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Mick Ryan asked Pat Littlejohn a few questions about his OBE.
Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/older.html?month=01&year=2008#n41941
Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/older.html?month=01&year=2008#n41941
In reply to JonC:
And there was Jonno thinking he had only accepted it to wind him up !
A far more deserving candidate for services to mountaineering than one Rebecca Stevens, that is for sure.
And there was Jonno thinking he had only accepted it to wind him up !
A far more deserving candidate for services to mountaineering than one Rebecca Stevens, that is for sure.
In reply to GrahamD: Or Annabel Bond
In reply to Nicholas Livesey:
I thought she was a nightclub. And who the f*ck is Rebecca Stephens??
jcm
I thought she was a nightclub. And who the f*ck is Rebecca Stephens??
jcm
In reply to GrahamD:
Wasn't she in SClub7?
> (In reply to JonC)
>
>
> A far more deserving candidate for services to mountaineering than one Rebecca Stevens, that is for sure.
Wasn't she in SClub7?
In reply to Mick Ryan - Editor - UKC:
Good technique on ice..
http://www.rebeccastephens.com/images/rebecca_stephens_003.jpg
Good technique on ice..
http://www.rebeccastephens.com/images/rebecca_stephens_003.jpg
In reply to Mick Ryan - Editor - UKC: "Rebecca then went on to become the first English-speaking woman in the world to climb the Seven Summits."
what does the fact that she was the first english speaking woman have to do with anything. fair play not the easiest thing to do but it does seem a bit of a non event.
what does the fact that she was the first english speaking woman have to do with anything. fair play not the easiest thing to do but it does seem a bit of a non event.
In reply to Mick Ryan - Editor - UKC:
Oh, her! Good God. Please tell me she's not really an OBE.
jcm
Oh, her! Good God. Please tell me she's not really an OBE.
jcm
In reply to Paz:
Creator and patenter of Bovril mint cake....as used on the successful Goole University expedition up Moel Hebog via Cwm Pennant in 1999 and inventor of the velcro bra strap.
> (In reply to GrahamD)
>
> Rebecca, but who is Jonno anyway?>>>
>
> Rebecca, but who is Jonno anyway?>>>
Creator and patenter of Bovril mint cake....as used on the successful Goole University expedition up Moel Hebog via Cwm Pennant in 1999 and inventor of the velcro bra strap.
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
She got an MBE
Please god can somebody reassure me that an OBE is worth more than an MBE?
She got an MBE
Please god can somebody reassure me that an OBE is worth more than an MBE?
In reply to Jonno:
I think men and women's lives alike will have been made easier with your velcro bra strap too. Anyway, could you please indulge me further and give me your full name, and the following details:
Surname:
It is most important that the name given is accurate and that the spelling is correct.
Forenames:
Known as: Jonno
If different from above
Title:
E.g. Mr, Mrs, Miss, Ms, Dr, Rev etc.
Address:
Name of building
No and Street:
Village:
Town:
County:
Post Code:
Date of Birth:
Or approximate age if date of birth is not known.
Telephone no:
If known. (Incl. area code).
Nationality: Welsh
British
Please tick.
Rest assured, we'll do the rest!
I think men and women's lives alike will have been made easier with your velcro bra strap too. Anyway, could you please indulge me further and give me your full name, and the following details:
Surname:
It is most important that the name given is accurate and that the spelling is correct.
Forenames:
Known as: Jonno
If different from above
Title:
E.g. Mr, Mrs, Miss, Ms, Dr, Rev etc.
Address:
Name of building
No and Street:
Village:
Town:
County:
Post Code:
Date of Birth:
Or approximate age if date of birth is not known.
Telephone no:
If known. (Incl. area code).
Nationality: Welsh
British
Please tick.
Rest assured, we'll do the rest!
In reply to billy.grant:
Nothing, Her Everest climb was a media event, she just spotted the opening in the record book (just before ?*? thingy who died on K2), although by some commentators views she did actually did good on the summit day, then pushed out the for '7' once she smelt the money in the media attention.
Nothing, Her Everest climb was a media event, she just spotted the opening in the record book (just before ?*? thingy who died on K2), although by some commentators views she did actually did good on the summit day, then pushed out the for '7' once she smelt the money in the media attention.
In reply to Jules King:
Alison Hargreaves. She was hardcore.
> (just before ?*? thingy who died on K2),
Alison Hargreaves. She was hardcore.
In reply topaz:
Unfortunately to protect my secrecy, the Velcro bra strap was made under licence by Grip-fast Mammary Control Systems of Boise, Idaho.....
I only get 1% of every bra sold, paid into one of my Cayman Island accounts.
Unfortunately to protect my secrecy, the Velcro bra strap was made under licence by Grip-fast Mammary Control Systems of Boise, Idaho.....
I only get 1% of every bra sold, paid into one of my Cayman Island accounts.
In reply to billy.grant: From the Rebecca Stephens Internet temple of worship:-
"A new lecture, The Seven Summits of Success, presented as a keynote, or
as a workshop tailored to your organisation, allows you and your company
to hear Rebecca's inspirational message in person.
Through experiences in wild, at times dangerous environments,
Rebecca reveals how individuals and teams can realise their own
potential and excel by learning to apply seven 'summit' principles:
The Kilimanjaro principle -- The First Step
The Denali principle -- Acquiring the Skills
The Everest principle -- Effective teamwork
The Elbrus principle -- Coaching
The Carstensz principle -- Recruiting the best available talent
The Aconcagua principle -- Positive Thinking
The Vinson principle -- Tenacity to the Last
Insightful, practical and life-affirming,...."
Marketing BS of the highest order. She should get an OBE for it (Order of Bs Excellence)...
"A new lecture, The Seven Summits of Success, presented as a keynote, or
as a workshop tailored to your organisation, allows you and your company
to hear Rebecca's inspirational message in person.
Through experiences in wild, at times dangerous environments,
Rebecca reveals how individuals and teams can realise their own
potential and excel by learning to apply seven 'summit' principles:
The Kilimanjaro principle -- The First Step
The Denali principle -- Acquiring the Skills
The Everest principle -- Effective teamwork
The Elbrus principle -- Coaching
The Carstensz principle -- Recruiting the best available talent
The Aconcagua principle -- Positive Thinking
The Vinson principle -- Tenacity to the Last
Insightful, practical and life-affirming,...."
Marketing BS of the highest order. She should get an OBE for it (Order of Bs Excellence)...
In reply to Jonno:
I don't think you ever invent that sort of thing for the money though. I'm not sure it actually would make women's lives easier (I can't imagine how I'd put one on anyway) and it'd stick to your clothes, even if their men would be happier about it. It might do well in the gifts market, therefore.
In reply to Chris F:
Someone's already said they thought Joe Brown turned one down.
I'd like to see the following recognised for promoting climbing:
Jack Osbourne
Brian Blessed
Clint Eastwood
Sylvester Stallone (and everyone else in Cliffhanger, in particular the one who said "There's only two climbers in the world could climb this face. Fancy a try?", and most from Vertical Limit)
Griff Rhys Jones
Janet Street-Porter (she climbed Snowdon once)
Julia Bradbury
I don't think you ever invent that sort of thing for the money though. I'm not sure it actually would make women's lives easier (I can't imagine how I'd put one on anyway) and it'd stick to your clothes, even if their men would be happier about it. It might do well in the gifts market, therefore.
In reply to Chris F:
Someone's already said they thought Joe Brown turned one down.
I'd like to see the following recognised for promoting climbing:
Jack Osbourne
Brian Blessed
Clint Eastwood
Sylvester Stallone (and everyone else in Cliffhanger, in particular the one who said "There's only two climbers in the world could climb this face. Fancy a try?", and most from Vertical Limit)
Griff Rhys Jones
Janet Street-Porter (she climbed Snowdon once)
Julia Bradbury
I think you're all being a bit harsh on Rebecca. She is after all a member of the same club as me and was on the committee for a while, so she has tried to put something back into the sport.
I attended a lecture at the club that she gave once and enjoyed it and liked her. I thought she was genuine enough.
Other women had plenty of time to be the first Brit to summit Everest. They weren't and she was.
Of course as a mountaineer, I admire people who do bold first ascents in remote locations more than people who are guided up tick lists, and I'd rather see mountaineering credits got to the former rather than the latter. But I don't suppose Rebecca asked for the award, and perhaps it was intended to inspire other women to push their limits.
Rebecca has set her own targets and achieved them, so good for her. Even if her targets are different ones to those that many of us would choose.
I attended a lecture at the club that she gave once and enjoyed it and liked her. I thought she was genuine enough.
Other women had plenty of time to be the first Brit to summit Everest. They weren't and she was.
Of course as a mountaineer, I admire people who do bold first ascents in remote locations more than people who are guided up tick lists, and I'd rather see mountaineering credits got to the former rather than the latter. But I don't suppose Rebecca asked for the award, and perhaps it was intended to inspire other women to push their limits.
Rebecca has set her own targets and achieved them, so good for her. Even if her targets are different ones to those that many of us would choose.
In reply to AlisonS:
I would like to see a target between Rebecca's shoulder blades !
> Rebecca has set her own targets and achieved them, so good for her. Even if her targets are different ones to those that many of us would choose.>>>
I would like to see a target between Rebecca's shoulder blades !
In reply to AlisonS:
Still think it was a marketing stunt, particularly the 7 summits. I've also heard that the OBE was 'pushed through' on the back of the fact that some of the people she mixes with `move in the right circles'.
However
All this is completely off the point, we should be celebrating Pat getting an OBE and the fact that this is a real recognition for one of the UK's most talented and dedicated climbers, well done Pat.
Still think it was a marketing stunt, particularly the 7 summits. I've also heard that the OBE was 'pushed through' on the back of the fact that some of the people she mixes with `move in the right circles'.
However
All this is completely off the point, we should be celebrating Pat getting an OBE and the fact that this is a real recognition for one of the UK's most talented and dedicated climbers, well done Pat.
In reply to Jules King: where did you hear that her OBE was pushed through? You know that hear say cant be used as evidence
In reply to AlisonS:
Agreed, Alison. Rebecca is a great girl, and all to readily sneered at by people who do not know her.
What you say is crucial: she focused on a target and did it. Plus she climbed all of the other '7 highest summits' in the world, I think. In terms of an kind of climbing ability she's way down the list, but what she actually achieved cannot be taken away from her. A nice person too. That MBE was thoroughly deserved.
Agreed, Alison. Rebecca is a great girl, and all to readily sneered at by people who do not know her.
What you say is crucial: she focused on a target and did it. Plus she climbed all of the other '7 highest summits' in the world, I think. In terms of an kind of climbing ability she's way down the list, but what she actually achieved cannot be taken away from her. A nice person too. That MBE was thoroughly deserved.
In reply to Fawksey:
Not presenting any evidence m'lord , mearly putting forward my observations, I beleive it was a comment in the factually sound sunday press, no doubt based on obseravations from the bar (your choice of bar), draw your own conclusions.
Not presenting any evidence m'lord , mearly putting forward my observations, I beleive it was a comment in the factually sound sunday press, no doubt based on obseravations from the bar (your choice of bar), draw your own conclusions.
In reply to Jules King: I will just take it as a bit of bitchy gossip then
In reply to Mick Ryan - Editor - UKC:
Another congratulations to Pat - a quiet man of climbing but extremely important and inspirational..
... I've still got one of his harnesses going strong!
;0)
Si
Another congratulations to Pat - a quiet man of climbing but extremely important and inspirational..
... I've still got one of his harnesses going strong!
;0)
Si
In reply to Mick Ryan - Editor - UKC:
Relating this 10 minutes ago to one of the Rock & Ice 50's greats...not impressed.
He quoted Virginia Woolf's response when offered a gong....'I never accept sweeties from strange people' !
Quite.
Relating this 10 minutes ago to one of the Rock & Ice 50's greats...not impressed.
He quoted Virginia Woolf's response when offered a gong....'I never accept sweeties from strange people' !
Quite.
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
>Plus she climbed all of the other '7 highest summits' in the world, I think
I'd be prepared to bet she couldn't even name the next seven highest summits in the world, if that's what you mean.
jcm
>Plus she climbed all of the other '7 highest summits' in the world, I think
I'd be prepared to bet she couldn't even name the next seven highest summits in the world, if that's what you mean.
jcm
In reply to Anonymous:
Nor could I. Go on then John. What are they?
> (In reply to Gordon Stainforth)
>
> >Plus she climbed all of the other '7 highest summits' in the world, I think
>
> I'd be prepared to bet she couldn't even name the next seven highest summits in the world, if that's what you mean.
>
> jcm
>
> >Plus she climbed all of the other '7 highest summits' in the world, I think
>
> I'd be prepared to bet she couldn't even name the next seven highest summits in the world, if that's what you mean.
>
> jcm
Nor could I. Go on then John. What are they?
In reply to Jules King:
She only got an MBE, not an OBE, big difference
> (In reply to AlisonS)
>
> ... I've also heard that the OBE was 'pushed through' ...
>
> ... I've also heard that the OBE was 'pushed through' ...
She only got an MBE, not an OBE, big difference
In reply to Gordon Stainforth: Sorry Gordon but I fairly strongly disagree. Compared to Alison Hargreaves, Rebecca's climbing achievements are not that great. Being good at goal-setting and being a thoroughly nice person are not, to my mind, sufficiently good reasons to get an MBE. What she achieved cannot, indeed, be taken away from her, but that doesn't mean it can't be ranked and compared with others and found wanting.
In reply to Anonymous: I suspect you missed the point. There is (or at least was) some argument over what are the Seven Summits. Kosciusko in Australia was considered the highest Australasian one for some time, others considered Mt. Cook because its a much better looking mountain, and then they settled on Carstenz pyramid because its much more exotic and has a crux of HVS I believe.
In reply to kevin stephens:
Correction noted and accepted, appology given for poor proofing. You are right, there is a big difference.
Pat´s a great climber and his book on south West climbs really awoke a new impiration in me for adventure, just wish I had the talent to follow.
Correction noted and accepted, appology given for poor proofing. You are right, there is a big difference.
Pat´s a great climber and his book on south West climbs really awoke a new impiration in me for adventure, just wish I had the talent to follow.
In reply to Mick Ryan - Editor - UKC:
I have worked and climbed with Pat Littlejohn and he certainly deserves his honour. He is a delight to climb with, always looking to create the most excitement for his fellow climbers regardless of their capability and completely passionate about our sport. At the same time I was working with Pat I was involved in kitting out Rebecca Stephens Everest Expedition and met her several times, she was both serious about her attempt and very appreciative of the opportunity she had. I have several friends with long climbing histories who have made multiple attempts on Everest and failed, Rebecca did not. Pat mentions he was pleased to accept the award for a non-competitive non Olympic sport. How does de-crying one climber and applauding another add value to our collective experience of such a great sport?
I have worked and climbed with Pat Littlejohn and he certainly deserves his honour. He is a delight to climb with, always looking to create the most excitement for his fellow climbers regardless of their capability and completely passionate about our sport. At the same time I was working with Pat I was involved in kitting out Rebecca Stephens Everest Expedition and met her several times, she was both serious about her attempt and very appreciative of the opportunity she had. I have several friends with long climbing histories who have made multiple attempts on Everest and failed, Rebecca did not. Pat mentions he was pleased to accept the award for a non-competitive non Olympic sport. How does de-crying one climber and applauding another add value to our collective experience of such a great sport?
In reply to colc am:
>How does de-crying one climber and applauding another add value to our collective experience of such a great sport?
You seen her website?!
jcm
>How does de-crying one climber and applauding another add value to our collective experience of such a great sport?
You seen her website?!
jcm
In reply to colc am:
she was both serious about her attempt and very appreciative of the opportunity she had.
I should think so too, a freebie to Everest is a lot of people´s dream. Unfortunately most of us don´t have the media backing she had.
I have several friends with long climbing histories who have made multiple attempts on Everest and failed, Rebecca did not.
Possibly luck? This is no measure of skill or comitment.
How does de-crying one climber and applauding another add value to our collective experience of such a great sport?
I doesn´t as also neither does selling our sport out for media attention and personal gain without an equal measure of long term comitment returned add value either.
she was both serious about her attempt and very appreciative of the opportunity she had.
I should think so too, a freebie to Everest is a lot of people´s dream. Unfortunately most of us don´t have the media backing she had.
I have several friends with long climbing histories who have made multiple attempts on Everest and failed, Rebecca did not.
Possibly luck? This is no measure of skill or comitment.
How does de-crying one climber and applauding another add value to our collective experience of such a great sport?
I doesn´t as also neither does selling our sport out for media attention and personal gain without an equal measure of long term comitment returned add value either.
In reply to TobyA:
If they had any honour and fair play at all they'd climb all three, just to make damn sure of the tick, that's what I'd do.
If they had any honour and fair play at all they'd climb all three, just to make damn sure of the tick, that's what I'd do.
In reply to Anonymous:
People like Rebecca and Fiennes aren't "selling out or sport." They are just in a different but equally valid paradigm. Their objectives are defined by different superlatives; "biggest", "highest", "longest." Is that qualitatively better or worse than "remotest", "boldest", "most technically difficult", "most independent?" Well, perhaps not.
But in our world of human judgement, who is really to say what arbitrary measure of greatness is most worthy? Us? The masses?
> I doesn´t as also neither does selling our sport out for media attention and personal gain without an equal measure of long term comitment returned add value either.
People like Rebecca and Fiennes aren't "selling out or sport." They are just in a different but equally valid paradigm. Their objectives are defined by different superlatives; "biggest", "highest", "longest." Is that qualitatively better or worse than "remotest", "boldest", "most technically difficult", "most independent?" Well, perhaps not.
But in our world of human judgement, who is really to say what arbitrary measure of greatness is most worthy? Us? The masses?
In reply to AlisonS:
It all rather depends on what your understanding of what she received her gong for. My understanding was that it was to with services to mountaineering, in which case she has a pretty weak case. Anyone remember Julie Tullis or Allison Hargreaves ? pure achievement.
That is not in any way knocking what she has done - more questioning its gong worthiness.
If the gong is about something else - "women's inspiration" or something, others can comment better than I.
It all rather depends on what your understanding of what she received her gong for. My understanding was that it was to with services to mountaineering, in which case she has a pretty weak case. Anyone remember Julie Tullis or Allison Hargreaves ? pure achievement.
That is not in any way knocking what she has done - more questioning its gong worthiness.
If the gong is about something else - "women's inspiration" or something, others can comment better than I.
In reply to AlisonS:
Or even most "media generating"? For my money Fiennes is neither a climber or a mountaineer in terms of his defining activity, he is an adventurer / traveller (I´m not taking anything away from him here, let that be clear, he is an immense achiever).
The point is want has she put into mountaineering while obviously taking out? Vitually nothing. People like Pat just put in and in and in for the love of it, they take very small reward if any for their efforts yet add immense value over many years to their sport and the many people who also participate, by what they do and achieve. That for me is the measure of an Honour earnt.
Or even most "media generating"? For my money Fiennes is neither a climber or a mountaineer in terms of his defining activity, he is an adventurer / traveller (I´m not taking anything away from him here, let that be clear, he is an immense achiever).
The point is want has she put into mountaineering while obviously taking out? Vitually nothing. People like Pat just put in and in and in for the love of it, they take very small reward if any for their efforts yet add immense value over many years to their sport and the many people who also participate, by what they do and achieve. That for me is the measure of an Honour earnt.
In reply to Jules King:
Well I agree with you, and I am very much of the view that any award called "Services to Mountaineering" should at least be discussed with our National representative body first; otherwise what's the point?
But that is not the fault of the recipients, and it's unpleasant when it turns into a personal attack against them.
Well I agree with you, and I am very much of the view that any award called "Services to Mountaineering" should at least be discussed with our National representative body first; otherwise what's the point?
But that is not the fault of the recipients, and it's unpleasant when it turns into a personal attack against them.
In reply to AlisonS:
Surely it should be their (the proposed recipient) "National representative body" - the BMC, MCofS or the MCofI.
I have been successful with nominating someone (nothing to do with mountaineering) for an honour, and they got an MBE. I would imaging someone in the BMC would have contacted. There is a great deal of confidentiality involved, so don't expect a BMC comment about their involvement.
> (In reply to Jules King)
>
> Well I agree with you, and I am very much of the view that any award called "Services to Mountaineering" should at least be discussed with our National representative body first; otherwise what's the point?
>
> Well I agree with you, and I am very much of the view that any award called "Services to Mountaineering" should at least be discussed with our National representative body first; otherwise what's the point?
Surely it should be their (the proposed recipient) "National representative body" - the BMC, MCofS or the MCofI.
I have been successful with nominating someone (nothing to do with mountaineering) for an honour, and they got an MBE. I would imaging someone in the BMC would have contacted. There is a great deal of confidentiality involved, so don't expect a BMC comment about their involvement.
In reply to Norrie Muir: Thats interesting (genuinely)What is the procedure for nominating someone? Who do you contact? Obviously you must have to fill a form in of some sorts.
In reply to lewis1973:
Sorry, but as I said, there is a great deal of confidentiality involved, so don't expect me to give you answer your questions.
> (In reply to Norrie Muir) Thats interesting (genuinely)What is the procedure for nominating someone? Who do you contact? Obviously you must have to fill a form in of some sorts.
Sorry, but as I said, there is a great deal of confidentiality involved, so don't expect me to give you answer your questions.
In reply to sutty: Great. Cheers for that.
In reply to Norrie Muir:
I am prepared to be corrected on this but I think this was discussed at the BMC ManCom post the announcment as no one from the BMC was contacted for the national body´s consideration & comment. If so then ´sevices to mountaineering´ could seem a little presumptious by some.
I am prepared to be corrected on this but I think this was discussed at the BMC ManCom post the announcment as no one from the BMC was contacted for the national body´s consideration & comment. If so then ´sevices to mountaineering´ could seem a little presumptious by some.
In reply to Jules King:
Confidentiality my dear fellow does not mean discussions with Management Committees with minutes being taken. As I posted, "There is a great deal of confidentiality involved, so don't expect a BMC comment about their involvement".
My 'services to mountaineering' maybe different to your 'services to mountaineering' or anybody else's as it should be.
> (In reply to Norrie Muir)
>
> I am prepared to be corrected on this but I think this was discussed at the BMC ManCom post the announcment as no one from the BMC was contacted for the national body´s consideration & comment. If so then ´sevices to mountaineering´ could seem a little presumptious by some.
>
> I am prepared to be corrected on this but I think this was discussed at the BMC ManCom post the announcment as no one from the BMC was contacted for the national body´s consideration & comment. If so then ´sevices to mountaineering´ could seem a little presumptious by some.
Confidentiality my dear fellow does not mean discussions with Management Committees with minutes being taken. As I posted, "There is a great deal of confidentiality involved, so don't expect a BMC comment about their involvement".
My 'services to mountaineering' maybe different to your 'services to mountaineering' or anybody else's as it should be.
In reply to Norrie Muir:
Norrie, my dear fellow, read the post. I said there was suprise POST the announcement. I recall that neither the President, CEO, VPs or any Exec appeared to know anything. Now I'll be the first to agree that what is done in the BMC and said in the BMC are sometimes not the same thing, however how can any award be by consulation with the "National representative body" if only one or two persons within are consulted? There are mechanisms for closed converstaions at ManCom (now National Council) or easier still at Exec if needed. No closed conversation was held to my knoweledge.
>My 'services to mountaineering' maybe different to your 'services to mountaineering' or anybody else's as it should be.
Sorry but i don't agree, it should not be. Some form of consensus should be reached. How does one maintain a standard for assessing 'services to' over time if awards are given on the arbitary recomendation of one or two persons passing through such orgainsations or worse still anyone deemed worthy of comment at any given time?
Norrie, my dear fellow, read the post. I said there was suprise POST the announcement. I recall that neither the President, CEO, VPs or any Exec appeared to know anything. Now I'll be the first to agree that what is done in the BMC and said in the BMC are sometimes not the same thing, however how can any award be by consulation with the "National representative body" if only one or two persons within are consulted? There are mechanisms for closed converstaions at ManCom (now National Council) or easier still at Exec if needed. No closed conversation was held to my knoweledge.
>My 'services to mountaineering' maybe different to your 'services to mountaineering' or anybody else's as it should be.
Sorry but i don't agree, it should not be. Some form of consensus should be reached. How does one maintain a standard for assessing 'services to' over time if awards are given on the arbitary recomendation of one or two persons passing through such orgainsations or worse still anyone deemed worthy of comment at any given time?
In reply to Jules King:
Whatever.
> (In reply to Norrie Muir)
>
> Norrie, my dear fellow, read the post. I said there was suprise POST the announcement. I recall that neither the President, CEO, VPs or any Exec appeared to know anything. Now I'll be the first to agree that what is done in the BMC and said in the BMC are sometimes not the same thing, however how can any award be by consulation with the "National representative body" if only one or two persons within are consulted? There are mechanisms for closed converstaions at ManCom (now National Council) or easier still at Exec if needed. No closed conversation was held to my knoweledge.
>
> >My 'services to mountaineering' maybe different to your 'services to mountaineering' or anybody else's as it should be.
>
> Sorry but i don't agree, it should not be. Some form of consensus should be reached. How does one maintain a standard for assessing 'services to' over time if awards are given on the arbitary recomendation of one or two persons passing through such orgainsations or worse still anyone deemed worthy of comment at any given time?
>
> Norrie, my dear fellow, read the post. I said there was suprise POST the announcement. I recall that neither the President, CEO, VPs or any Exec appeared to know anything. Now I'll be the first to agree that what is done in the BMC and said in the BMC are sometimes not the same thing, however how can any award be by consulation with the "National representative body" if only one or two persons within are consulted? There are mechanisms for closed converstaions at ManCom (now National Council) or easier still at Exec if needed. No closed conversation was held to my knoweledge.
>
> >My 'services to mountaineering' maybe different to your 'services to mountaineering' or anybody else's as it should be.
>
> Sorry but i don't agree, it should not be. Some form of consensus should be reached. How does one maintain a standard for assessing 'services to' over time if awards are given on the arbitary recomendation of one or two persons passing through such orgainsations or worse still anyone deemed worthy of comment at any given time?
Whatever.
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