UKC

i climb at mile end about 2-3 times a week thinking it'll help me improve my grade. will that actually help me or am i just wasting my time?

In reply to jinxxxy:

Sure it can't do any harm. What grade are you climbing at now? Do you climb much outside, if so bouldering, trad or sports?

If nothing else will help with fitness, conditioning and technique.

I climb mile end when work permits, mostly weekdays on days off. Maybe see you there sometime.

i suppose. my problem is, i'm teeny tiny. as compared to alot of climbers there... i'm about 153cm. so i end up having to be too complacent with climbing easier routes because the more difficult routes tend to be too stretchy. those blasted route setters. so, despite being able to crimp, use monos, etc, i can't do the routes because of my height.

In reply to jinxxxy:

Try jumping
p

In reply to jinxxxy: Why don't you ask them if you can set a few routes.

In reply to jinxxxy:
oh, i forgot to say. i'm very new to climbing outdoors. just had my first experience today, climbing on sandstone. VERY COOL. i'm an indoor climbing girl. i might've met you before. just don't know who you are?

In reply to Hotbad Peteel: easy for you to say! i've tried...

In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut: don't think they'd want me to. i'm not 'experienced enough.' i'm guessing that's what they'd say.

In reply to jinxxxy:

try harder
p

This can be frustrating indoors as the number of possible alternative ways of doing a move can be limited.
However it shouldn't stop you doing hard (for you) problems.
What it does do is make nonsense of the grading system.
A route graded 6a should be harder than a problem graded 5c for the average climber but not necessarily for you.
Just ignore the grades & find problems at the limit of what you are capable of, keep an eye out for alternative ways of getting round those long reaches and don't despair
climbing on rock the grades are much less dependent on height.

In reply to jinxxxy: Try the Westway if you have a problem with the routes being height oriented, it tends to happen less there.

Mile End is quite an old-fashioned wall (though still packs a lot into a small space), they tend to be more afflicted by the "routes set by giants, for giants" syndrome.

In reply to i.munro: i suppose you're right. i'll be climbing a yellow route that i'd be huffing and puffing after because of the additional moves and dynos i'd have to make. but a guy who is 6 feet tall, will jump on the route (no offence to 6 footer novices) but a 6 foot novice just jumps on it and blitzes it without a problem. i was proven that just about a week and a half ago. it really bruises the ego. but shouldn't routes be set for the shorter climbers too? how should teeny people like me enjoy climbing at a more difficult grade when i have to constantly compensate?

in a way, it's pretty alright. i have no choice but to rely on my technique!

In reply to Simon4: i've never been to the westway before. i hear it's more rope work than bouldering. it'd be nice to go there some time.

In reply to jinxxxy:

But the grading is just a quirk of the way indoor routes are built. Best just to ignore it (easier said than done I know).

Rather than different routes perhaps you could imagine different grading systems for different heights (for indoor use only). Given enough experience you will be able to say "that 5b is actually 6a for me" so the written grade won't matter. The other thing is that anything climbed using holds that take more than fingers is a waste of time. (no useful training effect, it's just arms) so the routes that you are struggling on because of height are probably a waste of time anyway.

In reply to i.munro: true. but most of those problems are mostly fingery. i like crimps and stuff. how can i climb on crimps and fingery holds when they're all so reachy. i can't even sit start on some of those routes! imagine that! i sit down and i still have about 6-8 inches before reaching the hand hold. i think i'll just have to train in the boardroom. boring.

i reckon. out of 20 routes, maybe i can attempt 5, 3 out of them being still very reachy, and 1 being alright with a small dyno and 1 doable. how sad!

In reply to jinxxxy:

I generally climb with my wife who is about your height & in say 7 out of 10 cases I can find an alternative method for eliminating the long reach on any problem she can't do.
(I've been climbing a looooooong time, big repertoire of moves)

Sadly she often can't do my alternative but at least that's due to strength/or flexibility which can be worked on rather than height.

In reply to jinxxxy:

Yawn.....

http://www.womenclimbing.com/climb/biodetail.asp?id=1

HD.

In reply to jinxxxy: i'm not lynn hill!

In reply to jinxxxy:

And I'm not Ben Moon.

BUT!, it has been known for me to struggle on a route, then say to myself "I AM JERRY MOFFAT, I AM JERRY MOFFAT!"......

.....and actually get up the thing.

Its all in the mind.

;-P
HD.

In reply to jinxxxy:

You going to be down at Mile End from about 6ish on Thursday?

Sam

In reply to hugedyno: haha. well hello mr. jerry springer! i'll try telling myself that i am lynn hill. we'll see how it goes!

In reply to jinxxxy:

Let me guess... does swingy say 'its not a height problem, its a STRENGTH problem!' to you all the time? That's what I get... come along one night to Westway with him, and we'll find some good routes for you- Im only 163cm so I understand where you are coming from!

In reply to jinxxxy:

Mile End is reachy and very, very fingery. It's very much designed for average-to-tall climbers who want a hard shoulder and finger workout. Great for me (6' 1''), but not great for everyone.

Definitely second the suggestion that you try Westway. They have loads of featured walls so that you can use your feet more to generate reach.

You should also get yourself outside on some cramped laybacks and balancy aretes. You'd soon put the lanky ones in their place!

Mark

In reply to jinxxxy:

The Westway is predominantly roped climbing, though it does also have bouldering. Normally the concensus is that the Castle is the better wall for bouldering. I know a number of "slight, short, female climbers" who climb at the Westway, there are occasional routes where they find their height a problem (I sometimes find the same, not being a giant myself), but generally their light weight compensates for lack of reach. Typically this is the case on real rock as well, where routes are not artifically restricted, so you can use anything.

There are quite a few people here who climb at the Westway, alternatively they run introductory courses and a women's night on Monday, where you can turn up without a partner and they will try to pair you off. (I'm sure someone here can give you all the details).

In reply to jinxxxy:

come along to the castle and make use of the featured bouldering. then hieght is no excuse. i think quite a few of the setters at the castle ar shorter too.

besides one of the best climbers i know is only 4'11" if that. his footwork is flawless and if you saw him you wouldn't accuse him of being the fittest climber around. Johnny Dawes is only about 5'4" too. don't develop 'Short Climber' complex! don't make excuses just get on and figure out your own way!

In reply to catt:


Of course it is, and a very good excuse too!


Experienced climbers always have their excuses well prepared (though normally nothing else). That is one of the 2 rules of climbing.

In reply to amanonaspeedingbike:

I would ignore this westway advice. It's much better to work on this sort of technique on a boulder problem where you can see lots of climbers of different shapes & sizes try the same problem. (keep an eye on the short, good ones)

Routes indoors are only for training endurance & not IMO the best way of doing that.

I also don't understand "Mile End is reachy and very, very fingery", For a given grade as the holds get bigger then they must get further apart, so fingery is exactly what the OP wants.

In reply to Simon4:

You took that bit totally out of context! And it's still not as good an excuse as - conditions were poor/there was a caterpillar on the hold/my belayer was smoking a fag/it was a low tide(high gravity) time of day (personal fav)...

In reply to amanonaspeedingbike

Apart from Sam, I can't think of any of their route setters over five foot nine. I rarely find their routes fingery as long as I make good use of my feet

In reply to caver: ohhh.... are you sure about that? there are loads of route setters who are over 5'9"!!

In reply to broccoligirl: i shall make my way to westway sometime next week once your back is better. swingy will have no more comments about chicks who are (in his definition) 'WEAK'. sometimes, i swear it's not about being strong. it's just the bloody height issue. oh, by the way... cake was nice. thanks!

In reply to catt: i suppose i'm just going to have to get stronger. that's all. i would think i'm quite strong already, but i reckon i could be even stronger. but then again. what do i know? one thing for sure is i'm not lynn hill. if i could climb a fraction as well as her, i'd be well stoked.

any good training suggestions? anyone?

In reply to jinxxxy:


I don't know them all but of the main setters, Mike, Tiggs, Alex, Andrey, Sheridan and Stu are under five nine. Who are the tall ones?

Have you spoken to Sheridan and Alex, they're normally really helpful if you've got problems with the routes

In reply to jinxxxy:

Hey! Glad you liked the....one more convert to my imminent baking empire.

I _so_ hope my back is better by next week, I'm so GRUMPY! All Im allowed to do is walk to work and back. So unfair.


I dont take his comments to heart, he might be freakishly strong but I'll get there (and I dont climb nearly as often!). I do object to his 'well you could lose some weight, that'd make you a better climber' comments!!! Even if it is true. Hmph.

In reply to jinxxxy:

>i suppose i'm just going to have to get stronger. that's all. i would think i'm quite strong already, but i reckon i could be even stronger. but then again. what do i know? one thing for sure is i'm not lynn hill. if i could climb a fraction as well as her, i'd be well stoked.

Hi, you don't have to set routes for ME wall, but equally you don't have to limit yourself to the set routes. Just take a route that is beyond your ability, and add a few holds from other routes to bring it almost within your capability, then work the problem until you figure a solution.

This will also get your creative juices flowing too. But importantly its a progression and eventually you'll develop crazy techniques for overcoming the height difficulties.

All the best.

D

In reply to jinxxxy:

the odd route is height dependent at Mile end, especially as it's difficult to put a really good flat smear in as you would outside.

There are plenty of routes which are not height dependent, just give the ones that are a miss.

In reply to amanonaspeedingbike:

mile end is certanly not very very fingery

infact there is not enough crimpy problems

In reply to jinxxxy: my advice would be, go outside more.....can't blame the routesetters there.....(well, actually you can, but they probably wont listen)

Wish I could climb on even sandstone, breaking your back sucks.....

Good luck with your size problem.

In reply to catt:


i think you meant to say 6'1"

In reply to rlovatt:

Not much crimpy, but lots of very fingery problems on slopers....

In reply to caver: At yellow I can think of 4 that felt overly reachy at 5'10" without trying very hard and that is just on the routes I climbed on tuesday, including the peggy day traverse which is very much harder if you don't have the reach to make two key moves which are untenable bellow 5'8-9".

In reply to davidwright:

Eh, I'm rather shorter than that but then I can boast that I've got two feet. On the yellow, cock your foot around the corner and you can move around. I will grant you that R to L, the other move is quite long but you'll just have to pull a bit.

BTW, do you agree that there has been a great deal of 'grade slip' recently. Tee routes are becoming tiresomely unchallenging?

In reply to broccoligirl: definitely a convert! i like my cakes. but am limited to it now. i'm not allowed to have too much sweet food because of my teeth. all thanks to a dodgy dentist.

I'm thinking, yes maybe i'll lose SOME more weight. it could make me a better climber because i'd have less weight to support. but then again. at 8st 5lb, what else should i lose. the wind will blow me away.

well, all the best with that back. ive not climbed the whole week because of my shoulders. i should be able to tomorrow.

In reply to jinxxxy:

Loads, but it all depends on what you want to work on and what sort of level and experience you are already at. There is a lot of information on this site in older threads and articles, and lots on sites such as Ben Moons, Niel Greshams, Planet Fear, Dave MacLeod. There are also quite a few books on the subject. It's also good just to get chatting with those obviously into their training at the wall. These might be the ones hanging about the campus board with a pencil and bit of paper...

In reply to davidwright: the peggy day actually had some very reachy routes that i think are probably still on. like a warm up green on the PD, was really tough. even for seasonal climbers, they felt the moves were a little difficult for the grade. and in actual fact, the blue was actually much easier than the greens. and the yellows had a funny twinge to two parts of it. but anyways. point i'm making is, sometimes the route setters don't take other issues into consideration whilt putting a route up.

caver: you might need to get a new measuring tape out to measure people's heights. and, sheridan's the route setting manager. he tests the routes. he doesn't set it. fireman sam, nolan, stu, fred, (argh, can't remember his name... guy with dreadlocks)... they're all over 5'9".

In reply to Tobias at Home:

Really, I thought the Canadian was at least 6'4"? ...

In reply to catt:

I thought Toby was 5'8"

In reply to jinxxxy:

All I can say is: Girl! You are going to be in SOOOOOO much trouble!!!!!!

In reply to Tig Tay: what'd i do??! just asking for various opinions on improving my climbing grade.

In reply to jinxxxy: Re Sheridan is 'only the routesetting manager' I know him personally and can confirm he is 5ft 6in and checks all the routes that the setters set. If he finds a route either too easy or too hard for the grade or if they aredeemed too reachy then he asks them to change the route. Also he has been known to set routes when he has the time but he does not put his name on the start tags.

In reply to jinxxxy:

I'm friends with one of the route setters. i can ask him to do some routes friendly for vertically challenged people. i am one too!

hey all. esp to the route setters and people from mile end. this thread/post is actually just a matter of opinion. don't get all touchy from this. besides, it's just an internet forum. don't take things to heart, ei!

In reply to carnie: yes. i'm aware of that. i'm not saying the routes in mile end are shite. this forum is just a matter of opinion. geez. what's with all the touchy feely people?

In reply to jinxxxy: Ok firstly I'm not getting touchy, apologies if you felt I was. I was merely trying to state some facts that appear to have been overlooked. As for the comment re this is only an internet forum, unfortunately people are often not aware of the damage that can be caused to reputations (personal or professional) by comments nmade on forums such as this. As a charitable organisation Mile End Climbing Wall relys a lot on it's good reputation and it would be a great shame for this to be tarnished by miss representation.

In reply to jinxxxy: that should have read misrepresentation

In reply to carnie: A legitimate expression of opinion is not misrepresentation.

Jinxxxy was simply expressing her view that Mile End routes tend to the reachy. You may disagree with her, or feel that her inexperience may diminish the value of her judgement, but there's nothing she has posted that can be reasonably objected to.

that's the thing! i'm not trying to misrepresent the wall. not one bit! if anything, i enjoy climbing there! the mere intention of my posting this forum is just trying to see where i'm going wrong. bah!

yes. ME has a good reputation. i'm not saying that they don't. neither am i saying that i dislike the routes there. i really like climbing there, it's a good wall and there are very nice people there too.

i'm just saying that the routes tend to be on the reachier end of things. what can i do to overcome that?

it's quite dissatisfying not being able to even reach the sit start, let alone trying to even reach the first hold from the start, how am i going to climb it? okay. so. everyone tells me, ignore the sit start. fine. then i'll move on to the next step up and do it as a stand start. but, i still can't get to the next hold up from there because i just don't have the reach. then people tell me, okay, add another hold into that move. so, WHY should i even try the route if i'm already going to add a few more holds and ignore the sit start? it wouldn't be the route that the routesetter has set anymore.

i've even seen experienced climbers about my height struggle and give up on routes because they find it just as reachy too.

so really, i'm just expressing my opinion and asking for help.

if help isn't willing to be given, or opinions shared, why have climbing courses, or books on improving ones grade?

In reply to jinxxxy:

Haven't read the whole thread jinxxxy:, but the jist of it seems to be your struggle with being a bit shorter than a lot of folk, and routes at most walls therefore seeming much harder than they are graded. I've got a couple of points to make that I hope might be of some help to you.

Firstly, if you can find a much more old fashioned wall to train on more regularly this might help. The sort of walls I'm talking about are one like the Brunel Uni. wall in Uxbridge; this is basically made to resemble 'features' as much as possible and has no bolt-ons on it. I've found it to be of immense value in terms of developing technique, as you decide your own routes much more, especially in making better footwork choices. I actually think the whole 'foot follow' rule on routes is generally unhelpful in the long run, as it discourages using your feet in more creative and diverse ways. I don't know if Brunel would be too far for you to travel, but those of us who use it,love it; check it out if you can and see what you think. Failing that, try using routes that just use the features on your regular walls, i.e. no bolt-ons.

The other point is to keep working on your technique as you will be able to overcome a lack of height (to a very large extent) if your technique is excellent. Have a look at Neil Gresham's Masterclass DVD's about turning into moves to increase your reach; it's quite a revelation (if you don't do it already).

I don't know if you climb outside much, or if it's your intention to (it should be!), but remember that the whole indoor thing is in essence very artificial. As far as I'm concerned it's all 'training' for the crag and when your out on a route you can use whatever you can touch (or reach!)to get you to the top, so your indoor work should be helping to develop this 'choice' of hold practise.Hope I've made some sense and not just rambled.

In reply to jinxxxy:

I don't think people are 'having a go'....it's always like this on forums. As I said before, introduce yourself to Sheridan or Alex, they're very friendly and you'll find then really helpful.

In reply to Mark Sheridan:

I used to live in London, in fact I'm a londoner. Mile End is/was (3-4 years ago anyways) renound for setting routes that tend to be reachy as compared to say the castle/westway.

Perhaps this has changed now. When I climbed there the grading scheme was always one of about 5 colours which I also found a bit odd.

Stevo

In reply to Sheridan: Hey, sorry for all this rambling, etc. sorry for upsetting the whole equilibrium of the routesetting community in ME.

yes. i'm quite aware of height being not as big an issue as i think it is. My intention is to make a transition to climb outside as soon as i feel that i am good enough. this transition is really slow as i keep thinking i'm still really shite. unfortunately. i just have no confidence in my climbing because i keep having to compromise most of the time.

you've made sense. have actually watched that DVD too. cheers!

In reply to jinxxxy:

You do realise that I'm not 'Sheridan' that's been referred to in this thread, I'm just plain old Mark Sheridan, someone who is probably infinitely less talented or exciting!

In reply to jinxxxy:

Reach is generally less of an issue climbing outside: as a generalisation, for a given grade, real rock has smaller holds but there are more of them and they are not so far apart. This often puts the less tall but light and small fingered at an advantage.

You don't have to wait 'til you are good enough to climb outside. You already are. There is no minimum level of climbing competency (safe belaying as a given). Find someone to take you to Dorset or Derbyshire.

In reply to jinxxxy:

>My intention is to make a transition to climb outside as soon as i feel that i am good enough

If you stick to indoor walls, then you'll be in for a shock when you climb outside. Treat the two as distinct and do both as often as possible. I find wall routes much harder than outside as I'm used to finding extra holds that indoor 'set' routes do not afford. But then I climb outside for more extended periods of time than indoors. If you structure your climbing so that you spend most time indoors, then the outside experience will more likely be negative.

Get outside and get climbing and use the wall for some fun and/or structured training and an opportunity to climb when you can't get away.

But I definitely do not recommend "waiting until you feel you are good enough", your confidence will hit rock bottom if you get to the stage where you think you are good enough and then get blown away by something that should be relatively easy.

I get the impression you are trying to structure this all a bit too much without developing a bit of hands-on experience, you've watched the DVD yet you have not transitioned outside! That seems a bit extreme to me.

Let your skills develop alongside your experiences, its natural and more fun and allows your confidence to grow in light of the many styles, rock-types, partners and environments that you'll hopefully experience in the fullness of time.

D

In reply to jinxxxy:

Went to ME last night with my wife who's pretty short & was getting really wound up because all the problems are so reachy. When I tried a couple I got almost the opposite impression. Both problems seemed to me to have been set for a non-obvious solution (heel hook) but in order to ensure they weren't too reachy the next hold was placed close enough to allow the lanky among us (me) to skip the elegant solution and just stre....tch.

In both cases I found doing the short person's version (whixh I think is the move the setter had in mind ) was no harder & a lot better problem. Ignore what the masses are doing & think heel-hooks drop-knees & rock-overs.

In reply to jinxxxy:

I also am short 5ft 3 so not quite as short as you, but I agree with the knee drops and rock overs. Most people stand there telling me various different ways that I should be doing a route when I find I can't reach, but someone the other day who was 6ft 2, attempted to do one in the style of "stacey" and couldn't do it, its nice to know that it wasnt just me and that it really actually is down to my height!

In reply to staceyjg:

Knee drops?? new move! lol!

I mean drop knees! (been a long day!)

In reply to jinxxxy:

totally off topic, although I am only 160cm! I'm going to be in London this weekend, and want to climb on Sunday - just bouldering. I'm staying in Regents Park, which would be the nearest wall (with good bouldering?).


Cheers,
(not) lanky.

In reply to lanky_suction1: You would probably be best to walk to Baker Street or Great Portland Street stations and take the underground to Mile End (or take the 205 bus which goes straight there). Mile End wall is not exactly the nearest but is probably the best for a bouldering visitor.

In reply to lanky_suction1:

Although Westway is even closer -on the manky Hammersmith and City line (jump off at Latimer Rd)... less bouldering but you should be able to find peeps to join in with if you wanted.
x

In reply to jinxxxy:

Just wanted to agree with those who apparently disagreed with me; I'm a massive fan of Mile End, and I'm sure that there are hundreds of routes for all kinds of climbers.

I do still think that lots of their routes are set with big powerful reaches; for me that often means a stretch, but with technique/strength it might just mean inventive or powerful climbing.

I still reckon that variety will help you push your grade. Obviously the key variety is the 'outside' variety, but I share the problems that some Londoners have in getting out often enough.

Mark

In reply to lanky_suction1:

Two main bouldering walls are the Castle, Manor House tube & Mile End as above. I wouldn't bother with the Westway there's really very little by comparison.

Be warned they will both be very crowded and very sweaty.

In reply to amanonaspeedingbike:

sorry. i've not been particularly active on ukc recently. well. you know. i'd reccommend castle/mile end for bouldering. westway is more ropey. sorry westway fans. but it is true.

in response to you - i agree! i just stopped climbing on alot of routes by looking at them. it's like a, oh. i won't be able to do that powerful move. lets not bother trying. it's like a disease now. i avoid powerful routes and go for the more technical routes now. i am still a big fan of mile end; just very picky with routes now.