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Peter Absolon, 47, was killed by rock fall in the Wind River Range on August 11, apparently the victim of a rock thrown from above by a hiker.
Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/
Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: Christ.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: It is a shame that some idiots are allowed out on the hills so they can throw stones around...
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: very sad.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
I wonder if the hiker knows the consequences of his/her actions?
I wonder if the hiker knows the consequences of his/her actions?
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: How do they know the rock was thrown? And if it was, why was the hiker not detained?
In reply to Jon Dittman:
The climbing.com report says that the hiker is cooperating with the authourities.
J
The climbing.com report says that the hiker is cooperating with the authourities.
J
In reply to datoon:
This is really sad. I have to admit that i have thrown stones over cliffs, though never in popular climbing areas. I suspect it is true for everyone. This is an incredibly tragic accident.
This is really sad. I have to admit that i have thrown stones over cliffs, though never in popular climbing areas. I suspect it is true for everyone. This is an incredibly tragic accident.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: Bloody unlucky -
I've drummed it into my kids from an early age not to put anything over the edge on paths or cliff tops or throw rocks around while out climbing or walking.
The kids living on Portland should read this - spotted the little sods lobbing rocks down on climbers mid route many times.
I've drummed it into my kids from an early age not to put anything over the edge on paths or cliff tops or throw rocks around while out climbing or walking.
The kids living on Portland should read this - spotted the little sods lobbing rocks down on climbers mid route many times.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
A couple of friends had a very near miss at Peel Crag, which has the Roman Wall running along the top, a kid from a school party lobbed a big rock off and it just missed them. You should wear helmets at Crag Lough and Peel Crag even when you're walking along the bottom.
A couple of friends had a very near miss at Peel Crag, which has the Roman Wall running along the top, a kid from a school party lobbed a big rock off and it just missed them. You should wear helmets at Crag Lough and Peel Crag even when you're walking along the bottom.
In reply to orge:
Hopefully cooperating = charged with involuntary manslaughter...
> The climbing.com report says that the hiker is cooperating with the authourities.
Hopefully cooperating = charged with involuntary manslaughter...
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
I once got a load of verbal abuse from some lads I remonstrated with for throwing stones off the Seven Sisters between Beachy Head and Birling Gap. People walk along the bottom at low tide.
I once got a load of verbal abuse from some lads I remonstrated with for throwing stones off the Seven Sisters between Beachy Head and Birling Gap. People walk along the bottom at low tide.
In reply to Slugain Howff:
Yes, it has. E.g. when you're walking down a dangerously loose steep boulder field with no one on it or below it but yourself and your partner, who is behind you. If you think there's stuff in front of you that might come after you once you've passed it, e.g. because your partner inadvertently gets it moving, it's much better to kick it down before you carry on.
>
> Responsible trundling has its place.
> Responsible trundling has its place.
Yes, it has. E.g. when you're walking down a dangerously loose steep boulder field with no one on it or below it but yourself and your partner, who is behind you. If you think there's stuff in front of you that might come after you once you've passed it, e.g. because your partner inadvertently gets it moving, it's much better to kick it down before you carry on.
In reply to wilding:
Errrr? No.
> (In reply to datoon)
>
> ...I have to admit that i have thrown stones over cliffs ... I suspect it is true for everyone.
>
> ...I have to admit that i have thrown stones over cliffs ... I suspect it is true for everyone.
Errrr? No.
In reply to Slugain Howff:
Such as removing famous chockstones maybe?
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
>
> Responsible trundling has its place.
>
> Responsible trundling has its place.
Such as removing famous chockstones maybe?
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
The thrower looked over the edge, saw it hit Pete, then dialed 911.
Lander police have spoken with the person who threw the rock but have made no arrests. He is a Wyoming resident and an Iraq veteran.
The thrower looked over the edge, saw it hit Pete, then dialed 911.
Lander police have spoken with the person who threw the rock but have made no arrests. He is a Wyoming resident and an Iraq veteran.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Glad to hear about the cooperation of the walker! I'm sure he/she feels bad enough not to warrant further punishment!
Terribly sad, lets just hope people learn from it!
Glad to hear about the cooperation of the walker! I'm sure he/she feels bad enough not to warrant further punishment!
Terribly sad, lets just hope people learn from it!
n reply to all:
At the risk of sounding like an apologist for the 'trundler' (which I'm not), it's worth pointing out that Absolon and his partner were doing a new route in a fairly remote part of a fairly remote place, so it's not as if the guy had any expectation that there would be climbers below him. Whilst it may seem obvious to us that throwing rocks down a cliff face is irresponsible, as climbers we represent a pretty small minority.
Even in Yosemite (where judging by the number of non-climbing visitors spotting El Cap parties from the Meadow most people are aware of the prevalence of climbers), it's not unusual for visitors on Glacier Point to pitch down a rock or two onto Glacier Apron. I'm damn sure this isn't through malice, and while it may seem stupid to us it's really just ignorance.
As I say, my point here isn't to be an apologist, but to make the point that education may be a better approach than a self-important witch hunt. I'm sure the guy in question feels absolutely awful: given the close-knit nature of the Lander community it's highly likely that he knew Pete Absolon.
At the risk of sounding like an apologist for the 'trundler' (which I'm not), it's worth pointing out that Absolon and his partner were doing a new route in a fairly remote part of a fairly remote place, so it's not as if the guy had any expectation that there would be climbers below him. Whilst it may seem obvious to us that throwing rocks down a cliff face is irresponsible, as climbers we represent a pretty small minority.
Even in Yosemite (where judging by the number of non-climbing visitors spotting El Cap parties from the Meadow most people are aware of the prevalence of climbers), it's not unusual for visitors on Glacier Point to pitch down a rock or two onto Glacier Apron. I'm damn sure this isn't through malice, and while it may seem stupid to us it's really just ignorance.
As I say, my point here isn't to be an apologist, but to make the point that education may be a better approach than a self-important witch hunt. I'm sure the guy in question feels absolutely awful: given the close-knit nature of the Lander community it's highly likely that he knew Pete Absolon.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Meanwhile, the witchhunt has already started on Supertopo...
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=434869
I'd be slightly more partial to their cries for a murder charge if I didn't know just how high a blood-alcohol level half of these guys were prepared to routinely drive home with.
A terribly sad and tragic incident, that no amount of self-satisfied vengeance will cure.
Meanwhile, the witchhunt has already started on Supertopo...
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=434869
I'd be slightly more partial to their cries for a murder charge if I didn't know just how high a blood-alcohol level half of these guys were prepared to routinely drive home with.
A terribly sad and tragic incident, that no amount of self-satisfied vengeance will cure.
In reply to WillinLA:
Seems a mixed response, with some trying to understand the situation.
A very very sad and unfortunate accident that would be better served by widespread publicising to make sure that people know NOT to throw rocks off cliffs.
Maybe that is what the rock thrower should be involved in. Jail time won't bring Pete Absolon back or make it easier for his family. But making sure that everyone who ventures to the top of cliffs knows not to lob things off would be a better course of action I think.
Mick
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
>
> Meanwhile, the witchhunt has already started on Supertopo...
>
> http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=434869
>
> Meanwhile, the witchhunt has already started on Supertopo...
>
> http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=434869
Seems a mixed response, with some trying to understand the situation.
A very very sad and unfortunate accident that would be better served by widespread publicising to make sure that people know NOT to throw rocks off cliffs.
Maybe that is what the rock thrower should be involved in. Jail time won't bring Pete Absolon back or make it easier for his family. But making sure that everyone who ventures to the top of cliffs knows not to lob things off would be a better course of action I think.
Mick
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
I couldn't agree more Mick. Which raises the question of how this message could be disseminated. I suppose ranger stations and those message boards they have at trailheads over here would be an obvious start, but I wonder how many people stop and read them.
It's hard enough to get people to carry enough water....
> (In reply to WillinLA)
> [...]
> [...]
> Maybe that is what the rock thrower should be involved in. Jail time won't bring Pete Absolon back or make it easier for his family. But making sure that everyone who ventures to the top of cliffs knows not to lob things off would be a better course of action I think.
I couldn't agree more Mick. Which raises the question of how this message could be disseminated. I suppose ranger stations and those message boards they have at trailheads over here would be an obvious start, but I wonder how many people stop and read them.
It's hard enough to get people to carry enough water....
In reply to WillinLA:
Don't you have to pay to get into some of those places, if so then give them a sheet of paper with do's and don'ts to read when they enter.
Don't you have to pay to get into some of those places, if so then give them a sheet of paper with do's and don'ts to read when they enter.
In reply to sutty:
In Odessa and Monte Perdido National Park in the Pyrenees they had signs in several languages with illustrations saying not to throw rocks/stones at some of the viewpoints.
How effective these are I don't know.
In Odessa and Monte Perdido National Park in the Pyrenees they had signs in several languages with illustrations saying not to throw rocks/stones at some of the viewpoints.
How effective these are I don't know.
In reply to sutty:
Sutty,
You have to pay an entrance fee to get into National Parks, and some State Parks/Recreation areas. To a certain extent they do hand out basic info/rules, but bear in mind that the entrance stations are only open during 'normal' office hours, and hikers on a lot of popular, famous routes may be entering the Park long before they're open e.g. the car park for Long's Peak is normally heaving at 2am in the summer, due to the need to get off the top before the afternoon lightning strikes come in.
The Wind River Range, where the accident happened, is pretty remote and is not a national park, so there are no restrictions. I assume, although I confess that I haven't checked, that it's administered by the Bureau of land management (BLM) and largely free of rangers, restrictionc etc.
I suppose that it comes down to what might be termed 'mountain sense' or 'outdoor awareness'. One would expect that recreational users would be a bit more savvy than in honeypots like e.g. Yosemite or the Rocky Mtn NP, but apparently not. As an aside, the 'Winds' are also popular with the hunting and off-road user groups, which sadly true to their sterotype often (but not always) have a bit more of a clueless 'yahoo' element. How to educate these user groups without alienating them with 'just another lot of tree-hugging, liberal hippy shit'?
Will
Sutty,
You have to pay an entrance fee to get into National Parks, and some State Parks/Recreation areas. To a certain extent they do hand out basic info/rules, but bear in mind that the entrance stations are only open during 'normal' office hours, and hikers on a lot of popular, famous routes may be entering the Park long before they're open e.g. the car park for Long's Peak is normally heaving at 2am in the summer, due to the need to get off the top before the afternoon lightning strikes come in.
The Wind River Range, where the accident happened, is pretty remote and is not a national park, so there are no restrictions. I assume, although I confess that I haven't checked, that it's administered by the Bureau of land management (BLM) and largely free of rangers, restrictionc etc.
I suppose that it comes down to what might be termed 'mountain sense' or 'outdoor awareness'. One would expect that recreational users would be a bit more savvy than in honeypots like e.g. Yosemite or the Rocky Mtn NP, but apparently not. As an aside, the 'Winds' are also popular with the hunting and off-road user groups, which sadly true to their sterotype often (but not always) have a bit more of a clueless 'yahoo' element. How to educate these user groups without alienating them with 'just another lot of tree-hugging, liberal hippy shit'?
Will
In reply to WillinLA:
>How to educate these user groups without alienating them with 'just another lot of tree-hugging, liberal hippy shit'?
I should have thought a well-publicised murder conviction would educate the masses no end.
jcm
>How to educate these user groups without alienating them with 'just another lot of tree-hugging, liberal hippy shit'?
I should have thought a well-publicised murder conviction would educate the masses no end.
jcm
In reply to WillinLA: Well it's not really only about small rocks being hurled over. This is a huge problem in Verdon Gorge, obviously lots of tourists as well as climbers. All the rocks that have been lobbed off the top have been responsible for collecting a huge amount of rock on the way down causing loads of damage to the gorge walls. This is probably the same in lots of places.
In reply to WillinLA:
Yup, ignorance and lack of thought.
I saw a lad (with his family) chucking stones over the cliff at Durlston in Swanage. Rather than rant at him, I just asked him quietly if he could see over the edge, and knew what was down there. Of course, he couldn't. I then pointed out that a few hundred yards along the cliff was a popular climbing area.
He looked rather sheepish, and I hope he won't do it again.
> I'm damn sure this isn't through malice, and while it may seem stupid to us it's really just ignorance.
Yup, ignorance and lack of thought.
I saw a lad (with his family) chucking stones over the cliff at Durlston in Swanage. Rather than rant at him, I just asked him quietly if he could see over the edge, and knew what was down there. Of course, he couldn't. I then pointed out that a few hundred yards along the cliff was a popular climbing area.
He looked rather sheepish, and I hope he won't do it again.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Apart from the fact that murder would be a wholly inappropriate charge, as you well know, it wouldn't educate the masses because it wouldn't be well-publicised. It's hardly likely to make NBC, CNN or (horror of horrors) Fox News: apart from a few under-employed internet news-hounds posting similarly ill-conceived and judgemental comments on Matt Drudge's site, the vast majority of US 'outdoor users' (yuck) will never, ever here about this.
> (In reply to WillinLA)
> I should have thought a well-publicised murder conviction would educate the masses no end.
Apart from the fact that murder would be a wholly inappropriate charge, as you well know, it wouldn't educate the masses because it wouldn't be well-publicised. It's hardly likely to make NBC, CNN or (horror of horrors) Fox News: apart from a few under-employed internet news-hounds posting similarly ill-conceived and judgemental comments on Matt Drudge's site, the vast majority of US 'outdoor users' (yuck) will never, ever here about this.
In reply to WillinLA:
Is it not? It's the sort of thing which would make news over here. US law surely allows for the death penalty to be carried out by hurling the fellow over the cliff involved, doesn't it? That should make the local bulletins at least.
Seriously, I can't see any objection to a manslaughter conviction. Reckless yobbery + death = manslaughter, no? It doesn't take a climber to realise that if you chuck a rock 1100 foot down a cliff anyone at the bottom may have a bad time.
jcm
Is it not? It's the sort of thing which would make news over here. US law surely allows for the death penalty to be carried out by hurling the fellow over the cliff involved, doesn't it? That should make the local bulletins at least.
Seriously, I can't see any objection to a manslaughter conviction. Reckless yobbery + death = manslaughter, no? It doesn't take a climber to realise that if you chuck a rock 1100 foot down a cliff anyone at the bottom may have a bad time.
jcm
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
No it isn't John. It won't even register a blip.
> (In reply to WillinLA)
>
> Is it not?
>
> Is it not?
No it isn't John. It won't even register a blip.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
You think having rocks thrown from the top at you is bad, know some people from the club who have had fireworks fired at them half way up the rock face by local yobs. Lesson never climb around 5th november.
On a slighly more serious note its kids that are taken out by thier families on a walk who don't understand the danger or even think of it. These are the people im most frigthened off.
You think having rocks thrown from the top at you is bad, know some people from the club who have had fireworks fired at them half way up the rock face by local yobs. Lesson never climb around 5th november.
On a slighly more serious note its kids that are taken out by thier families on a walk who don't understand the danger or even think of it. These are the people im most frigthened off.
It's an ever more popular problem as more and more people are taking to the outdoors. It is a case of ignorance and just never knowing better. We've all seen people get up and walk off leaving crisp packets and bottles on the top of hills in the lakes, campers shaking gas bottles while alight in the from of the tent to get it going, and obviously people destoying hills by pushing the biggest boulder possible off the top.
I dont know if this is something we can educate people on, or just another danger we need to be looking out for when on our missions.
I dont know if this is something we can educate people on, or just another danger we need to be looking out for when on our missions.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Mick answered this point, but I'll just add that it did make the local bulletins, which in Wyoming means an audience of, I would guess, 500,000 people. That's a drop in the ocean. given that the national population is 600 million.
I think that there would be a case for negligent manslaughter. You actually advocated a murder conviction though.
>
> Is it not? It's the sort of thing which would make news over here. US law surely allows for the death penalty to be carried out by hurling the fellow over the cliff involved, doesn't it? That should make the local bulletins at least.
> Is it not? It's the sort of thing which would make news over here. US law surely allows for the death penalty to be carried out by hurling the fellow over the cliff involved, doesn't it? That should make the local bulletins at least.
Mick answered this point, but I'll just add that it did make the local bulletins, which in Wyoming means an audience of, I would guess, 500,000 people. That's a drop in the ocean. given that the national population is 600 million.
> Seriously, I can't see any objection to a manslaughter conviction.
I think that there would be a case for negligent manslaughter. You actually advocated a murder conviction though.
If a guy chucks a rock in the sea and it hits a diver on the head, is the guy that chucks the rock responsible for the divers death?
In reply to WillinLA:
And let us be realistic....it is quite natural to throw a rock off a cliff........"whooooaaaa let's see where this lands."
Lots of people have done it. Both climbers and non-climbers.
And let us be realistic....it is quite natural to throw a rock off a cliff........"whooooaaaa let's see where this lands."
Lots of people have done it. Both climbers and non-climbers.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
And before any of us climbed did anyone really think, 'hey, might a bloke hanging off that there vertical face'. I know I didnt!
> (In reply to WillinLA)
>
> And let us be realistic....it is quite natural to throw a rock off a cliff........"whooooaaaa let's see where this lands."
>
> Lots of people have done it. Both climbers and non-climbers.
>
> And let us be realistic....it is quite natural to throw a rock off a cliff........"whooooaaaa let's see where this lands."
>
> Lots of people have done it. Both climbers and non-climbers.
And before any of us climbed did anyone really think, 'hey, might a bloke hanging off that there vertical face'. I know I didnt!
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Lots of people have drunk and driven. Both climbers and non-climbers.
In reply to WillinLA:
The death itself won't make news, but do you not think a court case with the perpetrator being convicted would?
jcm
Lots of people have drunk and driven. Both climbers and non-climbers.
In reply to WillinLA:
The death itself won't make news, but do you not think a court case with the perpetrator being convicted would?
jcm
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Sporting of me not to google before that last post.
http://www.census.gov/main/www/popclock.html
Evidently I was some 20 years out of date, which doesn't surprise me.
Spooky site, kinda gravewalking. The figure clocks one up every few seconds, but never seems to go down. Wonder how that works. If you look long enough, do you sort of see someone die? Or at least, more realistically, watch their death being registered?
jcm
Sporting of me not to google before that last post.
http://www.census.gov/main/www/popclock.html
Evidently I was some 20 years out of date, which doesn't surprise me.
Spooky site, kinda gravewalking. The figure clocks one up every few seconds, but never seems to go down. Wonder how that works. If you look long enough, do you sort of see someone die? Or at least, more realistically, watch their death being registered?
jcm
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Nope. There are a 1000's of news sources in the US, unlike in the UK where you have 10 or so.
Education is the best policy John........at outdoor stores and at the trailheads, and when you have to get a permit to access certain parts of the backcountry.
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
> The death itself won't make news, but do you not think a court case with the perpetrator being convicted would?
Nope. There are a 1000's of news sources in the US, unlike in the UK where you have 10 or so.
Education is the best policy John........at outdoor stores and at the trailheads, and when you have to get a permit to access certain parts of the backcountry.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Well yeah, sure, but it couldn't do any harm, could it?
Amazing that they don't have a notice in the belvederes on the top of the Verdon. I remember thinking that when I was there. Although mind you if that karabiner I dropped had hit someone I wouldn't be being quite so militant about it.
Wandering slightly from the present topic, by the way, how come your organ hasn't yet sent me large quantities of free gear to review?!
jcm
Well yeah, sure, but it couldn't do any harm, could it?
Amazing that they don't have a notice in the belvederes on the top of the Verdon. I remember thinking that when I was there. Although mind you if that karabiner I dropped had hit someone I wouldn't be being quite so militant about it.
Wandering slightly from the present topic, by the way, how come your organ hasn't yet sent me large quantities of free gear to review?!
jcm
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Wow, I really was embarrassingly wrong there. Too many sixes perhaps - (UK 60 million, world 6bn...). That's no excuse though.
Back to the point of whether or not a court case would become a significant news story, I doubt it. It might go mentioned by some of the major networks, and then sink without trace in the sea of 24-hour news culture. The problem is that none of the protagonists were famous (e.g. the latest Hollywood drink-driving charge), and there are no nice juicy images to feed, e.g. spectacular shots of collapse bridges in Minnesota. There's currently a running story concerning a collapse mine in Utah, which has all the elements of high-drama: trapped miners, technology, brave rescuers getting killed trying to save the day. Whilst it has been reported regularly, I'm pretty sure it would get full-time billing if the action wasn't underground where the camera crew can't go.
On the other hand a routine ecstacy bust a few blocks from where I stay made pretty big news on the state networks, just because the news helicopter happened to be buzzing around and got live footage of swat teams and handcuffed felons.
The rank of a stories 'news-worthiness' here is based on how long it keeps the slack-jawed masses tuned in, and experience suggests that only celebrity culture or hyped-up footage will do that.
Wow, I really was embarrassingly wrong there. Too many sixes perhaps - (UK 60 million, world 6bn...). That's no excuse though.
Back to the point of whether or not a court case would become a significant news story, I doubt it. It might go mentioned by some of the major networks, and then sink without trace in the sea of 24-hour news culture. The problem is that none of the protagonists were famous (e.g. the latest Hollywood drink-driving charge), and there are no nice juicy images to feed, e.g. spectacular shots of collapse bridges in Minnesota. There's currently a running story concerning a collapse mine in Utah, which has all the elements of high-drama: trapped miners, technology, brave rescuers getting killed trying to save the day. Whilst it has been reported regularly, I'm pretty sure it would get full-time billing if the action wasn't underground where the camera crew can't go.
On the other hand a routine ecstacy bust a few blocks from where I stay made pretty big news on the state networks, just because the news helicopter happened to be buzzing around and got live footage of swat teams and handcuffed felons.
The rank of a stories 'news-worthiness' here is based on how long it keeps the slack-jawed masses tuned in, and experience suggests that only celebrity culture or hyped-up footage will do that.
In reply to JDal:
WE were at Peel a couple of weeks ago and noticed a few stones obviously from The (Roman) Wall lying precariously close to the top of the crag at the Sunset end and surmised something had been going on - accident waiting to happen as the volume of traffic on Hadrian's Wall increases.
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
> A couple of friends had a very near miss at Peel Crag, which has the Roman Wall running along the top, a kid from a school party lobbed a big rock off and it just missed them. You should wear helmets at Crag Lough and Peel Crag even when you're walking along the bottom.
> A couple of friends had a very near miss at Peel Crag, which has the Roman Wall running along the top, a kid from a school party lobbed a big rock off and it just missed them. You should wear helmets at Crag Lough and Peel Crag even when you're walking along the bottom.
WE were at Peel a couple of weeks ago and noticed a few stones obviously from The (Roman) Wall lying precariously close to the top of the crag at the Sunset end and surmised something had been going on - accident waiting to happen as the volume of traffic on Hadrian's Wall increases.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Every time I have been to the Verdon there have been notices at the Belvederes saying (something like)
"N jettez pas les pierres"
Which we always thought was hilarious because we used to call all frenchmen 'Pierres'.
Of course it means don't throw stones, have these disappeared or has John just not noticed them?
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
> Amazing that they don't have a notice in the belvederes on the top of the Verdon. I remember thinking that when I was there. >
> jcm
> Amazing that they don't have a notice in the belvederes on the top of the Verdon. I remember thinking that when I was there. >
> jcm
Every time I have been to the Verdon there have been notices at the Belvederes saying (something like)
"N jettez pas les pierres"
Which we always thought was hilarious because we used to call all frenchmen 'Pierres'.
Of course it means don't throw stones, have these disappeared or has John just not noticed them?
In reply to Al Evans:
On the subject of trundling rocks - some nobbers have been all over it at Millstone over the last few days. Fair few scars on routes we were climbing - grit/dust all over the edges and massive scars at the top crag where the capping stones have been pushed off. Eg. Knightsbridge, Great West Rd and Twikker.
A shame really.
On the subject of trundling rocks - some nobbers have been all over it at Millstone over the last few days. Fair few scars on routes we were climbing - grit/dust all over the edges and massive scars at the top crag where the capping stones have been pushed off. Eg. Knightsbridge, Great West Rd and Twikker.
A shame really.
In reply to Al Evans: The taxi drivers are having more of an effect on rock hurling tourists up there at the moment. I've seen a couple of them get out the car and get quite agressive with the tourists for lobbing rocks, then rant and rave about thier being nothing left of the gorge if they dont stop it.
They do get quite excited about it.
They do get quite excited about it.
In reply to Tom Randall - Lattice Training:
I've often thought that we (as climbers) should organise a huge clean up of the top of Millstone, removing all the loose rock/stones, because for many years there's been far too much detritus still lying around, and this kind of thing has been a disaster waiting to happen. Anyone else feel the same way?
I've often thought that we (as climbers) should organise a huge clean up of the top of Millstone, removing all the loose rock/stones, because for many years there's been far too much detritus still lying around, and this kind of thing has been a disaster waiting to happen. Anyone else feel the same way?
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Worthwhile article, mostly from the perspective of the guy who threw the rock, at http://tinyurl.com/34zjv3
Worthwhile article, mostly from the perspective of the guy who threw the rock, at http://tinyurl.com/34zjv3
In reply to Coel Hellier:
'It's my fault': Rock thrower voices remorse for climber's death
By JOSHUA WOLFSON
Star-Tribune staff writer Wednesday, August 29, 2007
Luke Rodolph stood on the rim of Upper Silas Canyon, enjoying the magnificent view that stretches all the way to Lander.
About 300 feet below him, Peter Absolon was climbing a new route up the cliff face of Leg Lake Cirque.
The two would never meet, but in a matter of moments, they would be forever linked. One would be dead, the other torn by regret.
It was late afternoon, and Rodolph and three others had been on the rim of the canyon for about an hour. They hadn't see anyone else around.
Now looking over the edge, Rodolph didn't see anyone below him, either.
"I picked up a rock and threw it off," he said. "Looked over just a little further to watch it fall, see where it was going to hit, you know, kinda leaned out further than what I was comfortable with normally, and watched it hit Pete Absolon."
There was no time for a warning. Rodolph said he didn't see Absolon until the rock struck the 47-year-old Lander resident and renowned climber in the head, killing him instantly.
About 800 feet above the Leg Lake Basin, Molly Absolon lost a husband. Her daughter, Avery, lost a father, and the National Outdoor Leadership School lost its Rocky Mountain director.
Rodolph, a 23-year-old Iraq war veteran from Casper, won't face criminal charges for the incident. But he's wracked with guilt and remorse over Absolon's death.
"I never wanted to cause a loss like that, so big for Molly and Avery," Rodolph said Tuesday, in his first public comments since the incident. "It's unbearable for them to have to go through this. It's my fault.
"I hope someday she'll know that's how I feel," he said with tears in his eyes. "I'd do anything to change it."
On Aug. 9, Rodolph and about eight friends and family members went camping in Upper Silas Canyon, in the Wind River Mountains near Lander. They spent the next two days fishing and hiking in the area.
Late in the afternoon of Aug. 11, Rodolph, his brother Aaron, their cousin and a friend hiked to the rim of Upper Silas Canyon. They spent an hour walking the rim, enjoying the view. About a quarter mile away from where Absolon was hit, the group pushed four or five rocks off the edge.
"We had sat up there and looked off, and there wasn't a soul anywhere," Aaron Rodolph said.
They hiked a little farther, and Luke Rodolph looked over the edge again. Believing there was no one below, he picked up a 15- to 20-pound rock and threw it over the edge.
"As I traced it down, I happened to lean out further and further. Right when I saw Pete, it hit him," he said.
The group called 911 on a cell phone and explained what happened, then ran four miles to the Leg Lake Basin to see what could be done to help Steve Hirlihy, a NOLS instructor who was climbing with Absolon at the time he was killed.
When they found him, Hirlihy asked what had happened and whether the group had seen the rock that hit Absolon.
"Luke looked him dead in the eye and said, 'I threw it,' " Aaron Rodolph said. "And I'll never forget, as long as I live, that Steve looked Luke dead back in the eyes and said, 'I forgive you for that.' "
Luke Rodolph stayed with Hirlihy in the basin overnight while the rest of the group went back to their campsite.
"Steve and I just talked for a while, sat around the campfire," Rodolph said. "I told him I'd go into town with him and talk with the sheriff and give him a statement, and whatever happens, happens."
Hirlihy did not respond to a message left for him Tuesday at the National Outdoor Leadership School.
The morning after Absolon's death, Rodolph and Hirlihy hiked out of the area and went to Lander. Later that day, Rodolph spoke with Fremont County Attorney Ed Newell and an investigator before returning to Casper.
That same day, Absolon's body was recovered.
Eleven days later, Newell announced that Rodolph would not be charged in connection with Absolon's death. Newell cited several factors in his decision, including the fact that Rodolph immediately took responsibility for his actions, was extremely remorseful, didn't intend to cause harm, had no criminal history and served in Iraq.
Rodolph, a Casper native, served two tours in Iraq as an infantry soldier with the 82nd Airborne Division.
In an e-mail to the Star-Tribune, Absolon's widow, Molly, said she didn't have a comment on Newell's decision not to charge Rodolph. But in a message board posting on the climbing Web site Supertopo.com, she indicated that the young man's remorsefulness and military service don't absolve him from throwing the rock.
"I appreciate that he did the right thing, but I think he should be held accountable for his actions nonetheless," she wrote.
Rodolph said he was willing to accept whatever decision Newell made.
"Whatever is done to me is fine," he said. "I don't want Molly and Avery to feel any more pain."
Gary Wilmot is an instructor at the National Outdoor Leadership School and knew Absolon since 1990. While he feels compassion for Rodolph, he also said throwing a rock from a cliff is irresponsible.
"We recognize that he is hurting, but we are also working on filling a big void in our community and a family here in Lander," Wilmot said.
Two weeks after the incident, the climbing community is still coming to grips with Absolon's death.
"We lost a very close friend, somebody who is a community builder among climbers and everyone in the Lander community," Wilmot said. "We are all still grappling with losing Pete, and at the same time, being there to support Molly."
In the wake of her husband's death, Molly Absolon and her daughter went to her sister's home in Finland. She did not respond to an e-mail seeking comment following the release of Rodolph's name. She did describe her emotions on the Supertopo.com message board.
"I have these moments where I feel like I've been punched in the stomach and I cannot breath when I realize Pete is gone forever," she wrote.
Back in Wyoming, Rodolph is struggling to deal with Absolon's death and his responsibility for it. He wanted to go to Absolon's funeral and tell Molly how sorry he was, but was told through an intermediary not to attend.
Rodolph said he has spent a lot of time praying and reading the Bible. He accepts responsibility for what happened and won't try to justify his actions.
"There's no way to repay Pete's family or Molly or Avery for their loss," he said.
That sense of helplessness is especially painful for both of the Rodolph brothers.
"You just wish there was something you could do to help them," said Aaron Rodolph, his eyes red and his voice cracking. "And you know in your heart there is nothing you can do."
'It's my fault': Rock thrower voices remorse for climber's death
By JOSHUA WOLFSON
Star-Tribune staff writer Wednesday, August 29, 2007
Luke Rodolph stood on the rim of Upper Silas Canyon, enjoying the magnificent view that stretches all the way to Lander.
About 300 feet below him, Peter Absolon was climbing a new route up the cliff face of Leg Lake Cirque.
The two would never meet, but in a matter of moments, they would be forever linked. One would be dead, the other torn by regret.
It was late afternoon, and Rodolph and three others had been on the rim of the canyon for about an hour. They hadn't see anyone else around.
Now looking over the edge, Rodolph didn't see anyone below him, either.
"I picked up a rock and threw it off," he said. "Looked over just a little further to watch it fall, see where it was going to hit, you know, kinda leaned out further than what I was comfortable with normally, and watched it hit Pete Absolon."
There was no time for a warning. Rodolph said he didn't see Absolon until the rock struck the 47-year-old Lander resident and renowned climber in the head, killing him instantly.
About 800 feet above the Leg Lake Basin, Molly Absolon lost a husband. Her daughter, Avery, lost a father, and the National Outdoor Leadership School lost its Rocky Mountain director.
Rodolph, a 23-year-old Iraq war veteran from Casper, won't face criminal charges for the incident. But he's wracked with guilt and remorse over Absolon's death.
"I never wanted to cause a loss like that, so big for Molly and Avery," Rodolph said Tuesday, in his first public comments since the incident. "It's unbearable for them to have to go through this. It's my fault.
"I hope someday she'll know that's how I feel," he said with tears in his eyes. "I'd do anything to change it."
On Aug. 9, Rodolph and about eight friends and family members went camping in Upper Silas Canyon, in the Wind River Mountains near Lander. They spent the next two days fishing and hiking in the area.
Late in the afternoon of Aug. 11, Rodolph, his brother Aaron, their cousin and a friend hiked to the rim of Upper Silas Canyon. They spent an hour walking the rim, enjoying the view. About a quarter mile away from where Absolon was hit, the group pushed four or five rocks off the edge.
"We had sat up there and looked off, and there wasn't a soul anywhere," Aaron Rodolph said.
They hiked a little farther, and Luke Rodolph looked over the edge again. Believing there was no one below, he picked up a 15- to 20-pound rock and threw it over the edge.
"As I traced it down, I happened to lean out further and further. Right when I saw Pete, it hit him," he said.
The group called 911 on a cell phone and explained what happened, then ran four miles to the Leg Lake Basin to see what could be done to help Steve Hirlihy, a NOLS instructor who was climbing with Absolon at the time he was killed.
When they found him, Hirlihy asked what had happened and whether the group had seen the rock that hit Absolon.
"Luke looked him dead in the eye and said, 'I threw it,' " Aaron Rodolph said. "And I'll never forget, as long as I live, that Steve looked Luke dead back in the eyes and said, 'I forgive you for that.' "
Luke Rodolph stayed with Hirlihy in the basin overnight while the rest of the group went back to their campsite.
"Steve and I just talked for a while, sat around the campfire," Rodolph said. "I told him I'd go into town with him and talk with the sheriff and give him a statement, and whatever happens, happens."
Hirlihy did not respond to a message left for him Tuesday at the National Outdoor Leadership School.
The morning after Absolon's death, Rodolph and Hirlihy hiked out of the area and went to Lander. Later that day, Rodolph spoke with Fremont County Attorney Ed Newell and an investigator before returning to Casper.
That same day, Absolon's body was recovered.
Eleven days later, Newell announced that Rodolph would not be charged in connection with Absolon's death. Newell cited several factors in his decision, including the fact that Rodolph immediately took responsibility for his actions, was extremely remorseful, didn't intend to cause harm, had no criminal history and served in Iraq.
Rodolph, a Casper native, served two tours in Iraq as an infantry soldier with the 82nd Airborne Division.
In an e-mail to the Star-Tribune, Absolon's widow, Molly, said she didn't have a comment on Newell's decision not to charge Rodolph. But in a message board posting on the climbing Web site Supertopo.com, she indicated that the young man's remorsefulness and military service don't absolve him from throwing the rock.
"I appreciate that he did the right thing, but I think he should be held accountable for his actions nonetheless," she wrote.
Rodolph said he was willing to accept whatever decision Newell made.
"Whatever is done to me is fine," he said. "I don't want Molly and Avery to feel any more pain."
Gary Wilmot is an instructor at the National Outdoor Leadership School and knew Absolon since 1990. While he feels compassion for Rodolph, he also said throwing a rock from a cliff is irresponsible.
"We recognize that he is hurting, but we are also working on filling a big void in our community and a family here in Lander," Wilmot said.
Two weeks after the incident, the climbing community is still coming to grips with Absolon's death.
"We lost a very close friend, somebody who is a community builder among climbers and everyone in the Lander community," Wilmot said. "We are all still grappling with losing Pete, and at the same time, being there to support Molly."
In the wake of her husband's death, Molly Absolon and her daughter went to her sister's home in Finland. She did not respond to an e-mail seeking comment following the release of Rodolph's name. She did describe her emotions on the Supertopo.com message board.
"I have these moments where I feel like I've been punched in the stomach and I cannot breath when I realize Pete is gone forever," she wrote.
Back in Wyoming, Rodolph is struggling to deal with Absolon's death and his responsibility for it. He wanted to go to Absolon's funeral and tell Molly how sorry he was, but was told through an intermediary not to attend.
Rodolph said he has spent a lot of time praying and reading the Bible. He accepts responsibility for what happened and won't try to justify his actions.
"There's no way to repay Pete's family or Molly or Avery for their loss," he said.
That sense of helplessness is especially painful for both of the Rodolph brothers.
"You just wish there was something you could do to help them," said Aaron Rodolph, his eyes red and his voice cracking. "And you know in your heart there is nothing you can do."
In reply to Coel Hellier: 'kin 'ell
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