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Tommy Caldwell, fresh from his free team ascent of the Nose with his wife Beth Rodden, returned two days later and fired off a 12 hour ascent of the Free Nose leading all the pitches whilst belayed by his wife.
This is the second time that the Free Nose of El Capitan has been free'd in a day, the first time was of course by Lynn Hill in 1994. Lynn Hill had this to say at her blog about Tommy and Beth's ascent,
"It is great to hear that the Nose has had another free ascent. First of all, Tommy and Beth had the right state of mind, ability and desire to make it happen! I’ve heard many times, “Lynn could do the great roof because she has small fingers.” Tommy is missing....................
More at:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/
This is the second time that the Free Nose of El Capitan has been free'd in a day, the first time was of course by Lynn Hill in 1994. Lynn Hill had this to say at her blog about Tommy and Beth's ascent,
"It is great to hear that the Nose has had another free ascent. First of all, Tommy and Beth had the right state of mind, ability and desire to make it happen! I’ve heard many times, “Lynn could do the great roof because she has small fingers.” Tommy is missing....................
More at:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/
In reply to UKC News:
Anyone trainspotterish enough to be interested in the 'do small fingers help?' topic should take a look at this article by one L. Hill in 1994 .. see paragraph seven:
http://www.stanford.edu/~clint/yos/nosehill.htm
Anyone trainspotterish enough to be interested in the 'do small fingers help?' topic should take a look at this article by one L. Hill in 1994 .. see paragraph seven:
http://www.stanford.edu/~clint/yos/nosehill.htm
In reply to tobyfk:
She says small fingers were definitely an advantage but I would suspect that she would have found a way to do it even if she had bigger fingers. Ron Fawcett for example couldnt do the mono move on Revelations but contrived an (unrepeated?) alternative without it (maybe a bad example).
Not many people dimiss Seb's achievements for long reach, Dawes for natural talent etc. The small fingers thing seems to be one way for closet misogynists to deal with the fact that at the time she was probably the best and most accomplished climber in the States - male or female.
She says small fingers were definitely an advantage but I would suspect that she would have found a way to do it even if she had bigger fingers. Ron Fawcett for example couldnt do the mono move on Revelations but contrived an (unrepeated?) alternative without it (maybe a bad example).
Not many people dimiss Seb's achievements for long reach, Dawes for natural talent etc. The small fingers thing seems to be one way for closet misogynists to deal with the fact that at the time she was probably the best and most accomplished climber in the States - male or female.
In reply to Simon Lee:
Agreed. Have you ever heard such rubbish? Though not *that* well written, her autobiography was quite inspiring - even to a non-female. She clearly has bags of talent and, more importantly, the desire to succeed.
> The small fingers thing seems to be one way for closet misogynists to deal with the fact that at the time she was probably the best and most accomplished climber in the States - male or female.
Agreed. Have you ever heard such rubbish? Though not *that* well written, her autobiography was quite inspiring - even to a non-female. She clearly has bags of talent and, more importantly, the desire to succeed.
In reply to Simon Lee:
I always thought a misogynist was someone with an aversion to fermented soya but - having checked the dictionary: isn't that a little harsh? It is perfectly consistent to believe both that Lynn Hill is one of the most accomplished (inspirational, determined, etc) climbers of that, or any, time AND believe that she had some physical advantage on that pitch on the Nose, as she states herself in that article. Some might say that it's rather excessively PC to refute the latter ...
Speaking personally: the achievement that raises her to deity status for me is her effortless upstaging of Timmy O'Neill in the appalling recent 'Petzl Roctrip' video ... see Petzl website.
> The small fingers thing seems to be one way for closet misogynists to deal with the fact that at the time she was probably the best and most accomplished climber in the States - male or female.
I always thought a misogynist was someone with an aversion to fermented soya but - having checked the dictionary: isn't that a little harsh? It is perfectly consistent to believe both that Lynn Hill is one of the most accomplished (inspirational, determined, etc) climbers of that, or any, time AND believe that she had some physical advantage on that pitch on the Nose, as she states herself in that article. Some might say that it's rather excessively PC to refute the latter ...
Speaking personally: the achievement that raises her to deity status for me is her effortless upstaging of Timmy O'Neill in the appalling recent 'Petzl Roctrip' video ... see Petzl website.
In reply to tobyfk:
Not when people keep banging on about it for a decade
> (In reply to Simon Lee)
isn't that a little harsh?
Not when people keep banging on about it for a decade
In reply to Simon Lee:
It's come up a couple of times on this forum before as far as I know. Is that banging on? Given that The Nose is the most famous climb on the planet, and relative to the amount of verbiage about the grade of Three Pebble Slab or erosion at the Plantation ....
It's come up a couple of times on this forum before as far as I know. Is that banging on? Given that The Nose is the most famous climb on the planet, and relative to the amount of verbiage about the grade of Three Pebble Slab or erosion at the Plantation ....
In reply to Simon Lee:
Hi Simon,
Totally agree! Her attitude is an inspiration to everyone, everywhere - whatever they want to be good at.
Interesting to compare her unselfish supportiveness to Dave Cuthbertson on the roof route at Pabbay.
A wonderful lady.
Mick
> (In reply to tobyfk)
Hi Simon,
> She says small fingers were definitely an advantage but I would suspect that she would have found a way to do it even if she had bigger fingers.
Totally agree! Her attitude is an inspiration to everyone, everywhere - whatever they want to be good at.
Interesting to compare her unselfish supportiveness to Dave Cuthbertson on the roof route at Pabbay.
A wonderful lady.
Mick
In reply to tobyfk:
I think you are highlighting that is trivial and beside the point but at the same time churlish and demeaning.
Everyone has different advantages/talents that help in climbing such as finger strength, resistance to training injury, small fingers, balance, persistance, large fingers etc. The important thing is how you leverage these advantages/talents then apply them the challenges you choose and the successes achieved.
Lynn Hill's is a/the supreme example of this (and I havent even read her book)- small fingers - so what?
I think you are highlighting that is trivial and beside the point but at the same time churlish and demeaning.
Everyone has different advantages/talents that help in climbing such as finger strength, resistance to training injury, small fingers, balance, persistance, large fingers etc. The important thing is how you leverage these advantages/talents then apply them the challenges you choose and the successes achieved.
Lynn Hill's is a/the supreme example of this (and I havent even read her book)- small fingers - so what?
In reply to Simon Lee:
It is quite an unusual trait in top climbers to have small fingers......perhaps that is why people are 'banging on about it'.
Many of the top climbers have a long reach, ape index, high finger strength etc. but few of them apart from the smaller girlies have 'small fingers'. Hence it is a point that is mentioned and dwelt upon.
It is quite an unusual trait in top climbers to have small fingers......perhaps that is why people are 'banging on about it'.
Many of the top climbers have a long reach, ape index, high finger strength etc. but few of them apart from the smaller girlies have 'small fingers'. Hence it is a point that is mentioned and dwelt upon.
In reply to Simon Lee:
You seem oddly worked up about this, Simon? I think it is an interesting topic but I can't see the need to emotionalise it. I defer to you that you have been on the Nose and I haven't ... maybe I'd feel different if I'd imbibed the spiritual essence of the climb? As to highlighting the topic, surely Mick's done that in the way's he's edited his post at the start of this thread?
'a' rather than 'the' surely.
Over the last ten years there's been an explosion of free climbing on other routes on El Cap yet until last weekend the Nose had not been repeated free (unless you count Scott Burke's ascent). In the context of climbing as some sort of competive/ comparative activity it seems a pretty interesting question as to why that is the case? Is Lynn Hill 'better' than Alex Huber, Yuji Hirayama etc? If so, might she have gone on to free the Salathe after the Nose?
> I think you are highlighting that is trivial and beside the point but at the same time churlish and demeaning.
You seem oddly worked up about this, Simon? I think it is an interesting topic but I can't see the need to emotionalise it. I defer to you that you have been on the Nose and I haven't ... maybe I'd feel different if I'd imbibed the spiritual essence of the climb? As to highlighting the topic, surely Mick's done that in the way's he's edited his post at the start of this thread?
> Everyone has different advantages/talents that help in climbing such as finger strength, resistance to training injury, small fingers, balance, persistance, large fingers etc. The important thing is how you leverage these advantages/talents then apply them the challenges you choose and the successes achieved.
> Lynn Hill's is a/the supreme example of this (and I havent even read her book)-
> Lynn Hill's is a/the supreme example of this (and I havent even read her book)-
'a' rather than 'the' surely.
> small fingers - so what?
Over the last ten years there's been an explosion of free climbing on other routes on El Cap yet until last weekend the Nose had not been repeated free (unless you count Scott Burke's ascent). In the context of climbing as some sort of competive/ comparative activity it seems a pretty interesting question as to why that is the case? Is Lynn Hill 'better' than Alex Huber, Yuji Hirayama etc? If so, might she have gone on to free the Salathe after the Nose?
In reply to tobyfk:
Over the last ten years there's been an explosion of free climbing on other routes on El Cap yet until last weekend the Nose had not been repeated free (unless you count Scott Burke's ascent).
Interesting question - I get the impression that it hasn't been seriously attempted free by any of the main players -perhaps due to the perpetuation of the 'small fingers' myth making it seem like a 'trick' boulder problem that was not worth investing time in ? Perhaps because the Nose is too much in the public eye and too crowded ?. Be interesting to ask the main players. Will the floodgates now open ?
Over the last ten years there's been an explosion of free climbing on other routes on El Cap yet until last weekend the Nose had not been repeated free (unless you count Scott Burke's ascent).
Interesting question - I get the impression that it hasn't been seriously attempted free by any of the main players -perhaps due to the perpetuation of the 'small fingers' myth making it seem like a 'trick' boulder problem that was not worth investing time in ? Perhaps because the Nose is too much in the public eye and too crowded ?. Be interesting to ask the main players. Will the floodgates now open ?
In reply to Mick Ward:
Maybe they worked so well because as a team their average finger size was average.
I think Simon Lee is right: can you think of many top climbing acheivements with a silly excuse like this bolted on. I thought Nadin thought it would ge but he was too tired. Maybe Guedon Grooves in winter is down to not enough people having fat fingers!?
Maybe they worked so well because as a team their average finger size was average.
I think Simon Lee is right: can you think of many top climbing acheivements with a silly excuse like this bolted on. I thought Nadin thought it would ge but he was too tired. Maybe Guedon Grooves in winter is down to not enough people having fat fingers!?
In reply to Simon Lee:
Routes like this are also somewhat unique as, during any decent weather window, there will be crowds of relative punters aiding up the route whilst you are trying to work the moves free.
Routes like this are also somewhat unique as, during any decent weather window, there will be crowds of relative punters aiding up the route whilst you are trying to work the moves free.
In reply to Simon Lee:
I don't buy that especially. Most of the 'main players' must have done the Nose at some time or other, if not multiple times, and would surely have contemplated the free moves even if they were on aid?
> Interesting question - I get the impression that it hasn't been seriously attempted free by any of the main players -perhaps due to the perpetuation of the 'small fingers' myth making it seem like a 'trick' boulder problem that was not worth investing time in ?
I don't buy that especially. Most of the 'main players' must have done the Nose at some time or other, if not multiple times, and would surely have contemplated the free moves even if they were on aid?
In reply to tobyfk:
As someone who has redpointed you would also know that you only unlock sequences by seriously working moves as opposed to visually assessing them.
As someone who has redpointed you would also know that you only unlock sequences by seriously working moves as opposed to visually assessing them.
In reply to GrahamD:
As regards hoi-poloi getting in the way of the aristocrats, it doesn't seem to have stopped people trying the Salathe/Freerider. Somewhat the reverse perhaps, as the frequent fixed ropes in the upper section of these routes must seriously detract from the experience for the 98% doing ground-up punter's ascents. That and the infamous chopping of the fixed lines to Heart ledges this summer by a free Salathe aspirant who wanted to keep the riff-raff off his route whilst he worked it. Allegedly.
As to the apparent lack of male aspirants of the free version of "The World's Most Famous Rock-Climb". Iker Pou and Leo Holding looked at for long enough to be able to suggest 8b+, the grade Caldwell and Rodden gave it. The very hard sections on the Nose are quite short, I'd think it was the least sustained and the easiest El Cap routes to work after Freerider. Caldwell's amazing half-day ascent certainly suggests this. This makes it all the more fascinating why one of the obvious big boys has not seemingly had a serious go at it.
As regards hoi-poloi getting in the way of the aristocrats, it doesn't seem to have stopped people trying the Salathe/Freerider. Somewhat the reverse perhaps, as the frequent fixed ropes in the upper section of these routes must seriously detract from the experience for the 98% doing ground-up punter's ascents. That and the infamous chopping of the fixed lines to Heart ledges this summer by a free Salathe aspirant who wanted to keep the riff-raff off his route whilst he worked it. Allegedly.
As to the apparent lack of male aspirants of the free version of "The World's Most Famous Rock-Climb". Iker Pou and Leo Holding looked at for long enough to be able to suggest 8b+, the grade Caldwell and Rodden gave it. The very hard sections on the Nose are quite short, I'd think it was the least sustained and the easiest El Cap routes to work after Freerider. Caldwell's amazing half-day ascent certainly suggests this. This makes it all the more fascinating why one of the obvious big boys has not seemingly had a serious go at it.
In reply to duncan:
How long until we see a free solo of the Nose, would you say? Someone will do it.
jcm
How long until we see a free solo of the Nose, would you say? Someone will do it.
jcm
In reply to Anonymous:
or free onsight?!
or free onsight?!
In reply to Anonymous:
According to Mark S, soloing a 30m route is no different to soloing a 1000m one and as Alex Huber has soloed 8b+ I expect we'll hear it's been done next year.
I'll bet it gets done within my lifetime!
Serously, some nutter must be thinking about Freerider by now, at "only" 5.12d. Then again Astroman has had just the two solos ever and that's very easy in comparison.
According to Mark S, soloing a 30m route is no different to soloing a 1000m one and as Alex Huber has soloed 8b+ I expect we'll hear it's been done next year.
I'll bet it gets done within my lifetime!
Serously, some nutter must be thinking about Freerider by now, at "only" 5.12d. Then again Astroman has had just the two solos ever and that's very easy in comparison.
In reply to Anonymous: hasn't what's his name - ummm Potter, maybe Dean Potter - soloed a number of the El Cap free routes. I've seen pics of him with a rope tied to his back so he back ropes a few pitches - but most is just straight soloing. Looked pretty mad to me!
In reply to TobyA:
He soloed the Nose very quickly, sure, but pulling on stuff as appropriate. I'm not saying I'd fancy it, but it's a very much easier proposition.
jcm
He soloed the Nose very quickly, sure, but pulling on stuff as appropriate. I'm not saying I'd fancy it, but it's a very much easier proposition.
jcm
In reply to Simon Lee:
Hmmmm. But we are not talking about limestone are we? I would have thought a crack and big-feature orientated route like the Nose would be fairly easy to assess?
> As someone who has redpointed you would also know that you only unlock sequences by seriously working moves as opposed to visually assessing them.
Hmmmm. But we are not talking about limestone are we? I would have thought a crack and big-feature orientated route like the Nose would be fairly easy to assess?
In reply to tobyfk:
How did I know you would come back with that ? (anoraks at dawn between speculating punters)
How did I know you would come back with that ? (anoraks at dawn between speculating punters)
In reply to Chocolate Mousse:
Timmy O'Neil. I believe even his fans regard his humour as fairly hit-and-miss.
> Who is that c*nt who talks shite for the majority of the clip?!
Timmy O'Neil. I believe even his fans regard his humour as fairly hit-and-miss.
In reply to tobyfk:
They've done better videos, but there were a couple of hits I actually did laugh at him brushing Lynn Hill while she bouldered...
Someone needs to tell him that 'less is sometimes more' though.
> Timmy O'Neil. I believe even his fans regard his humour as fairly hit-and-miss.
They've done better videos, but there were a couple of hits I actually did laugh at him brushing Lynn Hill while she bouldered...
Someone needs to tell him that 'less is sometimes more' though.
In reply to The Crow:
Agreed. Though the key to the joke is that the great woman can continue to crank V7 regardless.
> (In reply to tobyfk)
> [...]
>
> They've done better videos, but there were a couple of hits I actually did laugh at him brushing Lynn Hill while she bouldered...
> [...]
>
> They've done better videos, but there were a couple of hits I actually did laugh at him brushing Lynn Hill while she bouldered...
Agreed. Though the key to the joke is that the great woman can continue to crank V7 regardless.
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