UKC

For all people here who has some interest in the Gran Paradiso area, it may be interesting to know that publisher Zanichelli has made available a fairly numerous batch of copie of "Gran Paradiso e Valli di Lanzo - le 100 più belle ascensioni", the Italian version of the classic (and now very much out of print) guidebook Gaston Rebuffat included in his "The 100 best climbs" series, as a follow up of the Mt. Blanc, Ecrins and Vanoise books.

Gaston, who at the time was fighting a protracted battle with cancer, asked area super-expert Giancarlo Grassi (for more information on Giancarlo read "Mountain Info" on the January issue of Climb) to write the book, who was published first by Denoel in France, then by Zanichelli in Italy. Some problem with the pictures and a general bias towards classic routes (and the fact that the Gran Paradiso was far from a fashionable area in the 80's) prevented the book to become a big editorial success in France. However, the Italian version continued to sell over the years, and very much used by enthusiasts of the area.

As for Rebuffat Mt. Blanc group guidebook of the same series, time has not be terribly kind with these book. Conditions and fashions have changed, and what was climbable and cutting edge in 1982 is often forgotten or little know in 2006 (expecially the altitude ice routes). However, as the Gran Paradiso area as always been very much all about wilderness, solitude and classic routes, this book may be a good way to rediscover a lot of routes that, often, are worth climbing as they were 25 years ago.

There has been however a lot of evolution on ice climbing (mainly in the Cogne area, thanks to the same Grassi) and on rock climbing, thanks to the astonishing granite structures on the south (Piedmont) side of the range. These are the subject of two others book, "Diamanti di Cristallo" (Crystal Diamonds), 1994 complete guide to Cogne and the Aosta Valley ice climbing by the same Grassi and guide Aldo Cambiolo, and Maurizio Oviglia's masterful "Rock Paradise", his 2002 guide on all modern rock climbing available in the rage. Both books are must-buy if you're even remotely interested in the area.

The big merit of the original 1982 guidebook, beyond the choice of classics, is to have opened a window over climbing not only on Gran Paradiso, but also on the Lanzo Valleys, the group of mountains immediately south of GP and west of Turin, a wild area that has a lot to offer in terms of climbing (both for ice and rock), but is hardly frequented by anyone besides the local.

As soon as other commitments will allow me to, I'll finish a list of the climbs included on the book for SummitPost.Com, with a revision of the grades. I'll post here the link.

In reply to Luca Signorelli: As usual Luca, thanks for your helpful and friendly supply of information and "insider knowledge".

In reply to Luca Signorelli: The recent French reprints of the Mt Blanc & Ecrins volumes have a newly written appendix with some suggested 'new classics' plus revised gradings for the old routes - does the Gran Paradiso reprint do the same ?

And any idea where can I get a copy of "Les Alpes du Sud à Ski" in the same series at a reasonable price ? seems to sell for silly money whenever I've seen a copy here in Paris

In reply to Luca Signorelli:

Is it possible to get in hand of Diamanti di Cristallo? The liberia la montagna should have it, right? I have been looking for it a long time?

We climbed Becca di Moncorvè last weekend and the route of Oggioni and to quote you: "...However, as the Gran Paradiso area as always been very much all about wilderness, solitude and classic routes..." I can not more then agree!

- Christian

In reply to Luca Signorelli: Luca, you need to write a "Neige, mixte et Glace", for The Gran Pardiso and The Italian side of Mont Blanc...

In reply to Doug:

Since Denoel's demise, Rebuffat titles have been property of the Rebuffat estate, and managed as such. "Gran Paradiso" text was property of Giancarlo (Grassi). For a complex set of reasons, Giancarlo's widow is (at least so far) not terribly interested on revamping his late husband literary legacy. Which is a real pity, as a couple of his titles ("Gran Paradiso" and especially "Western Ice", his '89 guide to all icefalls on the Italian side of the Western Alps) would be, in a new editions, a big event for all those into ice climbing in the Western Alps. Not the least because it would finally convince people that there's plenty to ice climb here beyond Cogne!!!!

I can tell you something about this tomorrow evening.

In reply to chrtur:

This title it's out of print and difficult to locate - the "Libreria" has no copies of it right know. They can locate however one at request (it does take some time). However, I've heard that Cambiolo is working on a new edition.



Well, congratulations! The Oggioni is a splendid route, a great classic and a fine way to climb Gran Paradiso. I'0m actually quite fond of the Becca di Moncorvé, even just because is the first mountain I see (30 km away!) every clear morning when I open my bedroom window! Actually, there are several top-notch routes there, expecially the Lorenzi '71 (still the hardest "classic" route of the entire Gran Paradiso range), and also the Manera route and "Alison" at the nearby Punta Marco (at least, that how they look like from Oviglia's descriptions and pictures).

I guess there was no snow, and very little ice... or not?

After the Oggioni, you should really check (in late springtime) the Leonessa-Tron at the W face of the Becca di Valsoera. It's not hard as the routes on the NW face (like the Mellano-Perego), but it's 800m long and the rock is splendid.

And then all the rest in the south side of the range... Courmaon, Monte Destrera, Cresta dei Prosces...

In reply to Jasonic:

Well, as soon as someone gives me a couple of years of remunerated climbing weekends...

In reply to Luca Signorelli:

Thanks for info, Luca. I will look out for a copy in our climbing bookshop.

As various comments make clear, there is limited up-to-date guidebook information for Italy compared with other Alpine countries, even in Italian, never mind English.
Note in passing that about one third of the entire Alps is inside Italy (the rest is shared between France, Switzerland, Austria, and Slovenia), and the only really major area in which Italy does not have a "foot" is the Oberland (and arguably the Grossglockner in Austria). Italy is less expensive, the weather is better, the food is much better, and there are other "advantages" too ...

But the guidebooks are mostly out-of-date or out of print. Although things do seem to be improving - am I right Luca?

In reply to Luca Signorelli:

Ok then I still have to stick with my papercopy But it would be nice to have a real one, maybe I will speak with the Liebreria if they can get on. Not to meantion the Nord-Ovest by Grassi which takes you out from Aosta....

The Oggioni was very nice and almost no snow on it together with a hot day, and we were completely alone on the mountain. As Luca says the other routes are quite hard but would be very nice do to. The Punta Marco is on a project list since I would really like to pitch it out to the top.

By the way, many thanks for the recommendation of th Leonessa-Tron! I am now looking in the guide of Ovigilia and looks very nice. I am one of those very fond of the Gran Paradiso range I would be pleased with more good suggestions at any time.

Ciao, Christian

In reply to Luca Signorelli:

Ok, I've made check, and it's basically impossible to get without spending something between 50 to 60€ (apparently is very sought after tile). Sorry for not being able to help more.

In reply to chrtur:

If you're interested there are few copies of "Ghiaccio dell'Ovest / Western Ice" available in the second edition, the one Cambiolo edited after Giancarlo's death in 1991.

As for "Diamanti di Cristallo", I've been confirmed that Cambiolo is working on a new and improved edition, but there's not release date set. This said, there are also rumours about Ezio Marlier is working on something similar (and there's guidebook on his "Ice Tour" that's being released very soon).


There are dozens of worthwile great routes in the area, just browse "Rock Paradise" and you'll pick up a lot of them. Personally, the Via Della Torre Nera at the Cresta dei Prosces and the Mare Percia are at the top of my tick list there.

Adriano Trombetta is equipping plenty of new stuff on the Noaschetta valley, and thus it's not included in "Rock Paradise", but you can check some detail here

http://www.guidelatraccia.com/sitonuovo/portale/settimana/roccia/noaschetta...

One may not agree with Adriano's attitude toward bolting and retrobolting, but he's one hell of a climber, that' for sure.

And of course there the Vallone di Sea and Marco Blatto's ongoing mega re-equipment project, but if you're a regular here you've probably heard about it...

In reply to Gavin Taylor:

There's a huge lack of balance. Several areas are hyper-documented, very often excessively (and confusely so). Others are suffering, as you say, from chronical lack of documentation. The western Alps are a good case to the point - areas like Rocca Sbarua, the Chisone/Sangone valleys, Bourcet, Tre Denti di Cumianana, etc had several ovelapping guidebooks because local activists are quite keen on promoting their works. You go just a bit north, in the area between the Susa Valley, Lanzo and Gran Paradiso, and puff, beyond Oviglia's "Rock Paradise" and "Passaggio a Nord Ovest", and Blatto's guidebook on Sea, there's very little of up-to-date. And we're speaking of one of the greatest concentration of granite/gneiss climbing in the entire bloody Alps!!! If you take in account only the Susa, Lanzo and Orco valleys, there are something like 150 different climbing locations you can choose from, and more than 1200 different routes, half of them multipitch... and the majority of the traffic is local, because a lot of people simply doesn't know the stuff it there.

The big merit of Oviglia is that his "Rock Paradise" has put the Orco area back on the map (I mean, the Caporal and Sergent walls have some of Europe's best granite climbing, and are of great historical significance too), but it's really just the tip of the iceberg.

In reply to Luca Signorelli: Thanks for looking, 50-60 € is not as bad as the 100€ I saw last. I'll keep looking in the bouquenistes, maybe one day I'll be lucky

In reply to Luca Signorelli:

I think we also have to thank the publishing house "Versante sud" - they are filling a big gap.

Another example of an information "hole" was ice climbing in the eastern Italian alps. Even living here it was difficult to get information, mostly by word of mouth from guides or activists. The selective guidebook "Ghiaccio Verticale" was completely out of print for at least four years. Many people had the impression that apart from Val Daone and Sottoguda there wasn't really much ice climbing over here. Then, just the other week, Francesco Capellari (bless his soul) published the new edition, in two volumes, and suddenly we discovered that we were surrounded by over one thousand icefalls (in a normal winter!).

Another case - the very interesting winter climbing in the Piccole Dolomiti was excellently documented in a dedicated modern guidebook, which almost immedately went out of print. I have a copy but I never take it out of the house for fear of losing it (I managed to get perhaps the "very last copy" by writing to the author himself, who very kindly searched in his bookshelf and found one spare).

The bolt climbing around arco is a good example of what you say about confusing over documentation. After a silence for a few years suddely two guides are published that contradict each other, sometimes even for the names of the routes, never mind the grades.
One of these very usefully included crags in and around Trento, but incredibly left out the two best and most important locations, which remain more or less completely anonymous.

Not to speak of the mountaineering guidebooks, some of which date back to the 1930s!

Luca knows what my Italian friends say about this:
"Pazienza Gavin, siamo in Italia."
And in a sense, they're right ("Relax, you're in Italy".)

In reply to Luca Signorelli:

This one I already have, but thanks. I meet some Scottish climber this weekend in Valnontey and asked them if they know about ice-climbing in other valleys such as Varaita for example and they looked like? Is there more ice-climbing then Cogne?


Ok, yes the Tour of Eizo I follow and with the site you can get a lot of information, and I actually suppose that this is his plan. Otherwise it would not make any sense to document everything like they do know? They tick off in principle every possible ice-climb as it looks.


Thanks again, sometimes it is nice to have some recommendations since there are so many to pick from, I would like to do the nice fine first.

- Christian

In reply to Gavin Taylor:

They're doing a rather good job, but I think that basically they're very lucky Maurizio (Oviglia) is working for them. The main reason "Rock Paradise" is sooooo good as a guidebook is that Maurizio understands one of the great truths of mountain-going in every form - without a mythology, climbing is just a pointless activity on some pile of rock. He took a great care on explaining the history and up and downs on every area, basically showing "what really happened, where and when", and (explaining the personalities of those who climbed there) gave some character to the routes. You read "Rock Paradise" and you think that, climbing these route, you're going to follow some remarkable footstep, not just "go somewhere"

On the other hand, my big problem with Damilano's "Snow, Ice and Mixed" is precisely that - not much the incoherent/ grades or the lack of timings, but the fact that most of the routes are totally undistinguishable one from the other. Apart from the grades and the picture, you don't get really the feeling that, let's say, the north face of the Jorasses is THAT different from the Talefre or the bloody Tacul. The vol II is particularly disappointing on that respect, as it covers the areas of MB where most of the big epics happened. I would have rather seen a more selective choice of routes with maybe a bit more space dedicated to the "character" of these lines.



The problem is that most italian guidebooks are individual projects, the product of the (often obsessive) interest of someone who knows very well the area and has the time and the resources to produce a book. You'll have probably already noticed that a lot of these are self-published - it's not that the industry is not interested (all these guidebooks go sold-out very quickly). It's that there are few publisher here who can wait (and pay) for someone to spend two, three years researching a guide.



Again - being these often self-published projects, the number of copies available are almost always chronically scarce.

And the situation on the Eastern Alps is basically much better than here!


That's the other problem of guidebooks in Italy. Being the product of the effort of individuals or small groups, there's ALWAYS a huge lack of coordination. So it's "all or nothing" - you get gigantic hole in the map (with areas that have been covered the last time 30 years ago, see the Western Pennine Alps - I mean, Gran Combin/Velan etc!), and places that get one or two guides every year, maybe "quickies" produced by a group because the want to upstage some rival


Again a problem related with an uncoordinated, "voluntary" system of writing.


That's the problem with the CAI/TCI guidebooks. In theory, it's the best line of guidebooks ever published - period. In practice, the editorial line of CAI is to cover the entire Alps (over a period of 80 years!!!!!) but never fund reprint/re-issues. The result is that "Monte Bianco II", the guidebook covering the Geant/Rochefort/Jorasses/Talefre/Triolet area of MB, for whom the late Gino Buscaini collected an enormous amount of material (and who would be probably the ultimate Mt. Blanc guidebook), will likely never be published, because CAI/TCI is not taking a decision on allocating the funds (and appointing a new coordinator!) to have it written! Aargggh...


Actually, that's what they want you to believe. You're in Trento, so you may have heard that one of the key phrases in that area is "faso tuto mi" - in local dialect, "I'll do all on my own". They're a very individualist lot, quite far away from the clichée of the laid-back Italians.

In reply to Luca Signorelli: That is why if you produced one it would be a success! One of the sponsors of this site, Rockfax, have made a success out of producing selected guides to both new and established areas. Most guidebook writers seem to be volunteers and enthusiasts, who fit in the task between other activities. All you need is the funding...

I always just agree with Luca and this is something wich is very nice with the book, if you understand italian, that it is just a little more then a guidebook with topos. If you look at the photos and drawings with the text you get inspired to climb not just a topo with some grades. Then you have very nice maps in the beginning of each chapter of the valleys so that you can an easy understanding where to go.

But, there are some small things to be aware of, sometimes it is not exact and you also have to look at other sources it you pick a route. All the routes are not described in detail, but this is also very nice if you want to do a route, it gets a little exploring...

Another nice area that I think people sometimes do not look at is the moutains around Viso where I have done several climbs being completely alone on the mountains, for this area the topos are even harder to find. A particular place I am quite fond of is Il gruppo Castello-Provenzale where you feel a little historical when climbing, there exists a small topobook....

The main point is that if you find a guidebook, just buy it directly or make a photocopy of it, otherwise you will never know when you will see it...

Ci vediamo, Christian

In reply to Jasonic:

OK - so Luca writes and I translate into English.
Where is the funding?

My own (crazy?) idea was a general guide for each area giving a selection of: classic mountaineering, trad. rock climbing, bolt climbing, ice climbing, ski mountaineering, via ferratas.
Maybe enough to give at least one week's activity in each category, and - exactly as Luca says - concentrate on giving some of the history and climbing culture, rather than just millions of routes.

In reply to Gavin Taylor & Luca
I get the impression that ski mountaineering is relatively well covered by guides in Italy but would welcome any comments on the list at
http://perso.orange.fr/doug.evans/booklist.htm
esp
http://perso.orange.fr/doug.evans/booklist.htm#italy

Doug

In reply to Doug:
In reply to Doug:

Not in the English language, and indeed even in Italian the coverage is pretty chaotic, for the reasons that Luca explained so well above.

My experience is simply that lots of people ask me for info in English (on all types of climbing) and I don't know where to point.

In reply to Gavin Taylor:

Maybe approach Baton wicks, Cicerone press, Cordee, Ernst press to see if any of them are interested in doing guides to the areas that need them. Seems a shame that the Italian clubs are behaving as the BMC did years ago.