UKC

I had a bit of a 'moment' the other day when a friend announced that she was 'into' climbing. I suddenly felt a bit put out - partly because she is more the bimbo/shopping/drinking sort and partly because I suppose I see it as my thing with my mates. I felt the urge to grill her on her climbing credentials to establish whether she was one of those Westway chicks who just clutter up the wall looking pretty.

And then I thought I was being a bit of a prat. I mean, climbing's for everyone, right? We should just all be able to live and let live, and whoever wants to do it should be able to do it. (Though a little bit of me would prefer that some of them just stuck to London climbing walls...)

And then I got to thinking, well, actually, a lot of the climbers I've known have been kind of cliquey - especially the 'proper' ones in clubs and things. And maybe it's related to whether you see yourself as a climber, or a person who climbs. I'm very firmly the latter, boasting no wonderful grades or credentials, so maybe a lot of people would prefer it if I didn't climb... I just do it for my own enjoyment with my friends and it's not about first ascents and logbooks (though a log cabin with a bouldering wall will shortly feature in the garden).

So, do you feel proprietary about climbing? Is this justified, or is there room for everyone? (I'm thinking about things like: impatience with newbies, youth groups taking up crag space, city types bouldering in their lunch breaks, bimbos posing round climbing walls, top-ropers, sport climbers and boulderers!) Could the climbing community be more tolerant, or is it too tolerant already?

PS On grilling, she conceded that she hadn't been 'in a while'. Does this kind of thing indicate that maybe climbing's just a cool thing to say you do?

In reply to Nao:

The only people who shouldn't be allowed to climb are the ones who are better than me within two weeks of starting. Unfortunately, that probably applies to quite a large chunk of the population...

In reply to Nao:

>)

that IS the climbing community.

In reply to Nao:
And what exactly is wrong with Bimbos posing around climbing walls?

In reply to Nao:

Climbing is for everyone, if you enjoy it then you shouldnt be put off taking part, for example by people who climb better than you. Each to their own.
In some ways the climbing commuinty is tolerent, in others not. I think the one think alot of us have in common is being like minded, easy going people who encourage people to get into the sport but then again alot of people get frustrated when we see school groups cloging up the crag.
Personally i climb to get away from day to day life, have time in the countryside and live on the wild side... if you get my drift. If you have an adventurous side then you wont mind walking that extra distance to get away from the crowds. If you dont then dont complain and except the odd occasion when a group of beginners get in your way.
Yes, there is room for everyone in the sport and im sure some people boast about it to make them feel cool. But hey, who cares. Go out and enjoy your self.

In reply to J1234:

You go ask a leader that's just been dropped

In reply to Nao:

The only people I don't want climbing are those that have no respect for the enviroment they're in and the people around them when climbing outdoors.

Chavs climbing, top-roping, youth groups don't bother me done in a responsible way that doesn't adversly effect the people around them.

What really annoys me is people who leave litter and upset landowners. Losing access affects everyone.

In reply to Chris Tan Ver. XLIX SP2:
Hey, if you've got a surplus of crag hotties down there, I'm sure we could (somehow) make space for them up here.

-Magnus

In reply to Nao:

For me, climbing's for everyone and anyone, as long as they respect the environment when they're climbing outside.

However, climbing's certainly become something that it's "cool" to say you do. There have apparently been several articles in "Hello-y" type magazines over the last couple of years talking about "celebrities" who do it, and an upsurge in weekend supplements about it (according to the Sunday Times the other week, "climing essentials" kit includes a £150 pair of trousers....that's obviously where I'm going wrong!).

Camping started to become trendy a couple of years back, and now I see that several articles recently in papers and magazines read by the "Islingtonistas" have been extolling the virtues of wild camping (and talking about how "wild" campers look down on their campsite using colleagues as "mild campers"... never heard the term myself, despite having wild camped for 30-odd years).

Just bear in mind that fashions pass, and in a couple of years they'll all be off "bigging up" something else, and we'll be able to settle back into our nice little ruts without worrying about Paris Hilton or Keira Knightly appearing down at the wall or crag for a nice photo-opp .

In reply to Rob Naylor:


And when the fad does pass, there'll be all this cheap, brand new gear on that auction site!

In reply to Rob Naylor:

actually, did i read that Keira Knightly *has* been seen at the wall somewhere? if so, which one.....

In reply to JonC:

Bear Rock?

In reply to JonC:

I thnk the Keira Knightly issue needs to be looked into, i would definately train more if she was there!?! Lol

In reply to JonC: she was spotted (Hah!! sorry for the pun) at craggy where she was photo(shopped) doing a 9a,,,







well maybe not, but she was there.

In reply to JonC:

Craggy Island.

In reply to Chris Tan Ver. XLIX SP2:
I`d be asking him why he wasn`t belaying and enjoying the view, serves him right.

In reply to J1234:

The view may have been better from the top

In reply to Chris Tan Ver. XLIX SP2:
In that case his fall could have been strategic and well cushioned.

In reply to Nao:


Hey! I totally get what you mean.

I know it's not rational, or even very nice, but with some people it can just grate on you when they ‘stray’ into your space in a certain way, even though you can love spending time with them in a different environment.

I guess it depends on the friend and the relationship you have with them. I am the last person in the world to take myself and my feeble attempts at climbing seriously, and love doing it with lots of other people, but, occasionally, especially with someone who likes to lord it over me at every other opportunity, it’s a bit like having your sister tell you that she think’s your boyfriend is cute....

It makes me nervous that my efforts will be belittled and dismissed and I’m not going to enjoy it as much if they’re there, (and, God forbid doing it better than me?!)

So yes. I get it. I may not like it, or what it says about me, but I get it.

In reply to Nao: What I find strange is people that say they are climbers then you find out that they went climbing once 20 or so years ago. I have been in a cannoe once a long time ago, but that does not make me a kyacker (sp?).

I really think that it's either this 'cool' thing that is making anyone that has ever been inside a climbing wall or who has ever touched rock into a climber.

Or it is because they don't really do anything except go to the pub or work and so have nothing really to talk about.

In reply to Nao: As you've not replied yet can I be the first to say - Troll!!


:oD

In reply to Nao:
Sorry, but as where I climb I don't meet these type of people, so I can't comment how I feel about them.

Do you go climbing or what?

In reply to Nao:


... she was one of those Westway chicks who just clutter up the wall looking pretty.


You've answered the question for me there

In reply to Nao: If I go, I go to do my own thing, hopefully without hacking the population at large off completely!
The aim is to get my head out of work, and DIY, and have fun with friends.
Anything more serious, you carry on, it's not my thing.

And if there ARE glamorous women out there, how come I only seem to see 'crag hags'?

8^)

TTG

In reply to O Mighty Tim:

Hmmm, does Mrs TTG know that you refer to her in that way?

Don't mind at all what other people do; climb, not climb, get out of their heads... it's all the same to me, provided they don't inflict their egos on others.

Climbing is about having fun. Too many folks forget that, I think.

In reply to O Mighty Tim:

And if there ARE glamorous women out there, how come I only seem to see 'crag hags'?

You are so dead Tim, wait till Vlad, Tiggs, Julie, the Carolyns, Jo, Marie, Annie, Bambi, CJD, Janine, Cleddy, Rose, GK, Alison,Ayshea, Sarah, Emma, Gemma, HELEN, Jenny, Anne, Kate, Sandrine, Louisa, Michele, Nao, Mita, Rosie, Sam, Sue, Wingnut, and any I have forgotten get you.

In reply to Norrie Muir:

More to the point, do you? Forget what you did sixty years ago <yawn> do you do anything now? I doubt it.

In reply to Nao:
>bimbos posing round climbing walls


Fine by me so long as I get to look. I pray that my much loved girlfriend isnt reading this.

In reply to Nao:

And from your profile "Why I've never done trad and am a lesser person for it.". Have you ever climbed?

In reply to Kipper:


Good question.

In reply to smart guy:

This is a topic you nothing about, so, drink your tea and get back to your knitting.

In reply to Norrie Muir: How many times do I have to tell you Norris? Not tea, but Strongbow.

In reply to Nao: i think the only people who shouldnt be climbing are those who dont respect the enviroment, the people who have been climbing for years and are useless are just there to be laughed at.

In reply to smart guy:

Aye, right.

Drink your tea and get back to your knitting.

In reply to Glyn Jones:

Ha ha! No, last minute (about 3hrs notice) work trip to Amsterdam - afternoon spent travelling. No crags here!

In reply to Kipper:

Well, that depends whether you think trad is the be all and end all of climbing, doesn't it? Which is kind of what I was getting at in the OP. Yes, I've never done trad. I do sport, bouldering, top roping on my local crags (Southern Sandstone - we don't have trad) and climbing walls. And as I said in my OP - I don't call myself a climber - I'm just someone who enjoys climbing (or what I would refer to as climbing, but you'd probably call something derogatory).

I think you've answered the OP rather nicely though - you're obviously one of the cliquey set who'd prefer certain people not to climb.

In reply to Nao:



I got pulled in a night club cos I said I was a climber - after finding out that she liked shopping and shoes etc and wasn't remotely interested in climbing - things kinda died from there -

I think that people either get it or don't - and to be honest - its quite nice to be in the climbing arena - its all a secret language after all!!

all good!

si

In reply to Nao:

I don't mind who climbs.

as long as they don't climb near *me*.

I 'ate people, me.

In reply to WockWabbit:

Phew! I'm not the only one then! I feel that way too. It's strange though - sort of irrational, surely.

IRT Rob et al: The people who damage the environment really get to me. We often get litter at our local crag, and people have left broken glass on some climbs that we had to clear away (it was out of sight in a crack and someone might have slapped up on it). It's so frustrating. And people who light campfires on the sandstone - I don't know why they do that. I guess the problem with sandstone is that it's so easily damaged - not just by the graffiti (and am I the only one who thinks that the anti-graffiti signs just encourage 'rebels' to do it?) but also by climbers.

In reply to CJD:
did wonder where Si O'Connor had gone

In reply to CJD:

Ha! I always have quite friendly ideas about newbies. But then when we are overwhelmed by townies and bimbos I seem to get a bit antsy. I can't stand it when everyone's standing round the crag watching - it really puts me off. But that's not cliquiness, that's more nerves and feeling like I'm rubbish!

In reply to Nao: Personally I don't care who climbs - as long as they leave their wallet at the foot of the crag.....

In reply to Nao:

nah, was only joking - but given the choice I'll always seek out a quieter crag. the likes of stanage popular or froggatt or wherever, are my idea of hell in terms of there being too many other people and me feeling distracted and self conscious.

In reply to Nao:
Naturally I prefer crags that are completely empty to get that feeling of remoteness, but on popular crags I like the complete opposite. Much better when everyone's having a laugh and admiting to being s**t-scared a couple of feet off the floor. Not keen on cliquey groups that take it all too seriously and act superior. Climb for fun goddammit! oh god, I'm ranting...

In reply to Nao:

Classy. Could you define "townies" please?

In reply to CJD:

Time you went to the IOM, I used to feel quite put out if we saw more than two parties walking on the hills in a day, or another party who were not in the local club.

In reply to Blue Straggler:

people that DON'T live in a village with a population of 5. i'm in trouble.

In reply to Blue Straggler:

No

In reply to philo:


Less of your cheek, sunshine.

In reply to Blue Straggler:

I always find this quite an interesting term, it has always been used in quite a negative way by country folk when referring to people who live in towns, or at least people who do not follow their Coutryside Alliance Law of the Land, but in the early 90's in my part of the world it was used to describe to sort of disseffected youths that people now call Chav's.

In reply to Nao:


Yes, you were (way too much social pigeon-holing going on in your head). If someone says they've taken up climbing I see it as an opportunity. For example a friend who was always the city/shopping type got into climbing recently and I now have an invite to the Gunks, her local climbing area.

In reply to Blue Straggler:

People who can't understand "country ways".

In reply to Rob Naylor:

>(according to the Sunday Times the other week, "climing essentials" kit includes a £150 pair of trousers....

Yeah, but to be fair, they were probably techno-weaved from pure unobtainium.

I once saw Johnny Dawes do probems on a bouldering wall that made my eyes pop out. On his feet were a pair of cheapo suede trainers that looked like something your mum would buy you off the market for £8. Imagine how awesome he'd be with a pair of £150 strides.

In reply to Nao:
to establish whether she was one of those Westway chicks who just clutter up the wall looking pretty.

But they do look pretty

In reply to CJD:
Stanager popular is puuuurrrrrfect, even my cat likes it.

In reply to Al Evans:

I've only climbed at stanage twice. it's just too full of other people.

In reply to Tony Naylor: Tescos do great climbing pants.

In reply to Irton Pike:

I think you mean 'People who don't live in The Sticks'.

In reply to Nao:

I have stick-bound in-laws.

}}:-|

In reply to Richard Bradley: What, you just step onto them and they put themselves on?

In reply to CJD: Walk up to High Neb, turn left, walk along a bit, great climbs few or no people.

In reply to jonnie3430: almost

In reply to Nao:

Anyway, getting back to your original question I'd prefer climbing to be the domain of uncertain people.
Like me.



I think.

In reply to Irton Pike:
You can take trad, I don't want it anyway!

Actually someone on here has volunteered to take me tradding so I may be cluttering up your precious un-bolted crag sometime soon!