UKC

does anyone have any idea what has happened to the auction goods?

i was watching several items but they all seem to have dissappeared from ebay!

cheers

dom

In reply to djw:

They're getting pulled for non-compliance with ebay's terms and conditions.

Exactly what the violation is I've no idea, but of the four items I initially put a bid in for they've all now been pulled.

Pretty poor show really on behalf of the company that now owns them.

In reply to slacky:

thanks for that. it looks like all items have been pulled. would be interesting to know the reason for the withdraw.

although i'm not an experienced ebayer i found it odd that a number of items had been bidded up quite a lot considering the 3 or 4 days left to bid!

In reply to djw: Have seen a fair few people bidding to almost RRP near the start of bids on ebay (for what reason I couldn't tell you).

I would the say the most likely reason would be that they should have been setup as a shop, rather than a standard ebay user. Similar to the premium post setup on here. Again though, that's just speculation.

In reply to fish08:

Because they are willing to pay nearly RRP? In theory there is nothing to be gained by putting in incremental bids yourself, rather than your true maximum bid and letting ebay get on with the proxy bidding. If lots of poeple are interested in the item then the end price will be the same, its just that it will take 1 day instead of 10 to reach it...

In reply to djw:

I too was a bidder on an auction item. I don't think QNM would be so underhanded to artificially inflate the bid price. It's probably a matter of having too many links to pages on the PF site in each item.

In reply to neilco:

Does anyone have a number for them, that works?

In reply to djw: gutted, i was looking forward to getting another pair of ridiculously cheap winter boots. i hoped it was just my computer being stupid but alas no! emx

In reply to johnSD: Bit of a dodgy theory. Of course there are possible gains. Other people may not be willing to go to RRP and therefore you are only bidding with yourself at the early stages.

In reply to emily ward: Damn, there were three items that i wanted.

In reply to Donald M:

You could try QNM directly:

http://www.quba.co.uk/contact.aspx

In reply to Donald M:

http://www.planetfear.com/footer.asp?f=Contact+Us

In reply to fish08:

No, it's the whole point of proxy bidding. If I have a maximum bid of RRP (which will show up as the artificially low start price) and someone else bids max 0.5*RRP then I will win at ~0.51*RRP

If I bid 0.3*RRP and someone else bids 0.5*RRP then they will win at 0.31RRP - unless I rebid at a higher max bid. Whether I max bid at 0.51*RRP or 0.99*RRP makes no difference to the outcome - which is that I will win at 0.51*RRP unless they change their bid as well.

The whole point of ebay is that every interested party places one hidden maximum bid, and then the result is calculated by the lowest possible bid that beats all others. I've lost count of the number of times I've lost items because "I'll just put this on just now, and then I'll up it towarsd the end" - and then don't get a chance to go back at the end...

In reply to Boris_73:
I was winning two >

In reply to johnSD: Yep, that's how an auction works. I would argue that even if you bid close to RRP near the start, you will probably still lose the bid (if you are not around near the end). In the case where you won't get a chance to bid near the end I would recommend something like gixen. Bit of a cheat, but I'm sure it's morally acceptable to use it *sometimes*.

In reply to fish08:

right, but if I'm right then the only way you can "lose" it due to bidding early is if someone bids more than you were willing to pay - so you'd lose anyway, as long as your maximum bid really is your maximum, and you don't get sucked into a "just 50p more" vortex...

But maybe I'm too much of an idealist. There is no logical reason why ebay sniping should work, but it seems to...

In reply to johnSD: Ah, but it all depends on when other bidders want to get involved in the "just 50p more" game. If your lucky, and others are biding their time, the starting point will be much lower and time becomes more of a factor. Then, one way or another, you can snipe that item for much less than you would have originally paid. Of course the "snipe" is a max price bid as well, it's just a way of hiding your hand for as long as possible.

It's still a win some / lose some strategy, but at least you have some chance of saving money.

Personally, I see an initial price hike as counter productive to any auction, but I suppose it's all down to preference. At least the sellers get a good deal in your proposed strategy

In reply to fish08:

See that still doesn't make any sense to me. The lowest price you can get the item for is slightly more than anyone else is willing to pay. Whether you bid £1 or £100 more than then shouldn't matter...

Maybe the sniping thing only works when other people don't use proper max bids and forget/run out of time to put in what they were genuinely willing to pay. But in that case you'd think that all it would take would be one loss due to sniping to make people realise that they might as well just do it properly...

But then I remember the days when Ebay was genuinely about people selling their own stuff for potentially bargain prices, and not simply a commercial powerhouse that is increasingly a sellers' rather than buyers' market... Thank god for Buy It Now!...

In reply to johnSD: It's not about what someone is willing to pay, it is about what they bid. Someone may be willing to pay £50 for an item, but they would prefer to pay £30 and so will put £30 down as their initial maximum bid. Then when the time is almost gone (and they think all is well in the world) someone jumps in with £32 and they don't have time to readjust.

Obviously if everyone played as you do this strategy would not work, but as people want to save money they will rarely put a total max on the table straight away.

In reply to fish08:


Right - that confirms it then. sniping is a way to try and beat stupid people that don't understand the point of proxy bidding...

In reply to johnSD: Basically if you brought across your strategy to poker you would start the game by telling everyone you have a straight, and just wait for someone to beat you. This will have the advantage of knowing if you are the winner at the early stages, but you lose any chance of further gain.

In reply to fish08:

No, it's not like that at all. Because at no point do people know what my maximum bid is, unless they bid more than it. In poker it would be like me drawing a hand and thinking "I can afford to go bid X", and then simply call every raise until either everyone else folds, or the bid goes higher than I'm willing to bid.

The problem with a poker analogy is you don't have any advantage over the other bidders, except what you are willing to bid - there are no cards, and no "all in"

In reply to djw:

Any bidding earlier than is absolutely necessary will likely inflate the selling price. For buyers the best approach is to bid as late as possible. Proxy bidding or otherwise. The only advantage of proxy bidding as I see it is for people with less time and more money.

In reply to johnSD: The obvious advantage is timing. All it takes in your scenario is for someone else (over the course of a possible 10 days) to test your bid, and therefore work out your bid through a few "50p more" hits and then (possibly wait) to outbid it. Going back to the poker analogy, this would effectively call your bluff.

If you refrain from putting that bid forward until the latter stages they will lose the ability to test it, yet it still serves exactly the same purpose as before. Buy It Now type users only end up driving up the price for everyone else!

In reply to fish08:

No, because even if they did this the only way they would win is by bidding more than I was willing to pay - I lose nothing (because I couldn't have won), and they end up paying the market price - i.e. slightly more than anyone else would pay - for the item. Whether you count that as they lose, by paying the market price rather than an artificially low price because the time ran out for someone else to make their bid, is a matter of opinion.


I don't think so. Most auctions on ebay, whether sniped or properly bid on or whatever, end up basically paying the market price for an item. The idea that there are bargains to be had was consigned to history years ago when it became a mainstream commercial success - it is definitely a big-time sellers market rather than individual sellers or buyers. Buy it now just means that you don't have to wait 10 days to pay the same price, give or take a few pennies...

In reply to johnSD: All my ebay wins have been at roughly 60-70% less than RRP. Obviously I avoid items where people such as yourself are lurking, so your choice of strategy has some advantages if not actually saving any money.

In reply to fish08:

Two questions (I'm genuinely interested in being educated here):

1. What is the market value of the items you buy? RRP is not a stong indicator of this - what is the % of average ebay price that you end up paying (presuming you are not buying one-of-a-kind items)?

2. How do you tell if someone has made a high bid to start and so decide to avoid that auction?

p.s. I'm not saying bid at RRP - I'm saying bid at a projected market value, and bid what you are willing to pay.

Interesting discussion on sniping... From my experience, sniping is not about "winning" auctions per se. It's about winning auctions without having to pay more than necessary.

If you put in a high bid for an item in the early stages there is the opportunity for another buyer to "test" your bid in small increments up to it's maximum. It may be that, as a result of several such buyers, you end up paying close to your maximum bid for the item. If you do not reveal your maximum bid until the very end of an auction there is no such opportunity and other buyers cannot make a retaliatory bid.

It's still possible that someone may make a higher bid than yourself, through proxy or otherwise, but you're more likely to get the item for a low price. It's very true that some items change hands on ebay for inflated prices when compared to RRP and online stores. IMHO this is because some buyers get into the mentality of wanting to win the auction (as opposed to just buying the product for a good price). Through sniping, it's possible to stay out of this competition and thereby maximise the difference between the selling price and your maximum bid.

J

In reply to orge:

But the whole point of proxy bidding is to win an auction without paying more than necessary.

I'd be interested to know what a) the average sniped price vs. average conventionally played price is for comparable items, and b) the win/lose ratio of sniping in auctions. Does it actually make any difference, or is just a percieved advantage due to an adrenaline rush?

In reply to fish08:

It's not a dodgy theory at all. It's by far the simplest way of doing the job, whjy waste time faffing about with loads of bids when you can just name the price you're willing to pay?

You only pay one bid increment above the highest bid by another user so you never biud againest yourself and don't inflate the price unless someone else bids as well.

In reply to johnSD:

1. Market value could be a bit of a factor alright. I do tend to target things that are possibly slightly outside of the mass market. Examples being a few lowe alpine items (rucksack, clothes), a mammut down jacket that I got for next to nothing, bivvy bag, mountain equipment sleeping bag etc. They are not "unwanteds" by any means, but still to grab a bargain you have to look out for things that are quite specialised without being over publicised (you can forget brands such as Rab, mountain equipment by and large, patagonia etc). Bidding late is still an advantage (in my mind) on those items that have less market clout as it serves to detract attention, and it will attract like minded bidders (in for a bargain therefore are likely to bid low and wait for testing).

2. Quite a lot of people (once a bid is opened) will start testing the waters and you will see the price increase quite quickly in the first few days. If an item hits about 50% of what you are willing to pay with 3 days to go you can be fairly sure that it's not going to be worth getting at the end. Stick it in your watch items in case the bidding dries up of course.

In my experience you will lose more than you will win (simply because the strategy is all about grabbing something at a very low price), but you will get the few bargains that are still there to be had.

In reply to timjones: Yep, of course that's simple, but it won't save you any money.

In reply to johnSD:

I would also disagree with your assertion that there are no bargains to be had on ebay, due to it's commercialisation. Firstly, this depends on the desirability of the items in question and the quality of the advertisement/seller. Low feedback scores and no paypal option, in particular, can lower the selling price. Clearly, this is because there is a perceived risk, but if the seller lives near yourself why not do a doorstep deal?

You also notice that incorrectly categorised/named auctions attract less attention and thereby are more likely to sell for a low price. The art is to have a keen idea for the market value and to bide your time for the right auction - sniping at those you think are promising. If you're patient/lucky, you will get a good price. It may not save you a fortune but there will be a saving.

BIN is still a good option as well. I've picked up some fantastic lens deals from the HK importers. You do occasionally get somebody putting a low BIN for a quick sale - the key being to get in there first.

J

In reply to fish08:

From a sellers perspective this is why ebay should move over to a system whereby an auction only closes 10 minutes after the final bid.

From a biuyers perspective we're not all sad gits willing to spend ages hunched over our keyboards in the forlorn hope of saving a few pennies

In reply to fish08:

It saves you loads of money as long as you name the right price in the first place and pass onto the next lot if you don't win.

In reply to orge:


Only if you're buying the sort of useless tat that no sensible person could possibly want

In reply to fish08:

In which case do you ever think "damn, I would have paid more than that - I wish I'd just bid a bit higher and then I might have won it"?

Right, better sign off this one, but thanks for trying to explain it. Years ago when I was buying a lot of camera equipment I used to bid late like you describe and test the waters (even bid high and then retracted bids to find out what the others were up to), and sometimes it appeared to work but usually it didn't make a difference, so I eventually gave up and went back to basic ebay bidding. Basically I realised that the chances of success in almost any auction depend solely on what you are willing to bid/pay and what everyone else is willing to bid/pay, and that the laws of supply and demand are king.

In reply to johnSD:

No adrenaline rush for me, my computer does all the work (jbidwatcher.com). You can even setup sniped bids on a number of items and it stops bidding once it wins.

By placing a high proxy bid there is always the chance you will influence the final price to be higher. You're give a yardstick for speculative bidders to bet against. Why give them that information/opportunity? BIdding activity, encourages more activity which will only increase the final sale price. This is not in your interests, if you're after a deal.

J

In reply to timjones: Actually looking back on your first post you will almost certainly enter the "just 50p more" scenario that we discussed earlier. That is another thing that is best to avoid.

johnSD is not proposing one bid increments but an initial max bid.

In reply to timjones:

Probably guilty of that! At least I get it at a good price though!!

J

In reply to johnSD: Not really, because I think you will always delude yourself that something is worth more than it is, and your initial instincts are best followed (if only implimented at a very late stage).

No worries, sorry to keep dragging you back I will say though that testing the waters is a bad idea as well as it also serves to inflate the price. Others will almost certainly test it for you.

In reply to orge: Cheat! Be a man and do your sniping manually (although will admit to using gixen now and again).

In reply to fish08:

Not if you test the waters and then retract your bid (or have a dummy profile to do this with) - you leave only a ripple....

In reply to johnSD: That would just be even more immoral than using a sniping service (but I like your thinking).

In reply to fish08:

Just like you should always bid e.g. 20.01 - that way you beat a £20 bet

In reply to johnSD:
Hey, don't give all the tricks away!!

In reply to fish08:

I've got climbing to do...

J

In reply to fish08:


Thats exactly what I'm proposing, I enter my maximum price and let ebay do the bidding for me each time someone else bids my bid is automatically increased one increment above theirs until mu maximum bid is exceeded. All I do is carry on with life until I get an email to say I've won or lost the item.

I find it intriguing that you are so obsessed with the "just 50p more" scenario. Wherever you buy at auction you have to know your price and stop bidding!

In reply to timjones: Well, your only inflating the price for yourself, but that's not a big deal for some people. As you say, it's a more simple approach.

In reply to fish08:

But it doesn't inflate the price at all. The approach that you use is basically a gamble (where an auction isn't supposed to be gamble, and isn't naturally suited to games of chance). You are relying on the fluke conditions that everyone else will bid late as well, and that time will run out before everyone has a chance to bid what they are willing to pay. The problem is that as soon as someone bids sensibly your strategy is dead. It might be worth it for the occassional success, but you are relying pure and simple on the poor judgement of others, and the small chance that they have this poor judgement. What's the point of 7 or 10 day auctions if everybody leaves it till the last 5 mins and then misses out because they run out of time...

In reply to johnSD: The point of 7 to 10 day auctions is to get the best possible price for the seller. People can't help but get involved in a bidding war and therefore inflate the price. You seem to think auctions have a precise method, but of course they do not.

I don't rely on everyone else bidding late as well, I rely on people not taking into account late bidders, and those who don't want to inflate the price until it is absolutely necessary. That increases your chances quite a bit. Obviously if everyone left it until the last few minutes on every bid it would condense the same price inflation, but everyone is not available over those last few minutes and that's the point!

All I'm talking about is the way of maximising your chance of getting a good price. You are talking about maximising your chance of actually getting the item. Two different outcomes. Two different approaches.

In reply to fish08:

You really don't get it do you! We both want an item I bid £100 for it on day 1 and you try to snipe it in the last few days. If you bid more then £100 you get it if you bid less I get it for your bid plus a penny or two. Bidding inflates the price, the way that you bid is irrelevant. Two bidders raise the price a single bidder can name the price.

In reply to djw: The following email says a little bit more;

Dear Glyn Jones

Unfortunately the "unbelievable planetFear eBay sale" has had to be postponed until January.

At this stage it seems that eBay have deleted all 500 odd of our listings in error and their customer service department is being very slow at getting back to us and is unsure whether they can re-load our listings.

We don't want to miss the last Christmas posting date so we'll start the whole sale again at the beginning of January.

We are very sorry if you have been bidding or watching any of the items in the sale but don't worry they'll all be available again in January.