UKC

In reply to Glyn Jones:

Congratulations - you've managed to pick two very small sections which do repeat some of the elements of E11. Hardly surprising when it's such a milestone in his life.

I thought it was a really good article. It's only a shame that none of the British mags manage anything remotely similar - why does it take an American mag to produce a decent profile of one of our best climbers?

In reply to Glyn Jones:

Really? I thought the article covered a lot more than the film.

In reply to tony:


Its one of my bug bears of Brtish climbing mags that they seem afraid to publish profiles of climbers. Presumably we, the UK climbing public, think its all about the climb than the climber. I've read few interesting profiles in British climbing media.

In reply to Tyler:
Very good article.

In reply to Tyler:

Now on the news page

http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/

Thanks Tyler.

In reply to Tyler: In fall 2005, he seemed to be getting close. Then, after a rainy spell, the Scotsman snapped off a key hold

I never realised that that newspaper took such an interest in climbing. Bit mean to trash the route just when he was preparing to go for the lead, though. Perhaps they were short of news that day?

In reply to Tyler:

Excellent. The US mags have always done this sort of thing much better than us for some reason.

Is it common knowledge where this Ben Nevis project is? I think I can guess, but anyone know?

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

They fully understand that to sustain a big readership you have to have excellent content, and those two provide an effective platform for advertisers which is how the media make their money.

In reply to Tyler: Excellent, I really enjoyed that!

In reply to Tyler:




Agreed. Editors with no vision - or no mandate??



Maybe... maybe not. The editors decide what we get to read; the antithesis of a democratic process.

It's basic human nature to want to know the story behind the route - and the person behind the story.

To be blunt, the article was no more than competent. It was utterly uninspired. It didn't get any more inside his/her head than the (excellent) video did. And it should have - because it could begin where the video left off.

Great climbers deserve inspired editors... and great writers.

Mick

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Saw him at a lecture in London and I think he said it was on the Comb. A lump of rock he's put up new routes on already.

In reply to Tyler:

Classic quote:

'On the day I visited, a young guy with a liter of vile, cherry-colored liquor and a fishing rod had built a fire by the rocky beach.'

Septic tanks discover weegies and Coatbridge Table Wine!

Must have been a real eye opener...

In reply to Glyn Jones: What's a verbatum?

In reply to John2:
I'm guessing that it's another word for borborygmi.

In reply to John2: look how close the i and u are on a keyboard and decide.

In reply to Glyn Jones: I have already decided. You are a tedious illiterate idiot. It wouldn't have made sense had you typed verbatim.

In reply to John2: whatever, I'll stick to the dvd.

In reply to Mick Ward:



Uhhhhhh.....it was pitched at an American audience many of whome have probably never heard of Dave MacLeod, E11 or have watched the E11 DVD.

I thought it was a well written retrospective, a foundation of knowledge about what MacLeod has done so far.

In reply to gingerkate:

Hahaaa! Very clever!

:0)

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

Well we've heard of Cobra Crack, err, haven't we? So why wouldn't they have heard of Rhapsody??

Let's imagine a UK writer does an article on Sonnie Trotter. Is it just going to be about 'the sends' and 'the process'? Or is it (I'm guessing) going to be about going through a rollercoaster of emotion, from joy to despair and all the way back again?

As a reader, I want more than well written retrospectives and foundations of knowledge. I want the essence of the person. Is that too much to expect of climbing writing? Evidently. And that's why for me (and many others?) it's boring.

Mick

"Britain, the last bastion of dangerous rockclimbing"

???

Bloody Yanks.

In reply to Mick Ward:

Because some people are not totally focussed on world climbing events.



No. Climbing magazine have a reputation for that type of writing, and if you are familiar with Dougald's writing you will know that he does a lot of that.

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:


Mick, can we stop the sophistry - please? Nobody's 'totally focussed' on world climbing events... or indeed anything. Are you simply covering up insularity? (Is it relevant that, it's claimed, over 80% of Americans don't have a passport? Doubtless some UKCer will have the corrent figure.)



It seemed to me that Climbing got sanitised - and thereby boring - somewhere around the early 1990s. Suddenly there was a plethora of VPs, where there used to be climber/writers. Then there was the musical chairs swap with Rock and Ice. Never understood that; perhaps you do?

If I'm doing (your friend?) Dougald a disservice, than I apologise, here and now. But I didn't get much of 'that type of writing', as you put it, in this article.

Go to any crag and ask any sample of climbers, "Do you read climbing mags?" They will mostly say, "We used to." Something's wrong, somewhere - and, if it wasn't something I care about, I wouldn't bother with these replies.

Mick

In reply to Mick Ward:

No not relevant. After spending 12 years in the USA I know American climbers, on the whole, as interested in world affairs and travel.



Yes. I have a good knowledge of the 'musical chairs.' Climbing, after Michael Kennedy, was owned by Primedia (a huge media company), hence all those VP's, now it is climber owned. Mark Crowther bought it (he's from Bristol).



Yip. That is well known. There are three seperate groups planning new UK climbing magazines.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:


Yep, and its not the Comb.

In reply to Mick Ward:

To accuse Americans of insularity in this context seems a bit churlish, I mean, could you imagine a British mag putting an American on their front cover and making him their lead article? As far as insularity goes I don't think you should look any further than British mags, I often find myself cringing whenever a UK climber does something good as its frequently written up as "UK climber goes over the channel and shows those foreign johnnies how its done".

The oft quoted "only 20% of Americans have a passport" comment is also a bit of a red herring. A lot of Brits have them because they were necessary and its the easiest way still of getting into France and Spain where the vast majority sit in British style bars and restaurants whinging about the foreigners. How many Brits would have passports if we had the wealth of holidays available to Americans in our own country?

As for the article itself, I thought it was good. It may only have been competent or workman like but it was still better than 90% of the rubbish in UK mags and is its an article picked at random from an American magazine that's pretty good in my book. I learnt stuff in it I'd never read before about MacLeod and I do tend to take note of these things

In reply to Tyler: I'm normally a defender of the British magazines, but I just bought the last Climb last night (takes a wee bit of time to make it to Helsinki) and noticed in the beginner corner on winter climbing the bloke suggests that 60 mtr ropes are really what you want for winter climbing, then in the gear section (on winter climbing) it says that 50s are better because they weigh less. Everyone can be a bit rude to newbies asking questions here - suggesting "why don't you just read up on it?" but when a magazine manages to contradict its own advice in the space of about 20 pages - you can see why they resort to asking random strangers of questionable knowledge on the interweb.

Also they still don't seem to have learned how to use spell- check.

Having said that the "Climbing" website is a bit of a disaster of web design, isn't it? But the Macleod article seemed a good introduction to Dave's career for those who haven't seen the movie etc.

In reply to TobyA: I have to say I found the E11 movie rather overlong. There was no suspense since I knew that he eventually got up the route, in fact I was really pretty bored by the whole thing. Personally I found the magazine article more interesting.

In reply to TobyA:

I don't think Tom Richardson is a patch on Andy K. His food review was excellent, but that last oneread descidedly "climber" like.
Did you like my letter?

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide: The spelling was an improvement on your average contribution here! I often wonder who writes to climbing mags now, but then again getting a pair of new shoes for 20 minutes of work seems like a well paid work. I often wonder whether the people who write the letters have never used a climbing website? Perhaps not - it seems an odd thing to do in this day and age, to write in to ask what HMS stands for. Google will get you the answer in miliseconds and you don't have to pay for the stamp.

In reply to TobyA: I'm writting a real article for them now.

Sure beats washing dishes.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:


That is surely the death knell for British climbing mags.

In reply to Tyler:

Hi,

I don't want to be boring and start quoting from an earlier post, but my 'accusation' was no more than a question - and a pretty mild mannered one at that. Would that all accusations in life were as gentle...

Glad to hear from Mick that Climbing is climber-owned and, one supposes, climber-writer run.

We seem to be in agreement regarding the competence of the article. And, compared to the mediocrity of so many UK offerings, it shines. But, I'm afraid, I want more. And, because I work as a writer, I know full well that more is possible - if you want it enough.

Mick

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Go to it Tom!

Mick

In reply to Mick Ward:

I agree. Go to it Tom. Ignore Tyler, he's become very bitter after you bettered him in a previous debate.

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide:

Is that Gill Kent snapping up one of our best contributors?

I thought she never looked at the internet. I know Neil Pearsons does, he's here everyday!

Nice one Tom. Give it your best shot.

Mick

In reply to Glyn Jones:

So you see the bit

'In the E11 film, Claire says of this period, “You can tell [Dave’s] not really talking to you. He’s going through moves in his head, and he’s just kind of glazing over. Every waking moment, almost every sleeping moment. ... It takes over my life, as well as his.”'

And wonder why its just like what they said in the film?

Kind of missing the point of the article really.

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

Well... the choice betwen pay and no pay is a no Brainer? Have you considered paying contributers Mick? You might get a better standard of article. UKC must have far lower overheads than CLIMB.

Will sendme your contribution please? Can you can also send me yours and Alan's review so i can see how they'll fit into the main article?

In reply to Tyler: So is there a photo of this ben nevis project?

In reply to Ackbar:

Dave showed a photo of it at his recent lectures. To be fair, I don't think the photo did justice to the difficulty of the proposed route, not when you hear about the difficulties!

In reply to gingerkate:

That's the funniest thing I've read all week!

very good!

In reply to Ackbar:

There is a bit about it on the Hot Aches Committed Video