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...please.
I prefer delecate routes to the thuggy stuff.
I prefer delecate routes to the thuggy stuff.
In reply to featuresforfeet: if you're not keen on being sandbagged try a former vs on Burbage nth - Knights Move, it's ver nice, can't remember it being strenuous
In reply to Eamonn:
I've seconded Knights Move and really enjoyed it - it's one I have in mind for when I am feeling a bit brave (only lead S at the moment!)
I've seconded Knights Move and really enjoyed it - it's one I have in mind for when I am feeling a bit brave (only lead S at the moment!)
In reply to featuresforfeet:
At Stanage:
Namenlos - E1 5a going on HVS in real money.
Fina - HVS 5a - not slabby but more delicate than thuggy - top route - about three cruxes. Hard but v v good.
At Froggatt:
CMC Slab and Sundowner (with siderunner)
At Stanage:
Namenlos - E1 5a going on HVS in real money.
Fina - HVS 5a - not slabby but more delicate than thuggy - top route - about three cruxes. Hard but v v good.
At Froggatt:
CMC Slab and Sundowner (with siderunner)
In reply to JonC:
But don't fall off the top.
How 'bout:
Autumn Arete
Chequers Buttress
Froggat Valkyrie
Gt Portland St
Queersville
>
> Namenlos - E1 5a going on HVS in real money.
>
> Namenlos - E1 5a going on HVS in real money.
>
But don't fall off the top.
How 'bout:
Autumn Arete
Chequers Buttress
Froggat Valkyrie
Gt Portland St
Queersville
In reply to Rid Skwerr:
Seconded Chequers Buttress - quite fancy that, though if you came off the prow you'd hit the ramp, no?
Seconded Chequers Buttress - quite fancy that, though if you came off the prow you'd hit the ramp, no?
In reply to featuresforfeet:
The problem is that delicate slabby routes tend to be a bit bolder.
How about Meringue and Tyrone at lawrencefield, Tody's Wall at Froggatt, Right fin (some say it's a boulder problem though) at Burbage North and, of course, Knights Move.
The problem is that delicate slabby routes tend to be a bit bolder.
How about Meringue and Tyrone at lawrencefield, Tody's Wall at Froggatt, Right fin (some say it's a boulder problem though) at Burbage North and, of course, Knights Move.
In reply to featuresforfeet:
I don't think so. I seem to remember a big wire high up before you reach across. Maybe I was just blissfuly unaware.
I don't think so. I seem to remember a big wire high up before you reach across. Maybe I was just blissfuly unaware.
In reply to featuresforfeet:
No, bomber nut high up for the crux reach out to the arete. Easy from there onwards. Quite reachy but it's piss if you're tall. Very good route.
No, bomber nut high up for the crux reach out to the arete. Easy from there onwards. Quite reachy but it's piss if you're tall. Very good route.
In reply to featuresforfeet:
My first was Jonad's Rib at Birchen (softest touch HVS in the world) and I'm definitely a delicate routes person.
My second was Tody's Wall - ok so there is one thuggy move - but it's worth it and it's a hell of a route.
ET1
My first was Jonad's Rib at Birchen (softest touch HVS in the world) and I'm definitely a delicate routes person.
My second was Tody's Wall - ok so there is one thuggy move - but it's worth it and it's a hell of a route.
ET1
In reply to alj:
Seconded that once and got stuck on that f*cking block for a good 10 minutes trying to turn myself inside out. Since seen someone do it properly.
I think either that or Chequers Buttress are looking like prime candidates.
> My second was Tody's Wall
Seconded that once and got stuck on that f*cking block for a good 10 minutes trying to turn myself inside out. Since seen someone do it properly.
I think either that or Chequers Buttress are looking like prime candidates.
In reply to featuresforfeet:
I know it's been said before, but 'Knights Move' on Burbage Sth has to be a real contender!
Luv Barra! xx
I know it's been said before, but 'Knights Move' on Burbage Sth has to be a real contender!
Luv Barra! xx
In reply to alj:
It's great fun but not really typical HVS. One to do for the entertainment factor when there's a good sized group to laugh at you on the block. Much harder for short people too.
There was a thread about this recently - think Tower Face was reckoned to be a good one to do.
It's great fun but not really typical HVS. One to do for the entertainment factor when there's a good sized group to laugh at you on the block. Much harder for short people too.
There was a thread about this recently - think Tower Face was reckoned to be a good one to do.
In reply to featuresforfeet: Sundowner with the side runner as has already been sugested; just trust yourself to go for it on the step up to the finnishing slab then its nice pocket/ positive edge pulling from there.
I'd recomend Short Slab at Curbar as a good warm up first except that its probably rather green still in its first (and crux) half.
Sunset Slab is a good first HVS (nudge, nudge, wink wink...) solo as there is no move harder than 4b on it. Should alos help to get your brain in gear for Sundowner.
CMC Slab I found much harder (though certainly better protected).
Finnaly if you can do Sundowner and CMC Slab then you are more than ready for TPS.
I'd recomend Short Slab at Curbar as a good warm up first except that its probably rather green still in its first (and crux) half.
Sunset Slab is a good first HVS (nudge, nudge, wink wink...) solo as there is no move harder than 4b on it. Should alos help to get your brain in gear for Sundowner.
CMC Slab I found much harder (though certainly better protected).
Finnaly if you can do Sundowner and CMC Slab then you are more than ready for TPS.
In reply to Rid Skwerr:
Or even April?
Green Streak at Stanage or Knight's Move are bot utterly piss at the grade. As is Sunset Slab, unless you fall off, of course.
jcm
Or even April?
Green Streak at Stanage or Knight's Move are bot utterly piss at the grade. As is Sunset Slab, unless you fall off, of course.
jcm
In reply to featuresforfeet:
Go to Burbage North and do The Chant, Knights Move and Right Fin. All of them are borderline VS/HVS, but do all three and you'll have earned yourself at least one tick !!
On Stanage, Lanacshire Buttress is easier than Queersville, Tower Face easier than Fina.
Millstone - Lyons Corner House Direct and April Arete
Lawrencefield - Great Harry amd Meringue (but not Gingerbread, which is definitely only VS)
Go to Burbage North and do The Chant, Knights Move and Right Fin. All of them are borderline VS/HVS, but do all three and you'll have earned yourself at least one tick !!
On Stanage, Lanacshire Buttress is easier than Queersville, Tower Face easier than Fina.
Millstone - Lyons Corner House Direct and April Arete
Lawrencefield - Great Harry amd Meringue (but not Gingerbread, which is definitely only VS)
In reply to featuresforfeet:
You can lace it up with bomber nuts. Totally safe.
> (In reply to Rid Skwerr)
>
> Seconded Chequers Buttress - quite fancy that, though if you came off the prow you'd hit the ramp, no?
>
> Seconded Chequers Buttress - quite fancy that, though if you came off the prow you'd hit the ramp, no?
You can lace it up with bomber nuts. Totally safe.
In reply to Anonymous:
Nope. Tis August. Next to Telli.
In the same vein(ish), Herringbone Slab at Wimberry.
> (In reply to Rid Skwerr)
>
> Or even April?
>
> Or even April?
Nope. Tis August. Next to Telli.
> Green Streak
In the same vein(ish), Herringbone Slab at Wimberry.
In reply to Rid Skwerr:
OK.
Are you taking the piddle? Strenuous and full on at the grade.
Again, not an easy one IMHO.
Nasty start! You really are having a laugh aren't you.
I'd say:
Sundowner at Froggatt with a side runner. (Easy E2 without)
CMC Slab at Froggatt, with runners in Heather Wall. (E2ish without)
Gingerbread and Great Harry at Lawrencefield. (HVS in Froggatt guide)
Agony Crack at Stanage.
Pedlar's Arete at Stanage. (inexplicably up to E1 in new Stanage guide)
G
> Chequers Buttress
OK.
> Froggat Valkyrie
Are you taking the piddle? Strenuous and full on at the grade.
> Gt Portland St
Again, not an easy one IMHO.
> Queersville
Nasty start! You really are having a laugh aren't you.
I'd say:
Sundowner at Froggatt with a side runner. (Easy E2 without)
CMC Slab at Froggatt, with runners in Heather Wall. (E2ish without)
Gingerbread and Great Harry at Lawrencefield. (HVS in Froggatt guide)
Agony Crack at Stanage.
Pedlar's Arete at Stanage. (inexplicably up to E1 in new Stanage guide)
G
In reply to Graham:
Is it just me, or is that move off the rib on Queersville really quite hard - more like 5b? Took me a couple of attempts to get it right and the reach higher up felt piss in comparison...
Is it just me, or is that move off the rib on Queersville really quite hard - more like 5b? Took me a couple of attempts to get it right and the reach higher up felt piss in comparison...
In reply to Rid Skwerr:
Or of course April, on Millstone. Or even Apple, on Gardoms.
In reply to Graham:
Pedlar's Arete E1? You're having a giraffe, surely?
jcm
Or of course April, on Millstone. Or even Apple, on Gardoms.
In reply to Graham:
Pedlar's Arete E1? You're having a giraffe, surely?
jcm
1
In reply to Andy Hobson:
No it's not just you. I thought getting into the scoopy-niche to be hard, and a worrying height above the floor.
G
No it's not just you. I thought getting into the scoopy-niche to be hard, and a worrying height above the floor.
G
In reply to Anonymous:
I kid you not, and Greengrocer's Wall is now E1! This is THE BMC GUIDE we are talking about.
G
> In reply to Graham:
>
> Pedlar's Arete E1? You're having a giraffe, surely?
>
> jcm
>
> Pedlar's Arete E1? You're having a giraffe, surely?
>
> jcm
I kid you not, and Greengrocer's Wall is now E1! This is THE BMC GUIDE we are talking about.
G
In reply to featuresforfeet:
At Stanage, Lancashire Wall is easy for the grade, as is Townsends Variation if you can do bold. Tower Face is well-protected and fits your likes, although I wouldnt say it was that low in the grade, certainly HVS anyway. Retroversion (by Inverted V) is quite soft.
At Froggatt, Tody's Wall and Sunset Slab (this is only at all difficult because of its reputation, there are much harder HVS solos out there), and if you can manage a strenuous one, Pedestal Crack is quite low on the grade I reckon.
I wouldnt recommend anything at Millstone, especially not Great Portland Street! (hard 5b then steep sustained 5a is not my definition of easy HVS even if it is very well protected).
At Burbage you have Knights Move and The Chant, but youre only kissig yourself o those really Im afraid. Having said that if you get your confidence up on them theres one there called Rainmaker which is quite tough for the grade. Take a small cam, friend 0 or so.
At Stanage, Lancashire Wall is easy for the grade, as is Townsends Variation if you can do bold. Tower Face is well-protected and fits your likes, although I wouldnt say it was that low in the grade, certainly HVS anyway. Retroversion (by Inverted V) is quite soft.
At Froggatt, Tody's Wall and Sunset Slab (this is only at all difficult because of its reputation, there are much harder HVS solos out there), and if you can manage a strenuous one, Pedestal Crack is quite low on the grade I reckon.
I wouldnt recommend anything at Millstone, especially not Great Portland Street! (hard 5b then steep sustained 5a is not my definition of easy HVS even if it is very well protected).
At Burbage you have Knights Move and The Chant, but youre only kissig yourself o those really Im afraid. Having said that if you get your confidence up on them theres one there called Rainmaker which is quite tough for the grade. Take a small cam, friend 0 or so.
In reply to Si dH:
kidding, of course
kidding, of course
In reply to featuresforfeet:
Blimey, you're speeding through, thought you were pushing VS? :-p Although that's only what you said, you looked more than comfortable on slimey old Old Lag's Corner!
Blimey, you're speeding through, thought you were pushing VS? :-p Although that's only what you said, you looked more than comfortable on slimey old Old Lag's Corner!
In reply to D Berry:
Really? with you on the pro - but a harder climb? Sure i shit it on the lead on that route - but its one crux move at the top with the pocket....??
..hang on - yeah - its a bit thin i remember now !!
;0)
Si
> (In reply to featuresforfeet)
> Short Slab at Curbar
> Sunset Slab
Sundowner.
> Sunset Slab
>
> CMC Slab I found much harder (though certainly better protected).
>
>
Really? with you on the pro - but a harder climb? Sure i shit it on the lead on that route - but its one crux move at the top with the pocket....??
..hang on - yeah - its a bit thin i remember now !!
;0)
Si
In reply to Andy Hobson:
You mean left and up after the initial bit?
Don't think it was 5b, wasn't strenuous, just a little bit delicate.
I think it is a little thought provoking because you only have that rubbish gear in at the top of the rib (or at least I didn't think it was very good), where as the gear for /the move' higher up has much better gear.
Lovely route in any case
You mean left and up after the initial bit?
Don't think it was 5b, wasn't strenuous, just a little bit delicate.
I think it is a little thought provoking because you only have that rubbish gear in at the top of the rib (or at least I didn't think it was very good), where as the gear for /the move' higher up has much better gear.
Lovely route in any case
In reply to Anonymous:
Sodding desperate and dangerous, you pillock.
http://www.rockfax.com/databases/results_route.html?id=1049
G
> (In reply to featuresforfeet)
>
> The Rainmaker at Burbage North - next to TKM.
>
> The Rainmaker at Burbage North - next to TKM.
Sodding desperate and dangerous, you pillock.
http://www.rockfax.com/databases/results_route.html?id=1049
G
In reply to featuresforfeet:
Ah, it's the weekly appearance of the peak HVS thread; bang on time.
I'll just turn on the response-o-matic:
JUST - DO - THE - KNIGHTS - MOVE - AT - BURBAGE - NORTH - STOP - ITS - LOW - IN - THE - GRADE - STOP
Ah, it's the weekly appearance of the peak HVS thread; bang on time.
I'll just turn on the response-o-matic:
JUST - DO - THE - KNIGHTS - MOVE - AT - BURBAGE - NORTH - STOP - ITS - LOW - IN - THE - GRADE - STOP
In reply to Graham:
Its not desperate or dangerous as long as you have the right gear (a zero 5 and a slightly dodgy walnut 1 I had in for the hard bit), and if you dont its very easy to reverse to the ground when you realise. But its not easy for the grade.
Its not desperate or dangerous as long as you have the right gear (a zero 5 and a slightly dodgy walnut 1 I had in for the hard bit), and if you dont its very easy to reverse to the ground when you realise. But its not easy for the grade.
In reply to Jamie B.:
Its not in the grade.
Its not in the grade.
In reply to MeMeMe:
Perhaps not 5b but tough for 5a. It gave me some trouble - the next route I led was Easter Rib and that was pish in comparison. I wasn't convinced by the gear higher up either. You get those nuts behind the flake and a friend which I placed blind but that's well down when you mantle. It just seemed best not to fall off. My point still stands anyway; not a good first HVS.
Perhaps not 5b but tough for 5a. It gave me some trouble - the next route I led was Easter Rib and that was pish in comparison. I wasn't convinced by the gear higher up either. You get those nuts behind the flake and a friend which I placed blind but that's well down when you mantle. It just seemed best not to fall off. My point still stands anyway; not a good first HVS.
In reply to Andy Hobson:
I found the move on Queersville to be the definite crux, significantly harder tha nthe reach and mantyel higher up, but not sure about 5b.
It is also well-protected IF you take a long time getting the gear right - I had a pretty bomber walnut 2 in the top of the flake but it took me a good 10 minutes to fiddle it in to my satisfaction. Would have backed off without it, a fall from there would be nasty.
I found the move on Queersville to be the definite crux, significantly harder tha nthe reach and mantyel higher up, but not sure about 5b.
It is also well-protected IF you take a long time getting the gear right - I had a pretty bomber walnut 2 in the top of the flake but it took me a good 10 minutes to fiddle it in to my satisfaction. Would have backed off without it, a fall from there would be nasty.
In reply to Si dH:
I stand by my opinion, especially considering the title of the thread: "First grit HVS recommendations..."
I may not have found the easiest sequence, obviously, but I did it when I was climbing well (for me), and around the same time I did Dry Rot, which didn't feel that much harder.
What is a Zero 5?
G
I stand by my opinion, especially considering the title of the thread: "First grit HVS recommendations..."
I may not have found the easiest sequence, obviously, but I did it when I was climbing well (for me), and around the same time I did Dry Rot, which didn't feel that much harder.
What is a Zero 5?
G
In reply to Andy Hobson:
haha ! Fkn desp for HVS - sorts people out tho -
jams - thats whats its all about - people can't jam anymore...
climbing walls - a lot to answer for!
;0)
> (In reply to Simon)
>
> There's an idea, what about Terrazza Crack??
>
> There's an idea, what about Terrazza Crack??
haha ! Fkn desp for HVS - sorts people out tho -
jams - thats whats its all about - people can't jam anymore...
climbing walls - a lot to answer for!
;0)
In reply to Simon:
Sure i shit it on the lead on that route - but its one crux move at the top with the pocket....??
I fell of the top, there's 3 pockets and i picked a shit one stepped my feet up and got bunched up and stuck. Long enough to yell take and have a good think about the gear before peeling off. Quite a good lob IIRC.
Sure i shit it on the lead on that route - but its one crux move at the top with the pocket....??
>
> ..hang on - yeah - its a bit thin i remember now !!
>
> ;0)
>
> Si
> ..hang on - yeah - its a bit thin i remember now !!
>
> ;0)
>
> Si
I fell of the top, there's 3 pockets and i picked a shit one stepped my feet up and got bunched up and stuck. Long enough to yell take and have a good think about the gear before peeling off. Quite a good lob IIRC.
In reply to Simon:
Actually David is rather hard by butch crackery. An effeminate yet swift layback approach is much the easiest, for some reason. It really is totally piss for the grade by this method.
jcm
Actually David is rather hard by butch crackery. An effeminate yet swift layback approach is much the easiest, for some reason. It really is totally piss for the grade by this method.
jcm
In reply to Swirly:
lol - good man swirls - it was a thin old move & all you do is wanna go for the crack & be safe...
..the adrenaline & fear after that route saw me puking my ring up in the Chequres after - what more could you expect!!
;0)
lol - good man swirls - it was a thin old move & all you do is wanna go for the crack & be safe...
..the adrenaline & fear after that route saw me puking my ring up in the Chequres after - what more could you expect!!
;0)
In reply to Simon: Yeah the problem was by that point the crack is the other side of the slab. I fell off the top of portfolio on Saturday too, seems to be becoming a habit!
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
its hard to protect - albeit with the chock - but if laybacking aint your bag its gonna feel hard ..
i loved it - about 3 layback moves that are slightly off kilter - brill!
;0)
si
its hard to protect - albeit with the chock - but if laybacking aint your bag its gonna feel hard ..
i loved it - about 3 layback moves that are slightly off kilter - brill!
;0)
si
In reply to Andy Hobson:
I agree with that; a bit too exciting for your first.
Has anyone suggested overhanging groove at Almscliff yet?
> (In reply to MeMeMe)
>
> It just seemed best not to fall off. My point still stands anyway; not a good first HVS.
>
> It just seemed best not to fall off. My point still stands anyway; not a good first HVS.
I agree with that; a bit too exciting for your first.
Has anyone suggested overhanging groove at Almscliff yet?
In reply to MeMeMe: What's OG like, was considering it for my next trip up that way (next weekend) for some reason, prbably stupidity, I used to think it was VS!
In reply to Simon:
It is pretty hard to protect, the chock is pretty low down and won't do you much good when it matters. You can get a cam in the break higher up, but you are practically at the top then and it would be easy to slip of the layback move while placing it.
It might not be technically hard but I'd be tempted to go for something harder but better protected as a first HVS.
It is pretty hard to protect, the chock is pretty low down and won't do you much good when it matters. You can get a cam in the break higher up, but you are practically at the top then and it would be easy to slip of the layback move while placing it.
It might not be technically hard but I'd be tempted to go for something harder but better protected as a first HVS.
In reply to Swirly:
It's low in the grade (not sure but it might of been VS in the old guide).
Bottom move or two is a bit polished, then steady moves until the bit ledgey bit at halfway. The crux is just after that but won't spoil it for you by giving any more beta.
It's a very worthwhile route, get yourself on it!
I think I actually find Z-climb (the VS on the same face) harder than OG!
It's low in the grade (not sure but it might of been VS in the old guide).
Bottom move or two is a bit polished, then steady moves until the bit ledgey bit at halfway. The crux is just after that but won't spoil it for you by giving any more beta.
It's a very worthwhile route, get yourself on it!
I think I actually find Z-climb (the VS on the same face) harder than OG!
In reply to MeMeMe: Cheers, will have a go, weather permitting, that's pretty much all the beta the guide gives. looks like another one I ould lob off the top then
In reply to Swirly: Some good introductory grit HVS's would be
Roof Route at Rivelin, one move bomber gear not hard.
The Vice, Stanage easy but sustained with the bonus of more gear placements than you can shake a stick at.
Terezza Crack, steady at the grade, no surpises.
Chequers crack, just follow the chalk.
Kelly's Overhang, good value.
The unprintable, looks worse than it is, just get stuck in.
Roof Route at Rivelin, one move bomber gear not hard.
The Vice, Stanage easy but sustained with the bonus of more gear placements than you can shake a stick at.
Terezza Crack, steady at the grade, no surpises.
Chequers crack, just follow the chalk.
Kelly's Overhang, good value.
The unprintable, looks worse than it is, just get stuck in.
In reply to sloper:
Thats not going to work - Captain sandbagger General...
..the vice HVS - do one!
Ha ha - yeah Chequers crack - nice intro to HVS!!
you slag!
Thats not going to work - Captain sandbagger General...
..the vice HVS - do one!
Ha ha - yeah Chequers crack - nice intro to HVS!!
you slag!
In reply to Simon: don't be a wuss.
In reply to sloper:
take me up Chequres crack then - no bugger ever wants to do it!
...wonder why - looks a great line...
si
take me up Chequres crack then - no bugger ever wants to do it!
...wonder why - looks a great line...
si
In reply to featuresforfeet: Chequers crack
In reply to featuresforfeet: Try the Blurter at High Neb. Quite solid for the grade and requires careful ropework but a great route.
In reply to featuresforfeet:
Is there no grit other than in the Peak?
Am I mad to look at the Sole at Crooksrise and think it doable as my first grit HVS in 20 years?
Is there no grit other than in the Peak?
Am I mad to look at the Sole at Crooksrise and think it doable as my first grit HVS in 20 years?
In reply to sloper:
LOL
UNprintable is considered hard E1, no? It certainly looks it. Those sort of sandbags will only work until the victim actually looks at the route...
LOL
UNprintable is considered hard E1, no? It certainly looks it. Those sort of sandbags will only work until the victim actually looks at the route...
In reply to featuresforfeet: My theory for going up a grade has always been to pick something well protected so you're not actually scared of falling off.
I think my first quarried grit HVS was Parkers Eliminate at Hobson Moor. Nice climbing, fingery rather than thuggy, but well protected. I think my first natural grit HVS was Saul's Crack at the Roaches. It has one hard move over a little bulge but the rest is rather pleasent and well protected crack climbing. If I have to be completely unimaginative and pick a route at the Froggat/Stanage fleshpots, I'd say Pedestal Crack at Froggat. Well protected crack climbing again. Fingery as I remember rather than and butch hand/fist jamming stuff.
Everybody always says the Knight's Move is piss, but I thought it was relatively hard - definitely harder for me than those mentioned above. So take those popular opinions with a pinch of salt. Also similar for Sunset Slab. This is a solo and when I tried it onsight I decided I wasn't going to risk killing myself for a rather unimportant little outcrop route, if you are going to do silly things there are far finer parts of the world and much better cliffs than Froggat to take those risks on! Tody's wall is fun and there is only one hard move, but it is quite a strange and hard move.
I can't even remember the name, but at Gardom's a bit right of the Apple Arete (which is a huge letdown by the way - really nothing special at all) there is a little quarried bay. There is an HVS there that is easy, short, protectable and few little fingery pulls and that's it.
I think my first quarried grit HVS was Parkers Eliminate at Hobson Moor. Nice climbing, fingery rather than thuggy, but well protected. I think my first natural grit HVS was Saul's Crack at the Roaches. It has one hard move over a little bulge but the rest is rather pleasent and well protected crack climbing. If I have to be completely unimaginative and pick a route at the Froggat/Stanage fleshpots, I'd say Pedestal Crack at Froggat. Well protected crack climbing again. Fingery as I remember rather than and butch hand/fist jamming stuff.
Everybody always says the Knight's Move is piss, but I thought it was relatively hard - definitely harder for me than those mentioned above. So take those popular opinions with a pinch of salt. Also similar for Sunset Slab. This is a solo and when I tried it onsight I decided I wasn't going to risk killing myself for a rather unimportant little outcrop route, if you are going to do silly things there are far finer parts of the world and much better cliffs than Froggat to take those risks on! Tody's wall is fun and there is only one hard move, but it is quite a strange and hard move.
I can't even remember the name, but at Gardom's a bit right of the Apple Arete (which is a huge letdown by the way - really nothing special at all) there is a little quarried bay. There is an HVS there that is easy, short, protectable and few little fingery pulls and that's it.
In reply to TobyA:
Quite a big "bulge" (or should that be small roof...) Id have said! Still, its refreshing to hear someone agree that the rest is easy and that roof is 'ard!
> I think my first natural grit HVS was Saul's Crack at the Roaches. It has one hard move over a little bulge but the rest is rather pleasent and well protected crack climbing.
Quite a big "bulge" (or should that be small roof...) Id have said! Still, its refreshing to hear someone agree that the rest is easy and that roof is 'ard!
In reply to Si dH:
If the OP can get himself up to Kinder North, Legacy is a lovely route and not too hard for the grade. Well-protected all the way again.
If the OP can get himself up to Kinder North, Legacy is a lovely route and not too hard for the grade. Well-protected all the way again.
In reply to Si dH:
It's rather small in comparison to say The Sloth that I had recently fallen off seconding! I believe on Saul's I did heel hook though which is always retrospectively exciting.
> Quite a big "bulge" (or should that be small roof...) Id have said! Still, its refreshing to hear someone agree that the rest is easy and that roof is 'ard!
It's rather small in comparison to say The Sloth that I had recently fallen off seconding! I believe on Saul's I did heel hook though which is always retrospectively exciting.
In reply to TobyA:
Definitly agree here, The Chant for instance is a much easier HVS at Burbage.
Also similar for Sunset Slab. This is a solo and when I tried it onsight I decided I wasn't going to risk killing myself for a rather unimportant little outcrop route, if you are going to do silly things there are far finer parts of the world and much better cliffs than Froggat to take those risks on!
More than a little harsh, its a great route and where other than the Roaches are there better grit slabs? And you'd have to try hard to kill your self on it, broken ankles thats a different thing mind...
>
> Everybody always says the Knight's Move is piss, but I thought it was relatively hard - definitely harder for me than those mentioned above. So take those popular opinions with a pinch of salt.
> Everybody always says the Knight's Move is piss, but I thought it was relatively hard - definitely harder for me than those mentioned above. So take those popular opinions with a pinch of salt.
Definitly agree here, The Chant for instance is a much easier HVS at Burbage.
Also similar for Sunset Slab. This is a solo and when I tried it onsight I decided I wasn't going to risk killing myself for a rather unimportant little outcrop route, if you are going to do silly things there are far finer parts of the world and much better cliffs than Froggat to take those risks on!
More than a little harsh, its a great route and where other than the Roaches are there better grit slabs? And you'd have to try hard to kill your self on it, broken ankles thats a different thing mind...
In reply to featuresforfeet:
Croton Oil at Rivelin is a great HVS IMO, great gear, nice moves, not too strenuous and yout get to top out on a propper summit. Would be a really good memorable first one I'd say.
Croton Oil at Rivelin is a great HVS IMO, great gear, nice moves, not too strenuous and yout get to top out on a propper summit. Would be a really good memorable first one I'd say.
In reply to Duncan Disorderly:
Also not a great fors tone since its quite tough, takes soem working out and the top flake is scarily loose. I found Blizzard Ridge easier actually, and also better so Im tempted to recommend that, but since a lot of people think its E1 (god knows why) I wont.
Also not a great fors tone since its quite tough, takes soem working out and the top flake is scarily loose. I found Blizzard Ridge easier actually, and also better so Im tempted to recommend that, but since a lot of people think its E1 (god knows why) I wont.
In reply to Duncan Disorderly:
Croton Oil is a brilliant route, but the unprotected offwidth start is not the sort of gentle lead in I'd want for my first HVS lead !
Croton Oil is a brilliant route, but the unprotected offwidth start is not the sort of gentle lead in I'd want for my first HVS lead !
In reply to Andy Hobson:
There is nothing on Queersville above middling 5a however, the position of the gear as you move away from the rib makes the moves feel more comitting and harder than they really are.
> Is it just me, or is that move off the rib on Queersville really quite hard - more like 5b?
There is nothing on Queersville above middling 5a however, the position of the gear as you move away from the rib makes the moves feel more comitting and harder than they really are.
In reply to MeMeMe:
It looks a great line but I was put off by it's P2 rating. There is not much evidence of gear higher up. I found Demon Wall scary enough and that is given P1. Is the P2 rating deserved.
In reply to Andy Hobson
Knights Move was my first peak HVS and I thought it was good but a long way to the first bit of gear.
> (In reply to Andy Hobson)
> [...]
>
> I agree with that; a bit too exciting for your first.
>
>
> Has anyone suggested overhanging groove at Almscliff yet?
> [...]
>
> I agree with that; a bit too exciting for your first.
>
>
> Has anyone suggested overhanging groove at Almscliff yet?
It looks a great line but I was put off by it's P2 rating. There is not much evidence of gear higher up. I found Demon Wall scary enough and that is given P1. Is the P2 rating deserved.
In reply to Andy Hobson
Knights Move was my first peak HVS and I thought it was good but a long way to the first bit of gear.
In reply to Shaw Brown:
Yes it is run out at the top, but it's got gear where it counts. P2 is fair.
Demon wall is much harder, if you can get up Demon Wall you should be fine on OG (I fell off Demon wall and was fine on OG, although now I think about it I had seconded OG before I led it).
>
> It looks a great line but I was put off by it's P2 rating. There is not much evidence of gear higher up. I found Demon Wall scary enough and that is given P1. Is the P2 rating deserved.
> It looks a great line but I was put off by it's P2 rating. There is not much evidence of gear higher up. I found Demon Wall scary enough and that is given P1. Is the P2 rating deserved.
Yes it is run out at the top, but it's got gear where it counts. P2 is fair.
Demon wall is much harder, if you can get up Demon Wall you should be fine on OG (I fell off Demon wall and was fine on OG, although now I think about it I had seconded OG before I led it).
In reply to D Berry:
>> Also similar for Sunset Slab.
Where did I ever mention grit slabs? There is a lot more to climbing than small British gritstone crags you know (although reading UKC sometimes you wouldn't know it). Even if it was just broken ankles I'm still not sure its worth it, but plenty of people have managed to kill themselves falling the height of Froggat.
>> Also similar for Sunset Slab.
> More than a little harsh, its a great route and where other than the Roaches are there better grit slabs? And you'd have to try hard to kill your self on it, broken ankles thats a different thing mind...
Where did I ever mention grit slabs? There is a lot more to climbing than small British gritstone crags you know (although reading UKC sometimes you wouldn't know it). Even if it was just broken ankles I'm still not sure its worth it, but plenty of people have managed to kill themselves falling the height of Froggat.
In reply to Andy Hobson:
I'm only 5'2 and it was my first HVS on-sight! I think it's got a bit of everything - the top slab is horribly unprotected and the crack is pretty technical - so despite the humour inducing aspect of the block (I ruined it all by managing to do it remarkably elegantly - I think being short can help!) I think it's got a bit of everything for a first HVS. But then I've not led any others (seconded loads mind) so I don't know.
> (In reply to alj)
Much harder for short people too.
I'm only 5'2 and it was my first HVS on-sight! I think it's got a bit of everything - the top slab is horribly unprotected and the crack is pretty technical - so despite the humour inducing aspect of the block (I ruined it all by managing to do it remarkably elegantly - I think being short can help!) I think it's got a bit of everything for a first HVS. But then I've not led any others (seconded loads mind) so I don't know.
In reply to TobyA: I don't disagree about there being more to climbing than grit, but the OP asked for good first grit HVSs. They don't come much easier than Sunset Slab, which by the by do you not think is at least a very good route?
In reply to D Berry:
The climbing is alright, but not particularly special. It's sort of a one move wonder.
I think we not really getting the idea of the grade if we say its an 'easy' HVS. It's only easy if you don't mind risking death or serious injury. I've led multipitch E1 in the relatively remote mountain area and V in winter, but I still decided not to lead (well solo really) Sunset Slab. Having got to the crux, I tried it but backed off. So in that sense it is harder than the dozens (hundreds maybe now) of other HVS and E1 pitches I've led.
> (In reply to TobyA) I don't disagree about there being more to climbing than grit, but the OP asked for good first grit HVSs. They don't come much easier than Sunset Slab, which by the by do you not think is at least a very good route?
The climbing is alright, but not particularly special. It's sort of a one move wonder.
I think we not really getting the idea of the grade if we say its an 'easy' HVS. It's only easy if you don't mind risking death or serious injury. I've led multipitch E1 in the relatively remote mountain area and V in winter, but I still decided not to lead (well solo really) Sunset Slab. Having got to the crux, I tried it but backed off. So in that sense it is harder than the dozens (hundreds maybe now) of other HVS and E1 pitches I've led.
In reply to TobyA:
That reall doesnt make sense t ome. There are plenty of other HVS solos wit hharder climbing, eg. Townsends variation at stanage, which has a worse landing and is still considered soft at the grade.
Loads of E1s and indeed HVSs can easily have harder climbing than this above a nasty fall without you even suspecting it. For example, I would say yo uare far more likely to take a big deck out on Cold Turkey at Stanage, an HVS 5a where you think you might get good pro to look at it, than you are on Sunset Slab. There are lots of other similar rotues on grit. Even if Sunset Slab had a 200ft cliff at th bottom, it would be soft for HVS.
That reall doesnt make sense t ome. There are plenty of other HVS solos wit hharder climbing, eg. Townsends variation at stanage, which has a worse landing and is still considered soft at the grade.
Loads of E1s and indeed HVSs can easily have harder climbing than this above a nasty fall without you even suspecting it. For example, I would say yo uare far more likely to take a big deck out on Cold Turkey at Stanage, an HVS 5a where you think you might get good pro to look at it, than you are on Sunset Slab. There are lots of other similar rotues on grit. Even if Sunset Slab had a 200ft cliff at th bottom, it would be soft for HVS.
In reply to Si dH:
Duh - well obviously, because then you would just fall onto the belay.
As long as you can competenly build a belay, the second pitch onwards on multipitch routes is of course going to be safer than some little route where you hit the floor.
> Even if Sunset Slab had a 200ft cliff at th bottom, it would be soft for HVS.
Duh - well obviously, because then you would just fall onto the belay.
As long as you can competenly build a belay, the second pitch onwards on multipitch routes is of course going to be safer than some little route where you hit the floor.
In reply to TobyA:
I was thinking of if you were soloing it. My point is, even with certain death at the bottom, it would be soft. It is only a severe with no protection after all, one 4b move, the rest Vdiff and with big holds to rest on/stand about all day and attach a top rope if need be on, before and after the hardest move.
As I said, most HVSs solos have significantly harder climbign than sunset slab, the only thing that makes it hard is its reputation. If you have ever soloed a Severe, it is no different to that (in fact Ive found several severe solos harder).
I was thinking of if you were soloing it. My point is, even with certain death at the bottom, it would be soft. It is only a severe with no protection after all, one 4b move, the rest Vdiff and with big holds to rest on/stand about all day and attach a top rope if need be on, before and after the hardest move.
As I said, most HVSs solos have significantly harder climbign than sunset slab, the only thing that makes it hard is its reputation. If you have ever soloed a Severe, it is no different to that (in fact Ive found several severe solos harder).
In reply to Si dH:
That shows the weakness of the grading system, or they are badly graded then.
> As I said, most HVSs solos have significantly harder climbign than sunset slab
That shows the weakness of the grading system, or they are badly graded then.
In reply to TobyA: What else would you grade it at then? The moves are 4b and very serious for grit 4b. There are plenty of VS 4b that are just as hard (if not harder) technically, but better protected above nicer landings. HVS 4b to me sums up perfectly very poorly protected 4b above a not too nice landing.
In reply to D Berry:
It does, the problem is that there are HVS 4cs which are very poorly protetced 4c above a not too nice landing. Shouldnt they be a grade higher than sunset slab?
It does, the problem is that there are HVS 4cs which are very poorly protetced 4c above a not too nice landing. Shouldnt they be a grade higher than sunset slab?
In reply to Si dH: Fair enough, of which Symbiosis at the plantation is probably a good example. I think in Sunset Slabs case though the HVS gives a better idea of what you're letting yourself in for than VS 4b would. I also would say Symbiosis is a harder HVS than Sunset Slab.
In reply to D Berry:
No - the SS grade seems ok. What Si was talking about was HVS routes with 5a moves where you could hit the ground from the 5a move which are as high as the crux of SS. Those were the ones where I said either they need a different grade (E1 5a presumably) or it show that our grading system isn't perfect.
> (In reply to TobyA) What else would you grade it at then?
No - the SS grade seems ok. What Si was talking about was HVS routes with 5a moves where you could hit the ground from the 5a move which are as high as the crux of SS. Those were the ones where I said either they need a different grade (E1 5a presumably) or it show that our grading system isn't perfect.
In reply to TobyA: Fair enough; kind of like the debate over the grade of TPS then.
In reply to D Berry:
/soap box on
The only reason that Sunset Slab has to be given HVS 4b is because the grade of VS 4b is used totally inapropriately elsewhere. A well protected gritstone 4b above a nice landing is HS at most.
/soap box off
/soap box on
The only reason that Sunset Slab has to be given HVS 4b is because the grade of VS 4b is used totally inapropriately elsewhere. A well protected gritstone 4b above a nice landing is HS at most.
/soap box off
In reply to GrahamD: Condor Slab then?
In reply to GrahamD: The first 'proper' butress on the Skyline at the Roaches. After the initial crack/ groove that has runners you have a high step onto a big hole in a slab (no runners) followed by a couple of rather balancy 4b mooves before a sneaky side runner protects the top out. I have managed to place a very dodgy peenut to protect the slaby crux but it was certainly no more than psychological protection. A great route perfectly graded at VS 4b.
I pondered this very question at the start of the summer. This is what I ended up having a crack at:
-Monument Gully Buttress, Birchen. Really good fun, great gear and the only tricky bit was standing up from the sitting rest.
-Route 1.5, Windgather. Very little gear but big holds.
-Portfolio, Wingather. Fell off the crux and then couldn't commit to the move.
-Mort Wall, Chatsworth. A fantastic route, felt hard but never too hard. Unfortunately, it's over far too soon.
-Pedestal Crack, Froggat. Found it pumpy and ended up weighting the gear.
-Cydrax, Gardoms. Bold but the holds are good and the moves felt secure.
-Suicide Wall, 1st pitch. Amazing climbing with perfect gear.
As you can see a mixed bunch. I just ended up having a crack at the routes that looked doable and enjoyable. I would recomend any of them.
-Monument Gully Buttress, Birchen. Really good fun, great gear and the only tricky bit was standing up from the sitting rest.
-Route 1.5, Windgather. Very little gear but big holds.
-Portfolio, Wingather. Fell off the crux and then couldn't commit to the move.
-Mort Wall, Chatsworth. A fantastic route, felt hard but never too hard. Unfortunately, it's over far too soon.
-Pedestal Crack, Froggat. Found it pumpy and ended up weighting the gear.
-Cydrax, Gardoms. Bold but the holds are good and the moves felt secure.
-Suicide Wall, 1st pitch. Amazing climbing with perfect gear.
As you can see a mixed bunch. I just ended up having a crack at the routes that looked doable and enjoyable. I would recomend any of them.
In reply to D Berry:
If thats where it is, I can't believe I haven't done it - I'll look next time I'm up there.
If thats where it is, I can't believe I haven't done it - I'll look next time I'm up there.
In reply to featuresforfeet: Did Namenlos at Stanage as my first HVS/E1 last week - def more HVS than E1 and moves are fine as long as you can use your feet!
In reply to D Berry:
I did Condor Slab last week anbd due to erosion of some sort there is now a bomber number 8 walnut to protect the slab - if you take your time searhcing it out. Otherise its bold 4b. Actually I thought the top out was 4c but hey. Solid VS but certainly no more.
I did Condor Slab last week anbd due to erosion of some sort there is now a bomber number 8 walnut to protect the slab - if you take your time searhcing it out. Otherise its bold 4b. Actually I thought the top out was 4c but hey. Solid VS but certainly no more.
In reply to Ali:
Says she of great experience on those grad3es on grit
I think it is HVS in the definitice and its certainly supposed to be soft, but youre probably better than you think
> (In reply to featuresforfeet) def more HVS than E1
Says she of great experience on those grad3es on grit
I think it is HVS in the definitice and its certainly supposed to be soft, but youre probably better than you think
In reply to Si dH: Well it felt like VS to me and quite an easy one for that but I guess the lack of gear could push it up to HVS :oS
In reply to featuresforfeet:
I did hardings super deirect finish the other week and though it was bloody ace.
I did hardings super deirect finish the other week and though it was bloody ace.
In reply to featuresforfeet: How you sweetie? Hope you're going to let me second a couple of these, sounds like fun!
In reply to GrahamD:
That offwidth on croton oil is piss!!!!!!!!!!
I've done these ones and I'm crap so they're probably all ok 1st HVS's
The Chant, and various other 5b thingies at burbage give you the short and bouldery type HVS if you are strong but your mind is weak.
Also try roscoe's wall at the roaches, tres piss on good holds. Sauls crack is great and has nice gear.
The green streak is the easiest HVS ever ever ever ever ever, 4c slab moves with decent runners!!! For bold and easy also try symbiosis at stanage as an alternative to sunset slab.
Short slab at curbar is decent and short and in the same short route vein as the burbage ones.
My mate did mort wall at chatsworth and he is crap too, he said it was good with decent gear.
Also Bamford rib is reasonable for HVS and has nice climbing.
Hope that helps, they're all good. Avoid Terrazza crack for a 1st one!
That offwidth on croton oil is piss!!!!!!!!!!
I've done these ones and I'm crap so they're probably all ok 1st HVS's
The Chant, and various other 5b thingies at burbage give you the short and bouldery type HVS if you are strong but your mind is weak.
Also try roscoe's wall at the roaches, tres piss on good holds. Sauls crack is great and has nice gear.
The green streak is the easiest HVS ever ever ever ever ever, 4c slab moves with decent runners!!! For bold and easy also try symbiosis at stanage as an alternative to sunset slab.
Short slab at curbar is decent and short and in the same short route vein as the burbage ones.
My mate did mort wall at chatsworth and he is crap too, he said it was good with decent gear.
Also Bamford rib is reasonable for HVS and has nice climbing.
Hope that helps, they're all good. Avoid Terrazza crack for a 1st one!
In reply to MattG:
you a bit pissed? some wrong diagnosis of some routes there unless they have had holds chipped since the FA.
you a bit pissed? some wrong diagnosis of some routes there unless they have had holds chipped since the FA.
In reply to MattG:
The offwidth is uite easy, its also shared with a VS. But I wouldnt pick Croton Oil as a first one. Saul's Crack is quite hard for HVS and I certainly wouldn't recommend it to a VS leader.
Agree about Green Streak actually ,Id forgotten that one - I didnt think the gear was actually very good but I didnt think it was 4c either - VS 4b? Its never HVS anyway.
The offwidth is uite easy, its also shared with a VS. But I wouldnt pick Croton Oil as a first one. Saul's Crack is quite hard for HVS and I certainly wouldn't recommend it to a VS leader.
Agree about Green Streak actually ,Id forgotten that one - I didnt think the gear was actually very good but I didnt think it was 4c either - VS 4b? Its never HVS anyway.
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