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I am after a pair of La Sportiva Trango Extreme Evo Light GTX.
http://www.lasportiva.com/catalogue/catalogo.php?cat=11&cod3=336&La...
The best price I can find is a little too expensive at £215, does anyone know if and where I can get them cheaper?
Or any advice or experience of these boots?
Cheers John
http://www.lasportiva.com/catalogue/catalogo.php?cat=11&cod3=336&La...
The best price I can find is a little too expensive at £215, does anyone know if and where I can get them cheaper?
Or any advice or experience of these boots?
Cheers John
In reply to j_duds:
Yes
http://www.urbanrock.com/products_detail.php?CatId=336&PId=1602
Scarpa Freney XT's are good too.
George
Yes
http://www.urbanrock.com/products_detail.php?CatId=336&PId=1602
Scarpa Freney XT's are good too.
George
> Or any advice or experience of these boots?
Tell you what. If you go to a decent climbing/walking shop where the staff give good advice and boot fitting, then they can tell you if these are the right boots for you, fit them well and they will be worth £215.
Or you can just guess you're size, buy em cheap off the internet and get a badly fitting pair of boots without supporting good retailers who want to sell you the right pair of boots.
What you are doing here is creating a lose lose situation.
In reply to Alrobertson:
Except that in my experience Urbanrock is the best climbing shop in London by miles.
>
> [...]
>
> Tell you what. If you go to a decent climbing/walking shop where the staff give good advice and boot fitting, then they can tell you if these are the right boots for you, fit them well and they will be worth £215.
>
> Or you can just guess you're size, buy em cheap off the internet and get a badly fitting pair of boots without supporting good retailers who want to sell you the right pair of boots.
>
> What you are doing here is creating a lose lose situation.
> [...]
>
> Tell you what. If you go to a decent climbing/walking shop where the staff give good advice and boot fitting, then they can tell you if these are the right boots for you, fit them well and they will be worth £215.
>
> Or you can just guess you're size, buy em cheap off the internet and get a badly fitting pair of boots without supporting good retailers who want to sell you the right pair of boots.
>
> What you are doing here is creating a lose lose situation.
Except that in my experience Urbanrock is the best climbing shop in London by miles.
In reply to Alrobertson: Or he could get them fitted then buy them somewhere cheap. Boots are very over priced. THe margins made are massive.
In reply to Alrobertson:
The real lose lose situation is where you go to a shop run by clueless youths who have been hillwalking twice, chose any boot you want from a limited range of brashers and scarpas while listening to their inane drivel, none of the boots will be available in the 3 consecutive sizes required to ensure a good fit, and all of them will be totally unsuitable for typical scottish conditions of scratchy rock and bog.
You pay top dollar for unsuitable boots, the retailer wins every time.
Mind you not all shops are like this, just most of them.
The real lose lose situation is where you go to a shop run by clueless youths who have been hillwalking twice, chose any boot you want from a limited range of brashers and scarpas while listening to their inane drivel, none of the boots will be available in the 3 consecutive sizes required to ensure a good fit, and all of them will be totally unsuitable for typical scottish conditions of scratchy rock and bog.
You pay top dollar for unsuitable boots, the retailer wins every time.
Mind you not all shops are like this, just most of them.
In reply to g taylor:
if you are paying for an hour or more of someones time and the training you need to fit boots well the margins start to dwindle.
and i wasnt slagging that shop. i hadnt looked at the link.
if you are paying for an hour or more of someones time and the training you need to fit boots well the margins start to dwindle.
and i wasnt slagging that shop. i hadnt looked at the link.
In reply to Alrobertson: Urbanrock are variable. Some of the staff are rude and clueless, some are helpful and knowledgeable.
In reply to g taylor:
What is the average boot margin for a retailer then?
> (In reply to Alrobertson) Or he could get them fitted then buy them somewhere cheap. Boots are very over priced. THe margins made are massive.
What is the average boot margin for a retailer then?
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut: Not sure what the average is, but upto 50%
In reply to g taylor: You don't know what you are talking abou do you.
If a pair of Boots retails at £100(inc vat) it has probably cost the shop about £55 (ex vat).
Take Vat off the retail price and it leaves £85.10. Take off the £55 cost price and it gives a profit of £30.10.
Take off 10% BMC god given discount and the boots now Retail at £90 which makes them £76.59 net which leaves a profit of £21.59.
This is a realistic picture of boot margins. Now build into the equation the fact that a shop has to buy 13 pairs just to keep 1 of each size inc halfs between sizes 5 and 11 in stock and I think you'll see that there are not huge margins involved.
If a pair of Boots retails at £100(inc vat) it has probably cost the shop about £55 (ex vat).
Take Vat off the retail price and it leaves £85.10. Take off the £55 cost price and it gives a profit of £30.10.
Take off 10% BMC god given discount and the boots now Retail at £90 which makes them £76.59 net which leaves a profit of £21.59.
This is a realistic picture of boot margins. Now build into the equation the fact that a shop has to buy 13 pairs just to keep 1 of each size inc halfs between sizes 5 and 11 in stock and I think you'll see that there are not huge margins involved.
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:
that man he speak the truth. then think about the cost of staff, training, warehousing, all the little costs that go into providing a decent level of customer service and then you'll realise how untolerably rude it is to take up someones time in a shop and then buy boots on the net.
that man he speak the truth. then think about the cost of staff, training, warehousing, all the little costs that go into providing a decent level of customer service and then you'll realise how untolerably rude it is to take up someones time in a shop and then buy boots on the net.
>
> You pay top dollar for unsuitable boots, the retailer wins every time.
>
> You pay top dollar for unsuitable boots, the retailer wins every time.
>
surely the retailer doesnt win at all. you wont go back?
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:
Why ask the question if you know so much about it?
Margin and Nett Profit are dfferent things.
> (In reply to g taylor)
> [...]
>
> What is the average boot margin for a retailer then?
> [...]
>
> What is the average boot margin for a retailer then?
Why ask the question if you know so much about it?
Margin and Nett Profit are dfferent things.
In reply to Alrobertson: Such is life
In reply to g taylor: now you are showing that you REALLY know nothing about it.
Explain the difference beween a profit margin and a net profit.
Explain the difference beween a profit margin and a net profit.
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut: Sorry, Gross margin.
In reply to g taylor:Are you going to explain your wonderful theory.
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut: If you'd like to come over to my office I'll gladly explain the difference between GP and Net... @ £100 per hr.
In reply to g taylor: You started off by saying boot margins are massive then you talk about margin and net profit then you move on to gross margin now you are talking about Gross profit and net and all the time you haven't actually shown that you have the slightest idea what you are talking about. £100 an hour, you're not worth that a month.
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:
if hes worth a hunner an hour to talk that rubbish i must be worth more than 5 an hour to fit boots.
if hes worth a hunner an hour to talk that rubbish i must be worth more than 5 an hour to fit boots.
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut: Ok, in your own words..
>If a pair of Boots retails at £100(inc vat) it has >probably cost the shop about £55 (ex vat).
>Take Vat off the retail price and it leaves £85.10. Take >off the £55 cost price and it gives a profit of £30.10.
In this example is £30.10 more than 50% of £55 or not?
Yes or no?
>If a pair of Boots retails at £100(inc vat) it has >probably cost the shop about £55 (ex vat).
>Take Vat off the retail price and it leaves £85.10. Take >off the £55 cost price and it gives a profit of £30.10.
In this example is £30.10 more than 50% of £55 or not?
Yes or no?
In reply to g taylor:
You Prat. The profit is worked out as a percentage of the retail price not the cost price. Please keep going this is brilliant
> (In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut) Ok, in your own words..
>
> >If a pair of Boots retails at £100(inc vat) it has >probably cost the shop about £55 (ex vat).
>
> >Take Vat off the retail price and it leaves £85.10. Take >off the £55 cost price and it gives a profit of £30.10.
>
> In this example is £30.10 more than 50% of £55 or not?
>
> Yes or no?
>
> >If a pair of Boots retails at £100(inc vat) it has >probably cost the shop about £55 (ex vat).
>
> >Take Vat off the retail price and it leaves £85.10. Take >off the £55 cost price and it gives a profit of £30.10.
>
> In this example is £30.10 more than 50% of £55 or not?
>
> Yes or no?
You Prat. The profit is worked out as a percentage of the retail price not the cost price. Please keep going this is brilliant
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:
Perhaps you are the Prat.
Your ideas are different to those of accountants.
If I buy a piece of cheese for £1 and sell it for £2 I have a %100 gross margin
Perhaps you are the Prat.
Your ideas are different to those of accountants.
If I buy a piece of cheese for £1 and sell it for £2 I have a %100 gross margin
In reply to g taylor:
Please stop you are just getting worse.
You have a 50% Margin in this instance because your profit is £1 out of £2. Therefore 50% of your sale price is profit.
> (In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut)
>
> Perhaps you are the Prat.
>
> Your ideas are different to those of accountants.
>
> If I buy a piece of cheese for £1 and sell it for £2 I have a %100 gross margin
>
> Perhaps you are the Prat.
>
> Your ideas are different to those of accountants.
>
> If I buy a piece of cheese for £1 and sell it for £2 I have a %100 gross margin
Please stop you are just getting worse.
You have a 50% Margin in this instance because your profit is £1 out of £2. Therefore 50% of your sale price is profit.
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:
I think that you are trying to detract from the fact that there is lots of profit made on boots. My definition of margin has little to do with costs of sale which vary from retailer. E.g. Alpkit vs. Ellis Brigham.
Boots have higher margins than other products, ignoring cost of sale.
I think that you are trying to detract from the fact that there is lots of profit made on boots. My definition of margin has little to do with costs of sale which vary from retailer. E.g. Alpkit vs. Ellis Brigham.
Boots have higher margins than other products, ignoring cost of sale.
In reply to g taylor: I'd say that you are now trying to detract from the fact that you haven't backed up anything at all that you've said on this thread. What you have said has been wrong from beginning to end. Margin is margin regardless of whether you're selling climbing gear , used cars, newspapers or anything. Your definition of margin is non exsitant as you haven't been able to define anything. And you've ended with another ridiculous line. Boots have higher margin than what other products?
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut: If you sell a used car that cost you £100 for £150 whats the margin?
If you believe its not 50% there is no point me carrying on this conversation.
If you believe its not 50% there is no point me carrying on this conversation.
In reply to g taylor:
In this instance your MARK UP is 50%.
Yor margin is 33% as £50 as a percentage of £150 is 33%.
cost £100
Sale £150
Profit £50
Profit is 33% of Sale price.
if i'd lent you the £100 to buy the car and you gave it back to me after you'd sold the car you'd be left with £50.
Can I make it any simpler?
> (In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut) If you sell a used car that cost you £100 for £150 whats the margin?
>
> If you believe its not 50% there is no point me carrying on this conversation.
>
> If you believe its not 50% there is no point me carrying on this conversation.
In this instance your MARK UP is 50%.
Yor margin is 33% as £50 as a percentage of £150 is 33%.
cost £100
Sale £150
Profit £50
Profit is 33% of Sale price.
if i'd lent you the £100 to buy the car and you gave it back to me after you'd sold the car you'd be left with £50.
Can I make it any simpler?
In reply to g taylor:
Wrong.
Boots don't have a higher margin than everything else! In fact... it's the things you wouldn't expect that have the higher margin.
And if you consider the amount of money a shop has to take in order to pay overheads, wages, VAT etc, returns which end up costing the shop money, and all the other expenses, you'd realise that they are usually running right on the line between profit and bunkrupcy!
Wrong.
Boots don't have a higher margin than everything else! In fact... it's the things you wouldn't expect that have the higher margin.
And if you consider the amount of money a shop has to take in order to pay overheads, wages, VAT etc, returns which end up costing the shop money, and all the other expenses, you'd realise that they are usually running right on the line between profit and bunkrupcy!
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut: Ok, my definition of profit is wrong.
I still find it difficult to believe retailers dont make lots of money on boots when the MARK UP is so high.
When I price matched some boots at Snow and Rock from £200 to £50 do you think they would be selling at a loss?
I still find it difficult to believe retailers dont make lots of money on boots when the MARK UP is so high.
When I price matched some boots at Snow and Rock from £200 to £50 do you think they would be selling at a loss?
In reply to Alrobertson:And your point is?
In reply to g taylor: Rubbish. Margins on boots and climbing hardware in general is low compared to other more mainstream products like fashionable clothing. Top end mountain boots are generally hand made in Europe with all the attendant labour costs that implies.
In reply to g taylor:
Now you are quoting Mark up when it has obviously only just entered your vocabulary since my last post. Why don't you just admit that you like to think you know all about outdoor retailing when in reality you haven't got the slightest clue.
And yes unless they where trying to sell flip flops at £200 then they would in all probability be making a loss.
> (In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut) Ok, my definition of profit is wrong.
>
> I still find it difficult to believe retailers dont make lots of money on boots when the MARK UP is so high.
>
> When I price matched some boots at Snow and Rock from £200 to £50 do you think they would be selling at a loss?
>
> I still find it difficult to believe retailers dont make lots of money on boots when the MARK UP is so high.
>
> When I price matched some boots at Snow and Rock from £200 to £50 do you think they would be selling at a loss?
Now you are quoting Mark up when it has obviously only just entered your vocabulary since my last post. Why don't you just admit that you like to think you know all about outdoor retailing when in reality you haven't got the slightest clue.
And yes unless they where trying to sell flip flops at £200 then they would in all probability be making a loss.
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut: I just admitted I mistook mark up for margin, so?
Your right, I spend my days wishing I knew as much about outdoor retail as you when I'm really a clueless idiot.
All the best,
Clueless
Your right, I spend my days wishing I knew as much about outdoor retail as you when I'm really a clueless idiot.
All the best,
Clueless
In reply to g taylor:
I think you should retract your comment about anyone else being rude and clueless after your efforts on this thread.
> (In reply to Alrobertson) Urbanrock are variable. Some of the staff are rude and clueless, some are helpful and knowledgeable.
I think you should retract your comment about anyone else being rude and clueless after your efforts on this thread.
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:
Sorry, I retract my statement.I meant to say some of the staff are very rude and clueless.
Sorry, I retract my statement.I meant to say some of the staff are very rude and clueless.
In reply to j_duds:
At the Vieux Campeur in Paris, Chamonix and a few other places the catalogue price is 259€, about £176 at today's exchange rate.
http://www.au-vieux-campeur.fr/gp/asp/produit.asp?codprd=75749
You might find cheaper elsewhere in France, but probably not much. I've been told that in the Val d'Aoste they are cheaper but I haven't confirmed this personally.
At the Vieux Campeur in Paris, Chamonix and a few other places the catalogue price is 259€, about £176 at today's exchange rate.
http://www.au-vieux-campeur.fr/gp/asp/produit.asp?codprd=75749
You might find cheaper elsewhere in France, but probably not much. I've been told that in the Val d'Aoste they are cheaper but I haven't confirmed this personally.
In reply to Bruce Hooker: I've heard about Vieux Campeur, apparently they are huge superstores, is that true?
I've been meaning to go to the one in Sallanches.
I've been meaning to go to the one in Sallanches.
In reply to Bruce Hooker: I think you can get the sales tax back at vieux camper which is around 15%
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:
I've just read the whole thread, after giving what seemed to be a helpful reply and was dismayed to find it had degenerated (as usual when anyone "dares" criticise those perfect gentlemen of fair play; the climbing gear retailers)...
Retail margins for shoes and clothing in general are high, and the stock cost argument is only part of the the issue. Others are the abysmal level of service and knowledge in many shops. This is seldom directly related to the prices practised in the shop: often the cheap ones give good advice, it's just a question of being lucky in coming across a decent salesperson.
As for the definition of profit margin, most would say selling something for double your buying price was 100% profit... not that this is relevant to either the original question or the squabble about whether gear shops over-charge or not
I've just read the whole thread, after giving what seemed to be a helpful reply and was dismayed to find it had degenerated (as usual when anyone "dares" criticise those perfect gentlemen of fair play; the climbing gear retailers)...
Retail margins for shoes and clothing in general are high, and the stock cost argument is only part of the the issue. Others are the abysmal level of service and knowledge in many shops. This is seldom directly related to the prices practised in the shop: often the cheap ones give good advice, it's just a question of being lucky in coming across a decent salesperson.
As for the definition of profit margin, most would say selling something for double your buying price was 100% profit... not that this is relevant to either the original question or the squabble about whether gear shops over-charge or not
In reply to g taylor:
They started originally in Paris and have been growing steadily, they now spread over a dozen stores all in a 100 yards of each other in the Latin Quarter of Paris. This can be quite confusing as each shop caters for one area of sports-wear. If you go there they will reimburse your parking costs in the nearby underground car-park, if you ask them, of course.
I'm not sure about the tax thing now that Britain is in the EU, I thought it was only for people from outside the EU, but I'm not certain.
They have opened up stores in other places now, including the one you mention, which are all under one roof in the conventional Decathlon way but more specialized. I have a love/hate relation with them - every other time I stomp out vowing never to return but I always do as they have pretty much of a monopoly in Paris.
The staff are often climbers or "sportifs" who one hopes are better climbers than they are sales-staff - often arrogant and dismissive if you don't want to buy the most expensive gear... some are very good though... a bit like all over really.
In Chamonix I find Snell's better, more helpful and competitive for price, but some locals have a grudge against them... not sure why...
Now, getting back to the highly interesting and gripping question of accountancy definitions........ eek!
They started originally in Paris and have been growing steadily, they now spread over a dozen stores all in a 100 yards of each other in the Latin Quarter of Paris. This can be quite confusing as each shop caters for one area of sports-wear. If you go there they will reimburse your parking costs in the nearby underground car-park, if you ask them, of course.
I'm not sure about the tax thing now that Britain is in the EU, I thought it was only for people from outside the EU, but I'm not certain.
They have opened up stores in other places now, including the one you mention, which are all under one roof in the conventional Decathlon way but more specialized. I have a love/hate relation with them - every other time I stomp out vowing never to return but I always do as they have pretty much of a monopoly in Paris.
The staff are often climbers or "sportifs" who one hopes are better climbers than they are sales-staff - often arrogant and dismissive if you don't want to buy the most expensive gear... some are very good though... a bit like all over really.
In Chamonix I find Snell's better, more helpful and competitive for price, but some locals have a grudge against them... not sure why...
Now, getting back to the highly interesting and gripping question of accountancy definitions........ eek!
>
> Now, getting back to the highly interesting and gripping question of accountancy definitions........ eek!
> Now, getting back to the highly interesting and gripping question of accountancy definitions........ eek!
I think maybe you should sleep with g taylor. You'd make a lovely couple.
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:
Unluckily for him your charm and pleasing demeanor has completely won me over... we must meet somewhere!
I think I'm in love! and after all these years too :-°)
Unluckily for him your charm and pleasing demeanor has completely won me over... we must meet somewhere!
I think I'm in love! and after all these years too :-°)
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