UKC

I know this might seem a tad maudlin for a thread - but having been scouring books and magazines for research, its amazing how many obituraries appeared in the magazine in the early - mid 1990's and I wonder if some of todays climbers ever knew some of the names that were cruelly taken from us?

I'm not going to reel out a list - but just remembering the time when Rachel Farmer took the sport climbing world by storm sending the 1st female ascent of an 8a (Raindogs - Malham) and then short after lost her life - looking back - how cruel it all seemed that this talent was not allowed to flourish - as she was shaping up to be something special...

Not that I ever knew him - but Wolfgang Gullich stikes a chord in the same vein - a visionary - cruelly taken from the climbing community...

Not a thread to dramatise or sensationalise - just maybe one to reflect on who we have missed as a sport and just to hope their names will never be forgotton...

Any others that we should all doff our caps too in respect??

Cheers

Si

In reply to Simon: Thank you, you reminded me of a dear friend!

<doffing his cap>

In reply to Dringo:


Thats not a problem - glad U have good thoughts..

Si

In reply to Simon:

Pete Livesy very seldom mentioned these days..

In reply to Simon: Paul Nunn, Rachel Farmer, Paul Wiliams they tend to be the ones who I remember for different reasons at the time, but each had some impact on my personal view on climbing.

In reply to Simon:

Geoff Lamb (aka the Jackal) taken from us by a car crash in Australia IIRC.

He played a major role in eliminating aid points in the Lakes, as well as putting up some pretty fierce routes.

Along with Whillance, Armstrong, Botterill and others, - the Carlisle Lads dominated Lakes new routing in late 70's and 80's

In reply to Alan Stark:
I remember him as one of the nice guys, we bumped into each other in the hills both in Scotland and the Lakes.

In reply to Simon:

Alex Lowe was one of the guys that got me daydreaming of climbing big long routes, used to read about his explotes all the time:

http://www.exumguides.com/news/alexlowe.shtml

In reply to Simon:

I was flicking through Cubby's website yesterday and it made me realise how few folk seem to rise to the challenge of doing big routes(mountain routes) these days. I'm not exactly an old git but that's all I aspired to and it's still what I would consider my favoured ideal day out. Is it something to do with a lack of hard men thrashing oit out in hairy necky situations? I dunno. I feel that we are losing some of the adventurous spirit in the general climbing population. Sure we can all point to the like of Andy Kirkpartrick and Dave McLeod etc but how many average grade climbing folk head for the hills and more importantly stray from the classics?

Climbing is a dangerous sport. We risk life and limb and that's why we all enjoy it and get a kick from it. Folk sometimes get killed.

I doff my cap in respect to the folk who seek out new challenges in the hills.

ps I'm not having ago at you. Just got me thinking about why celebrate the dead.

In reply to Simon:

Nice topic. For me perhaps the most regrettable is Gullich, simply because he could have done a lot more that was equally cutting edge.

In reply to Fiend:

I'd also add that anyone who dies in "normal" climbing situations, or normal life situations, also strikes a chord, because it reminds us how easily life can be taken away even in an arena we think we are familiar with. So, Rachel Farmer is somewhat more poignant than say, Dan Osman.

In reply to Simon: In the late sixties I used to give Tony Willmot a lift down from London to Avon regularly, where he bivvied in Mercavity Cave. One of the leading climbers of his day he was also one of life's enthusiasts with fantastic names for his routes often named after Pink Floyd records. Heart of the Sun at Baggy is still one of my favourite routes.

I never got to climb with him, although I got the chance, because people said it would involve days on end just holding a rope while he tried some new desperate. I preferred to do my own thing, but it was great being in the company of such an enthusiast. It was so sad that he died soloing some easy route in the area he loved best. A waste.

I am sure that otherwise he would still be contributing to the climbing scene in his fifties and he would certainly have a lot to say to some of the posers on here. Anyone else remember Tony?

In reply to Norrie Muir:

The whole Carlisle crowd around that time were a great bunch.

The Carlisle Ceilidh at the tithebarn was a memorable event. They took their folk dancing rather seriously.

Their idea of 'Strip the Willow (widow)' was first find a widow - and if she was married that didn't seem to make much difference to them. My missus remembers being enthusiastically hurled across the floor between Geoff and big Mike!

There used to be some first class 'crack' at Armathwaite before walls were built!

In reply to Pete:
certainly do - bumped into him in Bergen in 72 as he & various others (Nipper, Neil etc) were off to Lofoten. Friendly cheeky guy, and soooo strong.
Also Laurie Holliwell, a real gent, very modest.
Paul Williams was a very nice bloke too.
John Kingston - was that a car crash (seems a lot of them).

In reply to Alan Stark: Oh my god, climbed with almost all of the people mentioned (except Rachel), in every case it was a complete shock when I heard that they had died, especially Paul and Jeff (surely not Geoff?) both of whom I regarded as immortal. More recently legends like John Sumner has just left us, and of course there was Don a few years ago now, interestingly, apart from Pete, the loss of more recent legends has thankfully seemed to slow down as of late.

In reply to IbexJim: Yeah I also remember Laurie Hollywell from the crowd that used to travel up from London to North Wales most weekends, although I didn't know him well. Another sad loss which highlighted the dangers of abseiling.

In reply to Al Evans:

how could I forget -- Jeff it most certainly was.

In reply to Pete:

Anyone else remember Tony?

I was in a bar with him in Chamonix in about 1970.

In reply to Alan Stark: "the Carlisle Lads dominated Lakes new routing in late 70's and 80's2

Ahem...along with a certain Messrs Cleasby and Matheson, of course...

In reply to Norrie Muir: Must have been the 'Bar Nash'. Used to bump into eveyrone there. Now, sadly, I see, trashed and turned into an 'up market' bistro or somesuch.

In reply to Norrie Muir: Was once at Tremadoc, Tony at that time used to wear huge flares I think they were called 'loons', Tony started off up First Slip, there was a huge downfall when he was about halfway up, I dont know if you have done First Slip, but believe me, its way delicate.
I was thinking how we could best organise the rescue, Tony just kept on going, doing moves I was convinced were impossible under the conditions, I still think it was the best lead I have ever seen. To be killed on a V Diff he did every day was tragic.

In reply to Simon:

Hats off to Derek Hersey.

In reply to Al Evans:

It certainly was. A lot of people thought that Tony was way to brash and extrovert, but it was just his natural enthusiasm. I found him to be an inspiration to my early climbing career. I remember him standing in the middle of the car park under Main Wall at Avon barracking two guys aiding Think Pink because he thought they would break off the flakes that he needed to free it. Said he had an ambition to do it or another new route with a loudspeaker van parked in the car park below blaring out Pink Floyd music. A character and a great loss to the climbing world.

In reply to Simon: God this is maudlin as you say. About the same time that I knew Tony Willmot I went on a Hamish McInnes Snow and Ice Course in February 1969 with some mates. (Ended up new routing with Hamish, but that's another story). During the week we met and did routes with Ian Clough and Jim McArtney (both smashing blokes). Jim met a girl off our course called Marianne (a delightful lady who sang and played guitar like an angel)and they later became an item. During the week we also met Nick Estcourt and Tom Patey came into the pub one night.

Within a matter of a relatively short time afterwards Ian Clough died when an ice serac collapsed on Everest, Jim and Marianne were avalanched off the Ben, Tom Patey was killed abseiling off a sea stack and Nick Estcourt was killed in the Himalayas. I remember it being a stark reminder that it is a dangerous passtime that we engage in. Part of the attraction though, I guess. At least those guys lived their lives to the full.

In reply to Al Evans:

>Tony at that time used to wear huge flares I think they were called 'loons', Tony started off up First Slip, there was a huge downfall when he was about halfway up

Remember them, Dave Cowan was doing Diagonal in similar conditions but with a gale blowing. As the gusts came we could see him clinging on from the Cromlech, his loons flapping fiercely in the wind. His Brother Don died in an avalanche in Cwm Glas some years later.

We were talking to the Hollywell brothers on the same abseil Laurie got killed on, he was cleaning the route ready to climb it.

Another person not mentioned, Beardie, one of the most enthusiastic all rounders there were. Climber, runner, skier, leader of children, young and old.

Ian Clough, again killed in an avalanche, is there a theme coming up of how climbers get killed, Escourt as well.

In reply to Pete:

No, it was the Alpenstock.

One night, he started on about "you people from the north". Nothing much happened as our friends from the Midlands and Merseyside, said to us Scots, "Sit down, the wanker is talking about us, not you lot, we'll shut him up.". They did, other that he was OK.

In reply to Pete:

Jim and Marianne were avalanched off the Ben,

Aye, Jim was a nice guy. I was in Glen Coe, and met Fregie who was looking for a partner to climbingon Ben Nevis. I told him I thought the conditions were garbage. So Fergie teamed up with John Grieve, Jim and Marianne. Sadly, only John survived the avalanche.

In reply to Norrie Muir: Sounds like Tony. He did sometimes have difficulty in shutting up. He was, as I said, 'an acquired taste', but you could not knock his enthusiasm, commitment and climbing ability.

In reply to Pete:

Yes, Pete, I knew Tony Willmot very well c.1968-69. He was extremely helpful in the YHA shop in London when we were preparing for a big trip to Norway, and he was in Romsdal when we were there. One of the great characters. Also, I went on a McInnes snow and ice course in March 1969 i.e. just after you, and so got to know Ian Clough and Jim McArtney. I also remember Al Rouse very well, and John Syrett even better (climbed with him quite a lot, and one memorable summer in the Alps with him - a bit like Willmot, but even more talented). Also was soloing once with the likes of Nick Estcourt and Al Rouse at Stanage (me being very much a weak man of the party!) Who else: Paul Williams, Paul Nunn, Nigel Helliwell, Dave Edwards, Mike Harber (knew v well from South Wales, also climbed with him in Cornwall. Disappeared in the Himalaya.) Tom Patey, a few times at Harrison's Rocks. Beardie - his sing-songs were unforgettable.

In reply to Simon:

No mention of Tom Proctor - superman!


Chris

In reply to Chris Craggs:

Yes, how could we forget? One of the greatest. I met him just once at a barbecue, about a year before he died (no sign of his illness yet) - what an incredibly nice, ridiculously modest guy he seemed. Here was the guy who first did Our Father, and then could solo it, in front of sceptics, in Hush Puppies. Who first did Green Death ... etc etc

In reply to Simon:

I Doff my cap to Graham West, very active in the Chew Valley lots of quallity first ascents, also early climbing on limestone crags of the Peak. Avalanched on Wilderness Gulley in the Chew, a route I do every winter.

When I started Jimmy Jewell was in the climbing mags for his soloing, and still to this day the photo of him on the Axe inspires me to climb.

Also John Seyrett for the routes he did at my local crag when I first started (Hetchells) and finding other quallity route to aspire to, which he had done as I progressed to other crags in Yorkshire.

I often wonder what Graham West would have achieved, possibly on a parr with Brown and Whillans? Maybe he did, but is still not that well known!

In reply to Gordon Stainforth: Glad you've mentioned John Syrett Gordon. I shared a lift to the Alps with him in 1972. As we all know, an enigmatic genius whose career was cut short by a stupid non-climbing injury. He never really got over it and took his own life in the mid-eighties. Also Dave Edwards, my regular climbing mate when I lived in London. I remember the three of us gate-crashing a party by climbing up the outside of a Leeds tower-block.

In reply to Andy Long:

Andy .. is it possible you were in the same car with me for some of the journey? I went all the way to the Alps in my mini with John Syrett in 1972, but I do remember we had other people with us along the way, if not for the whole journey. My god, my memory's hazy! Are you 'Jappo' Long, by any chance???

In reply to Gordon Stainforth: Yes I first met Tony in the YHA Shop. I worked a stone's throw from there and used to spend my lunchtimes talking to him. Sold me a double ventile jacket that I couldn't really afford, but he was a born salesman as well.

Did Hamish drag you up new routes on his course as well? We did two grade 4's and insisted that we got our names in the guidebook rather than 'Hamish McInnnes and party' and he was as good as his word. I suffered for that. Got frostbite and one of them was named Frostbite Wall after my damaged feet. One of the most enjoyable weeks of my life and I was so sad to hear later of the deaths of those great people that I had met. Jim especially was another one of life's enthusiasts.

In reply to Pete:

Yes, we did two new routes, rather trivial, high up on Gearr Aonach? behind the Lost Valley. One was called '999' if I remember correctly c.grade II/III, but I'm not sure it got in any guidebook. Main problem was the weather was very bad, but we still went out every day, because Hamish of course knew it all like the back of his hand, and we spent two days learning about ice climbing on a very good icefall, again, in the Lost Valley, I think.

>I suffered for that. Got frostbite and one of them was named Frostbite Wall after my damaged feet. One of the most enjoyable weeks of my life and I was so sad to hear later of the deaths of those great people that I had met. Jim especially was another one of life's enthusiasts.

Ditto. To have such a young, bright life cut short is really shocking. The vast majority of people here will sadly have never heard of him.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/review.cfm?id=2269182005

seems another forgotten climber, along with Gunn Clarke

In reply to sutty:

Yeah, sure. And he was a fantastically talented writer, too. Steve Dean was wanting to do a book about him for years, but Cruikshank has pipped him at the post. Sadly, I've heard that Cruikshank's book is a bit dry.

In reply to Simon: no mention of Alison Hardgreaves or Mark Miller, both inspirational and commited climbers who are sadly gone. what about Brendan Murphy and Andy Fanshaw?

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Yes, I am he, though I've not heard that moniker for many years. Thought I'd buried it for good.
You're right about the Cruikshank book. It's only because the subject is so interesting that I'm persevering with it.

In reply to Andy Long: What an horrifically tragic thread, did you know Paul Nunn was with Patey when he died, The theory was that he with typical scottish frugalness, he took one of the pegs out that the other lads, Paul included had gone down on, I guess we'll never know for sure. Its stupid, for a few bob, but I've done it myself.
Back to Tony, a measure of the man, when his friend, Was it Mike Spring, had an accident, Tony wrote to eveybody who had ever met him, myself included and asked us to write a letter to cheer him up. That was Tony to me, I never really noticed the brash side of him.
Can I also mention here Dave Pearce, another tragic accident that seems incomprehensible, I guess thats because thats what it was, an accident.
Many of these, others, like Pete and Tom, seem even more unfair in a way, two of the fittest strongest people I ever met, thiers I guess was an accident of nature, neither smoked or drank to excess or lived a lifestyle that deserved their end.
There are lots of people in ordinary life that suffer the same fate of course, however it happens its awful, but at least if it happens to us while out climbing, it seems less pointless in a way than what happened to Pete and Tom, but I guess you have to be a climber to think like that.
Just remembered, can I put in a note for Trevor Jones.,

In reply to Simon:

ali two names joe tasker alex macINTYRE REGARDS BRIAN

In reply to Al Evans:

I agree, although I did notice the brash side to me it was a genuine almost childish pleasure in life and dedication to climbing with boundless enthusiasm. Very genuine guy. I remember that someone, (I can't remember who), wrote an obituary including the phrase: "Tony's achievements never quite lived up to his ambitions". What a total dick! Whose achievements ever do quite match up to what they would like to do? You should always be striving for more and Tony achieved more than most in his short lifespan. I thought that was cheap, nasty and unnecessary.

In reply to Simon:

Jules Cartwright

In reply to Andy Long:

Good grief! I was obviously so 'nondescript' that you have no recollection of me in Cham in 1972, and of being on the Peigne with you, together with John Syrett and Angela Faller/Soper, I think??

In reply to Gordon Stainforth: Au contraire Gordon, I remember you well and have noted your photographic career over the years. It was Angela's mini-cooper that I remember John and me travelled to Cham in.
I also remember Al Evans from my days spent hanging round Langdale in the early 70's. I used to climb with Dave Harding - another good guy who died soloing a diff.
Andy

In reply to Al Evans:

yes but also fascinating and important to hear about these people. Just finishing Cruikshank's book - so terribly sad to lose all that talent, but what a man Smith was. I also liked the stories about the septuagenarian who was part of the scene with all these young hotshots, in the pub etc.

In reply to sutty:

I saw him crossing the river before he went up the hill. There was a lot of fresh snow about.

In reply to Simon: Arnis Strapcans

In reply to Simon:

1. Don Morrison.

2. In reply to Al Evans: I thought Tom Patey abbed off the end of his rope, you imply his anchor failed?

3. I note lots of references to trips to Chamonix in the early 70s. I'd be grateful if anyone who was in Chamonix in summer 1971 would make themselves known to me, preferably off-thread.

In reply to Martyn Maltby: As far as I know the anchor failed, I dont see how he could have abseiled off the end of the rope, the other lads reached the ground easily.

In reply to Al Evans:

I believe he was the last one down, and somehow became detached from the rope, I remember at the time his descendeur was still attached and they couldn't get the rope down.
Talk was of a tangle or clothing caught and in attempting to sort it he became unclipped.

Chris

In reply to Simon: Damien Cook. Met him at a student competition in Paris, back in '91. Lovely bloke, kept saying I should go deep-water soloing with him, way before it became popular. Never did and it's something I regret.

Andy F

In reply to Chris Craggs:
That is what I recall, also the rock gave way when he was fiddling about, so fell.

In reply to andy farnell:
I had the privilege of getting to know Damo, his brother Dom and their families in the Emirates in the late 90's.

Never climbed with him - he was way way out of my league, but he would always make time to give us bumblies tips on some of his boulder problems - and was never to cruel when we failed miserably to get more than a couple of metres off the ground! Good crack round the campfire. He and his missus even drove up teh 200 odd miles from Abu Dhabi with their firstborn (about 4-5 weeks old I think) for my leaving p155 up in Wadi Bih.

A lovely guy, who is sadly missed.

In reply to Simon:

J P de Rohan

In reply to Fiend: true, yet still Dan Osman what a guy such a shame.

In reply to Jake Avery:

Al Rouse - met him out in NZ in '85 and was going to Sheffield to visit when I heard he had died on K2.

Todd Skinner - again spent a bit of time with in the Valley in '88.

From down under Bill Denz, Craig Nottle