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Already successfull comptetion climbers, Randy and Matthew Roby have been busy outdoors climbing some hard routes.
Full report: http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/
Full report: http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Great when you have supportive parents, not so good when you are a 14/15/16/17 year old who just wants to get out but cannot because of the rules set up to protect them. It is perfectly legal to get married at 16 with parents written consent but not to join a climbing club.
Perhaps clubs should allow them, and if insurance companies do not like it they should be reported for contravening the age discrimination laws now.
Great when you have supportive parents, not so good when you are a 14/15/16/17 year old who just wants to get out but cannot because of the rules set up to protect them. It is perfectly legal to get married at 16 with parents written consent but not to join a climbing club.
Perhaps clubs should allow them, and if insurance companies do not like it they should be reported for contravening the age discrimination laws now.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: great to put youth achievments in the news... but is it really news when young european climbers are leagues ahead?
In reply to abarro81:
Yes it is. It is news to many of us that these two youngsters are out there cranking hard. Good to give them recognition and encouragement don't you think, from all angles?
All news doesn't have to be cutting edge stuff, I like to keep it diverse as we all have different tastes.
Of course Adam Ondra is not only one of the best young climbers in the World but also one of the best climbers period.
Who knows what Randy and Matthew Roby will achieve next! They need all the support and recognition they can get from the wider climbing community as well as those close to them.
I personally think what they have done is significant and will report on any youngsters that are dedicated and devoted and out there doing it.
Mick
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com) great to put youth achievments in the news... but is it really news when young european climbers are leagues ahead?
Yes it is. It is news to many of us that these two youngsters are out there cranking hard. Good to give them recognition and encouragement don't you think, from all angles?
All news doesn't have to be cutting edge stuff, I like to keep it diverse as we all have different tastes.
Of course Adam Ondra is not only one of the best young climbers in the World but also one of the best climbers period.
Who knows what Randy and Matthew Roby will achieve next! They need all the support and recognition they can get from the wider climbing community as well as those close to them.
I personally think what they have done is significant and will report on any youngsters that are dedicated and devoted and out there doing it.
Mick
In reply to abarro81:
Blah blah blah. They're kids for pete sake. Do they need comparing with European hot shots at such an early age? I personally don't think so.
Besides, 7a at 8 years old shows great potential- which surely should be rewarded/supported.
Without reporting these ascents, other children will have nothing to aspire to and posting something on Ukclimbing is hardly painting the town red by anyones books.
Well done- hope you continue to improve. Rich
Blah blah blah. They're kids for pete sake. Do they need comparing with European hot shots at such an early age? I personally don't think so.
Besides, 7a at 8 years old shows great potential- which surely should be rewarded/supported.
Without reporting these ascents, other children will have nothing to aspire to and posting something on Ukclimbing is hardly painting the town red by anyones books.
Well done- hope you continue to improve. Rich
In reply to R Simpson:
Actually it is Rich we have the biggest climbing readership in the UK, you can combine all the mags together and they still wouldn't come close.
But yes, we don't really need to compare.
Mick
> (In reply to abarro81)
> Ukclimbing is hardly painting the town red by anyones books.
Actually it is Rich we have the biggest climbing readership in the UK, you can combine all the mags together and they still wouldn't come close.
But yes, we don't really need to compare.
Mick
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: Following in the footsteps of another gerat Todmordian - Rob Utley.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Although i do not have statistics, i would have to disagree. Add the readership of Summit, Climb, Climber, Friction and Gravity together and i am sure Ukclimbing does not exceed these figures.
Lets not forget the amount of people whom pick up and read magazines in Smiths/climbing walls, but do-not purchase them. Obviousy these people (of which there are many) are not counted in the offical readership statistics, but cannot be disregarded as readers.
Obviously this is not the case for Ukclimbing, everyone and anyone who views this webpage can be counted electronically. Hence giving a more acurate view.
Besides, my comment was not related to actual readership figures, more that the majority of people whom read news on this site take it with a pinch of salt. This is not a criticism, rather a shared opinion which is said most of the time.
Although i do not have statistics, i would have to disagree. Add the readership of Summit, Climb, Climber, Friction and Gravity together and i am sure Ukclimbing does not exceed these figures.
Lets not forget the amount of people whom pick up and read magazines in Smiths/climbing walls, but do-not purchase them. Obviousy these people (of which there are many) are not counted in the offical readership statistics, but cannot be disregarded as readers.
Obviously this is not the case for Ukclimbing, everyone and anyone who views this webpage can be counted electronically. Hence giving a more acurate view.
Besides, my comment was not related to actual readership figures, more that the majority of people whom read news on this site take it with a pinch of salt. This is not a criticism, rather a shared opinion which is said most of the time.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Picked up a copy of Gravity at Rushby's stag do and left it on the table, where it was read by at leat eight people.
Picked up a copy of Gravity at Rushby's stag do and left it on the table, where it was read by at leat eight people.
In reply to R Simpson:
"Although i do not have statistics, i would have to disagree. Add the readership of Summit, Climb, Climber, Friction and Gravity together and i am sure Ukclimbing does not exceed these figures."
If you havent got any statistics, your disagreement doesnt mean much.
"Although i do not have statistics, i would have to disagree. Add the readership of Summit, Climb, Climber, Friction and Gravity together and i am sure Ukclimbing does not exceed these figures."
If you havent got any statistics, your disagreement doesnt mean much.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Todmorden youth is indeed on fire at the moment. Expect news any time now of glorious deeds by Marc C and Jimmy D.
Todmorden youth is indeed on fire at the moment. Expect news any time now of glorious deeds by Marc C and Jimmy D.
In reply to abarro81:
FFS - the name of this site is UK climbing - so anything that is exceptional in terms of UK climbing is newsworthy. This site tends to be swamped by non-climbing stuff as it is without criticising the editors for adding something of genuine interest.
So what if these kids aren't the best in the world - maybe they'll get there, maybe they won't - they are still very impressive for their age. And better than me.
Anyway, surely the real question is.........
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com) great to put youth achievments in the news... but is it really news when young european climbers are leagues ahead?
FFS - the name of this site is UK climbing - so anything that is exceptional in terms of UK climbing is newsworthy. This site tends to be swamped by non-climbing stuff as it is without criticising the editors for adding something of genuine interest.
So what if these kids aren't the best in the world - maybe they'll get there, maybe they won't - they are still very impressive for their age. And better than me.
Anyway, surely the real question is.........
In reply to simes303:
means about as much as Micks "circulation" figures. It totally lacks any measure of relevance of readership and i'd go along with Rich, ukc has a big readership, but they dont really read much, theres not enough to catch much attention, only just brought in gear reviews and has nowhere near the level of content of the magazines.
p
means about as much as Micks "circulation" figures. It totally lacks any measure of relevance of readership and i'd go along with Rich, ukc has a big readership, but they dont really read much, theres not enough to catch much attention, only just brought in gear reviews and has nowhere near the level of content of the magazines.
p
Well done to the kids, it's good to see some youngsters being put on the rock, rather than being kept inside where it's safe, and being told that they can climb outside when they're older.
In reply to R Simpson:
Really, that's a direct criticism of myself then and I can't let it lie.
First who is this majority you talk of....we have 155,000 readers each month.
Second: Could you please look at the news page and tell me which reports are inaccurate?
Here's the link http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/
Also look at the News archives and pay attention to the News reports that we ran about you, that we both put considerable effort into.
Cheers,
Mick
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
>
> more that the majority of people whom read news on this site take it with a pinch of salt.
>
> more that the majority of people whom read news on this site take it with a pinch of salt.
Really, that's a direct criticism of myself then and I can't let it lie.
First who is this majority you talk of....we have 155,000 readers each month.
Second: Could you please look at the news page and tell me which reports are inaccurate?
Here's the link http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/
Also look at the News archives and pay attention to the News reports that we ran about you, that we both put considerable effort into.
Cheers,
Mick
In reply to Hotbad Peteel:
Correct.
How so?
> (In reply to simes303)
>
> ukc has a big readership
>
> ukc has a big readership
Correct.
> but they dont really read much
How so?
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
because theres not much to read. Add up the column inches in ukc from the last year and then add up the column inches in your average mag. Thats how I know, there physically isnt as much to read.
p
> (In reply to Hotbad Peteel)
> [...]
>
> Correct.
>
> [...]
>
> How so?
> [...]
>
> Correct.
>
> [...]
>
> How so?
because theres not much to read. Add up the column inches in ukc from the last year and then add up the column inches in your average mag. Thats how I know, there physically isnt as much to read.
p
In reply to Hotbad Peteel:
Depends if you include the forums or not. Even so, there is still plenty to read if you consider the fact that a magazine appears once a month, and UKC changes every day.
Bit of an irrelevant point though.
In reply to Rich SImpson:
On the user figures; we get 150K plus of people looking at the site each month. All the magazines together don't even print more than 50K of copies. The 'single copy being looked at by multiple readers' point is almost certainly cancelled out by the number of copies of each mag that are sent back by the shops for pulping every month.
As a final thought: how many hours in the last month have you spent looking at UKC? How many hours have you spent looking at a magazine?
No contest.
Alan
> because theres not much to read. Add up the column inches in ukc from the last year and then add up the column inches in your average mag. Thats how I know, there physically isnt as much to read.
Depends if you include the forums or not. Even so, there is still plenty to read if you consider the fact that a magazine appears once a month, and UKC changes every day.
Bit of an irrelevant point though.
In reply to Rich SImpson:
On the user figures; we get 150K plus of people looking at the site each month. All the magazines together don't even print more than 50K of copies. The 'single copy being looked at by multiple readers' point is almost certainly cancelled out by the number of copies of each mag that are sent back by the shops for pulping every month.
As a final thought: how many hours in the last month have you spent looking at UKC? How many hours have you spent looking at a magazine?
No contest.
Alan
In reply to Hotbad Peteel:
Really.......combine the forums (the figures will blind you), the news articles...22 in October alone, logbooks, photos (38,200) and articles...47 this year... and I think you will find that there is far in excess of the magazines. Way more content....
So no you are wrong.
Yes we now have a gear review team and yes we have a new editor to get even more content and yes advertising is increasing, both new and repeat because it works. There's no smoke and mirrors here.
Mick
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
> [...]
>
> because theres not much to read. Add up the column inches in ukc from the last year and then add up the column inches in your average mag. Thats how I know, there physically isnt as much to read.
> [...]
>
> because theres not much to read. Add up the column inches in ukc from the last year and then add up the column inches in your average mag. Thats how I know, there physically isnt as much to read.
Really.......combine the forums (the figures will blind you), the news articles...22 in October alone, logbooks, photos (38,200) and articles...47 this year... and I think you will find that there is far in excess of the magazines. Way more content....
So no you are wrong.
Yes we now have a gear review team and yes we have a new editor to get even more content and yes advertising is increasing, both new and repeat because it works. There's no smoke and mirrors here.
Mick
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
How do you know when it's me reading from work, from home, from my friends house? I don't always log in, so I'm presuming you count these as different IPs so different readers, but it's not. Further up you say that you have the biggest climber readership. But you don't know how many of those 150k clicks are climbers, I bet a fair amount of users here don't climb that regularly.
Didn't the one about Lucy Creamer have to be edited this morning when someone pointed out the grade was wrong?
I'm assuming the world important "I went bouldering to Thorn Crag with my friends" article you wrote is correct.
Anyway, good effort to the Robys.
> First who is this majority you talk of....we have 155,000 readers each month.
How do you know when it's me reading from work, from home, from my friends house? I don't always log in, so I'm presuming you count these as different IPs so different readers, but it's not. Further up you say that you have the biggest climber readership. But you don't know how many of those 150k clicks are climbers, I bet a fair amount of users here don't climb that regularly.
> Second: Could you please look at the news page and tell me which reports are inaccurate?
Didn't the one about Lucy Creamer have to be edited this morning when someone pointed out the grade was wrong?
I'm assuming the world important "I went bouldering to Thorn Crag with my friends" article you wrote is correct.
Anyway, good effort to the Robys.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
I'm with you Mick. UKC is the tops whatever way you choose to measure your metrics. For example, I just performed a search for the word 'owl' and the results came back with a very pleasing 1348 messages found in 648 threads. I know of no other climbing medium that provides as much coverage to owls as UKC does.
Owls barely merit a mention in the rest of climbing press. There was a brief flurry of interest when The Owl and the Cragrat was released, but this now seems to have died a death. I've personally submitted numerous owling articles to Climber etc etc and they never publish a single one... They've even stopped answering my emails.
>
> There's no smoke and mirrors here.
> There's no smoke and mirrors here.
I'm with you Mick. UKC is the tops whatever way you choose to measure your metrics. For example, I just performed a search for the word 'owl' and the results came back with a very pleasing 1348 messages found in 648 threads. I know of no other climbing medium that provides as much coverage to owls as UKC does.
Owls barely merit a mention in the rest of climbing press. There was a brief flurry of interest when The Owl and the Cragrat was released, but this now seems to have died a death. I've personally submitted numerous owling articles to Climber etc etc and they never publish a single one... They've even stopped answering my emails.
In reply to squeek:
Yes indeed, the power of the internet, immediate and easily corrected. Went from 8a to 8a+, or as Rich Simpson (Action Directe ascensionist) pointed out at UKClimbing.com just this morning, probably 8b. Try and get that kind of feedback from print.
Don't get me wrong now, I love the mags, but they do have their drawbacks as well as their advantages.
M
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
> [...]
> Didn't the one about Lucy Creamer have to be edited this morning when someone pointed out the grade was wrong?
> [...]
> Didn't the one about Lucy Creamer have to be edited this morning when someone pointed out the grade was wrong?
Yes indeed, the power of the internet, immediate and easily corrected. Went from 8a to 8a+, or as Rich Simpson (Action Directe ascensionist) pointed out at UKClimbing.com just this morning, probably 8b. Try and get that kind of feedback from print.
Don't get me wrong now, I love the mags, but they do have their drawbacks as well as their advantages.
M
In reply to Clauso:
P.S. With UKCs proud owling heritage in mind, maybe you might consider an owly theme for your next UKC T-shirt release? A suitably impressive photo of an owl on the front and the words "UKC - For All Your Owling" on the back? I'm sure that it'd sell like hot cakes... It'd certainly do better than a boring old sea stack, anyhow?
P.S. With UKCs proud owling heritage in mind, maybe you might consider an owly theme for your next UKC T-shirt release? A suitably impressive photo of an owl on the front and the words "UKC - For All Your Owling" on the back? I'm sure that it'd sell like hot cakes... It'd certainly do better than a boring old sea stack, anyhow?
In reply to Jimmy D:
Absolutely! The Lumbutts Lizard and Kebs Chameleon will kick those young whippersnappers' asses!
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
>
> Todmorden youth is indeed on fire at the moment. Expect news any time now of glorious deeds by Marc C and Jimmy D>
>
> Todmorden youth is indeed on fire at the moment. Expect news any time now of glorious deeds by Marc C and Jimmy D>
Absolutely! The Lumbutts Lizard and Kebs Chameleon will kick those young whippersnappers' asses!
In reply to squeek:
That is countered by instutions, schools, universities etc having one IP address but multiple posters.
There are people who climb regularly, climbers who don't climb regularly, some who are just about to start, some who are interested in starting, hillwalkers interested in climbing, general outdoor types interested in climbers and non-climbers who like to stalk climbers!
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
> [...]
>
> I don't always log in, so I'm presuming you count these as different IPs so different readers, but it's not.
> [...]
>
> I don't always log in, so I'm presuming you count these as different IPs so different readers, but it's not.
That is countered by instutions, schools, universities etc having one IP address but multiple posters.
> Further up you say that you have the biggest climber readership. But you don't know how many of those 150k clicks are climbers, I bet a fair amount of users here don't climb that regularly.
There are people who climb regularly, climbers who don't climb regularly, some who are just about to start, some who are interested in starting, hillwalkers interested in climbing, general outdoor types interested in climbers and non-climbers who like to stalk climbers!
In reply to squeek:
The figure comes from unique IP addresses which is the industry standard for trying to work our how many different people look at each web site. The conflict that you mention is usually easily outweighed by those browsing from places where one IP address covers many different computers - for example a university.
This crops up fairly regularly on here and, if I remember correctly, even Hotbad suggested last time that our figures are probably on the low side.
Alan
> How do you know when it's me reading from work, from home, from my friends house? I don't always log in, so I'm presuming you count these as different IPs so different readers, but it's not.
The figure comes from unique IP addresses which is the industry standard for trying to work our how many different people look at each web site. The conflict that you mention is usually easily outweighed by those browsing from places where one IP address covers many different computers - for example a university.
This crops up fairly regularly on here and, if I remember correctly, even Hotbad suggested last time that our figures are probably on the low side.
Alan
In reply to R Simpson:
totally agree with your sentiments...plus it's not just kids they are inspiring but joe punters like me
> (In reply to abarro81)
>
>>
>
> Without reporting these ascents, other children will have nothing to aspire to and posting something on
totally agree with your sentiments...plus it's not just kids they are inspiring but joe punters like me
In reply to sutty: Most walls have systems in place if you are over 14 for you to get independant access. We certainly have and we encourage people to go outside. I think walls have taken over in some ways from climbing clubs for introducing youngsters.
I totally agree with you regarding the getting married etc but still needing parental consent to climb.
Cheers
Ian
I totally agree with you regarding the getting married etc but still needing parental consent to climb.
Cheers
Ian
In reply to Ian Dunn:
wasn't david cameron thinking of doing something like letting you drive if you get married young or something?
wasn't david cameron thinking of doing something like letting you drive if you get married young or something?
In reply to abarro81: Yes it is news, even in europe there are not many kids top roping 7a in one go at 8yrs and leading them at 9yrs. Randy went out to a European competition (Arco Rock Junior) and came 3rd in an international field for his first event abroad last June. Why can't people encourage youngsters rather than constantly put them down with comments like 'young european climbers are leagues ahead.' We have a few up and coming young climbers who are in the junior british team who have potential to do very well and are not far from the top standards Nat Berry is getting very good results at the moment and there are a few more that are bubbling under.
We are so negetive in this country, sure Adam Ondra and David Lama are climbing really hard but they are climbing harder than just about everyone in the UK regardless of age.
A bit of support and encouragement might mean that young climbers go on to realise their potential if they want to.
We are so negetive in this country, sure Adam Ondra and David Lama are climbing really hard but they are climbing harder than just about everyone in the UK regardless of age.
A bit of support and encouragement might mean that young climbers go on to realise their potential if they want to.
In reply to R Simpson: Thanks for your support Rich.
In reply to Alan James - UKC:
Although amongst the serious news items it is good to have some light hearted stuff.
Anyway........congratulations to Randy and Matthew.
As is the nature of forums this went way off topic.
Mick
Although amongst the serious news items it is good to have some light hearted stuff.
Anyway........congratulations to Randy and Matthew.
As is the nature of forums this went way off topic.
Mick
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: "they get out as often as they can counting Kilnsey, Giggleswick and Norber on Yorkshire limestone, the Bridestones, Widdop, Heptonstall and Mytholme Steep as their favourite crags. Abroad they have climbed all over mainland Europe where they did their first multi-pitch route the classic Marion in Sella." Woah I'm well jealous! They seem to have climbed in all the places in Yorkshire I'd like to climb but money/time issues prevent. Wish I was a kid gettin taken climbing all over the world - all i ever got was bloody Butlins! Seriously though this is impressive stuff. Hopefully they'll get some growing done soon so that when someone asks the age old question "yeah but what have they ever done on grit" they'll be able to reel off some hard stuff! Good effort.
I've never encountered so much squabbling on an internet forum!
Well done to the lads - to say what they're doing isn't news worthy is daft.
I wish I could climb walls that hard....
Well done to the lads - to say what they're doing isn't news worthy is daft.
I wish I could climb walls that hard....
In reply to Joe Costello:
Suprised it's taken over 7 hours for someone to ask that question - I was tempted but managed to restrain myself
> Hopefully they'll get some growing done soon so that when someone asks the age old question "yeah but what have they ever done on grit" they'll be able to reel off some hard stuff! Good effort.
Suprised it's taken over 7 hours for someone to ask that question - I was tempted but managed to restrain myself
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
I was not criticising your news section. I for one, think its quite good- being up to date and a usually accurate insight into British climbing. This opinion, isn't however shared by my peers, many of whom i have heard reguarly moaning/criticising this news board. This is what i tryed to state within my post. The generaly perception (from people ive encountered at least) is that the news section is not very good since it has alot of reports, which quite simply are not newsworthy and does not show a a true reflection on what is happening within the climbing circle.
This thread, in my opinion was newsworthy, hence my comment to the person stating it wasn't. Im glad you posted this news- for me it is inspiring to hear- hence my regualar return to your news page, instead of things like climb, which in my opinion represent British climbing terribly.
I also find it hard to believe that 150k people read these webpages each week. Show me the statisitcs and i am more than willing to admit im wrong.
My opinion is based on:
The BMC only has about 70k members. So that means another 80k people, each week view Ukclimbing.
Which i find hard to believe, since i dont think there are that many climbers in the UK and Ukclimbing would not appeal to persons overseas.
Is the 150k figure based on different computer hits? for example, in a busy week i may check Ukclimbing from going on ten different computers, sometimes even more.
That does not mean ten different people have look at Ukclimbing, it means i have looked ten times from different places. I am sure the same goes for many people, who check from work and at home.
I hope you can prove me wrong, which will then mean the climbing scene in Britain is healthier than i expected. Until you do, i will continue to believe how i do.
Can i re-emphasise that i was glad to have read both the article on Lucy Creamer and the one on the Roby brothers this morning, which in my opinion only shows the strengths of the UKclimbing news papges.
I was not criticising your news section. I for one, think its quite good- being up to date and a usually accurate insight into British climbing. This opinion, isn't however shared by my peers, many of whom i have heard reguarly moaning/criticising this news board. This is what i tryed to state within my post. The generaly perception (from people ive encountered at least) is that the news section is not very good since it has alot of reports, which quite simply are not newsworthy and does not show a a true reflection on what is happening within the climbing circle.
This thread, in my opinion was newsworthy, hence my comment to the person stating it wasn't. Im glad you posted this news- for me it is inspiring to hear- hence my regualar return to your news page, instead of things like climb, which in my opinion represent British climbing terribly.
I also find it hard to believe that 150k people read these webpages each week. Show me the statisitcs and i am more than willing to admit im wrong.
My opinion is based on:
The BMC only has about 70k members. So that means another 80k people, each week view Ukclimbing.
Which i find hard to believe, since i dont think there are that many climbers in the UK and Ukclimbing would not appeal to persons overseas.
Is the 150k figure based on different computer hits? for example, in a busy week i may check Ukclimbing from going on ten different computers, sometimes even more.
That does not mean ten different people have look at Ukclimbing, it means i have looked ten times from different places. I am sure the same goes for many people, who check from work and at home.
I hope you can prove me wrong, which will then mean the climbing scene in Britain is healthier than i expected. Until you do, i will continue to believe how i do.
Can i re-emphasise that i was glad to have read both the article on Lucy Creamer and the one on the Roby brothers this morning, which in my opinion only shows the strengths of the UKclimbing news papges.
In reply to R Simpson:
Well we do our best and publish a lot of what we receive. But we haven't got many resources for news reporting so reply to a large extent on people bringing things to our attention. I think the new items cover here correlate fairly accurately with the sort of thing that the only other real general UK climbing news site publishes - namely planetFear. Also, don't forget that what is trivial to you might not be trivial to others. Just browsing last month's reports, I can't see anything trivial on there.
It was each month actually. And there is quite a lot of international traffic (- 35% from .com domains for example although those can be UK-based).
See unique IP discussion a few posts back up this thread.
Well it is difficult to prove but we do have the data to support the figures that we quote.
Alan
> The generaly perception (from people ive encountered at least) is that the news section is not very good since it has alot of reports, which quite simply are not newsworthy and does not show a a true reflection on what is happening within the climbing circle.
Well we do our best and publish a lot of what we receive. But we haven't got many resources for news reporting so reply to a large extent on people bringing things to our attention. I think the new items cover here correlate fairly accurately with the sort of thing that the only other real general UK climbing news site publishes - namely planetFear. Also, don't forget that what is trivial to you might not be trivial to others. Just browsing last month's reports, I can't see anything trivial on there.
> I also find it hard to believe that 150k people read these webpages each week. Show me the statisitcs and i am more than willing to admit im wrong.
> My opinion is based on:
>
> The BMC only has about 70k members. So that means another 80k people, each week view Ukclimbing.
> My opinion is based on:
>
> The BMC only has about 70k members. So that means another 80k people, each week view Ukclimbing.
It was each month actually. And there is quite a lot of international traffic (- 35% from .com domains for example although those can be UK-based).
> Is the 150k figure based on different computer hits??
See unique IP discussion a few posts back up this thread.
> I hope you can prove me wrong, which will then mean the climbing scene in Britain is healthier than i expected. Until you do, i will continue to believe how i do.
Well it is difficult to prove but we do have the data to support the figures that we quote.
Alan
In reply to Alan James - UKC:
Also, don't forget that what is trivial to you might not be trivial to others.
Yes, i totally agree.
Im surprised, but i stand corrected.
Ok, i trust the facts you state and withdrawl comments made previously. Like i said, i hoped i was wrong- it shows climbing is more vibrant than i expected.
I also commend the fact that you are willing to withdrawl/change errors within the news reporting and also admit what have been written is sometimes wrong. Rather than having your head so far up your own arse that anyone elses opinion is irrelevant.
> (In reply to R Simpson)
Also, don't forget that what is trivial to you might not be trivial to others.
Yes, i totally agree.
> It was each month actually. And there is quite a lot of international traffic (- 35% from .com domains for example although those can be UK-based).
Im surprised, but i stand corrected.
>
> [...]
>
>
> Well it is difficult to prove but we do have the data to support the figures that we quote.
> [...]
>
>
> Well it is difficult to prove but we do have the data to support the figures that we quote.
Ok, i trust the facts you state and withdrawl comments made previously. Like i said, i hoped i was wrong- it shows climbing is more vibrant than i expected.
I also commend the fact that you are willing to withdrawl/change errors within the news reporting and also admit what have been written is sometimes wrong. Rather than having your head so far up your own arse that anyone elses opinion is irrelevant.
In reply to R Simpson:
You can't hide at UKClimbing.com, someones always watching and commenting. And yes we are very open to criticism. We publish something, you can have your say instantly. We try to always correct inaccuracies. There will sometimes be discrepencies, we are human.
We are reliant on contributions, Katherine Schirrmacher kindly sent us words, when asked, about her and Lucy's recent ascents, Ian Dunn interviewed Randy and Matt in this news item, Neil Gresham clarified his ascent of Flying Dutchman that was questioned, Bobbi Bensman kindly sent her blessing to use her wonderful words about Todd Skinner's Memorial in Lander, Mark Reeve wrote a report about Neil Dwyer, some of course is from other websites and is credited. Dave MacCleod and Hot Aches have been incredibly helpful. You Rich have been more than helpful with the news reports. The list goes on and on.
Incidently Amy Skinner, wife of Todd has asked us to print the comments about Todd at UKClimbing.com into a book for her children which we are doing. This kind of thing can happen nowhere else and it has impact, it is organic and real.
Anyway the point I'm making is that this is your media, not some faceless publishing company who's sole aim is to generate advertising revenue for its owners who aren't climbers. UKC does have commercial aims but also community and social aims...and it is very egalitarian, it accomodates all climbers, those totally obsessed by boulder problems to those enjoying themselves some rainy Sunday on Crib Goch.
Mick
> (In reply to Alan James - UKC)
> I also commend the fact that you are willing to withdrawl/change errors within the news reporting and also admit what have been written is sometimes wrong. Rather than having your head so far up your own arse that anyone elses opinion is irrelevant.
You can't hide at UKClimbing.com, someones always watching and commenting. And yes we are very open to criticism. We publish something, you can have your say instantly. We try to always correct inaccuracies. There will sometimes be discrepencies, we are human.
We are reliant on contributions, Katherine Schirrmacher kindly sent us words, when asked, about her and Lucy's recent ascents, Ian Dunn interviewed Randy and Matt in this news item, Neil Gresham clarified his ascent of Flying Dutchman that was questioned, Bobbi Bensman kindly sent her blessing to use her wonderful words about Todd Skinner's Memorial in Lander, Mark Reeve wrote a report about Neil Dwyer, some of course is from other websites and is credited. Dave MacCleod and Hot Aches have been incredibly helpful. You Rich have been more than helpful with the news reports. The list goes on and on.
Incidently Amy Skinner, wife of Todd has asked us to print the comments about Todd at UKClimbing.com into a book for her children which we are doing. This kind of thing can happen nowhere else and it has impact, it is organic and real.
Anyway the point I'm making is that this is your media, not some faceless publishing company who's sole aim is to generate advertising revenue for its owners who aren't climbers. UKC does have commercial aims but also community and social aims...and it is very egalitarian, it accomodates all climbers, those totally obsessed by boulder problems to those enjoying themselves some rainy Sunday on Crib Goch.
Mick
In reply to Alan James - UKC:
Another point on the unique IP problem. The majority of people accessing these forums from home will be doing so on broadband. The vast majority of these will be on a dynamic IP from their service provider which will change every time their router is restarted. I would have thought this would inflate figures substantially.
Another point on the unique IP problem. The majority of people accessing these forums from home will be doing so on broadband. The vast majority of these will be on a dynamic IP from their service provider which will change every time their router is restarted. I would have thought this would inflate figures substantially.
In reply to t0mb0:
I don't know quite how it works but it is recognised as the industry standard for measuring these things and generally thought of as lower than the actual number.
This fact is endorsed by Hotbad towards the end of this thread
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=185087&v=1#2675362
Alan
> Another point on the unique IP problem. The majority of people accessing these forums from home will be doing so on broadband. The vast majority of these will be on a dynamic IP from their service provider which will change every time their router is restarted. I would have thought this would inflate figures substantially.
I don't know quite how it works but it is recognised as the industry standard for measuring these things and generally thought of as lower than the actual number.
This fact is endorsed by Hotbad towards the end of this thread
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=185087&v=1#2675362
Alan
In reply to Hotbad Peteel:
I had a magazine subscription for a year. I found that the gear reviews were not reviews at all, they were simply infomercials. There was never any criticism or bad points, presumably the magazine needed to keep the companies happy or they would lose advertising revenue. I hope that the ukclimbing reviews are more informative.
Personally i found out alot more useful info from the comments by people within the forums about gear. I am a proud owner of a cheap and good argos one man tent thanks to these forums...
> (In reply to simes303)
>
> means about as much as Micks "circulation" figures. It totally lacks any measure of relevance of readership and i'd go along with Rich, ukc has a big readership, but they dont really read much, theres not enough to catch much attention, only just brought in gear reviews and has nowhere near the level of content of the magazines.
> p
>
> means about as much as Micks "circulation" figures. It totally lacks any measure of relevance of readership and i'd go along with Rich, ukc has a big readership, but they dont really read much, theres not enough to catch much attention, only just brought in gear reviews and has nowhere near the level of content of the magazines.
> p
I had a magazine subscription for a year. I found that the gear reviews were not reviews at all, they were simply infomercials. There was never any criticism or bad points, presumably the magazine needed to keep the companies happy or they would lose advertising revenue. I hope that the ukclimbing reviews are more informative.
Personally i found out alot more useful info from the comments by people within the forums about gear. I am a proud owner of a cheap and good argos one man tent thanks to these forums...
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
lets face it their hands are smaller and therefore the holds are bigger to them. Obviously cheating going on here
lets face it their hands are smaller and therefore the holds are bigger to them. Obviously cheating going on here
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: and what have they done on grit?
In reply to Lawrence:
It says in the news report.
http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com) and what have they done on grit?
It says in the news report.
http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Geez Mick, how many of your "readers" are automated (Googlebots or similar)
Geez Mick, how many of your "readers" are automated (Googlebots or similar)
In reply to clubwaddage:
Read the rest of the thread.
It wouldn't be accepted as the industry standard if it gave a false figure.
Alan
> Geez Mick, how many of your "readers" are automated (Googlebots or similar)
Read the rest of the thread.
It wouldn't be accepted as the industry standard if it gave a false figure.
Alan
In reply to clubwaddage:
Geez Clubwaddage. At this time, 21:53 I'm editing a great article by Malcolm Phelps about his teams ascent of the Cassin Route on the Piz Badile in August 2006.
You can read this for free quite soon along with several other articles submitted by several readers of this site, that Jo Horne is editing.
At the same time I'm selling advertising to fund this site so that you can access it and packaging T-shirts (buy one if you want to contribute).
In answer to your question, which I may find time to answer detail later, there is one googlebot on the forums at this time.
Give me a shout if you have anything constructive to add.
Next.
Cheers,
Mick
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
>
> Geez Mick, how many of your "readers" are automated (Googlebots or similar)
>
> Geez Mick, how many of your "readers" are automated (Googlebots or similar)
Geez Clubwaddage. At this time, 21:53 I'm editing a great article by Malcolm Phelps about his teams ascent of the Cassin Route on the Piz Badile in August 2006.
You can read this for free quite soon along with several other articles submitted by several readers of this site, that Jo Horne is editing.
At the same time I'm selling advertising to fund this site so that you can access it and packaging T-shirts (buy one if you want to contribute).
In answer to your question, which I may find time to answer detail later, there is one googlebot on the forums at this time.
Give me a shout if you have anything constructive to add.
Next.
Cheers,
Mick
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Please can you stop using irritating phrases like 'on fire', 'energiser bunny' etc. It detracts and distracts from the news items. Thank you.
> (In reply to clubwaddage)
> Give me a shout if you have anything constructive to add.
>
> Next.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Mick
> Give me a shout if you have anything constructive to add.
>
> Next.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Mick
Please can you stop using irritating phrases like 'on fire', 'energiser bunny' etc. It detracts and distracts from the news items. Thank you.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
I like your writing style, makes a pleasant change from the dreary science articles i usually read. On another matter, are you sending the t-shirts from the US? What price are they to send within the US?
I like your writing style, makes a pleasant change from the dreary science articles i usually read. On another matter, are you sending the t-shirts from the US? What price are they to send within the US?
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Fantastic achievements by 2 young lads. Let's all wish them all the best, and bollox to anyone who says any different. Yes, of course it's newsworthy. I imagine they'll read this stuff at some point, so all praise and respect from me. Great stuff, and ignore the rest of it.
Fantastic achievements by 2 young lads. Let's all wish them all the best, and bollox to anyone who says any different. Yes, of course it's newsworthy. I imagine they'll read this stuff at some point, so all praise and respect from me. Great stuff, and ignore the rest of it.
In reply to Chris the Tall:
Hmm but what have they ever done at Heptonstall I ask you?
> (In reply to Joe Costello)
> [...]
>
> Suprised it's taken over 7 hours for someone to ask that question - I was tempted but managed to restrain myself
> [...]
>
> Suprised it's taken over 7 hours for someone to ask that question - I was tempted but managed to restrain myself
Hmm but what have they ever done at Heptonstall I ask you?
In reply to Yorkspud: Heptonstall?! For god's sake, man, the real question is 'What have they ever done at Lumbutts?'
In reply to Marc C: They have been to Blackstone Edge though! Beware of your projects Marc.
In reply to Ian Dunn: Marc's 'projects' are not for the eyes of such youngsters!
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Good show by the young uns.
As for potential -- I remember seeing the three H's Houlding and Hocking and McHaffie at around the same age, and look what they've gone on to achieve.
Good show by the young uns.
As for potential -- I remember seeing the three H's Houlding and Hocking and McHaffie at around the same age, and look what they've gone on to achieve.
In reply to Marc C:
I stand corrected and the answer, for many of us, will be 'nowt'!
> (In reply to Yorkspud) Heptonstall?! For god's sake, man, the real question is 'What have they ever done at Lumbutts?'
I stand corrected and the answer, for many of us, will be 'nowt'!
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Out of interest does anyone know what Adam Ondra was climbing at 9-10. I'm sure I remember reading reports that he had done 8a at 11!!!!!
Out of interest does anyone know what Adam Ondra was climbing at 9-10. I'm sure I remember reading reports that he had done 8a at 11!!!!!
In reply to Ben Stokes:
A little search on 8a.nu has shows Adam climbed 8a at 9 years old, 8a+ at 10, 8c at 11, and 8x+ at 13. Shocking! Not taking anything away from Matthew and Randy but these figures puts things into perspective...
A little search on 8a.nu has shows Adam climbed 8a at 9 years old, 8a+ at 10, 8c at 11, and 8x+ at 13. Shocking! Not taking anything away from Matthew and Randy but these figures puts things into perspective...
In reply to Ben Stokes: But Adam is very much an exception to the rule. I remember a young Ben Bransby redpointing Consenting Adults when he was 8 years old, and what has he done since
Andy F
Andy F
In reply to Ian Dunn:
I'm quietly confident that it will take more than a couple of youngsters one afternoon to get anywhere near projects that I've slowly been getting closer to succeeding on over
10 years! Some of them must be at least 5c!
> (In reply to Marc C) They have been to Blackstone Edge though! Beware of your projects Marc>
I'm quietly confident that it will take more than a couple of youngsters one afternoon to get anywhere near projects that I've slowly been getting closer to succeeding on over
10 years! Some of them must be at least 5c!
In reply to andy farnell:
Fair point. David Lama was only climbing 8a at 10
It is worth remembering that David Graham and Dani Andrada didn't start climbing until 16 and 13 respectively.
However, I wonder how many kids in France, Spain, etc redpoint 7a?
> But Adam is very much an exception to the rule.
Fair point. David Lama was only climbing 8a at 10
It is worth remembering that David Graham and Dani Andrada didn't start climbing until 16 and 13 respectively.
However, I wonder how many kids in France, Spain, etc redpoint 7a?
In reply to Ben Stokes:
Ok, one of the exceptions to the rule. Your probably right about a fair few of our continental neighbors climbing 7a and above at lowly ages, though the set-up is better over there for them to do that (more sports routes, no hassle with the trad background
Andy F
> (In reply to andy farnell)
>
> [...]
>
> Fair point. David Lama was only climbing 8a at 10
>
> It is worth remembering that David Graham and Dani Andrada didn't start climbing until 16 and 13 respectively.
>
> However, I wonder how many kids in France, Spain, etc redpoint 7a?
>
> [...]
>
> Fair point. David Lama was only climbing 8a at 10
>
> It is worth remembering that David Graham and Dani Andrada didn't start climbing until 16 and 13 respectively.
>
> However, I wonder how many kids in France, Spain, etc redpoint 7a?
Ok, one of the exceptions to the rule. Your probably right about a fair few of our continental neighbors climbing 7a and above at lowly ages, though the set-up is better over there for them to do that (more sports routes, no hassle with the trad background
Andy F
In reply to andy farnell:
Yeah, as a nation we are held back by "tradition"
> (more sports routes, no hassle with the trad background
Yeah, as a nation we are held back by "tradition"
In reply to andy farnell: Possibly also the availability of quality sports routes, hundreds at any given grade in lots of different areas. Plus perhaps the weather.
In reply to andy farnell:
not sure why a trad background would preclude anybody from ticking big numbers. after placing gear on lead then clipping bolts will feel somewhat easier.
> (In reply to Ben Stokes)
> [...]
>
> (more sports routes, no hassle with the trad background
>
> Andy F
> [...]
>
> (more sports routes, no hassle with the trad background
>
> Andy F
not sure why a trad background would preclude anybody from ticking big numbers. after placing gear on lead then clipping bolts will feel somewhat easier.
In reply to Morgan Woods:
If all you do is sport climb from an early age then your more likely to get sport climbing fit, which is very different to trad climbing fit. Oh, don't start the old 'Trad climbing vs Sport climbing' debate again, it's been done already....
Andy F
> (In reply to andy farnell)
> [...]
>
> not sure why a trad background would preclude anybody from ticking big numbers. after placing gear on lead then clipping bolts will feel somewhat easier.
> [...]
>
> not sure why a trad background would preclude anybody from ticking big numbers. after placing gear on lead then clipping bolts will feel somewhat easier.
If all you do is sport climb from an early age then your more likely to get sport climbing fit, which is very different to trad climbing fit. Oh, don't start the old 'Trad climbing vs Sport climbing' debate again, it's been done already....
Andy F
Two things to say,
1. What is wrong with you lot? These two lads are 7 and 8 and look at what they are doing, we should be giving them nothing but praise at this age, never mind that there may be other climbers who are better (how many of us can say there is no one better?).
2. What is wrong with you lot? This site is bloody good and it is free, who cares what the readership of the magazines is, it is the quality of this site that matters. I have looked at this site a lot but this is my first post. The one thing that lets it down is the quality of most of the contributions on the forums. ie you lot!, which tend to quickly degenerate into negative sniping one-liners. If the quality of argument in the forums was a fraction of the quality in the rest of the site it would improve no end. If you think there is a problem with the content of the reporting, lets see you do better.
And no I am nothing to do with the site and this is not a "troll". It is my opinion. I am not a good climber, been at it 30 years might get up a vs on a good day, not young, cool or thin, but have four kids who have been climbing since they could walk and perhaps know how to encourage children to climb and that is not by telling them that there are others who are better then them.
So Randy and Matthew - well done, keep at it you're doing great.
Mick Ryan et al - ditto
1. What is wrong with you lot? These two lads are 7 and 8 and look at what they are doing, we should be giving them nothing but praise at this age, never mind that there may be other climbers who are better (how many of us can say there is no one better?).
2. What is wrong with you lot? This site is bloody good and it is free, who cares what the readership of the magazines is, it is the quality of this site that matters. I have looked at this site a lot but this is my first post. The one thing that lets it down is the quality of most of the contributions on the forums. ie you lot!, which tend to quickly degenerate into negative sniping one-liners. If the quality of argument in the forums was a fraction of the quality in the rest of the site it would improve no end. If you think there is a problem with the content of the reporting, lets see you do better.
And no I am nothing to do with the site and this is not a "troll". It is my opinion. I am not a good climber, been at it 30 years might get up a vs on a good day, not young, cool or thin, but have four kids who have been climbing since they could walk and perhaps know how to encourage children to climb and that is not by telling them that there are others who are better then them.
So Randy and Matthew - well done, keep at it you're doing great.
Mick Ryan et al - ditto
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: Well done Randy and Matthew! Natalie
In reply to Mick Ryan: <Todmorden youth on fire> Think I saw several Todmorden youths on fire last night - that's the problem when you mix bonfires, strong winds, alcohol, drugs and young lads...
In reply to Alan James - UKC:
Appreciate the site and usually agree with your side to arguments but in this case I would go with the skeptism of the unique IP count.
I would have thought 'industry' would be quite happy to accept a flatering method of counting as 'standard', given how much advertising revenue is at stake. In fact who (i.e. which sites) would want low figures as by definition any site is going to want the highest estimates as possible.
I access from work and for sure have a dynamic IP as on internet votes where only unique IP's are allowed to click I can keep clicking until bored. I also access from home, my parents, my girlfriends parents.... I wouldn't be suprised at having 20+ IPs.
Also I would be interested if a company or university IT bod could comment on how many IPs they have, I bet unless it's a small company it may be >1. On monday, lets have a look on the unregistered user list and count sheffield.ac.uk or man.ac.uk assuming you show the whole IP. Maybe I'm wrong.
Good effort from the kids.
> (In reply to clubwaddage)
> [...]
>
> Read the rest of the thread.
>
> It wouldn't be accepted as the industry standard if it gave a false figure.
>
> Alan
> [...]
>
> Read the rest of the thread.
>
> It wouldn't be accepted as the industry standard if it gave a false figure.
>
> Alan
Appreciate the site and usually agree with your side to arguments but in this case I would go with the skeptism of the unique IP count.
I would have thought 'industry' would be quite happy to accept a flatering method of counting as 'standard', given how much advertising revenue is at stake. In fact who (i.e. which sites) would want low figures as by definition any site is going to want the highest estimates as possible.
I access from work and for sure have a dynamic IP as on internet votes where only unique IP's are allowed to click I can keep clicking until bored. I also access from home, my parents, my girlfriends parents.... I wouldn't be suprised at having 20+ IPs.
Also I would be interested if a company or university IT bod could comment on how many IPs they have, I bet unless it's a small company it may be >1. On monday, lets have a look on the unregistered user list and count sheffield.ac.uk or man.ac.uk assuming you show the whole IP. Maybe I'm wrong.
Good effort from the kids.
In reply to Alan James - UKC:
Alan, nobody uses IP address counts for unique user figures. Please get that into your head. The audit bureau circulation electronic have ruled that out for as long as I've been working in the industry. Also, unique user figures for websites are known to not be an accurate reflection of actual individuals using your site. Its useful for comparing with other websites, as long as yo understand the different measurement techniques, however its basically useless for comparing across different media types. THE ABCe have been discussing renaming the metric for years now, primarily because it doesn't relate to actual unique users.
p
> (In reply to clubwaddage)
> [...]
>
> Read the rest of the thread.
>
> It wouldn't be accepted as the industry standard if it gave a false figure.
>
> Alan
> [...]
>
> Read the rest of the thread.
>
> It wouldn't be accepted as the industry standard if it gave a false figure.
>
> Alan
Alan, nobody uses IP address counts for unique user figures. Please get that into your head. The audit bureau circulation electronic have ruled that out for as long as I've been working in the industry. Also, unique user figures for websites are known to not be an accurate reflection of actual individuals using your site. Its useful for comparing with other websites, as long as yo understand the different measurement techniques, however its basically useless for comparing across different media types. THE ABCe have been discussing renaming the metric for years now, primarily because it doesn't relate to actual unique users.
p
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Having seen both the lads climb inside and been burnt off by Randy on more than one occasion, all I can say is well done. I think if you look at where and what they are climbing on they are obviously serious allrounders.
I recently took my little boy who is 4 to Climb Rochdale and he was amazed by Randy and Matthew. As far as he is concerned they are already amazing role models.
Long may they continue. Best of Luck
Gareth
Having seen both the lads climb inside and been burnt off by Randy on more than one occasion, all I can say is well done. I think if you look at where and what they are climbing on they are obviously serious allrounders.
I recently took my little boy who is 4 to Climb Rochdale and he was amazed by Randy and Matthew. As far as he is concerned they are already amazing role models.
Long may they continue. Best of Luck
Gareth
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