UKC

"I believe that any climber, who wishes to gain an edge, should look into the martial arts of China. In March this year I spent some time at the Hai Deng Temple, and the feats that the Masters are capable of are truly impressive."

writes Dennis Gray about the Dao here: http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=726

In reply to Mick Ryan - Editor - UKC: Oh dear, oh dear.

There doesn't seem to be much in the way of content in that article; it doesn't even say why climbers should look to martial arts.

I did read something, I'm not sure where, that mentioned the similarities between learning movements in martial arts and climbing, where moves had to be practiced hundreds of times before they could be relied upon under stressful conditions.

Its a shame that people in the west have no grasp of the subtle, and even a contempt for it in general. Its as if the prevalent religion is boredom. They all think that life is just a big bang and worship people like Isac newton and einstein, not realising at all that many of the scientists were themselves awed by the mystery of the universe.

They also worhip jesus, believing that he was some kind of cosmic policeman come to exert the authority of god. How ridiculous, every great thing of beauty is rendered into something ugly by the insane projections of disturbed and thoroughly enslaved minds.

In reply to Nazarene:

wow, who told you to think that!

In reply to Nazarene:

You're right - what nonsense. Better get into the following then:

"Note that Qi is seen as the vital life force of living things, circulating in the body through a network of channels or meridians."

In reply to pishmishy: Yes, I think the feats the masters at the Hai Deng Temple are capable of is because they practice lots, not because of some mysterious Qi force.

In reply to Dennis Gray:

OK then Dennis, how do we use it then exactly? How does it stop me getting pumped, and how does it helped me dyno further? To get better at these, might I simply practise each discipline?

There's still a bottom line in (external) martial arts (or did we learn nothing from Bruce Lee?) that you test your abilities and there's always been this disagreement betwene Chinese and Japanese martial arts over Qi, before someone lumps all the Eastern `mysticisms' together. A particular Tai Chi (sp?) master on Mind Body and Kick Ass moves (together with Wikipedia and Kung Fu films the sources of all my information on this) could make himself `Light' using soft Qi, (sounds great for lcimbing,you catch my drift) and redirecting forces to make yourself `heavy' or immovable to your opponent is also a part of Tai Chi and other
martial arts, in particular someJapanese ones which use Ki, which can be explained with less religious mumbo jumbo (albeit still in a way that is hard to understand in terms of `Western' science). Also not all Chinese people buy all this Qi shit, at least not the one I live with, but then like me he is a mathematician.

I'm not saying there is or there isn't anything to this. But at some point there's an onus on the protaganist (you DG) to explain just WTF they're on about more clearly, which in the north where I come from is called `Calling Bullshit'.

Am I about to dedicate my life to firstly mastering a martial art and secondly working out how it applies to climbing, when I'm a coward and I already don't have enough time and weather to climb all the routes I want to do let alone train for them? I think you can guess. But if you work this out Dennis, I'm there. Might I ask how it's affected your climbing?

In reply to Paz:

"I believe that any climber, who wishes to gain an edge, should look into the martial arts of China"

Look into it yourself

In reply to Nazarene:


OH MY GOD ITS JACKIE CHAN!!!! Sorry ive been watching too much family guy....

In reply to CarolineB122:

Ooh check you out being all cool and mystic. BS.

In reply to Mick Ryan - Editor - UKC:

I am certain that climbers frequenting the Dolerites (crags such as Auchinstarry, Neilston and Rosyth in particular) would benefit greatly from martial arts training.

Davie

In reply to Mick Ryan - Editor - UKC:

I have been training Goju Ryu which has it's roots in the white crane/tiger styles of Fuchow, for 16 years, and I can't see what edge I can use. There are far better climbers than me who don't do martial arts.

In reply to Paul748: Clearly your Qi is weak.

In reply to nastyned:
You sound like the wife!!!

In reply to Paz:

"But at some point there's an onus on the protaganist (you DG) to explain just WTF they're on about more clearly, which in the north where I come from is called `Calling Bullshit'."

Jesus, relax. You sound like a narky teacher. Had a few drinks?

In reply to jaysus:

no. You should hear me then.

In reply to Paz:

'like me he is a mathematician'

There lies the answer. Endless borders.

In reply to jaysus:

I love it when people use a persons own self-deprecating comments against them and congratulate themselves on having done something very clever.

In reply to Mick Ryan - Editor - UKC: Greetings from Xinjiang.
I am surprised at some of the comment to my article. I am not proselytising just suggesting it may be worth investigating how such as the martial arts masters attain such proficiency?
I will pose a question, how does acupuncture work? For it surely does and it is now widely used even in NHS hospitals(my niece a specialist in diabetic medicine, is a qualified acupunctrist and uses this on the patients she thinks will benefit from its application).
I was at the Shaolin Temple(Henan,PRC) last week and whilst the guys there are putting on a show, they are still truly impressive in the feats they are capable of.
I would think Kung Fu training would improve plyometric strength(good for dynos),flexibility,stamina and an ability to focus,Tai Chi good for improving flexibility and relaxation techniqes, and Qi Gong good for focusing and mind trainng.
Acupuncture would be of use in treating ;finger,elbow,shoulder and ankle injuries etc, and acupressure good (just like massage) for fatigued limbs and bodies.
Take it or leave it...... if your interested I am sure you will find aspects of these martial arts that you could use to improve your own well being!

How does acupuncture work? What is that susposed to mean? Do you mean that if science can not come up with an explanation, that means by default it must has some sort of supernatural explanation?????? Why are you so impatient? Can't you except the fact that maybe the answer to that will not be known in your life time? Why do you feel the need to fill the void with any old explanation rather than excepting that there are somethings that for now we don't understand?

In reply to Ackbar:
If that is a response to the question that Dennis posed in his post you have gone right off the rails. All he is saying is that we do not have a 'western' scientific answer (leaving it open that there are other 'sciences' which may well have an explanation) but clearly suggests it works - but his later suggesting that we may actually use acupuncture surely indicates that he has abelief in its validity as a therapy.

In reply to nastyned:

It scores strong on the Scrabble board though!

Dennis Gray looks like Anthony Hopkins in that picture.

In reply to Chris F:
If that's really Dennis in 2005 I want the address of his make-up artist!

(thought it was more like Anthony Newley myself!)

In reply to Dennis Gray:


You might find this article interesting: http://www.badscience.net/?p=542

I'm not saying that acupuncture is not a beneficial therapy. I've had it myself and it did seem to help improve the condition I was suffering from. Just because something is effective, though, it doesn't mean that the ancient/mystical/devoted-years-of-study-and-practice-to theory of how it works must therefore be correct.

In reply to Martin W: I Agree.

In reply to Dennis Gray:

Thanks for your reply.

Like your man's just said they're looking into accupuncture, and have done great stuff with MRI scans while patients under go it. You can explain anything, why the Calculus of variations works, why objects fly about in parabolic arcs in vaccuo, why the planets have elliptical orbits, by saying it's the work of God or down to your strong Qi. But these explanations pose more questions than they answer and so should be discarded under Occam's razor (the search for the siplest solution). But like Chris says, Qi scores more than twice what God does in scrabble.

You're right, some of what they do is impressive (if you ignore the trickesters). I think Martial Arts training could indeed be helpful, but am not convinced it would be any more so than any other training. Striking sports strike me as a good way to train antagonist muscles to correct your messed up climbing body, but I'd still wonder if MAs're any better for what we want than regular climbing training, and if it's worth opening yourself up to a whole new world of potential injuries for, if gaining an edge in climbing is simply your primary goal.

Anyway, I'm going to go and go and see what Tai Chi's about tonight because it's free and it's night and is wet.

In reply to mesen:

Computer ballsup, missed it.