insoles don't necessarily complement the ones I have now. I had some mudroc 290's which I loved. However they were the cause of the achilles tendonitis I had to hobble round the KIMM with....
I have orthotics and sorbothane insoles don't necessarily complement the ones I have now. I had some mudroc 290's which I loved. However they were the cause of the achilles tendonitis I had to hobble round the KIMM with....
In reply to helen taylor:
just as a precaution: is it a prerequisite of your marathon partners that they're able to carry you? it's just that I know you did the last couple with strapping great blokes, and ... er...
just as a precaution: is it a prerequisite of your marathon partners that they're able to carry you? it's just that I know you did the last couple with strapping great blokes, and ... er...
In reply to helen taylor:
Off to scotland for three days now so as a last thought get that new book, errr one foot in the clouds for some inspiration. Oh and as a last anecdote, we were in the newfield inn about four years ago when the Kimm was at the duddon valley and we were in the rucksack club hut on a meet. We were chatting to one of the elder members of the club (about 70/80 odd I think) about the race when he came out with the lines "ah yes, the weather''s bad, but not as bad as when I last did it". Thinking that would be years ago we asken when that was, he said "two years ago" then he said "I don't know if you are interested, but we won the first two".
Quality, and very humbling.
Off to scotland for three days now so as a last thought get that new book, errr one foot in the clouds for some inspiration. Oh and as a last anecdote, we were in the newfield inn about four years ago when the Kimm was at the duddon valley and we were in the rucksack club hut on a meet. We were chatting to one of the elder members of the club (about 70/80 odd I think) about the race when he came out with the lines "ah yes, the weather''s bad, but not as bad as when I last did it". Thinking that would be years ago we asken when that was, he said "two years ago" then he said "I don't know if you are interested, but we won the first two".
Quality, and very humbling.
In reply to Danos: Lol! No, I was only joking
In reply to Ali:
That's OK then! I'll have to brush up on my navigating skills tomorrow, don't want to get too lost!
That's OK then! I'll have to brush up on my navigating skills tomorrow, don't want to get too lost!
In reply to Danos: You're doing the event then? Enter a light green (or orange if you're not feeling confident) and enjoy
In reply to smithaldo:
Probably someone like Ted Dance or Mike Cuday. bloody hard walking men in the Rucksack.
I think Phillip Brockbank did a Marsden Edale in his 80s
Probably someone like Ted Dance or Mike Cuday. bloody hard walking men in the Rucksack.
I think Phillip Brockbank did a Marsden Edale in his 80s
In reply to John Rushby:
I don't remember doing a mountain marathon with you?!
> cool, i'm 5 foot 9 and reffered to as strapping.
I don't remember doing a mountain marathon with you?!
In reply to CJD: You don't have to be able to carry me. AndC actually tried pulling me up one hill with a bungee cord (he was told very clearly to put it away).
It seems to help if your name is Andrew/Andy though!
It seems to help if your name is Andrew/Andy though!
In reply to helen taylor:
Well done for entering and good luck!
have you looked at the Rat Race thing in Manchester on the 6th August?
you should get a team togeather for that looks like fun!
Sam x
Well done for entering and good luck!
have you looked at the Rat Race thing in Manchester on the 6th August?
you should get a team togeather for that looks like fun!
Sam x
In reply to John Rushby:
This may be true, but it's the one aspect of my performance which doesn't concern me for May...
I pressed the submit key in a moment of madness too!
> I have done the Saunders - he is crap and suffers from PE.
This may be true, but it's the one aspect of my performance which doesn't concern me for May...
I pressed the submit key in a moment of madness too!
In reply to smithaldo:
...except when going round is a better option. The trick is knowing which is better, and you won't get that in your first event.
I read somewhere a rule of thumb for working it out, the details of which I've naturally forgotten. But you work out how much farther the 'going round' option is by measuring the greatest right-angle distance between the straight line and the curve, which apparently approximates to the extra distance. You then count the contours to see how much ascent is involved is the up-and-over. And there's some 'rule' (which is obviously going to vary slightly from person to person) which relates the extra ascent to the extra distance and tells you which will be faster, unfortunately this is the bit that I can't remember
> Never go round, always go straight up and over.
...except when going round is a better option. The trick is knowing which is better, and you won't get that in your first event.
I read somewhere a rule of thumb for working it out, the details of which I've naturally forgotten. But you work out how much farther the 'going round' option is by measuring the greatest right-angle distance between the straight line and the curve, which apparently approximates to the extra distance. You then count the contours to see how much ascent is involved is the up-and-over. And there's some 'rule' (which is obviously going to vary slightly from person to person) which relates the extra ascent to the extra distance and tells you which will be faster, unfortunately this is the bit that I can't remember
In reply to Simon Caldwell:
In that little mountain navigation book it reckons that 1km extra is equivalent to 100m height gain ie if it measures 1km extra to contour but is only 50m extra height to go up and over go up and over. If it's 140m extra height then contour.
Other things affect this though. Sometimes contouring can be pretty tough going with lots of little gullies, heather etc. Sometimes there could be a good trod and it's rapid.
Whatever having an altimeter helps a lot.
> I read somewhere a rule of thumb for working it out, the details of which I've naturally forgotten.
In that little mountain navigation book it reckons that 1km extra is equivalent to 100m height gain ie if it measures 1km extra to contour but is only 50m extra height to go up and over go up and over. If it's 140m extra height then contour.
Other things affect this though. Sometimes contouring can be pretty tough going with lots of little gullies, heather etc. Sometimes there could be a good trod and it's rapid.
Whatever having an altimeter helps a lot.
In reply to Alii:
Sounds about right. I remember thinking that I'd generally take less time for the up-and-over that for the suggested equivalent straight line. I tend to go up hill faster than average but am slower than most on the flat.
Sounds about right. I remember thinking that I'd generally take less time for the up-and-over that for the suggested equivalent straight line. I tend to go up hill faster than average but am slower than most on the flat.
In reply to Simon Caldwell:
I think you have hit the nail on the head their simon, I think most people will actually be quicker going uphill than they think and thus up and over would be the right option. I stand by my point that this will be truer in the lower categories where you do not need to be as fit as for the higher categories
I think you have hit the nail on the head their simon, I think most people will actually be quicker going uphill than they think and thus up and over would be the right option. I stand by my point that this will be truer in the lower categories where you do not need to be as fit as for the higher categories
In reply to helen taylor: i'm going too now (lamm, d class). having never done one of these before, im about to ask a silly question: i assume the checkpoints have people standing about etc, ie they are fairly easy to spot and you dont need pinpoint navigation??
In reply to ceri:
most don't have people at them on the LAMM, they are netiher ridiculously easy nor hard to find, especially on D. You can not spot them from more than 10 metres away usually though, so your navigation (or following of other people on the camel train) needs to take you to the rough area.
most don't have people at them on the LAMM, they are netiher ridiculously easy nor hard to find, especially on D. You can not spot them from more than 10 metres away usually though, so your navigation (or following of other people on the camel train) needs to take you to the rough area.
In reply to smithaldo: cheers. just had the cunning plan of looking at the photo gallery on the lamm site. beginning to worry about what we've let ourselves in for...
In reply to ceri: Often depends on the weather - if the mist is down then you will need pinpoint navigation yes.
In reply to ceri: You do need fairly good navigation - down to 10m (if the weather is as bad as last year - blizzards!).
The checkpoints all have numbers on that must correspond to the list of checkpoints that you are given each day. One trick is that they often put several checkpoints close together so make sure you are going to the right one for your class.
Mike
The checkpoints all have numbers on that must correspond to the list of checkpoints that you are given each day. One trick is that they often put several checkpoints close together so make sure you are going to the right one for your class.
Mike
In reply to MJH: you signed up for this year Mike? You better not bring the bad weather with you.. it`s going to be hard enough to get round as it is.
In reply to ceri:
It's not that hard, don't worry about it, just treat it like a couple of days in the hills, not being at work, and spending a bit of time with a mate.
It's not that hard, don't worry about it, just treat it like a couple of days in the hills, not being at work, and spending a bit of time with a mate.
In reply to lummox: I can't unless I flog tickets to go and see U2 on Ebay (for vast profit), plus I missed the entry date for Saunders which I was going to do instead. Hopefully we will get a place in the KIMM this year.
In reply to lot of you:
Here's a map of the lamm last year (http://www.lamm.co.uk/2004/MapOfArea/MapOfArea.html ) - gives you an idea of where the planner thought the best route would go and where the winners went - the Karrimor had gone as far as having route boards up which told you which route choice was fastest and by how much but this doesn't appear to be on the site any more.
Again, like others have said it depends on terrain and your strengths/weaknesses. A good training tool is to plan a route and run the legs different ways to see how you fare both with the running, and working out the fastest way...
good luck and see you there!
Here's a map of the lamm last year (http://www.lamm.co.uk/2004/MapOfArea/MapOfArea.html ) - gives you an idea of where the planner thought the best route would go and where the winners went - the Karrimor had gone as far as having route boards up which told you which route choice was fastest and by how much but this doesn't appear to be on the site any more.
Again, like others have said it depends on terrain and your strengths/weaknesses. A good training tool is to plan a route and run the legs different ways to see how you fare both with the running, and working out the fastest way...
good luck and see you there!
OK, I've been through my kit list, and the main thing I need to get is a new sleeping bag. Anyone got any recommendations? I've been looking at things like the Rab Quantum 200, PHD Minimus, Kimmlite, then there's the ME Dewline, Vango Venom, Mountain Hardware Phantom, the list goes on and on.
I tend to sleep warm, but want something that's going to do me for the KIMM as well as the LAMM, and I'm not serious enough to be prepared to have a sleepless night due to the cold. It's impossible to compare different bags from the technical specs as all manufacturers seem to show temperatures differently - the Kimmlite, Quantum and Minimus have similar fill but are rated down to 0, 2 and 5 C respectively.
I tend to sleep warm, but want something that's going to do me for the KIMM as well as the LAMM, and I'm not serious enough to be prepared to have a sleepless night due to the cold. It's impossible to compare different bags from the technical specs as all manufacturers seem to show temperatures differently - the Kimmlite, Quantum and Minimus have similar fill but are rated down to 0, 2 and 5 C respectively.
In reply to Danos: Yes they bleedin well are - everyone apart from me seems to be doing it...
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