UKC

Good mixed conditions on the Ben Yesterday. Probably a bit warm and wet today. Climbed Sioux Wall with Tim Blakemore. See an account and pictures at http://www.northernmountainsport.co.uk/ and http://www.mixedmaster.blogspot.com/

In reply to Steve Ashworth:

Amazing photos. What grade is it?

And incidentally-- just for interest-- what's that Friend doing hanging off the runner? Had it fallen out, or had you just not disconnected it when you placed the gear?

In reply to Steve Ashworth:

Well done, conditions looked ideal from the pics. Quite jealous of anybody who got out yesterday.

Davie

In reply to Steve Ashworth: Fantastic photos for showing the character of the route. Excellent job.

In reply to Steve Ashworth: Great photos, thanks.

In reply to Steve Ashworth:

Looks perfect for hard mixed, what did you think of Darth Vader when you did it?.

In reply to Steve Ashworth:

Good effort, and nice photos too.

In reply to Tim Chappell: Presumably it was to weight the sling down and stop it lifting off due to rope movement.

In reply to Steve Ashworth:

I thought the first winter ascent was Ian Parnell and Oliver Metherell?

You give the impression it was Andy Turner and Doug Hodgson... was theirs the first summer ascent?

In reply to jobertalot:
Hi

Ian and Ollie attempted the summer line and honestly recorded the fact that they ran out of time and traversed off (still tricky). It was a fine acheivement but the first free winter ascent of 'Sioux Wall'goes to Andy Turner who climbed the route in its entirety.

This was reported by Simon Richardson in the SMC Journal.

I think (but am not sure which version) that the route was repeated by an American and Slovenian on the international meet.

Tim

In reply to tim blakemore:

Ahh!

Thanks for that

In reply to Steve Ashworth:


Not completely: http://icefactor.blogspot.com/

A good choice by Kenny and the boys; good to see there are early season routes that mere mortals can aspire to....

In reply to Jamie B.:
Ahh, looks good, we opted for the Northern Corries and it was wild, too! Say hello to kenny from me.

In reply to tim blakemore:
Indeed it was- Freddie Wilkinson and the appropriately named Rok Zalokar did it on the meet last year- a great day up there with amazing neve conditions on the steepest lines

http://www.thebmc.co.uk/News.aspx?id=1328

In reply to Jamie B.:
Hi Jamie,
I was going to go to the Ben (gargoyle wall or 1/2 other options in mind), when one of my pals came up with a crazy idea... which I liked very much.
So goes Red Guard on Carn Etchachan into my log.
It was a mini adventure, with not so easy walk in (crusty snow, drifts+ nav), the climb seem to have been in same conditions as the more accessible corries (some axe placements were working due to good footwork more than anything!).
We topped out just before 5 and had to nav out in proper foggy night... it was fun.
It is a bit of a long day from glasgow, but my pal's was even worse... from Saltcoats (and I thought I was dedicated!!)

In reply to riquet:
well done getting down to the Avon Basin, must have been quite a day. WHat grade is Red Guard in Winter?
anyone else in the area?

In reply to riquet:

Bed for 1.30am Monday, got up at 4.30am, started work 5am, finished 12.00pm and now making our diner (boys & me), Lynda won't be home till probably after 7pm.

A womans work is never done!!!!!!

Stuart

In reply to Stuart the postie:
Guru-esque performance!!!!

In reply to jazzyjackson:
RG gets VI,6 (sometimes you see it at tech 7).
Not remotely hard but confindence required, chimney is run out and deserves to be graded in mars bars. Crux is short but steep, big moves with mostly bomber hooks.
As far as I know, we were the only climbers in the basin.But first in and last out so someone could have climbed more accessible crags ( the lum or stac faradh may well have been climbable).

Seeing time slipping by my partner saved a lot of time by moving together on second tier for some 80m on not so easy ground (IVish) and we still only topped out before dark. It is a longish route.

In reply to Steve Ashworth:
Nice work, we were the team who bimbled up Ledge route on friday. What a day for it and my mates first winter route finished off by descending the CMD. Had a strange feeling you'd be heading towards Sioux Wall!

NMM

In reply to Northern Mountain Monkey:

Out of interest what were the conditions on ledge route like?

In reply to CurlyStevo:
Fairly good. We had to put crampons on to cross the ledge immediately above the curtain as it was covered in ice. The little gully slanting back left had a nice 10m ish section of II ice. Snow line was about 900m and turf was pretty well frozen up to about 1100m above which it was buried under powder.

NMM

In reply to Northern Mountain Monkey:

I wasn't going to reply here but seem as news of Steve and Tim's fine repeat is getting world wide exposure then Ive posted this on the Alpinist.com website

"Rewriting history

Wasn't going to comment when this story was first reported on British web sites. But considering that this now getting "cut and pasted" straight into Alpinist.com then its worth putting the record straight.

Tim and Steve's fine repeat was surely the fourth. Olly and I on the first ascent didn't "traverse off". It was dissapointing of Tim to suggest that as he knows it's not actually possible to traverse off - you're in the middle of a hard steep wall with no ledges. We climbed an alternative straight up final pitch, parallel to the summer rock line. It went at VII 7 for that pitch very much in keeping with the standard of the rest of the route.

Andy and Duncan made the second ascent, being the first to climb that final pitch of the summer line. Having repeated most of that pitch on Curly's wall its about the same standard as our finish, but is a more direct line and makes a better route.

A route often evolves following repeats and refinements of the line, as has happened with Sioux Wall but theres no need to write early pioneers out of the history as Tim seems to be trying to do.

For readers wondering if this sounds like alot of fuss about a variation on some tiny mountain on the other side of the world. It is! but we are talking about the Ben here which beats most mountains eight times its size any day."

In reply to Ian Parnell: I did think the initial write up was innacurate, but i didnt comment due to my own lack of knowledge of your ascent, if folk want to publicise their achievements to the whole world they should have at least checked they had their facts right

Im amazed this is even in aplinist.com, not a bad thing though, good to see scottish winter still has a deserved international reputation despite the best efforts of the stevie hastons and scott muirs of this world to knock it.

well done on the prore direct ascent, sounds like your going well allready

In reply to Erik B:
Thanks Erik, that direct start makes a brilliant route even better. looks like your ice factor boys were having fun too on Fall Out, good effort of them on Babylon too, that's another fine route. Feels like a reasonable start to the winter just got to hope December thaws don't do too much damage.

In reply to Ian Parnell:

Your line on the Ben sounds to be equally as impressive to Andy and Duncans.
I would say though that to claim the first winter ascent of a summer line then surely you should climb the route throughout doing all the pitches in the guidebook. Have you not climbed Siuox wall with an alternative finish where as Andy and Duncan climbed the first full winter ascent of Siuox wall.

In reply to Dan Goodwin: Youre right of course we've climbed Sioux Wall with an alternative finish, and Andy and duncan have done the first full winter ascent of the summer line. I'm not disputing that. Remember we were doing the first ascent so we made our interpretation of the line and others have improved it, also remember that its a 4 or 5 pitch line depending on how you climb it and so we are talking about the final pitch.

What got my back up was comments in the alpinist report such as "Oliver Metherell and Ian Parnell attempted the route in 2005 but traversed off, avoiding some of the difficulties up high;" and "Although Metherell and Parnell are not credited with an ascent,.."

In reply to Ian Parnell:

To give another example Unicorn in Glen Coe was first climbed in winter by Andy Nisbet and Colin Maclean, a direct finish was added by Colin Smith but no-one has suggested that Nisbet's version doesn't count.

In reply to Dan Goodwin:
surely in many respects the exact summer line is irrelevant in winter unless it also makes the best winter line?

In reply to Ian Parnell:

That would get your back up and rightly so as you obviously did'nt traverse of but climbed a slightly different line to finish. I just think that its unfair to say that Andy climbed the second ascent when he was the first to climb the full line of the summer route.

In reply to Ian Parnell:
Heyho,
I can see why you'd be a wee bit peeved by the description, it does make it sound like you backed off. I don't know the route so can't comment on it in particular, but theres pleanty of other routes that do follow the "approximate" line of the summer route, and aren't disqualified or written out as failed attempts on the direct. Especially since theres always a lot of possible variation in winter, dept on conditions on the day (from my experience on much easier routes i'd add!).
I'd hope just a careless throwaway line thats been picked up on, or a mis-understanding of what you climbed though.

In reply to Ian Parnell:

I am defo not saying that yours does not count and it should be counted, in respect to Curly Stevo surley the summer line is totally relevent when claiming the first winter ascent of a summer line otherwise your climbing a new route.

In reply to Dan Goodwin:
Lots of winter routes listed under the same description/name as the summer route follow a different line, that's pretty much normal right?

In reply to Erik B:

I don’t think Tim was in any way trying to detract anything from the achievements of Ian and Olly on their ascent of Sioux Wall, and if it appears this way on Alpinist, then something has been lost in their reporting, it was a great achievement that opened our eyes to the potential on this part of the crag. The last thing he would have intended was to appear inaccurate. The SMC journal 2006 clearly credits the first ascent of Sioux wall in its entirety to Andy and Duncan. This was done shortly after Ian’s ascent but at the time received none of the media coverage of the first ascent. I wouldn’t want to “write the early pioneers of this line out of history” and it is for this reason that I highlight the ascent by Andy and Duncan.

I appreciate that winter ascents of summer lines don’t have to follow the summer lines religiously and that variants to summer lines may actually give better climbing however in this case Sioux wall is a very strong natural line, the belay where Ian moved right is half way up a corner system. The continuation pitch up the corner gives a very hard sequence before joining the ground climbed by Curlys arête and would warrant another pitch of VIII 8, I’m pretty sure that Ian (who I know has a very good eye for a line) would, had he known his chosen line was going to be equally as hard, have carried on up the natural summer line of Sioux Wall.

Alpinist wanted to report our ascent to draw attention to the fact that they have a feature article on Ben Nevis in Alpinist 22.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Yes there are although when talking about who has or hasnt climbed the first ascent of a summer line it would be the person who stuck closest to the guidbook description ! Thats not to discredit any variations or different lines taken as i would seem that both finish's seem to be at the same level!

In reply to Steve Ashworth: Cheers Steve. I think I just got wound up by a few lines in the Alpinist piece and initial reports I read. Anyway congrats to you and Tim on the climb. What a great piece of the Ben it is around there. And as you know Sioux Wall will just be a warm up soon for the lines still to go there.

In reply to Ian Parnell:

Well done on the direct on Prore; where exactly does it go and what did you give it?

In reply to Jamie B.: Jamie B and Erik B have I got confused who works at Ice factor?

Anyway Prore direct not much new climbing - 15ft (through the roofs 6-8ft right of Savage slit directly beneath the arete) but very steep and exciting and a nice contrast with the balancy stuff above. I'd give it top end VII 8, with the original as mid VII 7.

In reply to Ian Parnell:

I don't think you'd get Erik working at the Ice Factor somehow; his opinions on instructors are legendary!

The Ice Factor guys you saw were Kenny (full-time) and Campbell (part-time). We've got quite a good wee cadre of active winter climbers on staff now, although nobody else quite at KG's current lead standard!

In reply to Jamie B.: geeza joab big man (5 hunner a day), i dont even mind climbing dorsal arete AGAIN

In reply to Erik B: Wrong industry for that wage mate but I'll take you on for a 5 hunner a month! I was pleased to cut my no. of ascents of Dorsal down to only 2 last year
Al