UKC

Just wondering if anyone has tried to use a 10.5mm Single with an 8.5mm Half Rope for trad and had any major problems with it.

I cant afford to buy a second Half rope at the moment and my current climbing partner is a sport climber/boulderer so i am having to improvise with my ropes a bit.

Only problems i can forsee with it is finding a decent enough belay plate that will manage both ropes easily.
Plan on using a petzl reverso at the moment as they are by far the most adabtable belay devises around!

In reply to Invincible Ed:

I manage fine with a 9mm half and a 9.2 single. 9mm and 10.5 has been fine in the past too

In reply to Invincible Ed: There shouldn't be any problem. It was common when I started climbing for people to use a 9/11mm combination. The correct belay device is the key to doing this safely. We used to use a 9/11mm Sticht plate. If you can get hold of one of these you should be safe enough.

Andy

In reply to Invincible Ed:

If the routes are straight forward and do not involve traverses, do you really need two ropes? And all the additional faff!

In reply to Chris Tan Ver. XLIX SP2:
Setting up belays with two ropes is so easy its worth the extra faff imo!
Plus the extra flexability just makes climbing on two ropes a pleasure rather than faffing about with extra extenders and long runners to reduce rope drag on a single!

In reply to Invincible Ed:

Personally I use the same belay device (ATC XP) if I am using two half ropes or if I'm using a single rope, so I wouldn't expect problems mixing ropes in this respect.

You have to be careful with connecting two ropes with different diameters for abseiling, certain knots cannot be used.

Cheers,
Michel

In reply to Invincible Ed:

I'd be really careful about doing this, as others have said the belay device will be be the difference between it working and being really unsafe. For example I have a look at doing this with a normal ATC and it was a disaster waiting to happen

In any case make sure you have a test where both ropes are threaded through the belay plate and the thinner one is fully weighted

In reply to Martin Thompson:
I do agree, but i think using a petzl reverso which works well with both ropes should be ok! Dont really want to spend any more money on an new belay plate as that money can go towards getting a matching half rope!

In reply to Invincible Ed: You need to be careful these days as at least two people I know have had near misses due to incompatability of belay devices and ropes. The current "bees knees", is apparently the BD rival to the reverso, which is very popular with instructors for that reason.

In reply to Invincible Ed:
The newer reversos with grooves in the braking bar are good, the older ones make hanging onto a slick rope quite tricky, esp combined with a thicker rope.

In reply to whispering nic:

In my experience the old Reverso (which I have) can be a bit unnerving if belaying a heavy climber on a slick rope - getting sufficient friction can be hard work. I got myself an ATC-XP and it's far more reliable with a range of ropes.

In reply to Invincible Ed: I've regularly used a beal stinger and an iceline on trad climbs, mainly when trying to save weight on trips abroad - works great - i think the stinger is 9.2 (single) and the iceline 8.1.

Having said that, I found that the BD ATC Guide (their rival to the Reverso) didn't work well with thick ropes. I tried it using some of the ropes at Craggy and it was really difficult to feed the ropes through. They were probably 11mm though.


In reply to Jasonic:

In reply to Chris Sansum:

(it is the best belay device I've come across in other situations though).

In reply to Chris Sansum:

Theoretically using these two ropes together should be a no no as the 10.5 mm is only certified as a single rope, when used with another rope it will not stretch enough on a big fall to be called dynamic.

However you would need to take a massive winger before this had an effect and a slight lack of dynamic quality in one of your two ropes would be the least of your problems.

So in practice quite safe I would say.

Gary

In reply to Invincible Ed:

sorry if this is super obvious or has been mentioned before - if you are doing shortish routes just double up one rope.

In reply to Invincible Ed:
Thanks all for the responses! Will see how i go with the combination, but am cutting costs and hope to get another half rope soon, so this is only temporary!

In reply to Invincible Ed:

This is dangerously missing the point. The problem isn't that a belay device doesn't work ok with two very different sized ropes if used with them singly, but what happens when you use them together. The problem is as your hand closes and pulls the rope tight whilst belaying you will be doing this for the thicker rope and the thinner might slide.

I've seen someone fall much further than he should have because of exactly this happening. The belayer is a very experienced climber who I've never seen give a bad belay before so I'm pretty certain that it was the fatter rope stopping his hand from holding the thinner rope properly - then the climber fell onto to the thinner rope.

In reply to michel4388:

I googled a bit, and this one is intersting:
http://www.aqvi55.dsl.pipex.com/climb/ab-tips.htm

However, the overhand knot does seem to be used quite a bit as well. Still, maybe use the double fishermans to be sure.

Cheers!
Michel

In reply to TobyA:

Yes, I can vouch for this happening too so i'd now never use such a mismatched air

Admittedly as a relative beginner I was belaying a heavy partner on a 9 and an 11. I had the 11 locked off but (in hindsight)not the 9 and when he came off, with top gear on the 8.5 he ended up with a 25-footer and i ended up with rope burns on my hands.

I think there are 2 problem areas:

when you've got the 11 locked off but the radius isn't sharp enough to lock off the 8.5 - the problem i experienced

When you're feeding rope out. It's more of a pain (i.e. slower to do so gives more time effectively unbelayed) and you've also got to move the ropes to the point that the 11 will run through the belay device, in which case there's virtually no friction on the 8.5 at all.

It's not an experience i want to repeat as either a leader or a second!

Steve