UKC

Went up to Kendal yesterday and did a couple of hours on the auto belayers. What a great workout. I don't particularly enjoy inddoor walls, but what a piece of kit these are to get some mileage in when its pissing down.

In reply to TWINKLETOES:
Bah. I miss the Leeds Wall autobelays.

In reply to gingerkate:

Have Leeds got rid?

In reply to TWINKLETOES:
Yeah, they got rid. I understand why they did, and I don't blame them or anything ... but I really miss them. I got into a habit of using them for lapping, and it were great fun, and it was getting me stronger. Bah

In reply to TWINKLETOES:

tried one for the first time yest. didn't like it. in spite of seeing several people lowered to the ground safely before me, I bottled it 1/3 hieght and backed off. I guess the downclimb did me some good though.

In reply to nikinko:
The first time I used one I couldn't let go at the top. I climbed up and down four times I think, before exhaustion made me give in to the lowering system. But the distrust soon wears off.

In reply to gingerkate:
The first time I used one it was in their original marketplace, as an industrial descender. I had to step off a platform into space for a 15m ish drop to the floor. It definitely took some willpower to trust the thing.

In reply to TWINKLETOES:

Someone told me one of these had failed recently as a result Westway removed all theirs.

Can anyone tell me if this is true or a load of cr*p?

In reply to hailtryfan: true. not sure off the full story but there was a thread on here a while ago about them!!

In reply to danny 7a+:

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=221994

There have also been various reports of "user failure" - people forgetting to clip them probably, so I can sympathise with any wall that wanted to rip them out.

In reply to nikinko:

No doubt about that. Downclimbing is good. I noticed that I lower a bit faster than really light people. We used a similar thing called the 'Fan' during Para training. I'm no Physicist but would imagine similar mechanics?

In reply to hutchm:
Yes, that's right ... I think Leeds had thought of getting rid before the Westway accident, because of people forgetting to clip. Westway accident was the final straw.

In reply to TWINKLETOES: I can't quite get my head round the idea of someone Forgetting to clip in and then just letting go? can you explain how people manage to forget to clip in!!

In reply to JamieW:

Careless, complacent, distracted, overconfident, tired, ignorant for starters.

I have to admit I always double check before I let go at the top

Shit i was just starting to trust those things. Was there ever a proper statement about what happened at Westway?

In reply to sjbutterworth:

The forgetting-to-clip-in thing is quite a problem, apparently. I've never come close to forgetting, and I personally feel safer with a machine with one known case of failure than a bloke easily distracted by needing scratch his balls, pick nose etc.

In terms of climbing, I like autobelays because if you fall off, you have to climb all the way back up again to make the move; gives you better concentration and endurance at the crux than top ropers who get to do the same move over and over and over.

In reply to TWINKLETOES:

I was told by the guy on reception (I asked as I'd not used one before) I would need to 'fall confidently' rather than just slither down. Makes sense. When I started to get nervous another climber suggested I got a bit higher before going for it, as it didn't stop you instantly. That combined, together with my girlfriend sitting in the cafe pissing herself laughing coz I'm always lecturing her about 'trusting the system' put me off I think!

In reply to nikinko:
They must vary then. The ones Leeds Wall used to have were very good for going for hard moves low down ... much better than using a toprope and a human belayer ... no matter how tiny your fall, they made it soft.

I'm coming round to the way of thinking of the person above who said, they may fail, but human belayers fail more often.

In reply to TWINKLETOES:

Terrifying bit of kit ! the first time you let go and start falling. I've only used the Kendal ones so I'm not sure if they are all the same ?

Someone I know fell off Milton Keynes wall when she forgot to connect to the auto belay, soloed to the top and just let go. Broken back (happily recovered) as a result

What actually happened at the Westway - i.e. did the autobelay device have a catastrophic failure? Or was there a usage error?

In reply to gingerkate: It is indeed a crying shame. I had my best ever trip to Spain after three months (not continuously) of lapping on the autobelays until I was pumped stupid.

My solution to the making sure I was clipped in problem was to awlays jump off after the first purple hold (as set at the leeds wall) on the first route of a block. Therefore if I forgot I would only fall 6" tops. It seemed to work.

In reply to TWINKLETOES: We have them where I work (xscape miton keynes) and I have to admit they are pretty good for training! It's just up and down up and down..good for stamina because if you fall you come down and have to start over again!

In reply to TWINKLETOES: Did anyone find out what caused the Westway accident in the end? It seems all the walls took down their autobelays, then put them back a month or two later, but no one has said much about whether there was ever a problem or not?

In reply to Dr Avid: I'm invoking the FOIA in an attempt to find out. Will post here if I am successful.

In reply to JPG:

FOI only applies to public authorites, and contracts held with public authorities. Westway is a registered charity rather than a public authority so they may well not have to comply.

But I might be wrong.

In reply to sjbutterworth:

You're not wrong. Still, it will give them a giggle down at the Westway...

In reply to sjbutterworth:

Really? I don't think thats true is it?

In reply to grumsta:


Have a look and see what you think

http://www.foi.gov.uk/yourRights/coverageguide.htm

In reply to sjbutterworth:

Ah ok, just i used to work for a uni and it applied to them and I thought they were private companies effectively these days.

In reply to sjbutterworth: would it apply to the hse?

In reply to Dazzle:

Yes, to a certain extent. I imagine that they could make the exemptions work for them in relation to any relationship they have with a particular organisation.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/foi/hscscheme.htm

In reply to TWINKLETOES: auto's are really good for a workout. some people don't trust them. i can see why at times. some of them can't keep up if you climb to fast, so if you fall it means a further fall and some of the auto's don't like that.

we have to inspect our's daily at work. we used to have 4, but we've cut back to 1 now for some reason. i think it's because the elements have gotten to them and we (the staff) have kind of used them a lot and had a few bad falls (fell from 10ft or so at the weekend and had a badly bruised ego)

I think auto belays are great, especially when your belay buddy lames out and stays at home! It means you can still go to the wall and do some relatively high stuff (I've always preferred roped climbing to bouldering but often end up bouldering just because theres no-one to go with and no auto belay at my local).

It definitely took a bit of bottle to come down the first time but now I actually enjoy the consistency with which it arrests your fall. I also like the fact that its all or nothing on the routes, no rests, no belay buddy to encourage you, no reassuring clips. You fall, you are back at the bottom. Kind of like soloing without the danger factor!

I think it would be a real shame if autobelays ended up getting fazed out because of a few incompetent people, if anything more should be installed as it encourages people to go climbing on their own if they want to and is also a great way to train.

In reply to tomentalist:
i think it's because the elements have gotten to them and we (the staff) have kind of used them a lot and had a few bad falls (fell from 10ft or so at the weekend and had a badly bruised ego)

you scare me.

In reply to TWINKLETOES:

The Beacon in North Wales now have the auto belay attached to a piece of material (attached to the ground) which when not being used covers the first 3 ft of climbing holds, so you can't start climbing.

In reply to Alrobertson: haha. my boss is scared by me as well. i've had 7 girls leave me because of that kind of stupidness.

and i still don't stop doing it

In reply to bryn: I was up Kendal wall today, and got talking to someone that uses Leeds wall, he said they removed the auto belayers for H&S reasons. Yet the only accidents I've heard of are folk forgetting to clip in, and somebody climbing above the auto belayer. FFS its not rocket science. Climbed at Beacon climbing wall a few years ago, found the grading pretty soft touch. What you reckon?