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8 hours of live, outside-broadcast climbing.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6944130.stm
BB2 Scotland at 1:00pm Saturday
(Sky channel 990)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6944130.stm
BB2 Scotland at 1:00pm Saturday
(Sky channel 990)
In reply to Neil Conway:
Surely given the forecast (heavy rain and brisk northerly wind) they will have to pull the plug on this?
Surely given the forecast (heavy rain and brisk northerly wind) they will have to pull the plug on this?
In reply to sutty: Ya thought this would happen, good decision I reckon Sundays looking good.
In reply to Neil Conway:
There's still due to be a half hour programme on BBC2 Scotland at 1:00
There's still due to be a half hour programme on BBC2 Scotland at 1:00
In reply to Neil Conway and others: I'm afraid I've got to say it...
We climbed The Needle in far worse weather two weeks ago. Looks like the BBC just picked a bunch of fair weather climbers
We climbed The Needle in far worse weather two weeks ago. Looks like the BBC just picked a bunch of fair weather climbers
Obviously the other conclusion you could draw is that we were completely mad!
Anyway, good luck for tomorrow.
Anyway, good luck for tomorrow.
In reply to Mark Stevenson:
Weather may have been worse when you did it Mark but they do need to be able to see them with the cameras through the mist.
When they did the cloggy programme years ago it was cold and dryish but sometimes the mist rolled in making them use the on cliff cameras only at times, or go to the other sports till the mist lifted and piece clips of stuff together on the fly, not easy.
Weather may have been worse when you did it Mark but they do need to be able to see them with the cameras through the mist.
When they did the cloggy programme years ago it was cold and dryish but sometimes the mist rolled in making them use the on cliff cameras only at times, or go to the other sports till the mist lifted and piece clips of stuff together on the fly, not easy.
In reply to sutty: I wondered where it had disappeared to. Oh well at least they can try again Sunday. Is the weather due to be any better?
In reply to Richard Bradley:
There was a short programme. They did some interviews from Shelter Stone. I don't think Graeme Ettle thought much of being called one of the top climbers in the world. They also showed some film of Dave Mac at Steall.
There was a short programme. They did some interviews from Shelter Stone. I don't think Graeme Ettle thought much of being called one of the top climbers in the world. They also showed some film of Dave Mac at Steall.
In reply to Colin Moody:
I don't think Graeme Ettle thought much of being called one of the top climbers in the world.
I saw that bit and the wince he gave showed what he thought about that statement.
I don't think Graeme Ettle thought much of being called one of the top climbers in the world.
I saw that bit and the wince he gave showed what he thought about that statement.
In reply to Colin Moody: What was he climbing at Steall?
In reply to icnoble:
He was on a bolted route, I don't think they named the climb.
He was on a bolted route, I don't think they named the climb.
In reply to Donald M:
I've no idea, one of these.
Stolen 8b ***
Arcadia 8a ***
Ring of Steall 8c+ ***
Leopold F8a+ ****
Steall Appeal F8b/+
I've no idea, one of these.
Stolen 8b ***
Arcadia 8a ***
Ring of Steall 8c+ ***
Leopold F8a+ ****
Steall Appeal F8b/+
In reply to Richard Bradley:
Looking better from the met charts. But don't think Dave MacLeod will be doing his big route since it ain't going to have dried out.
Looking better from the met charts. But don't think Dave MacLeod will be doing his big route since it ain't going to have dried out.
In reply to Neil Kazimierz Sheridan:
I don't understand the rationale of broadcasting a 'live' event such as this. Surely it would have been safer to pre-record it? Did they not consider the weather, illness, injury or -God forbid- an accident during filming? Climbing in the Scottish hills, as we all know, is a gamble with odds against perfect weather. As illustrated perfectly by the cancellations.
Anyway, I'm sure someone will enlighten me!
I don't understand the rationale of broadcasting a 'live' event such as this. Surely it would have been safer to pre-record it? Did they not consider the weather, illness, injury or -God forbid- an accident during filming? Climbing in the Scottish hills, as we all know, is a gamble with odds against perfect weather. As illustrated perfectly by the cancellations.
Anyway, I'm sure someone will enlighten me!
In reply to FedUp:
For some strange reason the 'Live' billing still holds kudos with the viewing public, or does it?
For some strange reason the 'Live' billing still holds kudos with the viewing public, or does it?
In reply to VisionSet:
I suppose so. But aren't all so called 'live' events delayed by about 15 mins anyway in case of accident? So the producer can spare the British public any alarm or distress by pulling the plug before it's broadcast!
I suppose so. But aren't all so called 'live' events delayed by about 15 mins anyway in case of accident? So the producer can spare the British public any alarm or distress by pulling the plug before it's broadcast!
In reply to Neil Conway: So, is it 'on' today?
In reply to Richard Bradley:
Postponed till 3pm.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/greatclimb/climb_news1.shtml#newsitem1
Postponed till 3pm.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/greatclimb/climb_news1.shtml#newsitem1
In reply to Neil Conway: Sky planner is not showing it anymore, anyone any mor info?
In reply to Alan Taylor:
Just announceed on BBC - it's been completely abandoned.
Just announceed on BBC - it's been completely abandoned.
In reply to Fiddler: Bugger
In reply to Alan Taylor:
Exactly. What am I going to do for the rest of the day now?
Exactly. What am I going to do for the rest of the day now?
In reply to Fiddler:
>"What am I going to do for the rest of the day now?"
Well I'm going to attempt to red point two F6b+ climbs at the local wall. I'm calling my attempt the 'Great Ultimate Climbing Challenge'...
>"What am I going to do for the rest of the day now?"
Well I'm going to attempt to red point two F6b+ climbs at the local wall. I'm calling my attempt the 'Great Ultimate Climbing Challenge'...
In reply to FedUp:
I'm pretty sure that is the case, but I suppose the public are aware these days that mass editing goes on, and that any such duping tactics would be hard in 15 minutes. So what you see is basically what happened. Bradbury may well not have completed the correct line of CR, but if climber X with a reputation wusses out on something cos it's a bit greasy... well they're not going to are they 'live'? Basically I suppose the public is reassured that it is pretty realistic, and not 'set up'.
>
> I suppose so. But aren't all so called 'live' events delayed by about 15 mins anyway in case of accident? So the producer can spare the British public any alarm or distress by pulling the plug before it's broadcast!
> I suppose so. But aren't all so called 'live' events delayed by about 15 mins anyway in case of accident? So the producer can spare the British public any alarm or distress by pulling the plug before it's broadcast!
I'm pretty sure that is the case, but I suppose the public are aware these days that mass editing goes on, and that any such duping tactics would be hard in 15 minutes. So what you see is basically what happened. Bradbury may well not have completed the correct line of CR, but if climber X with a reputation wusses out on something cos it's a bit greasy... well they're not going to are they 'live'? Basically I suppose the public is reassured that it is pretty realistic, and not 'set up'.
In reply to VisionSet: I've got a BBC outside broadcast crew camped outside my house, begging me to rescue their schedule by putting on a live climbing masterclass from Lumbutts
In reply to Fiddler: that's a real shame eh? even though i wasn't going to be in a position to watch it - the people involved must be gutted
In reply to Marc C:
I find it hard to imagine the BBC would go live with you climbing in your trademark underpants before the watershed...
I find it hard to imagine the BBC would go live with you climbing in your trademark underpants before the watershed...
In reply to rich:
I guess it's official now. The website says so. Though they've still got the countdown running at the mo.
Really bad luck, but I suppose that's always the risk of trying something like this in the Highlands.
Here's hoping they'll give it another go sometime in the future.
I guess it's official now. The website says so. Though they've still got the countdown running at the mo.
Really bad luck, but I suppose that's always the risk of trying something like this in the Highlands.
Here's hoping they'll give it another go sometime in the future.
In reply to Neil Conway:
Someone told me they had loads of pre-recorded material they were going to show if the weather was bad. Wonder if this is true and, if so, if it'll still happen?
Biggest fear is that the Beeb will now pull funding for any such shows in the future. This must have cost them a small fortune to put on. Considering it was aimed at a relatively small percentage of the population in the first place (even taking into account curious couch potato punters) I don't see them throwing such money around again soon for 30 mins of wet chat from Dougie Vipond. Considering the BBC already give less funding per head of capita to BBC Scotland than any other part of Britain, I don't see them splashing out again.
Dougie could at least have got his drums out and entertained us for a few hours or given us some chat about his (and mine) beloved Saints finally getting a win yesterday.
Someone told me they had loads of pre-recorded material they were going to show if the weather was bad. Wonder if this is true and, if so, if it'll still happen?
Biggest fear is that the Beeb will now pull funding for any such shows in the future. This must have cost them a small fortune to put on. Considering it was aimed at a relatively small percentage of the population in the first place (even taking into account curious couch potato punters) I don't see them throwing such money around again soon for 30 mins of wet chat from Dougie Vipond. Considering the BBC already give less funding per head of capita to BBC Scotland than any other part of Britain, I don't see them splashing out again.
Dougie could at least have got his drums out and entertained us for a few hours or given us some chat about his (and mine) beloved Saints finally getting a win yesterday.
In reply to duntelchaig midge:
They'll be insured. Which won't recoup all costs but some I'm sure.
Are you sure that the BBC funded it? Perhaps it was Triple Echo or some investors.
Mick
They'll be insured. Which won't recoup all costs but some I'm sure.
Are you sure that the BBC funded it? Perhaps it was Triple Echo or some investors.
Mick
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
I think it would be good to know how much (if any) money has been lost. I assume all the guides involved still get paid and there was about 60 crew.
With this debacle and the negative reaction to 'mountain' I reckon the Beeb has to re-think its strategy with outdoors type programming. Nick Crane's latest programme has been well received - admittedly on the basis of one show only - but it does seem to hint that informative, engaging programmes work better than a 'spectacle'.
D
I think it would be good to know how much (if any) money has been lost. I assume all the guides involved still get paid and there was about 60 crew.
With this debacle and the negative reaction to 'mountain' I reckon the Beeb has to re-think its strategy with outdoors type programming. Nick Crane's latest programme has been well received - admittedly on the basis of one show only - but it does seem to hint that informative, engaging programmes work better than a 'spectacle'.
D
In reply to Dribbler:
If it was a no go I presume that in their contract they would get a reduced rate....kill fee.
Woooaahhh dude. I think Mountain is a great program. It depends what you expect. It isn't solely about climbing. I bet 100,000's are enjoying 'Mountain.' I know I am. And some won't like it.
Full credit to Richard Else and everyone for 'having a go,' for 'taking the risk.'
If you try, sometimes you succeed, sometimes you don't. Above all, try.
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
>
> I assume all the guides involved still get paid and there was about 60 crew.
>
> I assume all the guides involved still get paid and there was about 60 crew.
If it was a no go I presume that in their contract they would get a reduced rate....kill fee.
> With this debacle and the negative reaction to 'mountain'
Woooaahhh dude. I think Mountain is a great program. It depends what you expect. It isn't solely about climbing. I bet 100,000's are enjoying 'Mountain.' I know I am. And some won't like it.
> I reckon the Beeb has to re-think its strategy with outdoors type programming. Nick Crane's latest programme has been well received - admittedly on the basis of one show only - but it does seem to hint that informative, engaging programmes work better than a 'spectacle'.
Full credit to Richard Else and everyone for 'having a go,' for 'taking the risk.'
If you try, sometimes you succeed, sometimes you don't. Above all, try.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Yeah but was Yoda funded by the licence payer?
Given Cairngorm weather this project was a BIG risk. Someone's bound to get their knuckles rapped if lots of money has been lost with no output.
D
Yeah but was Yoda funded by the licence payer?
Given Cairngorm weather this project was a BIG risk. Someone's bound to get their knuckles rapped if lots of money has been lost with no output.
D
In reply to Removed User:
Reading the comments on this forum 'Mountain' doesn't seem to have set the heather on fire.
Its not bad TV just not great.
Can you imagine big demand for a second series?
D
Reading the comments on this forum 'Mountain' doesn't seem to have set the heather on fire.
Its not bad TV just not great.
Can you imagine big demand for a second series?
D
In reply to Dribbler:
But more to the point, was Great Climb?
I know the invasion and occupation of Iraq was and is.
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
>
> Yeah but was Yoda funded by the licence payer?
>
> Yeah but was Yoda funded by the licence payer?
But more to the point, was Great Climb?
I know the invasion and occupation of Iraq was and is.
In reply to Dribbler:
Or should Mountain Rescue be funded by the tax payer or by those who venture out into the hills, mountains and cliffs?
http://www.mountain.rescue.org.uk/giving/hard_rock.php
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
>
> Yeah but was Yoda funded by the licence payer?
>
> Yeah but was Yoda funded by the licence payer?
Or should Mountain Rescue be funded by the tax payer or by those who venture out into the hills, mountains and cliffs?
http://www.mountain.rescue.org.uk/giving/hard_rock.php
In reply to Dribbler:
Hard to imagine the BBC made the programme for the benefit of a minority of population who a) climb and b) come on here. Those two populations are hardly representative of the wider population who watch TV; nearly all the none climber I know who have commented on it have enjoyed it.
As a payer of the license fee I would rather the BBC took a risk on something like The Great Climb than provide us with more "reality" TV and "make me famous competitions" dross.
Hard to imagine the BBC made the programme for the benefit of a minority of population who a) climb and b) come on here. Those two populations are hardly representative of the wider population who watch TV; nearly all the none climber I know who have commented on it have enjoyed it.
As a payer of the license fee I would rather the BBC took a risk on something like The Great Climb than provide us with more "reality" TV and "make me famous competitions" dross.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Mick - licence fee is optional. If you don't have a TV you don't pay.
Taxes fund the war in Iraq and they are not optional.
Sorry but I can't see the link??
D
Mick - licence fee is optional. If you don't have a TV you don't pay.
Taxes fund the war in Iraq and they are not optional.
Sorry but I can't see the link??
D
In reply to Dribbler:
I don't have a TV.
But you are presuming that the BBC footed the bill, that may not be the case.
Perhaps we will find out soon!
I don't have a TV.
But you are presuming that the BBC footed the bill, that may not be the case.
Perhaps we will find out soon!
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: ... and don't forget Scottish MR ! (this is just England and Wales)
In reply to ian dawson:
Hard Rock is fundraising for the Mountain Rescue Council (England & Wales) and the Mountain Rescue Committee of Scotland, Charity Nos. 222596 & SC015257.
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com) ... and don't forget Scottish MR ! (this is just England and Wales)
Hard Rock is fundraising for the Mountain Rescue Council (England & Wales) and the Mountain Rescue Committee of Scotland, Charity Nos. 222596 & SC015257.
In reply to Neil Conway: It's good to see that God hates publicity seekers.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: I also think Mountain has been a good series so far. Some of the coments on the UKC forums have been very unfair. Can you imagine the criticism the BBC would have got if the series only appealed to the hardened rock climber.
In reply to jazzyjackson: Their website talks of videos going up later of some footage they have taken but nothing of another attempt...wait out i guess.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: In my Lakeland fell walking days I used to lead groups of adults on fell walks for one of the local fell-walking clubs. I stopped doing this because a lot of the people in the club were reluctant to take advice in matters of safety. Also at least 50% hadn't a clue how to use a map and compass and couldnt be bothered to learn. Even more worrying these same people would go walking without the benefit of people who could safely take them into the hills. Why should these people get free mountain rescue facilities? I have to take out rescue insurance when I climb in Northern Italy, and I am onle sport climbing.
In reply to Dribbler:
Odd it what way? The point (i think) they were trying to make was it was going to be a "live" broadcast? The first in 40 years?
Odd it what way? The point (i think) they were trying to make was it was going to be a "live" broadcast? The first in 40 years?
In reply to Dribbler:
That's exactly my point mate. Why the hell didn't the production team give themselves a 'margin of safety' and set a time span of x number of days to get some good broadcastable footage instead. Doing the whole thing live was IMHO destined for disaster, especially given the poor weather we've had this summer.
Someone certainly deserves a bollocking: the person who said, "I know, let's do it live!"
> Given Cairngorm weather this project was a BIG risk. Someone's bound to get their knuckles rapped if lots of money has been lost with no output.
That's exactly my point mate. Why the hell didn't the production team give themselves a 'margin of safety' and set a time span of x number of days to get some good broadcastable footage instead. Doing the whole thing live was IMHO destined for disaster, especially given the poor weather we've had this summer.
Someone certainly deserves a bollocking: the person who said, "I know, let's do it live!"
In reply to FedUp:
It was a big risk, but if it had been good weather it could have been fantastic, E10 live on tele, that doesn't happen very often. So can't blamne them for wanting to take a risk, but they maybe should've had a backup plan.
It was a big risk, but if it had been good weather it could have been fantastic, E10 live on tele, that doesn't happen very often. So can't blamne them for wanting to take a risk, but they maybe should've had a backup plan.
Gutted!
What can I say, there were over 60 people working on this production, some for months in advanced. Everyone there put in so much effort to make this a ground breaking show: climbers, riggers (mountain guides), BBC OB folk, productions team, climbing camera ops, etc, we were all absolutely gutted, depressed and disappointed that it turned out this way.
I think it’s a huge credit to the BBC for taking the risk on this production. I believe that if the weather had been different it could have been a show that folk would have talked about for years to come.
As for the ‘Why Live’ debate, it was live element that would have made it so very special… when did you last watch an E10 first ascent in the mountains live on TV? Come to think of it when did you last watch any great climbing live on TV?
Btw it wasn’t ‘just’ live it was live HD. And it wasn’t just climbing, it was trad climbing on one of the biggest and most remote mountain crags in the UK.
Big up Richard Else, Triple Echo and the BBC.
Diff
What can I say, there were over 60 people working on this production, some for months in advanced. Everyone there put in so much effort to make this a ground breaking show: climbers, riggers (mountain guides), BBC OB folk, productions team, climbing camera ops, etc, we were all absolutely gutted, depressed and disappointed that it turned out this way.
I think it’s a huge credit to the BBC for taking the risk on this production. I believe that if the weather had been different it could have been a show that folk would have talked about for years to come.
As for the ‘Why Live’ debate, it was live element that would have made it so very special… when did you last watch an E10 first ascent in the mountains live on TV? Come to think of it when did you last watch any great climbing live on TV?
Btw it wasn’t ‘just’ live it was live HD. And it wasn’t just climbing, it was trad climbing on one of the biggest and most remote mountain crags in the UK.
Big up Richard Else, Triple Echo and the BBC.
Diff
In reply to Padraig:
Old Man of Hoy was a group of amateur climbers.
This was a group of (mostly) guides getting paid for a day's work and being filmed.
I never really saw the point to it.
Old Man of Hoy was a group of amateur climbers.
This was a group of (mostly) guides getting paid for a day's work and being filmed.
I never really saw the point to it.
In reply to Dribbler:
No more than usual. My monthly direct debit certainly hasn't gone up to pay for it!
> (In reply to diff)
>
> how much has it cost the licence payer?
>
> D
>
> how much has it cost the licence payer?
>
> D
No more than usual. My monthly direct debit certainly hasn't gone up to pay for it!
In reply to Dribbler:
> (In reply to Padraig)
>
> Old Man of Hoy was a group of amateur climbers.
>
You must be some climber thinking Brown, Bonington and Haston were amateurs. >
> Old Man of Hoy was a group of amateur climbers.
>
In reply to Dribbler:
> (In reply to Padraig)
>
> Old Man of Hoy was a group of amateur climbers.
>
I think you do them a disservice by calling them amateurs. Were they not the 'name' climbers of their day?
>
> Old Man of Hoy was a group of amateur climbers.
>
In reply to diff:
Yes,
It's real shame it didn't happen, not for us climbers but for those who don't know what exists on their doorstep.
I was in shorts when I saw the Old Man of Hoy OB. A fantastic afternoon's viewing for a wee boy who didn't know anything about rock climbing but decided that he really wanted to do it when he grew up a bit.
Yes,
It's real shame it didn't happen, not for us climbers but for those who don't know what exists on their doorstep.
I was in shorts when I saw the Old Man of Hoy OB. A fantastic afternoon's viewing for a wee boy who didn't know anything about rock climbing but decided that he really wanted to do it when he grew up a bit.
In reply to Norrie Muir:
I mean they weren't paid for it.
I assume you were watching it on TV back then in '67. Were they paid?
D
I mean they weren't paid for it.
I assume you were watching it on TV back then in '67. Were they paid?
D
In reply to Toby S:
According to the Herald many of the male climbers invovled in the Great Climb were in tears today:
http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/news/display.var.1628532.0.bad_weather_stop...
D
According to the Herald many of the male climbers invovled in the Great Climb were in tears today:
http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/news/display.var.1628532.0.bad_weather_stop...
D
In reply to Dribbler:
> (In reply to Norrie Muir)
>
> I mean they weren't paid for it.
>
Yet again, you are wrong. >
> I mean they weren't paid for it.
>
In reply to Dribbler:
"Initially, Haston approached this with some misgivings about the commercial despoiling of the sport, but the money was too good to turn down."
> (In reply to Norrie Muir)
>
> I mean they weren't paid for it.
>
To quote from "The Philosphy of risk"
>
> I mean they weren't paid for it.
>
"Initially, Haston approached this with some misgivings about the commercial despoiling of the sport, but the money was too good to turn down."
In reply to Horse:
In '67 they came from the UK.
Fast forwarded to '07 and BBC fly in talent from S. Africa, Canada & Spain (the eye candy).
I think '07 might work out to be more expensive...
D
In '67 they came from the UK.
Fast forwarded to '07 and BBC fly in talent from S. Africa, Canada & Spain (the eye candy).
I think '07 might work out to be more expensive...
D
In reply to Dribbler:
Wrong again, Rusty Baillie was from Rhodesia.
> (In reply to Horse)
>
> In '67 they came from the UK.
>
> In '67 they came from the UK.
Wrong again, Rusty Baillie was from Rhodesia.
In reply to Dribbler:
People you would not know about, they were climbers.
> (In reply to Norrie Muir)
>
> who did he climb with in the live broadcast?
>
> who did he climb with in the live broadcast?
People you would not know about, they were climbers.
In reply to Norrie Muir:
Could it be that Rusty wasn't there in '67?
I know how much you like to be right Norrie.
> (In reply to Dribbler)
> [...]
>
> Wrong again, Rusty Baillie was from Rhodesia.
> [...]
>
> Wrong again, Rusty Baillie was from Rhodesia.
Could it be that Rusty wasn't there in '67?
I know how much you like to be right Norrie.
In reply to Dribbler:
Why should he bother, you will just ignore any facts that he provides and come up with another point. Which Norrie & others will then disprove.
And the cycle will go on and on.
Good game though
> (In reply to Norrie Muir)
>
> Enlighten me Norrie. Please.
>
> Enlighten me Norrie. Please.
Why should he bother, you will just ignore any facts that he provides and come up with another point. Which Norrie & others will then disprove.
And the cycle will go on and on.
Good game though
In reply to Graeme Alderson:
Although the dribbling is a few to none down.
Rusty Baille is named in the above reference as one of the climbers but it is not clear with whom he climbed. Haston was paired with Crew.
> (In reply to Dribbler)
> [...]
>
>
> Good game though
> [...]
>
>
> Good game though
Although the dribbling is a few to none down.
Rusty Baille is named in the above reference as one of the climbers but it is not clear with whom he climbed. Haston was paired with Crew.
In reply to Dribbler:
Either the BFI is right, see http://ftvdb.bfi.org.uk/sift/title/83692 or you are wrong, again.
> (In reply to Norrie Muir)
> [...]
>
> Could it be that Rusty wasn't there in '67?
>
> I know how much you like to be right Norrie.
> [...]
>
> Could it be that Rusty wasn't there in '67?
>
> I know how much you like to be right Norrie.
Either the BFI is right, see http://ftvdb.bfi.org.uk/sift/title/83692 or you are wrong, again.
In reply to Graeme Alderson:
Some people are beyond education and Dribbler is one. Probably, he/she was educated in an Inner City Sink School.
Some people are beyond education and Dribbler is one. Probably, he/she was educated in an Inner City Sink School.
Bit of a bloody shame IMO. I was really looking forward to that one. Not sure why they couldn't wait until mid-week, when the weather looks better, after going to all that effort?
Perhaps the environ. impact with all these people.
Got up early for it today (1pm lol) and found that badminton stuff on BBC2
Perhaps the environ. impact with all these people.
Got up early for it today (1pm lol) and found that badminton stuff on BBC2
In reply to blueshound:
I was in a camp site down near Feshiebridge and it was dry as a bone all day Sunday.
Great pity about the whole event, once in a generation opportunity went pear-shaped thanks to the great Scottish climate.
Ant bets for the next few weekends being ironically nice up that neck of the woods now
> (In reply to Richard Bradley)
>
> It's pissing down here in Aviemore.
>
> It's pissing down here in Aviemore.
I was in a camp site down near Feshiebridge and it was dry as a bone all day Sunday.
Great pity about the whole event, once in a generation opportunity went pear-shaped thanks to the great Scottish climate.
Ant bets for the next few weekends being ironically nice up that neck of the woods now
In reply to 220bpm:
I don't think August was the best time of year for this sort of thing: I always find that May/June are much drier in Scotland than 'summer'. I think the difference is more marked on the west coast but true of the Cairngorms also, at least according to my experience and the monthly rainfall chart in some hillwalking book at home...
I don't think August was the best time of year for this sort of thing: I always find that May/June are much drier in Scotland than 'summer'. I think the difference is more marked on the west coast but true of the Cairngorms also, at least according to my experience and the monthly rainfall chart in some hillwalking book at home...
In reply to Dribbler:
For the record, if you care at all, I think Rusty Baillie climbed with Tom Patey. That was the impression I got from Patey's autobiography if I remember right.
And just found this...
http://www.orkneyaccommodation.co.uk/old_man_of_hoy.htm
For the record, if you care at all, I think Rusty Baillie climbed with Tom Patey. That was the impression I got from Patey's autobiography if I remember right.
And just found this...
http://www.orkneyaccommodation.co.uk/old_man_of_hoy.htm
In reply to Neil Conway:
Shame. BUT I think it's heartening to read the BBC report that says this won't put them off doing something like this again, even though it may not be this year (sensible decision given this year's atrocious weather).
I for one will be chuffed if they decide to reschedule next year, and maybe if more people say likewise (after all, the producer IS reading these forums), it will increase the chances of it happening.
Shame. BUT I think it's heartening to read the BBC report that says this won't put them off doing something like this again, even though it may not be this year (sensible decision given this year's atrocious weather).
I for one will be chuffed if they decide to reschedule next year, and maybe if more people say likewise (after all, the producer IS reading these forums), it will increase the chances of it happening.
In reply to JB:
That used to be true. This year, and in quite a few recent years, it hasn't been so however. I always used to tell prospective visitors to Scotland to come in May or June. Now I'm not so sure.
This year it's basically been unsettled since the end of the first week in May.
> I don't think August was the best time of year for this sort of thing: I always find that May/June are much drier in Scotland than 'summer'.
That used to be true. This year, and in quite a few recent years, it hasn't been so however. I always used to tell prospective visitors to Scotland to come in May or June. Now I'm not so sure.
This year it's basically been unsettled since the end of the first week in May.
In reply to Caralynr:
Perhaps they should fix a weekend and be flexible about the venue. Go where the sun shines. Or spread thenselves out over the UK. Steve McClure at Malham, Dave Birkett in the Lakes, Dave Mc in the Cairngorms, etc.
Perhaps they should fix a weekend and be flexible about the venue. Go where the sun shines. Or spread thenselves out over the UK. Steve McClure at Malham, Dave Birkett in the Lakes, Dave Mc in the Cairngorms, etc.
In reply to Caralynr: How many of these live outdoor climbing programmes has the BBC done over the years ? I can remember watching Gogarth & Hoy as a child, and heard about a broadcast from Glencoe from Cubby (I was abroad at the time). Sutty mentioned Cloggy which I'd read about somewhere. Any others ?
All of those went ahead, although it seems not much of the Cloggy climb got broadcast but that suggests this years was the first to be cancelled due to bad weather - not a bad record.
(Have vague memories of an abandoned winter event on Ben Nevis as well)
But agree with Erik, I'd have tried for May or June rather than late August
All of those went ahead, although it seems not much of the Cloggy climb got broadcast but that suggests this years was the first to be cancelled due to bad weather - not a bad record.
(Have vague memories of an abandoned winter event on Ben Nevis as well)
But agree with Erik, I'd have tried for May or June rather than late August
In reply to sandywilson:
Possibly (and from a personal point, it's exactly what I'm having to do this year - next weekend will be Arran or Devon, depending on forecasts!), but the logistical nightmare will be even worse having multiple locations. Did you read that part on the site that said how hard it was to get all the gear set up without contravening the "leave no trace" policies of the landowners? I think if (as they should) the BBC are going to go to fairly remote places and be environmentally responsible, multiple locations will only make it harder and more costly.
Whatever happens, I think they deserve all credit for even trying something like this, and hope they aren't put off doing it at a later date
Possibly (and from a personal point, it's exactly what I'm having to do this year - next weekend will be Arran or Devon, depending on forecasts!), but the logistical nightmare will be even worse having multiple locations. Did you read that part on the site that said how hard it was to get all the gear set up without contravening the "leave no trace" policies of the landowners? I think if (as they should) the BBC are going to go to fairly remote places and be environmentally responsible, multiple locations will only make it harder and more costly.
Whatever happens, I think they deserve all credit for even trying something like this, and hope they aren't put off doing it at a later date
In reply to Doug: I can vaguely remember the Glencoe broadcast with Joe Brown, Murray Hamilton, Cubby etc on Spacewalk and something else. The 'tension' was supplied with the live argument about using chalk etc, somebody with a better memory of it might know?!
In reply to dek: Either Cubby or Murray told me it was an argument about the rival merits of using chalk or aid -I think Joe Brown made some comments about chalk being cheating while he was hanging from a peg. Anyone remember more clearly ?
In reply to dek: Freak Out and Spacewalk. Yes, vaguely remember the on-air 'debate' about chalk. I DO remember Joe pulling on a sling, saying something like "I'll just use this for a rest...or aid!", then getting really angry at the top because the camera crew had gone OTT on their belays and were hampering Joe finding one.
In reply to Doug: Also remember Cubby 'freeing' Spacewalk (?) and Murray finding it a hard move because he was a lot shorter (think he did it though).
In reply to Caralynr:
all credit for even trying something like this, and hope they aren't put off doing it at a later date
I agree entirely. I hope they give it another go (though I doubt the multiple location idea is a goer).
I was really looking forward to it.
all credit for even trying something like this, and hope they aren't put off doing it at a later date
I agree entirely. I hope they give it another go (though I doubt the multiple location idea is a goer).
I was really looking forward to it.
In reply to Marc C: Who says live broadcasts are no fun?! The Creag Dubh should have nipped up and nicked all the gear overnight, a few trundles would have livened things up no end
In reply to galpinos: yes, such a shame it didnt come off, but some things just cant be helped. But 10/10 for the initiative of trying to do it, it would have been tremendous.
In reply to JB:
Aye, May and September are usually the best months. The rest in between is a bit hit n' miss. I stand by my "nice for the next few weekends" statement tho, you just *know* it has to be true
> (In reply to 220bpm)
>
> I don't think August was the best time of year for this sort of thing: I always find that May/June are much drier in Scotland than 'summer'. I think the difference is more marked on the west coast but true of the Cairngorms also, at least according to my experience and the monthly rainfall chart in some hillwalking book at home...
>
> I don't think August was the best time of year for this sort of thing: I always find that May/June are much drier in Scotland than 'summer'. I think the difference is more marked on the west coast but true of the Cairngorms also, at least according to my experience and the monthly rainfall chart in some hillwalking book at home...
Aye, May and September are usually the best months. The rest in between is a bit hit n' miss. I stand by my "nice for the next few weekends" statement tho, you just *know* it has to be true
In reply to Marc C: I think Cubby & Murray are pretty similar in height although I haven't seen the 2 together for 20 odd years
In reply to Doug: Hmm, I definitely remember Murray (if it was he climbing with Cubby?) saying in the programme that he was only 5ft 6. And I also recall Cubby saying in an interview - years later - that Murray's climbing career had sometimes been hampered by his physique (or frame - by which I presume he meant lack of height)
In reply to Marc C:
If Murray is 5' 6", then he is much bigger than Cubby.
> (In reply to Doug) Hmm, I definitely remember Murray (if it was he climbing with Cubby?) saying in the programme that he was only 5ft 6. And I also recall Cubby saying in an interview - years later - that Murray's climbing career had sometimes been hampered by his physique (or frame - by which I presume he meant lack of height)
If Murray is 5' 6", then he is much bigger than Cubby.
In reply to Norrie Muir: I thought both were about the same height as me (around 5'4") - I always used my height (or lack of ) as an excuse till I climbed with Cubby, could only blame my lack of ability then
In reply to Norrie Muir: Well, unless I'm going senile (please feel free to confirm this Mr. Muir!), I definitely recall Murray saying (after Cubby had led the crux pitch), something to the effect of 'that looked like a long reach. I'm not sure I can do that'. Or maybe I'm definitely senile and I've got the climbers the wrong way round
In reply to Marc C:
Although Cubby is tiny, he has long arms, so it is possible that Murray could not make the reach.
> (In reply to Norrie Muir) Well, unless I'm going senile (please feel free to confirm this Mr. Muir!), I definitely recall Murray saying (after Cubby had led the crux pitch), something to the effect of 'that looked like a long reach. I'm not sure I can do that'. Or maybe I'm definitely senile and I've got the climbers the wrong way round
Although Cubby is tiny, he has long arms, so it is possible that Murray could not make the reach.
In reply to 220bpm:
I think this sort of talk smacks rather of wisdom after the event. Perhaps your use of the term "hit and miss" is most appropriate for Scottish summer weather. I went up Ben Macdui in blazing sunshine one August Bank Holiday. There seems to have been a definite tendency this year for the worst weather to happen at the weekend (in Edinburgh anyway) so perhaps they'd have been better advised to schedule their live broadcast for a Tuesday afternoon?
I prefer to say well done to them for having the idea and trying to make it work - including a degree of risk mitigation in allowing themselves the freedom to reschedule to the Sunday - and accept that the weather being as bad as it eventually turned out to be was just too much for them to be able to plan around.
Mind you, I hope you're right about the next few weekends. I'm off to Mull to accompany a friend compleating his Munro round on Ben More so it would be nice to have some decent views to go with the champagne on the summit.
> (In reply to JB)
> > I don't think August was the best time of year for this sort of thing: I always find that May/June are much drier in Scotland than 'summer'. I think the difference is more marked on the west coast but true of the Cairngorms also, at least according to my experience and the monthly rainfall chart in some hillwalking book at home...
>
> Aye, May and September are usually the best months. The rest in between is a bit hit n' miss. I stand by my "nice for the next few weekends" statement tho, you just *know* it has to be true
> > I don't think August was the best time of year for this sort of thing: I always find that May/June are much drier in Scotland than 'summer'. I think the difference is more marked on the west coast but true of the Cairngorms also, at least according to my experience and the monthly rainfall chart in some hillwalking book at home...
>
> Aye, May and September are usually the best months. The rest in between is a bit hit n' miss. I stand by my "nice for the next few weekends" statement tho, you just *know* it has to be true
I think this sort of talk smacks rather of wisdom after the event. Perhaps your use of the term "hit and miss" is most appropriate for Scottish summer weather. I went up Ben Macdui in blazing sunshine one August Bank Holiday. There seems to have been a definite tendency this year for the worst weather to happen at the weekend (in Edinburgh anyway) so perhaps they'd have been better advised to schedule their live broadcast for a Tuesday afternoon?
I prefer to say well done to them for having the idea and trying to make it work - including a degree of risk mitigation in allowing themselves the freedom to reschedule to the Sunday - and accept that the weather being as bad as it eventually turned out to be was just too much for them to be able to plan around.
Mind you, I hope you're right about the next few weekends. I'm off to Mull to accompany a friend compleating his Munro round on Ben More so it would be nice to have some decent views to go with the champagne on the summit.
In reply to Calder:
That link perpetuates a common mistake. The first ascent of the Old Man of Hoy was done in 1966 by Patey, Baillie and Bonington - this is documented in the SMC Northern HIglands guide book, in Patey's One Man's Mountains and Bonington's The Next Horizon. That ascent was not televised. The live TV broadcast was made in 1967 and, according to Norrie's link, Rusty Baillie was also present for that, as a climbing cameraman. Patey and Bonington repeated the original route, while Joe Brown and Ian Macnaught-Davis, and Dougal Haston and Pete Crew each attempted - and succeeded on - new routes.
The SMC guide book seems to be incorrect in one respect. It states that A Fistful of Dollars was "first climbed in 1967 using considerable aid." That tallies with the archive footage, eg that on the Archive section of the Great Climb web site. However, the guide book then goes on to say: "The free ascent was made for the BBC live spectacular." Was there another BBC live spectacular apart from the one in 1967?
> (In reply to Dribbler)
>
> For the record, if you care at all, I think Rusty Baillie climbed with Tom Patey. That was the impression I got from Patey's autobiography if I remember right.
>
> And just found this...
>
> http://www.orkneyaccommodation.co.uk/old_man_of_hoy.htm
>
> For the record, if you care at all, I think Rusty Baillie climbed with Tom Patey. That was the impression I got from Patey's autobiography if I remember right.
>
> And just found this...
>
> http://www.orkneyaccommodation.co.uk/old_man_of_hoy.htm
That link perpetuates a common mistake. The first ascent of the Old Man of Hoy was done in 1966 by Patey, Baillie and Bonington - this is documented in the SMC Northern HIglands guide book, in Patey's One Man's Mountains and Bonington's The Next Horizon. That ascent was not televised. The live TV broadcast was made in 1967 and, according to Norrie's link, Rusty Baillie was also present for that, as a climbing cameraman. Patey and Bonington repeated the original route, while Joe Brown and Ian Macnaught-Davis, and Dougal Haston and Pete Crew each attempted - and succeeded on - new routes.
The SMC guide book seems to be incorrect in one respect. It states that A Fistful of Dollars was "first climbed in 1967 using considerable aid." That tallies with the archive footage, eg that on the Archive section of the Great Climb web site. However, the guide book then goes on to say: "The free ascent was made for the BBC live spectacular." Was there another BBC live spectacular apart from the one in 1967?
In reply to Martin W:
all this along the lines of 'can't help the weather' is nonsense.
BBC have to manage risk along with everyone else. A proper risk management analysis would have indicated that planned event (because it was live) was too likely to be disrupted by the weather.
As other posters have said, the crucial factor was the decision for a live broadcast. I'd be interested to know how much this debacle has cost.
If BBC has lost a lot of money, the bottom line is that other Scottish programme which may have been made now won't.
all this along the lines of 'can't help the weather' is nonsense.
BBC have to manage risk along with everyone else. A proper risk management analysis would have indicated that planned event (because it was live) was too likely to be disrupted by the weather.
As other posters have said, the crucial factor was the decision for a live broadcast. I'd be interested to know how much this debacle has cost.
If BBC has lost a lot of money, the bottom line is that other Scottish programme which may have been made now won't.
In reply to Martin W:
Yes, I'm sure there was, many years later, with Pete Whillance and .. (can't remember) climbing the route free all the way. The final pitch looked amazing.
Yes, I'm sure there was, many years later, with Pete Whillance and .. (can't remember) climbing the route free all the way. The final pitch looked amazing.
In reply to Martin W: Fistful of dollars is a more recent route (1980s ? Pete Whillance ?), the Haston & Crew route was called something like SE arete. But maybe Fistful of dollars is a free version of the earlier route ?
Was there a second broadcast from Hoy ? or maybe a film ?
Was there a second broadcast from Hoy ? or maybe a film ?
In reply to Martin W: There was a 2nd OB back in about 1985 with amongst others Zoe Brown (it launched her brief TV career)
In reply to Dribbler: So what you are saying is that the Beeb and other broadcasters shouldn't bother with live OB's for any sport that is at risk from the weather eg cricket.
In reply to Graeme Alderson:
And I doubt, in the case of the climb, they had to pay anyone a few million quid for the rights to show it.
And I doubt, in the case of the climb, they had to pay anyone a few million quid for the rights to show it.
In reply to Graeme Alderson:
That's not what I said. Its about risk management not avoidance.
In this case BBC got it wrong and you can bet they won't try anything similar for a long time.
That's not what I said. Its about risk management not avoidance.
In this case BBC got it wrong and you can bet they won't try anything similar for a long time.
In reply to Horse: So the risks involved with filming cricket etc are that much higher
In reply to tony:
if you know nothing of risk management principles I suggest you buy a book or ask Norrie.
if you know nothing of risk management principles I suggest you buy a book or ask Norrie.
In reply to Dribbler: Maybe you can sell him the copy you need to buy, after you have read it.
In reply to Dribbler:
Is there any chance you could actually answer the question, rather than trying to be smart?
Is there any chance you could actually answer the question, rather than trying to be smart?
In reply to Dribbler:
How do you know that? Do you have the details of the risk evaluation they did?
> (In reply to Graeme Alderson)
>
> In this case BBC got it wrong
>
> In this case BBC got it wrong
How do you know that? Do you have the details of the risk evaluation they did?
In reply to tony:
As the Dribbler mentioned I will explain, the Dribbler has no experience of climbing or the mountains, so he has no concept of what risk management is involved in these subjects.
As the Dribbler mentioned I will explain, the Dribbler has no experience of climbing or the mountains, so he has no concept of what risk management is involved in these subjects.
In reply to Martin W:
No pontificating from me. Most of us on here have enough experience to know it was a calculated risk.
I went up Ben Macdui in blazing sunshine one August Bank Holiday. There seems to have been a definite tendency this year for the worst weather to happen at the weekend (in Edinburgh anyway) so perhaps they'd have been better advised to schedule their live broadcast for a Tuesday afternoon?
Happy compleating, congrats in advance to yer buddy
> (In reply to 220bpm)
> [...]
>
> I think this sort of talk smacks rather of wisdom after the event. Perhaps your use of the term "hit and miss" is most appropriate for Scottish summer weather.
> [...]
>
> I think this sort of talk smacks rather of wisdom after the event. Perhaps your use of the term "hit and miss" is most appropriate for Scottish summer weather.
No pontificating from me. Most of us on here have enough experience to know it was a calculated risk.
I went up Ben Macdui in blazing sunshine one August Bank Holiday. There seems to have been a definite tendency this year for the worst weather to happen at the weekend (in Edinburgh anyway) so perhaps they'd have been better advised to schedule their live broadcast for a Tuesday afternoon?
>
Snow in August or factor 30 in the bag. We've all seen them both. A friend reports more rain in Feshiebridge this am.
> I prefer to say well done to them for having the idea and trying to make it work - including a degree of risk mitigation in allowing themselves the freedom to reschedule to the Sunday - and accept that the weather being as bad as it eventually turned out to be was just too much for them to be able to plan around.
>
Couldn't agree more.
>
> Mind you, I hope you're right about the next few weekends. I'm off to Mull to accompany a friend compleating his Munro round on Ben More so it would be nice to have some decent views to go with the champagne on the summit.
Happy compleating, congrats in advance to yer buddy
In reply to tony:
I have forgotten your original question.
All this 'blame the weather' stuff just smacks to me of the usual Scottish closing ranks when something goes wrong and large amounts of money goes down the pan.
Its not quite as bad as the Scottish Parliament fiasco - which after months of investigations concluded 'no one is to blame but we've managed to pin most of it on the dead guy - but its along the same lines.
I have forgotten your original question.
All this 'blame the weather' stuff just smacks to me of the usual Scottish closing ranks when something goes wrong and large amounts of money goes down the pan.
Its not quite as bad as the Scottish Parliament fiasco - which after months of investigations concluded 'no one is to blame but we've managed to pin most of it on the dead guy - but its along the same lines.
In reply to Doug:
Referring again to the SMC guide book, in the first ascent list section it says of SE Arete: Originally climbed at A4, this climb is now superceded by the free climb "A Fistful of Dollars". The date for the FA of SE Arete is 8-9 Jul 1967 ie the date of the original live OB. A Fistful of Dollars is listed as being first climbed by Whillance & Hamilton on 28 Jun 1984, which seems to support other posters' recollections of a later OB.
So it looks like the preamble to the route description is basically correct, but there is scope for confusion because it is referring to a later (and apparently less famous) OB.
> (In reply to Martin W) Fistful of dollars is a more recent route (1980s ? Pete Whillance ?), the Haston & Crew route was called something like SE arete. But maybe Fistful of dollars is a free version of the earlier route ?
Referring again to the SMC guide book, in the first ascent list section it says of SE Arete: Originally climbed at A4, this climb is now superceded by the free climb "A Fistful of Dollars". The date for the FA of SE Arete is 8-9 Jul 1967 ie the date of the original live OB. A Fistful of Dollars is listed as being first climbed by Whillance & Hamilton on 28 Jun 1984, which seems to support other posters' recollections of a later OB.
So it looks like the preamble to the route description is basically correct, but there is scope for confusion because it is referring to a later (and apparently less famous) OB.
In reply to Martin W: I remember watching the 2nd OB (the one with Zoe). Various mentions of it on the web http://www.joe-brown.com/1982--1984.html although some of the mentions say Zoe was on Tiswas and I am sure it was Razzamatazz that she was on.
In reply to Dribbler:
What?! Comparing an OB which has been canceled due to bad weather to the Scottish Parliament which cost $400 million - you're daft!
> (In reply to tony)
>
> I have forgotten your original question.
>
> All this 'blame the weather' stuff just smacks to me of the usual Scottish closing ranks when something goes wrong and large amounts of money goes down the pan.
>
> Its not quite as bad as the Scottish Parliament fiasco - which after months of investigations concluded 'no one is to blame but we've managed to pin most of it on the dead guy - but its along the same lines.
>
> I have forgotten your original question.
>
> All this 'blame the weather' stuff just smacks to me of the usual Scottish closing ranks when something goes wrong and large amounts of money goes down the pan.
>
> Its not quite as bad as the Scottish Parliament fiasco - which after months of investigations concluded 'no one is to blame but we've managed to pin most of it on the dead guy - but its along the same lines.
What?! Comparing an OB which has been canceled due to bad weather to the Scottish Parliament which cost $400 million - you're daft!
In reply to Toby S: You've only just noticed ?
In reply to Caralynr:
Apparently the RSPB almost threw them off when they were setting up last week because they put a shelter (or something like that) 1m away from where their plan showed it. Does "leave no trace" count for climbers as well. Dread to think of how many miles of tat are left on routes at present.
> (In reply to sandywilson)
>
>Did you read that part on the site that said how hard it was to get all the gear set up without contravening the "leave no trace" policies of the landowners?
>
Apparently the RSPB almost threw them off when they were setting up last week because they put a shelter (or something like that) 1m away from where their plan showed it. Does "leave no trace" count for climbers as well. Dread to think of how many miles of tat are left on routes at present.
Maybe Dave wants to go down and finish off Indian Face since it's drying out and it's 7b with poor gear and he's on about climbing 8a+ with worse gear...
"where Indian Face is 7b with bad pro, this is top end 8a+ with even worse pro. Hmmm E10 for sure."
Who actually beleives all this sh*te? I personally find it all rather tedious. I've nothing against Dave, never met him, but he's coming across as a bit of a div with all this b*llsh*te. Mate take some sound advice, keep your mouth shut and just get on with it. If you want to make money become an estate agent or something.
Peace,
Craig
"where Indian Face is 7b with bad pro, this is top end 8a+ with even worse pro. Hmmm E10 for sure."
Who actually beleives all this sh*te? I personally find it all rather tedious. I've nothing against Dave, never met him, but he's coming across as a bit of a div with all this b*llsh*te. Mate take some sound advice, keep your mouth shut and just get on with it. If you want to make money become an estate agent or something.
Peace,
Craig
In reply to everyone: It's a bit of a shame, I was rather looking forward to watching someone else scare themselves trying to climb wet rock this Summer...
However, it seems 'The World's Top Climbers' have a bit more sense than Rich Mayfield and I have when it comes to climbing Shelter Stone in torrential rain
However, it seems 'The World's Top Climbers' have a bit more sense than Rich Mayfield and I have when it comes to climbing Shelter Stone in torrential rain
In reply to Craig Smith:
Mate take some sound advice, keep your mouth shut and just get on with it. If you want to make money become an estate agent or something.
So how do you think you have the experience of PR/agent for non mainstream sporting athletes to make money? I presume you must have some experience on your resume as you say so confidently that Dave MacLeod (who is doing very well for himself) should take your advice...
Laughable
Tens
Mate take some sound advice, keep your mouth shut and just get on with it. If you want to make money become an estate agent or something.
So how do you think you have the experience of PR/agent for non mainstream sporting athletes to make money? I presume you must have some experience on your resume as you say so confidently that Dave MacLeod (who is doing very well for himself) should take your advice...
Laughable
Tens
In reply to Craig Smith:
Have you met him? I just wonder what leads you to conclude he's a liar. I've always found him to be scrupulously honest and fair but maybe I don't know him as well as you do.
>
> Who actually beleives all this sh*te? I personally find it all rather tedious. I've nothing against Dave, never met him, but he's coming across as a bit of a div with all this b*llsh*te. Mate take some sound advice, keep your mouth shut and just get on with it. If you want to make money become an estate agent or something.
>
> Who actually beleives all this sh*te? I personally find it all rather tedious. I've nothing against Dave, never met him, but he's coming across as a bit of a div with all this b*llsh*te. Mate take some sound advice, keep your mouth shut and just get on with it. If you want to make money become an estate agent or something.
>
Have you met him? I just wonder what leads you to conclude he's a liar. I've always found him to be scrupulously honest and fair but maybe I don't know him as well as you do.
> > Who actually beleives all this sh*te? I personally find it all rather tedious. I've nothing against Dave, never met him, but he's coming across as a bit of a div with all this b*llsh*te. Mate take some sound advice, keep your mouth shut and just get on with it. If you want to make money become an estate agent or something.
I believe all that sh*te and you might too if you had met him. I stand to be corrected but believe that Dave's decision not to try IF was more due to the nature of the rock than JUST the gear. He didnt want it all coming down to the possibility of one flakey hold snapping and felt that the chances of that were higher than he was prepared to accept for that route - and was quite up front about that.
For a sponsored climber he's actually quite matter of fact and modest and if he did want to make money would be doing something else (he definitely has the brains); he seems happy to make sufficient money (just) to keep him climbing full time.
Al
In reply to Dribbler:
i know that many people find it comforting to think that there's A Reason for eveything but it's not always the case
>
> i.e. mistakes are made but no one to blame.
> i.e. mistakes are made but no one to blame.
i know that many people find it comforting to think that there's A Reason for eveything but it's not always the case
In reply to Dribbler:
As you don't want people to fulfil their potential, you would have the BBC broadcast the climbers climbing a V Diff.
PS As you know nothing about climbing, a V Diff is a modest climbing grade.
As you don't want people to fulfil their potential, you would have the BBC broadcast the climbers climbing a V Diff.
PS As you know nothing about climbing, a V Diff is a modest climbing grade.
In reply to Norrie Muir:
I've already said the BBC makes plenty of good climbing/outdoors programmes - the Edge, Coast and lots of others.
Whenever someone puts a post on these forums and says 'I want to climb ... route in Scotland on ... day' there's always a host of people saying why it can't be done and why its important to wait for the right conditions etc.
Suddenly the BBC do it, fall flat on their face and waste lots of money in the process, and its no issue.
Funny old world.
D
I've already said the BBC makes plenty of good climbing/outdoors programmes - the Edge, Coast and lots of others.
Whenever someone puts a post on these forums and says 'I want to climb ... route in Scotland on ... day' there's always a host of people saying why it can't be done and why its important to wait for the right conditions etc.
Suddenly the BBC do it, fall flat on their face and waste lots of money in the process, and its no issue.
Funny old world.
D
In reply to Dribbler:
If you climbed in Scotland, you would know that there is no guarantee of getting a route done. Most climber put it down to experience.
My I suggest you get some experience of climbing in Scotland, before pontificate more about the subject. You could start by reading about it, I can recommend One Man's Mountain by Tom Patey.
If you climbed in Scotland, you would know that there is no guarantee of getting a route done. Most climber put it down to experience.
My I suggest you get some experience of climbing in Scotland, before pontificate more about the subject. You could start by reading about it, I can recommend One Man's Mountain by Tom Patey.
In reply to Dribbler:
Why does someone have to be blamed?
I have been the Cairngorm in summer to climb and the weather turned foul on me, who should I have blamed? I put it under the category sh*t happens.
> (In reply to Toby S)
>
> i.e. mistakes are made but no one to blame.
>
> i.e. mistakes are made but no one to blame.
Why does someone have to be blamed?
I have been the Cairngorm in summer to climb and the weather turned foul on me, who should I have blamed? I put it under the category sh*t happens.
In reply to Norrie Muir:
Shut up norrie , you misrable old fart.
This would have been an amazing tv event. Ground breaking. I think everyone should remember this.
Shut up norrie , you misrable old fart.
This would have been an amazing tv event. Ground breaking. I think everyone should remember this.
In reply to spa_bob:
Are you related to the Dribbler? Is he/she your brother/sister?
> (In reply to Norrie Muir)
> Shut up norrie , you misrable old fart.
> Shut up norrie , you misrable old fart.
Are you related to the Dribbler? Is he/she your brother/sister?
In reply to spa_bob:
I think you need to direct that comment at Dribbler not Norrie.
Dribbler, why does someone need to be 'blamed' for the cancellation of the event. You can't do anything about the weather, it's hardly their 'fault' the weather crapped out, I certainly don't think they were unreasonable in planning it for the this time of year.
You seem to have a bit of a chip in your shoulder about anything that goes in Scotland that doesn't go quite to plan. I don't think you can blame the SNP for this one!
> (In reply to Norrie Muir)
> Shut up norrie , you misrable old fart.
>
> This would have been an amazing tv event. Ground breaking. I think everyone should remember this.
> Shut up norrie , you misrable old fart.
>
> This would have been an amazing tv event. Ground breaking. I think everyone should remember this.
I think you need to direct that comment at Dribbler not Norrie.
Dribbler, why does someone need to be 'blamed' for the cancellation of the event. You can't do anything about the weather, it's hardly their 'fault' the weather crapped out, I certainly don't think they were unreasonable in planning it for the this time of year.
You seem to have a bit of a chip in your shoulder about anything that goes in Scotland that doesn't go quite to plan. I don't think you can blame the SNP for this one!
In reply to Toby S: It was the SNPs fault
In reply to Dribbler:
Really? Can you point us to a couple of examples?
Presumably you do know the difference between summer and winter climbing?
> (In reply to Norrie Muir)
>
> Whenever someone puts a post on these forums and says 'I want to climb ... route in Scotland on ... day' there's always a host of people saying why it can't be done and why its important to wait for the right conditions etc.
>
>
> Whenever someone puts a post on these forums and says 'I want to climb ... route in Scotland on ... day' there's always a host of people saying why it can't be done and why its important to wait for the right conditions etc.
>
Really? Can you point us to a couple of examples?
Presumably you do know the difference between summer and winter climbing?
In reply to Alan Taylor:
you might have noticed the weather has been crap since they got elected. Perhaps the big man upstairs is trying to tell us something...
D
> (In reply to Toby S) It was the SNPs fault
you might have noticed the weather has been crap since they got elected. Perhaps the big man upstairs is trying to tell us something...
D
Hell's Lum was awesome today!! JEEZ! Can't believe the luck the team has had!! Saw some of them 2 weeks ago (obviously practicing) and was REALLY looking forward to seeing the "real thing".
In reply to Dribbler:
I'm back now from North Wales you will be pleased to hear. Shame the broadcast didn't go ahead. Once you have contacted the BBC about the costs and blame etc could you let us know where to complain to?
I'm back now from North Wales you will be pleased to hear. Shame the broadcast didn't go ahead. Once you have contacted the BBC about the costs and blame etc could you let us know where to complain to?
In reply to Donald M: why !!!
In reply to alandougan:
Good point! Like it'll make a difference!!!
Look on the bright side...nxt time JB will be on hand to lend assistance!!
> (In reply to Donald M) why !!!
Good point! Like it'll make a difference!!!
Look on the bright side...nxt time JB will be on hand to lend assistance!!
In reply to alandougan:
I was taking the piss, of course no "blame" needs to be attributed but poor Dribbler seems determined to find blame and error where none exists. I hope they go ahead and give it another go.
I was taking the piss, of course no "blame" needs to be attributed but poor Dribbler seems determined to find blame and error where none exists. I hope they go ahead and give it another go.
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