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Well done Pat Littlejohn for getting an OBE for services to mountaineering. Nice to see someone worthy getting an honour!
In reply to Exeter Ash:
For those who aren't familiar with Pat here is a brief bio from his recent article at UKC
http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=672
Director of the International School of Mountaineering based in Leysin, Switzerland, Pat is a man of modest character and immense achievement. Pat is perhaps best known as creator of some of the UK's most memorable climbing voyages on superb and virgin cliffs lurking in remote and beautiful environments. Mention a Littlejohn route, and the word that most often comes to mind is 'commitment'. These are truly world-class adventure routes, often on remote sea-cliffs, usually climbed completely on sight into the unknown.
Pat has created new routes in many areas of the world, often at unconventional venues. Book Of Genesis in the Grand Canyon climbed in 1978 is an early example, the first serious free climbing in the Canyon. In 1991 he made the first free climb on the west face of Point John on Mt Kenya, an 11-pitch E5. In the Alps numerous first free ascents of climbs such as the South Face of the Fou. His 1995 new route on Taweche in Nepal with Mick Fowler was an epic affair with 43 technical pitches, desperate bivvies, little food and achieved over eight days in ultra-lightweight alpine style. With a sense of humour, too.
Pat's approach to climbing is clearly defined. He is totally convinced that the ground-up onsight approach is by far the most rewarding climbing experience to be had. He has also been prepared to speak out about the destruction of the adventure climbing ethic in the Alps. "If we allow the sport-climbing approach free rein in the mountains, we may wake up some day to realize that we've sold out our unique sport for... a synthetic substitute, offering virtual adventure where once we had the real thing."
Pat is also on the BMC's Executive Committee as a Vice President & Director
http://thebmc.co.uk/Pages.aspx?page=171
For those who aren't familiar with Pat here is a brief bio from his recent article at UKC
http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=672
Director of the International School of Mountaineering based in Leysin, Switzerland, Pat is a man of modest character and immense achievement. Pat is perhaps best known as creator of some of the UK's most memorable climbing voyages on superb and virgin cliffs lurking in remote and beautiful environments. Mention a Littlejohn route, and the word that most often comes to mind is 'commitment'. These are truly world-class adventure routes, often on remote sea-cliffs, usually climbed completely on sight into the unknown.
Pat has created new routes in many areas of the world, often at unconventional venues. Book Of Genesis in the Grand Canyon climbed in 1978 is an early example, the first serious free climbing in the Canyon. In 1991 he made the first free climb on the west face of Point John on Mt Kenya, an 11-pitch E5. In the Alps numerous first free ascents of climbs such as the South Face of the Fou. His 1995 new route on Taweche in Nepal with Mick Fowler was an epic affair with 43 technical pitches, desperate bivvies, little food and achieved over eight days in ultra-lightweight alpine style. With a sense of humour, too.
Pat's approach to climbing is clearly defined. He is totally convinced that the ground-up onsight approach is by far the most rewarding climbing experience to be had. He has also been prepared to speak out about the destruction of the adventure climbing ethic in the Alps. "If we allow the sport-climbing approach free rein in the mountains, we may wake up some day to realize that we've sold out our unique sport for... a synthetic substitute, offering virtual adventure where once we had the real thing."
Pat is also on the BMC's Executive Committee as a Vice President & Director
http://thebmc.co.uk/Pages.aspx?page=171
In reply to Exeter Ash: applauded, not only out there in the mountains but working on behalf of us all through the BMC
In reply to Mick Ryan - Editor - UKC:
Congratulations Pat, always knew that the clean hand gang was the right way to go for all but a few routes.
Now get busy Ordering the British Empire about.
Congratulations Pat, always knew that the clean hand gang was the right way to go for all but a few routes.
Now get busy Ordering the British Empire about.
In reply to Exeter Ash:
I'm always saddened when someone from what's supposed to be a free spirited anarchic sport accepts a pointless Victorian gong from a pointless Victorian parasite !
What a pity he didn't join the lengthy list of 'refuseniks'. Those who have told the state and it's figurehead to stick it up their arse!
I'm always saddened when someone from what's supposed to be a free spirited anarchic sport accepts a pointless Victorian gong from a pointless Victorian parasite !
What a pity he didn't join the lengthy list of 'refuseniks'. Those who have told the state and it's figurehead to stick it up their arse!
In reply to Exeter Ash:
That's excellent, good to see someone deserving getting one.
That's excellent, good to see someone deserving getting one.
In reply to Exeter Ash:
The more worthy list to be on !!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_who_have_declined_a_British_hon...
List of people who have declined a British honour - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The more worthy list to be on !!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_who_have_declined_a_British_hon...
List of people who have declined a British honour - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In reply to gingerkate:
How do you define "deserving"?
> (In reply to Exeter Ash)
> That's excellent, good to see someone deserving getting one.
> That's excellent, good to see someone deserving getting one.
How do you define "deserving"?
In reply to Jonno:
Can you and Fawksey take it to email please: either that or stop throwing insults and swear words and have a constructive discussion.
Can you and Fawksey take it to email please: either that or stop throwing insults and swear words and have a constructive discussion.
In reply to The Pylon King:
Well, I'm just contrasting him with people like a) Michael Parkinson. who may well be a good bloke, but gets paid so much he must have money coming out of his ears, and b) the head of child benefits, whose sole activity of note has been leading the team of people who lost 25 million addresses etc.
I think gongs should go to people who do good stuff ... that includes inspirational stuff... and who aren't sloshing with money.
Well, I'm just contrasting him with people like a) Michael Parkinson. who may well be a good bloke, but gets paid so much he must have money coming out of his ears, and b) the head of child benefits, whose sole activity of note has been leading the team of people who lost 25 million addresses etc.
I think gongs should go to people who do good stuff ... that includes inspirational stuff... and who aren't sloshing with money.
In reply to Mick Ryan - Editor - UKC: Morning Mick, I can see which side of the fence you are on
I object to you allowing Jonnos thread referring to sticking it up the arse of my Queen
I object to you allowing Jonnos thread referring to sticking it up the arse of my Queen
ps Actually I don't really mind them going to people with money, it's just it seems there's more point to it when they're an acknowledgment of good stuff done by someone who hasn't already had the reward of huge amounts of money.
In reply to Exeter Ash: Its pleasing to see that mine and the nations appreciation of the contribution to Mountaineering that has been made to Pat Littlejohn has been shown by the award of an OBE by the Queen
In reply to Mick Ryan - Editor - UKC:
How tiresomely twee ..deleting my reply to Tory Boy.
Whatever happened to good old RT healthy debate ?
How tiresomely twee ..deleting my reply to Tory Boy.
Whatever happened to good old RT healthy debate ?
In reply to Jonno:
Nothing. You are at liberty to have a healthy debate about the NY's honours on this thread - just quit calling each other names and swearing like a couple of kids in the schoolyard.
I'm out of here, the sun is shining.
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - Editor - UKC)
>
>
> Whatever happened to good old RT healthy debate ?
Nothing. You are at liberty to have a healthy debate about the NY's honours on this thread - just quit calling each other names and swearing like a couple of kids in the schoolyard.
I'm out of here, the sun is shining.
In reply to Jonno: I think we all know that Mick would be better off in Russia altering books to fit in with his own beliefs
How he could leave your misguided inflammatory statement but delete my reply I dont know
The Queen gave that gong on my and your behalf and those who refuse them insult me, like the scousers at Wembley booing the national anthem - thats my anthem they are booing
How he could leave your misguided inflammatory statement but delete my reply I dont know
The Queen gave that gong on my and your behalf and those who refuse them insult me, like the scousers at Wembley booing the national anthem - thats my anthem they are booing
In reply to Mick Ryan - Editor - UKC:
>
Same here...just a parting shot. I have absolute contempt for anyone who accepts a pathetic gong and anyone who thinks they are a good idea....so put that with your Vicar of Dibley videos and your Daily Mail gardening supplements !
>
>
> I'm out of here, the sun is shining.>>>
> I'm out of here, the sun is shining.>>>
Same here...just a parting shot. I have absolute contempt for anyone who accepts a pathetic gong and anyone who thinks they are a good idea....so put that with your Vicar of Dibley videos and your Daily Mail gardening supplements !
In reply to The Pylon King:
It is of course subjective when you define who is deserving or not. Personally I feel there are two kinds of categories, that those 'deserving' an award fall into. The 'charitable' kind- i.e those who do work to the benefit of to others such as voluntary work, humanitarian work etc. The other I would call the inspirational bunch- people like Ranulph Fiennes, Ellen MCarther (spelling?) some sportsmen etc. People who push the boundary's in their chosen field, people who for want of a better word 'inspire' others. While their pursuits may sometimes be for selfish gratification, their the kind of people that grab life by the scruff of the neck and think 'stuff it' I'm going to make something of myself, I'm going to dedicate myself to my dreams and being the best I can be- Hence they give 'inspiration' and motivation to others.
So arguably, Pat Littlejohn falls into both. He has given a lot of time to the sport of mountaineering for others. On the other side he may be an inspiration to climbers, through his success in the sport.
Furthermore, It may be nice to receive some kind of recognition. Doesn't everybody like a bit of 'ego massaging' once in a while? ; I think i'ts nice to be rewarded for some things. You don't do it for the recognition, but if it comes along why not! It's like when people say all bodybuilders are narcissistic, but is their anything wrong in wanting to have what they think is a good body? same applys with honours- In my opinion.
It is of course subjective when you define who is deserving or not. Personally I feel there are two kinds of categories, that those 'deserving' an award fall into. The 'charitable' kind- i.e those who do work to the benefit of to others such as voluntary work, humanitarian work etc. The other I would call the inspirational bunch- people like Ranulph Fiennes, Ellen MCarther (spelling?) some sportsmen etc. People who push the boundary's in their chosen field, people who for want of a better word 'inspire' others. While their pursuits may sometimes be for selfish gratification, their the kind of people that grab life by the scruff of the neck and think 'stuff it' I'm going to make something of myself, I'm going to dedicate myself to my dreams and being the best I can be- Hence they give 'inspiration' and motivation to others.
So arguably, Pat Littlejohn falls into both. He has given a lot of time to the sport of mountaineering for others. On the other side he may be an inspiration to climbers, through his success in the sport.
Furthermore, It may be nice to receive some kind of recognition. Doesn't everybody like a bit of 'ego massaging' once in a while? ; I think i'ts nice to be rewarded for some things. You don't do it for the recognition, but if it comes along why not! It's like when people say all bodybuilders are narcissistic, but is their anything wrong in wanting to have what they think is a good body? same applys with honours- In my opinion.
In reply to Fawksey:
I agree Fawksey, I think it's becoming popular to refuse honours- to be seen as unconventional perhaps? Although some have good reasons, such as a political or moral protest.
I agree Fawksey, I think it's becoming popular to refuse honours- to be seen as unconventional perhaps? Although some have good reasons, such as a political or moral protest.
In reply to Jonno:
You would perhaps be less saddened if you modified your suppositions.
> I'm always saddened when someone from what's supposed to be a free spirited anarchic sport
You would perhaps be less saddened if you modified your suppositions.
In reply to Exeter Ash: Yes, aslong as we are moving away from awarding honours to civil servants almost as part of their terms and conditions its a good way of rewarding peoples endeavour
Unfortunately some people will use it as an object and vehicle to voice their displeasure at some other deep rooted resentment
Unfortunately some people will use it as an object and vehicle to voice their displeasure at some other deep rooted resentment
In reply to Jonno:
You are just SOOooo jealous aren't you?!
> Same here...just a parting shot. I have absolute contempt for anyone who accepts a pathetic gong
You are just SOOooo jealous aren't you?!
In reply to jim robertson:
It's just the sheer presumption to speak for such a diverse spectrum of individuals. Life of Brian anyone?
Yes Jonno, we are all different
Yes Jonno, we are all individuals
Yes Jonno, we are all free
It's just the sheer presumption to speak for such a diverse spectrum of individuals. Life of Brian anyone?
Yes Jonno, we are all different
Yes Jonno, we are all individuals
Yes Jonno, we are all free
In reply to Fawksey:
The Queen definately doesnt do anything on my behalf. If she tried to give me an honour I'd happily tell her where to stick it. If that offends you then thats your problem, not mine.
National Anthem? Its not my anthem. And its crap.
Cheers, Si. xx
> (In reply to Jonno) I think we all know that Mick would be better off in Russia altering books to fit in with his own beliefs
>
> How he could leave your misguided inflammatory statement but delete my reply I dont know
>
> The Queen gave that gong on my and your behalf and those who refuse them insult me, like the scousers at Wembley booing the national anthem - thats my anthem they are booing
>
> How he could leave your misguided inflammatory statement but delete my reply I dont know
>
> The Queen gave that gong on my and your behalf and those who refuse them insult me, like the scousers at Wembley booing the national anthem - thats my anthem they are booing
The Queen definately doesnt do anything on my behalf. If she tried to give me an honour I'd happily tell her where to stick it. If that offends you then thats your problem, not mine.
National Anthem? Its not my anthem. And its crap.
Cheers, Si. xx
In reply to simes303: Are you British?
In reply to Exeter Ash: Away from the tedious and tiresomely inevitable bickering in the thread, I'll join you in a hearty congratulations to Pat Littlejohn for his OBE, to those who nominated him for their choice, and to the establishment for recognising his achievements.
T.
T.
In reply to Exeter Ash: Yes unfortunately the national anthem is a dirge, Land of Hope and Glory would be fine by me
I respect it as mine and my countries anthem, though the tune and lrics are pretty abysmal
I respect it as mine and my countries anthem, though the tune and lrics are pretty abysmal
In reply to simes303: It is your national anthem, but i respect the fact that it may not speak for you, Im intrigued as to why you wouldnt want the figurehead of your country to bestow an honour on someone desrving?
In reply to simes303: yes poet who refused his, I remember being annoyed at him at the time
Do you think the UK, the Queen, me are responsible for slavery?
Do you think that somewhere back in your ancestry one of your own forefathers may have helped aquire people for the slave trade?
Do you think Harewood house should be torn down as it was built on the proceeds of slavery?
Do you think the UK, the Queen, me are responsible for slavery?
Do you think that somewhere back in your ancestry one of your own forefathers may have helped aquire people for the slave trade?
Do you think Harewood house should be torn down as it was built on the proceeds of slavery?
In reply to simes303: I was considering if the word "empire" was replaced but it would be the thin end of the wedge as everyone would find everything offensive and we would have a grey flag and an anthem with no words to the tune of a single blast on a kazoo
maybe we should think of an award in the name of empire as empire as "is" not as "was"?
maybe we should think of an award in the name of empire as empire as "is" not as "was"?
In reply to SARS: let me go look that word up and I will get back to you!
In reply to SARS: Yes, but I view the Queen as figurehead and an instrument of government, the decision making power of government in this country is in Westminster not Buckingham palace
I myself dont particulaly want an MDF laminated republic with a president who will probably be the last outgoing prime minister but I know that ne day the majority will want that and it will happen
I myself dont particulaly want an MDF laminated republic with a president who will probably be the last outgoing prime minister but I know that ne day the majority will want that and it will happen
In reply to Fawksey:
Fair enough, but personally I'm against the 'top' job (whether real or not) being passed down by inheritance. Same reason I would be against the abolition of inheritance/death tax.
> (In reply to SARS) Yes, but I view the Queen as figurehead and an instrument of government
Fair enough, but personally I'm against the 'top' job (whether real or not) being passed down by inheritance. Same reason I would be against the abolition of inheritance/death tax.
In reply to SARS: I wouldnt want complete abolition of inheritance tax I think lately its just that with inflation especially in house values some people are now included in inheritance tax that it wasnt really meant to include
In reply to Exeter Ash:
You have got to be joking? Replace the anthem by all means, but not with one of the most racist, bigoted, jingoistic pieces of embarrassing music the world has ever known! Compared to that the current anthem is fairly benign, if overly twee.
>
> Agreed the anthem is an abortion! Land of H&G anyone?
> Agreed the anthem is an abortion! Land of H&G anyone?
You have got to be joking? Replace the anthem by all means, but not with one of the most racist, bigoted, jingoistic pieces of embarrassing music the world has ever known! Compared to that the current anthem is fairly benign, if overly twee.
In reply to Exeter Ash:
Congratulations to Pat. I enjoyed the lecture by him that I went to last year.
Congratulations to Pat. I enjoyed the lecture by him that I went to last year.
In reply to AlisonS: does it contain dubious verse?
Been unable to use UKC for a month or two and thank god is all I can say. How about people being simply glad that a "proper" climber's climber has been recognised in some way. You miserable gits.
In reply to JonC:
Agreed, and a proper climber who doesn't constantly self publicise and gets on with doing what he loves.
The national anthem is crap as well though, something by Vaughan Williams would be much better.
Agreed, and a proper climber who doesn't constantly self publicise and gets on with doing what he loves.
The national anthem is crap as well though, something by Vaughan Williams would be much better.
In reply to Exeter Ash:
Congratulations Pat - good to see mountaineering getting some well deserved recognition. Pat and ISM literally showed me the ropes some years back - found him a true gent and great teacher as well as an excellent communicator and ambassador for mountaineering.
Congratulations Pat - good to see mountaineering getting some well deserved recognition. Pat and ISM literally showed me the ropes some years back - found him a true gent and great teacher as well as an excellent communicator and ambassador for mountaineering.
In reply to Exeter Ash:
Labour have been trying to give the honours system more emphasis on ordinary people for some years now. According to today's Guardian the "vast majority" of the 972 honours given today are to 'ordinary people'.
I think I'm right in saying these are government awards rather than Royal awards too.
Labour have been trying to give the honours system more emphasis on ordinary people for some years now. According to today's Guardian the "vast majority" of the 972 honours given today are to 'ordinary people'.
I think I'm right in saying these are government awards rather than Royal awards too.
In reply to Fawksey:
"God who made thee mighty, make thee mightier yet."
I can only think of one thing that deserves that said of it, and that's me! And possibly Pat Littlejohn.
But not a country and certainly not an empire.
> (In reply to AlisonS) does it contain dubious verse?
"God who made thee mighty, make thee mightier yet."
I can only think of one thing that deserves that said of it, and that's me! And possibly Pat Littlejohn.
But not a country and certainly not an empire.
In reply to JonC:
Why so ? Why should anyone with half a brain...apart from Leeds answer to Alf Garnett and the usual RT Ben Fogles...support such an archaic and mindless tradition as awarding medals to people like Kylie Minogue, Michael Parkinson and the chairman of Marks and Spencers !
That's nice...being gonged for being successful,making yourself a few million quid and generally being a nice safe establishment toady.
Nothing against Pat Littlejohn as a person....Why he even upped a route of mine from HVS up to E1... but Pat...why oh why do you need to dress up like a penguin and bend your knee in front of that German regal usurper and accept a piece of tat from the establishment ?
What next... A Hello photo shoot from Leysin !
> Been unable to use UKC for a month or two and thank god is all I can say. How about people being simply glad that a "proper" climber's climber has been recognised in some way. You miserable gits.>>>
Why so ? Why should anyone with half a brain...apart from Leeds answer to Alf Garnett and the usual RT Ben Fogles...support such an archaic and mindless tradition as awarding medals to people like Kylie Minogue, Michael Parkinson and the chairman of Marks and Spencers !
That's nice...being gonged for being successful,making yourself a few million quid and generally being a nice safe establishment toady.
Nothing against Pat Littlejohn as a person....Why he even upped a route of mine from HVS up to E1... but Pat...why oh why do you need to dress up like a penguin and bend your knee in front of that German regal usurper and accept a piece of tat from the establishment ?
What next... A Hello photo shoot from Leysin !
In reply to Jonno: oh how homophobic one of her ancestors was German (how original of you too)
Why dont you let Mr Lttlejohn enjoy his gong as it should be and stop smearing it with your hatred of the monarchy?
Why do you have to tarnish the award with your contempt for something else?
Why dont you let Mr Lttlejohn enjoy his gong as it should be and stop smearing it with your hatred of the monarchy?
Why do you have to tarnish the award with your contempt for something else?
In reply to Jonno:
Why not recognise people who achieve something? Would it make you happier perhaps if it were Arthur Scargill handing out the awards.
You don't like the awards, so what.
No need to make yourself look like a pillock by insulting those that accept them or can see some merit in them. But carry on if you really want to..............
Why not recognise people who achieve something? Would it make you happier perhaps if it were Arthur Scargill handing out the awards.
You don't like the awards, so what.
No need to make yourself look like a pillock by insulting those that accept them or can see some merit in them. But carry on if you really want to..............
In reply to Exeter Ash:
Always treated Pat Littlejohns routes with great respect and you can guarantee they will be good value! Also Pat's routes are within reach of most keen climbers which makes them very popular. So it's 3 cheers to Pat from me and great to see a modest unassuming man get recognition for all the dedication to our sport.
Always treated Pat Littlejohns routes with great respect and you can guarantee they will be good value! Also Pat's routes are within reach of most keen climbers which makes them very popular. So it's 3 cheers to Pat from me and great to see a modest unassuming man get recognition for all the dedication to our sport.
What a legend!!
In reply to Jonno:
"And you think you're so clever and classless and free
But you're still f*cking peasants as far as I can see"
John Winston Lennon (OBE)
> Why should anyone with half a brain...
"And you think you're so clever and classless and free
But you're still f*cking peasants as far as I can see"
John Winston Lennon (OBE)
In reply to Jonno:
Does it really matter if it given by anyone, it is just recognition for his contribution to climbing. Obviously you will buy him a bottle of champagne to show how much you appreciate him when you see him.
Does it really matter if it given by anyone, it is just recognition for his contribution to climbing. Obviously you will buy him a bottle of champagne to show how much you appreciate him when you see him.
In reply to Exeter Ash:
Fantastic news; it would be hard to think of a more deserving and universally respected figure within the climbing world to be honoured.
Fantastic news; it would be hard to think of a more deserving and universally respected figure within the climbing world to be honoured.
In reply to Bern: -
>Also Pat's routes are within reach of most keen climbers which makes them very popular
Blimey, now there's a backhander. I think "'some of' Pat's routes" would be nearer the mark.
jcm
>Also Pat's routes are within reach of most keen climbers which makes them very popular
Blimey, now there's a backhander. I think "'some of' Pat's routes" would be nearer the mark.
jcm
In reply to Exeter Ash:
Nice one, awesome. Great that a climber's climber's been recognised before yet another everest plodder or publicity seeking arse. If Mick Fowler gets one, willit be for services to Tax or to Choss?
Nice one, awesome. Great that a climber's climber's been recognised before yet another everest plodder or publicity seeking arse. If Mick Fowler gets one, willit be for services to Tax or to Choss?
In reply to Jonno:
>" the chairman of Marks and Spencers !
Come on, even a leftward leaning scrounger like me knows he also saved the company from making losses, returned it to profit, from when at one point it was being threatened with a cheap sale to Peter Green. The CEO and David Beckham OBE.
>" the chairman of Marks and Spencers !
> That's nice...being gonged for being successful,making yourself a few million quid and generally being a nice safe establishment toady."
Come on, even a leftward leaning scrounger like me knows he also saved the company from making losses, returned it to profit, from when at one point it was being threatened with a cheap sale to Peter Green. The CEO and David Beckham OBE.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Maybe Joe Brown although Joe had the good sense and integrity to refuse one !
> (In reply to Exeter Ash)
>
> Congratulations. Hard to think of a more deserving recipient.
>
> jcm>>>
>
> Congratulations. Hard to think of a more deserving recipient.
>
> jcm>>>
Maybe Joe Brown although Joe had the good sense and integrity to refuse one !
In reply to Jonno:
So Pat doesn't have good sense or any integrity?
Why don't you give it rest and go and read some back copies of Socialist Worker............
So Pat doesn't have good sense or any integrity?
Why don't you give it rest and go and read some back copies of Socialist Worker............
In reply to Simon22:
Never read the Socialist worker....that would be for mindless authoritarians like yourself. As for letting go.
The honours system is one of my Room 101 pet hates so if I'm given a open goal and going to take the ball and run with it.
> (
>
>
>>
>
>
> Why don't you give it rest and go and read some back copies of Socialist Worker............>>>
> Why don't you give it rest and go and read some back copies of Socialist Worker............>>>
Never read the Socialist worker....that would be for mindless authoritarians like yourself. As for letting go.
The honours system is one of my Room 101 pet hates so if I'm given a open goal and going to take the ball and run with it.
In reply to Jonno:
....and miss by a country mile. Your dislike of the honours system is one thing but to castigate an individual for accepting an award based on the premise that climbing isn't like that is fundamentally flawed.
> The honours system is one of my Room 101 pet hates so if I'm given a open goal and going to take the ball and run with it.
....and miss by a country mile. Your dislike of the honours system is one thing but to castigate an individual for accepting an award based on the premise that climbing isn't like that is fundamentally flawed.
In reply to Exeter Ash: Thats really good news.
Al
Al
In reply to Exeter Ash: Well done Pat Littlejohn. A thoroughly deserved award to someone committed to their sport.
In reply to Al Evans:
No Al...finding a cure for cancer or solving the Palastine problem would be 'really good news'.
Accepting something invented by King George V in 1917 to appease the masses is not in the same league.
Unless you're a rampant monarchist of course which I didn't think you were ?
> (In reply to Exeter Ash) Thats really good news.
> Al>>>
> Al>>>
No Al...finding a cure for cancer or solving the Palastine problem would be 'really good news'.
Accepting something invented by King George V in 1917 to appease the masses is not in the same league.
Unless you're a rampant monarchist of course which I didn't think you were ?
In reply to Jonno:
>finding a cure for cancer or solving the Palastine problem would be 'really good news'.
Indeed.... and your energies could be more appropriately focussed on such issues, as opposed to taking shots at an individual who has been recognised by a system that you happen to disapprove of.
>finding a cure for cancer or solving the Palastine problem would be 'really good news'.
Indeed.... and your energies could be more appropriately focussed on such issues, as opposed to taking shots at an individual who has been recognised by a system that you happen to disapprove of.
In reply to Jonno:
some of these people seem to have refused one honour, only to accept another (or the same one) a few years later. what's that about, then?
> (In reply to Exeter Ash)
>
>
> The more worthy list to be on !!!
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_who_have_declined_a_British_hon...
> List of people who have declined a British honour - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
>
>
> The more worthy list to be on !!!
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_who_have_declined_a_British_hon...
> List of people who have declined a British honour - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
some of these people seem to have refused one honour, only to accept another (or the same one) a few years later. what's that about, then?
In reply to martin k:
I've had a look at that list again. Not many have had second thoughts as far as I can see.
Some amazing refuseniks on that list who you wouldn't expect..
Michael Winner...'An OBE is what you get if you clean the toilets at King's Cross!'
French & Saunders
John Cleese
David Bowie who was offered an knighthood.Thank God for that Dave. You'd be as naff as Sir Paul,Sir Mick ,Sir Bob and Sir Elton !
Nigella Lawson
Ken Brannagh
Paul Weller
Jon Snow
Keith Richards
and a host of others......
and..not on the list but I understand another refusenik was Joe Brown.
Good on ye all I say !
> (In reply to Jonno)
> [...]
>
> some of these people seem to have refused one honour, only to accept another (or the same one) a few years later. what's that about, then?.
> [...]
>
> some of these people seem to have refused one honour, only to accept another (or the same one) a few years later. what's that about, then?.
I've had a look at that list again. Not many have had second thoughts as far as I can see.
Some amazing refuseniks on that list who you wouldn't expect..
Michael Winner...'An OBE is what you get if you clean the toilets at King's Cross!'
French & Saunders
John Cleese
David Bowie who was offered an knighthood.Thank God for that Dave. You'd be as naff as Sir Paul,Sir Mick ,Sir Bob and Sir Elton !
Nigella Lawson
Ken Brannagh
Paul Weller
Jon Snow
Keith Richards
and a host of others......
and..not on the list but I understand another refusenik was Joe Brown.
Good on ye all I say !
In reply to Jonno:
Possibly Pat Littlejohn doesn't think the same way as you do, maybe he thinks it's an honour to receive an honour so to speak.
Possibly Pat Littlejohn doesn't think the same way as you do, maybe he thinks it's an honour to receive an honour so to speak.
In reply to Jonno:
Jonno...would you like to state your case clearly? Present an argument....take your time....750 words and we could run it in the Down The Pub forum.
Mick
Jonno...would you like to state your case clearly? Present an argument....take your time....750 words and we could run it in the Down The Pub forum.
Mick
In reply to Jonno:
Try it, it sounds right up your street judging by some of the left-wing nonsense you post on here and will no doubt have the odd anti-establishment/monarchy rant that will warm the cockles of your heart.....
> (In reply to Simon22)
> [...]
>
>
> Never read the Socialist worker....that would be for mindless authoritarians like yourself. As for letting go.
> [...]
>
>
> Never read the Socialist worker....that would be for mindless authoritarians like yourself. As for letting go.
Try it, it sounds right up your street judging by some of the left-wing nonsense you post on here and will no doubt have the odd anti-establishment/monarchy rant that will warm the cockles of your heart.....
In reply to Mick Ryan - Editor - UKC: falling over yourself to give him a platform for his particular view? We have already had to suffer your selective editing of this thread
In reply to Fawksey:
You're really morphing into the original 'Angry of Tunbridge Wells'!
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - Editor - UKC) falling over yourself to give him a platform for his particular view? We have already had to suffer your selective editing of this thread>>>
You're really morphing into the original 'Angry of Tunbridge Wells'!
In reply to Jonno:
"I've had a look at that list again. Not many have had second thoughts as far as I can see."
105 offers of an honour refused, 29 further offers accepted...which works out at something like 25% of those who refused an honour later decided it would be "quite nice, actually". i'd say this is a significant percentage. why do you think so many change their minds?
"I've had a look at that list again. Not many have had second thoughts as far as I can see."
105 offers of an honour refused, 29 further offers accepted...which works out at something like 25% of those who refused an honour later decided it would be "quite nice, actually". i'd say this is a significant percentage. why do you think so many change their minds?
In reply to martin k:
Fascinating. Maybe someone points out to them that if they have any nationally recognised qualification at all, be it an O level or a GCSE or a degree, then that's an award given by 'the establishment', so if 'the establishment' wants to give them a really special award for doing something really special, it's perhaps not that logical to refuse.
Fascinating. Maybe someone points out to them that if they have any nationally recognised qualification at all, be it an O level or a GCSE or a degree, then that's an award given by 'the establishment', so if 'the establishment' wants to give them a really special award for doing something really special, it's perhaps not that logical to refuse.
In reply to martin k:
I don't know why they bother to publish a list of refusenics, it just gives the ungrateful the very publicity which they appear to shun.
I don't know why they bother to publish a list of refusenics, it just gives the ungrateful the very publicity which they appear to shun.
In reply to Exeter Ash:
Eroica
Mercury
Savage God
Darkinbad the Brightdayler
Il Duce
America
Guernica
Hardcore!
Eroica
Mercury
Savage God
Darkinbad the Brightdayler
Il Duce
America
Guernica
Hardcore!
In reply to Exeter Ash:
Only an OBE? It should have been a knighthood! "You don't need chalk below E3" (or was it E2?) was the best bit of climbing advice I was ever given. My sandwiches have tasted better ever since I took his advice. Trundelling up Grooved Arete with my 12 year old this Summer I was shocked (or saddened) to see it covered in the stuff. People should listen to guys like Pat a bit more often - my chalk bag got ditched in 1985! - probably why I've never got passed HVS, but who cares....
Only an OBE? It should have been a knighthood! "You don't need chalk below E3" (or was it E2?) was the best bit of climbing advice I was ever given. My sandwiches have tasted better ever since I took his advice. Trundelling up Grooved Arete with my 12 year old this Summer I was shocked (or saddened) to see it covered in the stuff. People should listen to guys like Pat a bit more often - my chalk bag got ditched in 1985! - probably why I've never got passed HVS, but who cares....
In reply to Trangia: the refuseniks are an almost insignificant minority of the total number of awards: 75 "genuine" refusals over the last 8 years, compared with slightly more than 7700 acceptances... about 0.9%.
statistically, these honours are unanimously accepted & appreciated, and the delightful mr littlejohn, many of whose excellent adventures i have either repeated or plan to, should be proud of himself.
statistically, these honours are unanimously accepted & appreciated, and the delightful mr littlejohn, many of whose excellent adventures i have either repeated or plan to, should be proud of himself.
In reply to Barrington:
Sometime after doing Terminal Twilight (Britain's hardest chalkless ascent?) I thought he did then start using it later because he realised how much harder he could climb. I have just done an E1 without chalk, but other people you could name have much bigger problems with sweat.
And yes, it should've been a knighthood.
Sometime after doing Terminal Twilight (Britain's hardest chalkless ascent?) I thought he did then start using it later because he realised how much harder he could climb. I have just done an E1 without chalk, but other people you could name have much bigger problems with sweat.
And yes, it should've been a knighthood.
In reply to Jonno:
Didn't the Vicar of Dibley refuse an OBE anyway?
Congratulations to Pat!
> ....so put that with your Vicar of Dibley videos and your Daily Mail gardening supplements !
Didn't the Vicar of Dibley refuse an OBE anyway?
Congratulations to Pat!
In reply to Exeter Ash:
Well done to also a Sunderland bus drive, David something?, awarded MBE. Now that's something. Who can beat that?
Well done to also a Sunderland bus drive, David something?, awarded MBE. Now that's something. Who can beat that?
In reply to Skinny Kin:
Do you mean a Sunderland bus route?
(sorry, couldn't resist :-P)
> (In reply to Exeter Ash)
> Well done to also a Sunderland bus drive,
> Well done to also a Sunderland bus drive,
Do you mean a Sunderland bus route?
(sorry, couldn't resist :-P)
In reply to Paz:
I guess he might have done, but by then I would have already been a convert - If I'm honest; what's going on in my own head is what would push my grade up, rather than what's on my fingers. But limestone on a hot summer day (rare I know) can be "fun" without the stuff.
I guess he might have done, but by then I would have already been a convert - If I'm honest; what's going on in my own head is what would push my grade up, rather than what's on my fingers. But limestone on a hot summer day (rare I know) can be "fun" without the stuff.
In reply to Barrington:
I think sans chalk's a useful skill, as it makes you faster, you just climb. If you think about the amount if time you essentially waste shaking out, chalking up, philosophising about life, even praying to your particular god apparently, then it makes sense.
There are moves I can only do or holds I can only hold with chalk though (crux of Bullworker). And if you have to do a hard move with one hand, chalking up (or placing gear) off the other to rest it is an advanced skill.
Nice moniker anyway. I like Danny John-Jules' stuff.
I think sans chalk's a useful skill, as it makes you faster, you just climb. If you think about the amount if time you essentially waste shaking out, chalking up, philosophising about life, even praying to your particular god apparently, then it makes sense.
There are moves I can only do or holds I can only hold with chalk though (crux of Bullworker). And if you have to do a hard move with one hand, chalking up (or placing gear) off the other to rest it is an advanced skill.
Nice moniker anyway. I like Danny John-Jules' stuff.
In reply to AlisonS:
Missed out an 'r'. Sunderland bus driver who was awarded an MBE.
> Do you mean a Sunderland bus route?
>
> (sorry, couldn't resist :-P)
>
> (sorry, couldn't resist :-P)
Missed out an 'r'. Sunderland bus driver who was awarded an MBE.
In reply to martin k:
Our car park attendant at work got an MBE: he's as pleased as anything and certainly deserves it. I cant bring myself to begrudge him or Pat congratulations. owvere if offered I would probably refuse an award (with the proviso that the consequencies didn't outway the gesture). This is not that I'm some left wing idealogue but that we live in modern times and the application of the awards is clearly unfair and if enough people do something they might fix that.
Our car park attendant at work got an MBE: he's as pleased as anything and certainly deserves it. I cant bring myself to begrudge him or Pat congratulations. owvere if offered I would probably refuse an award (with the proviso that the consequencies didn't outway the gesture). This is not that I'm some left wing idealogue but that we live in modern times and the application of the awards is clearly unfair and if enough people do something they might fix that.
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