UKC

Several members of the FRCC, and apparently the BMC, are seriously considering retro bolting many of the routes in the historic Hodge Close Quarry, Coniston.

I urge all those against this mindless and selfish act to make your protestations known at The Golden Rule pub in Ambleside this Wednesday evening 03/10/07 at around 7.00pm.

A meeting has apparently been arranged by the leading protagonists to explain themselves and to let others have their say.

See you there.

Jake Hughes

In reply to Jake Hughes:

I might not be there.

However you can put forward me ("Fiend, from UKClimbing.com") as someone who has travelled from Sheffield several times to visit Hodge Close and would strongly object to any retro-bolting of any classic, good, or even starred traditional or semi-bolted routes. Unstarred, unused or poor quality trad routes excepted.

To be honest, I cannot understand why ANYONE would consider it a remotely acceptable idea in the first place. It's bloody obvious that there are some real trad classics and it's bloody obvious their tradness makes them classic.

In reply to Jake Hughes:

I see no mention of retro-bolting Hodge, Jake.

A meeting has apparently been arranged by the leading protagonists to explain themselves and to let others have their say.

See below for the real reasons a meeting has been called.

Sep 28: Attention All Lake District Climbers

http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/older.html?month=09&year=2007#40204

Topics for next Wednesday's Ambleside meeting include:

Bolts

Lower Offs

FRCC guidebook progress

Overgrown crags and clean ups

Access restrictions

Bolt fund support

Eden Valley development

St Bees bolts and bouldering

Anything else you want to talk about

"Dave Turnbull, BMC supremo will be there, as will Dan Middleton who dishes out bolts and Cath Flitcroft who is the 'acceptable face' of the BMC - that is, no beard."

As well as cake guy... BMC Volunteers' Officer, Martin Kocsis.

UKClimbing.com will be there to report back to the general climbing community.

Mick

In reply to Jake Hughes:

Please tell me this is some sick troll.

I won't be able to make it but as someone who has done most of the routes in the quarry, I have to say that I'm dead against it. Sky used to be a good route until it got retro-bolted.

boB

Oh, and name and shame the protagonists after the meeting.

In reply to Bob:

Unless Jake can give some substancial evidence I think you will find that it is Bob.

There are lots of issues in the Lakes that need addressing.

Primarily trying to encourage community energy and activism which would benefit climbing in the Lake District. All need to get involved, climbers, independent climbing retailers in the Lakes, climbing walls, guides, climbing schools: everyone.

It would be a crying shame if this meeting was sidelined by ranting from the pro and anti-bolt mischief makers.

Mick

In reply to Bob:

How hard was it before it was bolted? Was it a chop route like many of retro bolted llanberis routes?

I'm absolutely against retro bolting of the routes. However I do belive that those that have been bolted, limited edition ect. Should remain bolted with well maintained bolts.

Are you going to be there Mick?

How hard was it

In reply to Jake Hughes:

Whats the issue?

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Limited Edition was originally a mixture of bolts and pegs - I think 3 bolts and two (sawn off) pegs, the pegs have since been replaced by bolts. Actually there were two bolts side by side to protect the crux but now there is just one.

Sky was originally E3 6a but fairly low in the grade. Slightly "spooky" but steady.

boB

All the usual euphemistic type talk Mick that makes such forums as this one so tedious and homogenously regulated.

Lets hope such phoney "for the benefit of all" type horse shit does not spoil the productivity of the evening, and that members of both the FRCC and BMC have their ears and eyes wide open as much as the non membered will without doubt be having theirs.

In reply to Jake Hughes:

What the hell does it need retrobolting for?!

In reply to Jake Hughes:


I think you will find that the FRCC and the BMC are against retro-bolting Jake.

You have been ill-informed.

Retro bolts are placed by individual climbers. If you object to them the solution is quite simple - take them out.....as I have done on occaision.

Mick

In reply to Bob:

Sky was E4 5c in the Dow guide due to shaky flakes.

In reply to Jake Hughes:


That's a pretty bad attitude for someone trying to drum up support for an issue.

Do you have evidence to back up your original claim then??

In reply to Fiend:

I very much doubt it, although I will ask him tomorrow.

I should have said misinformed rather than ill-informed.

There is no issue here Fiend, although it should be entertaining.

If Jake really wants to be informed about the BMC Better Bolts campaign he can read this

http://thebmc.co.uk/News.aspx?id=1975

"These bolts are for like-for-like replacement only, and all projects have been approved by the local BMC area.

The bolt funds now will have some of the equipment they need to replace some of the dangerous old bolts and lower offs blighting our crags. "

These are the people who approve applications for bolts provided by the BMC.

Pat Littlejohn, BMC Vice-President
Rab Carrington, BMC Vice-President
Steve McClure
Dave Turnbull, BMC Chief Exec.
Dan Middleton, BMC Technical Officer

In reply to Jake Hughes: Jake, this open meeting is exactly the place to raise the issues of retro/bolting. by some quirk of historical fate, they have become the 'legitimate' forum for binding decisions regarding such stuff. i don't know what the situation is, but there will be plenty of people there who will.

bring your opinions and passions along and let's get it sorted out.

see you tomorrow (i hope there's enough room)

In reply to Fiend:

Well ,seemingly,there isn't an issue, as everyone is, apparently, against!

My vitriol is mine alone and not for some kind of rally call. My personal experiances of both FRCC and BMC on climbing issues in the Lakes have all shown a dangerously blinkered and arrogant attitude on their part.

My wording is a pure hope that such similar experiances are not had tomorrow night.

In reply to Fiend:

E3 originally, then went up to E4 in subsequent editions.

boB

In reply to Jake Hughes: well, you must be pretty riled by the issue to make only your second ever post in as many years! i can't say what issues you feel the bmc have shown themselves to be arrogant and blinkered over in the past but that was, as you've said yourself, in the past. see you tomorrow.

p.s. do you know anyone going down from penrith...'tom ripley' (see other thread) needs a lift

In reply to Martin Kocsis, BMC:

I think Jake and Stuart Wood have had a very close relationship with Hodge Close in the past so understandably if there are inklings of a shipment of bolts heading north from Manchester they may be understandably alarmed.

I am sure you will pacify them Martin, preferably with a few pints of XB.

In reply to Martin Kocsis, BMC:

Might be best getting in touch with the Needlesport folks about lift for Tom: they might know good contacts for people heading south.

Being advised to "pacify" myself and Stuart Wood with a few pints of XB could very well be the worst piece of advice you have ever been given!!

See you in the future.

In reply to Jake Hughes:


I'll get the second with a whiskey chaser.

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: I'm sorted with a lift now.

Will you be there Michael?

In reply to Jake Hughes:

Slightly off-topic, but I was just wondering if Stiff Little Fingers still exists. Did it fall down?

In reply to Steve Parker:

Only the upper pitch, shame as it was a good route.

In reply to Jake Hughes:
"Well ,seemingly,there isn't an issue, as everyone is, apparently, against!"

The only issue is WAYYY tooo many fceking commas!!
Check facts in future??
P

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

For you Tom, I will go to the ends of the earth. I have loved you like I have loved no other man.

Yes I shall be there.

Mick

In reply to craig h:

You mean that last slabby bit at the top?

What's below that now then? Just choss?

In reply to Jake Hughes: From what I understand, the BMC Lakes Area meeting has been been rather low key in the last few years due to a lack of interest. I believe Martin is trying to renew interest in the Lakes again by starting this action group folling the huge success of The Wales Action Group.

Bolts and bolting is always a good topic to get everyone turning up but it doesn't mean it is a done deal. The whole point of holding these meetings is to get a feel for what we as climbers want. We held a similar meeting in Lancashire a couple weeks ago which was attended by about 25 people who all made valuable contributions into how they felt about bolting in the NW area. The policy we hold as an area now reflects that opinion.

By all means, get people to go to the meeting, but don't assume that it is a meeting to discuss ways in which the whole Lake District can be bolted because it certainly won't be. The agenda for bolting in the Lake District is set by good folks like yourself in a democratic way.

In reply to Jon Dittman:



Ditto to Dittman on "democratic" leanings!!


>The agenda for bolting in the Lake District is set by good folks like yourself in a democratic way>

Here Here.