Totally cool that Welford soloed it... that was what I was thinking when I was trying it a bit. As much because of the grimness of taking a short, swinging fall if you had a cam in Goliath (I doubt you'd fall off the moves after the crux if you could do the deadpoint). It's still a very sloping landing though, so it's a ballsy solo at Font 8a. It also explains why I couldn't do the move
In reply to Richard Bradley: Also, if it is one from the foundry woody areas, they always seem a bit rubbish. I wouldn't want to jump onto one from more than 4 ft as they are very squidgy. I suppose with a proper mat on top it may be quite good.
banned profile 7418 Apr 2006
lol who cares how many mats its above its still an awesome effort!!!!
I was under the impression that it was first climbed without the siderunner in Goliath and only the dodgy friend in the flared pocket. If you read Jerry's article about the route in OTE from 1997 you will see what I mean. That would explain why the route was given E9. I don't think he would have given the climb with a siderunner such a high grade. Fair enough the grade with the siderunner might be E6 or E7 7a but I don't think that was the style of the first ascent which I think relied only on the dodgy friend.
Also I still think you are only qualified to change the grade of a climb in a guidebook from the first ascentionist's proposed grade if you have done a clean lead of that climb.
> I was under the impression that it was first climbed without the siderunner in Goliath and only the dodgy friend in the flared pocket. If you read Jerry's article about the route in OTE from 1997 you will see what I mean. That would explain why the route was given E9. I don't think he would have given the climb with a siderunner such a high grade. Fair enough the grade with the siderunner might be E6 or E7 7a but I don't think that was the style of the first ascent which I think relied only on the dodgy friend.
If you read this thread - http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=109497#1505094 - then you will see some reference to the subject of whether or not Jerry actually led the route with just the dodgy Friend for protection.
Cheers Alan. Have skimmed through the thread. I think the long and the short of it is that Jerry didn't have a photographer at the scene of his first ascent with the dodgy cam (understandable as often you just want to get it ticked without any other attendant pressures). He then came back and probably did it on toprope with the cam clipped as for a lead ascent on a second rope and then later photoshopped the toprope out to get a nice pic for the mags.
The fact that the pic is photoshopped doesn't mean that he led it with a siderunner. A read through of Jerry's 97 OTE article will make it obvious that he led it with only the dodgy cam. Recent reports on planetfear and this site are therefore historically inaccurate. The facts should perhaps have been checked first.
Dunno, there is a new concept called 'padpointing' I have come across but I have no idea how this would translate into the headpointing game??! I guess in the tradition of Slingshot and Chequer's groove at Froggatt the problem/ route in question now just gets a font grade only plus a load of highball kudos in the pub!!
PS - what grade is Ulysses with a stack of pads? I propose P6 6b for the padpoint grade!!
> Cheers Alan. Have skimmed through the thread. I think the long and the short of it is that Jerry didn't have a photographer at the scene of his first ascent with the dodgy cam (understandable as often you just want to get it ticked without any other attendant pressures). He then came back and probably did it on toprope with the cam clipped as for a lead ascent on a second rope and then later photoshopped the toprope out to get a nice pic for the mags.
Assuming Jerry did climb this first time without putting a cam in Goliath then I guess he was making a statement of some kind. However, as guidebook writers, we are more bothered about giving an accurate picture for subsequent ascents. For this reason the convention with our guides, and I would suggest with most other guides, would be to describe the route with the gear available. ie. if someone solos a first ascent of a route that has gear, then the grade given in the book is that of the route with gear.
However, another purpose of guidebooks is to accurately record the historical details of first and early ascents, where significant. Hence, we should really have mentioned the circumstances of Jerry's ascent. I will make sure that the new edition of the book, which we are currently working on, includes this information.
Er yes looking at that photo, the so called siderunner is in fact a runner. I thought it was way off to the right. One wonders why only the pocket cam was used by Jerry? Probably in the search for a new E9, after all they are quite rare beasts. oh well, glad we got that one straight!
