UKC

well do ya? never/ always? before? after? if only?

preferences?

coming from the land of the long white cloud and all...

i was always a before kind of a guy, followed by during but now more often its after

In reply to edn: I can't understand why anyone would want to take drugs before or during climbing. Please explain.

In reply to edn:

I soloed my hardest route at the time stoned out of my box. Wouldn't touch it climbing with others though.

In reply to bomb:


Still F*cking stupid, someone would have to rescue/collect your broken bones from the crag, wouldn't be overly impressed telling them you called them out coz you were stoned!
Drugs in sport eh?, everywhere, even the so called purest of them all.

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy:Recreational drug use is pure escapism. Some say the same about climbing and mountaineering. However, I would strongly disagree; getting out onto the hills and crags is about as real as it gets. I don't understand why someone would need to take drugs to enhance their experience.

It makes me wonder if those that do are empty headed. If one can't get their rocks off naturaly in our wonderful upland areas then I think there is something wrong with them.

In reply to Nicholas Livesey:
nicoteen and caffeine are drugs do you also look down on people doing that whilst walking/climbing.

What about having a drink afterwards?

Personally can't see the harm in smoking pot in moderation. Every day is certaining a bad thing though and totally different. Not that I smoke it myself now a daze.

In reply to CurlyStevo: Climbing while off your face is stupid and in my books only a complete dick-ed would do it. People dedicated to spending time to head out and rescue people don't deserve to be picking up people who are stoned, it's disrespectful and out of order.
I see nothing wrong with a spliff in the evening or when not climbing, I couldn't care less, but while climbing? Nah!

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy:
I wouldn't have anyone belaying me whilst stoned/drunk that's for sure

In reply to CurlyStevo: There's nothing like a pedant is there?
For what it's worth I smoke (nicoteen) like a chimney and drink like a fish (and no, I don't think it is clever). I smoke on the hill but would never, ever dream of drinking alchohol or taking any kind of mind expanding drugs while climbing.

Also, if people want to take a bit of what they fancy or have a drink after coming off the hill then that is up to them. However, I would advise anyone to steer clear of class A,B or C drugs in terms of recreation.

Getting out there and doing things is a better buzz than any drug.

My question to the OP is why would you want to mix the two?

In reply to Nicholas Livesey:

I'm not actually sure what is what these days, they keep changing them around. What would canabis be these days, b or c?
Or is that E they keep changing? I dunno!!

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy: I know what you're saying as I'm a little out of touch with the classifications, but I think dope was downgraded to C, though I could be wrong.

In reply to edn: I've climbed stoned before its kind of cool but not for anything serious, just pottering about on easy climbs.

In reply to Nicholas Livesey:
I agree entirely, I think it shows the difference in people in general, what we want out of the experience.

In reply to edn: I was once belayed on something I found a bit tough (E1 ish) by someone who was still half-cut from the night before. not very conducive to a good pitch.

In reply to edn: "best-known for soloing Coronation Street back in the 'seventies out of my skull on coke and speed, and also as a writer..."
Great essay by Jim Perrin.

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy:


That's my thinking too. I see it as a perversion.

In reply to edn: perversion eh... now we are getting somewhere... do you alsdo find big scary monsters under your bed at night?

In reply to edn: I would like to know what you get out of it that you can't without, why it enhances an already pretty adrenaline filled experience.
What is your preference?

In reply to edn: To go into unimaginably beautiful landscapes, climb steep rocks and still feel the need to take mind altering substances is perverted.

What I get from the mountains and crags is enough to satisfy me, and sometimes it's almost too much to cope with. The beauty, the freedom, the endorphins, the danger, the challenge, the comraderie...why would anyone need anything more?

In reply to Nicholas Livesey: because it was there

In reply to edn: i hope all drug users other than medical eat shit and die painfully make my day bunch of tossen losers F*@K off and die the lot of you

In reply to edn: Yep, right on brother. I love a bit of authentic gibberish.

In reply to Eban: I personally wouldn't put it quite that strongly....

In reply to edn: goodness eban sounds like you need to get outside and find yourself, go climbing, chill, romp in the wilderness, have a cuppa and stop being such a bigot... its worse then drugs

In reply to edn: i am outside all the time enjoying climbing all fell walk with my partner thats all the the drugs i need

In reply to Eban: thats splendid then , so why are you here?

In reply to edn: knew some one would pick up on that, car is being fixed pick up later 2day ready to be out 2moro... when you have lost a mate because of drugs you might feel the same way waste of life!!!

In reply to Eban:

WOW Eban, sounds like you need a spliff mate, chill, noone kicked your dog to death!

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy:



That or some quality MDMA...............

In reply to Eban: just like a car crash mate, careful out there, deads dead

In reply to Eban:

i'd have thought the last thing you would be wishing on others is death then?
My uncle drank himself to death, should I wish death upon you because you like the occasional pint?

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy: i love these forums---- way to pick me car up bye 4 now have a nice day

In reply to Eban:

Says on your profile that you regularly take drugs, make your mind up FFS.

In reply to Eban: Hey, calm down! Your profile mentions high blood pressure...

In reply to edn:

I really don't see what the problem is, we're all grown ups and can make our own minds up about what we can and can't do.

Hands up who hasn't done anything stupid and risky when pissed.

In reply to Mooncat: It's not the drug taking that's the issue, it's doing it while climbing. Having to rely on certain sevices to get you out of trouble. Would you not agree you would feel a complete loser, be a complete loser if this happened and you were found to be off your face?
No ones saying don't do drugs, well I'm not, couldn't give a toss, and I'd probably have very few friends if I felt like Eban.

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy:

Depends on what drug though doesn't it, if you're hallucinating, stoned out of your mind on weed, pissed as a fart or you're a custard gannet then you deserve all you get if you decide to climb in this state.

In reply to Mooncat: That was my understanding of what the thread was about.

In reply to edn: You should dig out some old Jim Perrin articles, it is also in one of his books, can't remember which one.

Find an article called 'Street Illegal', it recalls the time he soloed coronation street in avon gorge, i think whilst on a mixture of cocaine and anpheatmine.

In reply to graham F: no wonder!! lets keep climbing a pure sport not having to rely on drugs etc passion is what should drive all of us to climb could go on but not going to bother away to take my blood pressure tablets before i xplode Agggrrrrr

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy: I do see where you are coming from but couldn't the same be said of soloing or in fact climbing.

In reply to Mooncat: make my mind up ? i take them for medical reasons they don,t impair my ablity to climb but to take drugs or drink that can impair ones climbing is just crazy i get a buzz from climbing i don,t needs drugs to enhance it climbing is calculated risk taking drugs that can impair climbing is asking for it
do you drink and drive?

In reply to edn:
Rumour has it that Hubble's first two ascents were speed induced...

In reply to Eban:

you can calculate the risk of climbing whilst high, its just best to calculate that risk before you take them. I don't think you'll find much mention of people climbing on ketamine! but I know of a few people who have climbed quite serious routes on acid. Personally I don't think i'd fancy that. Check the essentials for bouldering list on ukbouldering. Obviously you can't climb highballs without white powder, you're hands would get sweaty.
p

In reply to Nicholas Livesey:
drugs can make your unimaginable landscapes a profound reality

In reply to tom r:

No I don't think so, the services are there to assist genuine enthusiasts and those who take an interest in the outdoors, not drug fueled nutters who can't think ahead enough to be responsible for own actions and for any possible outcome.
I know I wouldn't beable to show my face again if I was rescued and found out to be off my face on anything. Infact I think anyone calling for emergency services in those circumstances would be almost outcast anyway.
Apart from all that, drugs belong in the urban community, not fresh air while doing one of the purest of pure sports, seems pointless to me, but as I said earlier, we are all different and require different things from climbing. I just know if I had to go rescue someone who was stoned and had broken both ankles, I'd be inclined to make the trip to the hospital as uncomfortable as possible.
Do you not agree?

In reply to Eban:

Yes I do drink and drive, why is this relevant though?

You sound as though you really need those blood pressure tablets, take some weed and chill.

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy:

I have seen many climbers here in Europe have a smoke before they climb, I would not call them drug fueled nutters! its just freedom of choice..

I am sure if they had an accident people would rush them to help just the same as none dope smoking climbers!

Sam

In reply to edn:

Drugs is for t'dancing, not for t'climbing.

Think on.

In reply to Tufas Mum:

I was originally refering to 'soloing' while stoned, but infact it probably applies to most aspects of climbing if not all, imo.
Being where you are people rarely walk further than 5mtrs from the side of the road (slight exageration) to get to a crag so not really what I was talking about. Anyone falls where you are (mainly sport anyway, yes? so unlikely), if you don't land on a car you will be pretty close to one to get you to hospital, so completely up to them if they have mates around to get them to hospital.

My point is if I was a volunteer and was called out into the mountains to the back end of beyond (or anywhere come to think of it)in the middle of the night because some dick head had a fall and not returned only to get to him and find a huge bong at the bottom of the crag, I wouldn't feel the need to make his trip to hospital all that comfortable.

In reply to Mooncat: OK, no weed but chilled now
see ya

In reply to Mooncat: if you drink and drive you are an idiot

In reply to Anonymous:

You are talking out of your arse. Utter bullshit.

What a spanner

In reply to icnoble:

Then I am an idiot, but I find dehydration a problem if I don't.

In reply to icnoble: well said i second that

In reply to Mooncat: clever

Comes a point in where people who have nothing interesting to say need so much not to be wrong they begin to look rather silly.

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy: yes getting very bored with this topic now watching hard XS then the boxing see ya,s

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy:

Can you translate into English please?

In reply to Mooncat:

I'm sure you can work it out if you try hard enough.

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy:

No, I understand each word individually, but it's ambiguous in so many ways.

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy: I figured it out....took a while though.

Anyhow, I could be wrong but the OP has yet to explain the illicit self medication while climbing and the benefits therein question.

In reply to Nicholas Livesey:

I've been wondering that also, I'm sure I asked up there somewhere. Seems strange to start off a thread and then have no input or opinion.

In reply to Nicholas Livesey:

Theres definitely a range of levels in climbing

1. alcohol - taking a few beers to the crag. I've bouldered with a bottle of red next to the mat and its great fun.
2. weed - plenty do it
3. beta blockers - rumoured to help you keep calm on death routes
4. anti depressants - might as well be sedated whilst climbing with a lovely prescription dont care attitude
5. speed/coke - plenty of stories, would probably help the one arm pull ups too
6. acid - heard plenty of stories but just sounds scary to me

any others to add to the list?
p

In reply to Hotbad Peteel: Climbing while on LSD just sounds absolutely terrifying and probably one of the most dangerous combinations you could ever put together. Christ, that would be more of a punishment than a pleasure, althoughmodern LSD is pretty shit so maybe quite possible.

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy: In my experience acid was terrifying withought any climbing involved.

Just sitting in a room was a horrendous ordeal that strangely I felt the need to repeat more times than I care to remember.

In reply to Nicholas Livesey: i guess that part of my point is that drugs are pretty pervasive in our societys..booze, pot, whatever... climbers being a part of the said societys i wondered how many/any took their pleasures together?

interesting to hear from the anti drug crowd wishing death on those that do..thanks eban, keep taking your medication mate

also interesting to hear the 'irresponsible, accident, rescue drama epic, shame stuff... sounds a lot like the non climbing world talking about climbers dont you think?

In reply to edn:

I have a story. It doesn't stand up to scrutiny to the judgmental scientific ethic brigade, and I'm not proud of it, but here goes.

I used to take a lot of drugs. It was part of the culture, and as youths our self-awareness was less fully developed to see any harm. When we gigged or toured, drugs and drink always played a big part in our relaxation and preparation. I always had a soft spot for sport though, having displayed a talent as a kid I used to genuinely enjoy certain sports, and in order to continue to participate in certain sports I needed to keep my fitness to some reasonable level; so eventually, as much as I hated the idea, running became a very important outlet for me.

But getting organised to fit in a run around hectic schedules was often tricky, and getting motivated to actually drag myself into a sweat was difficult. I found it easier to smoke a reefer to help me get started. Not only did it become a habit, but it also helped me through the pain barriers, so that by the time I was ready to stop, give-up, start walking, the feeling kept me plodding, working through the out of breath pockets of each run to find a rhythm that worked. Needless to say it became easy to exert myself physically whist very stoned - like a zen state in which I could tell my legs and lungs to work harder occasionally.

When climbing came along it was a fun pastime, an extension to my enjoyment of sport, and as you can imagine I continued to prepare myself and relax for climbing through the use of marijuana. By that time my use of other narcotics and booze had receded to treat status, and so my initial top-roping and seconding excursions were always accompanied by the weed.

My first lead was delivered by some amazing skunk, which was new to me at the time, and I navigated my way through those initial steps of putting myself into places that instinct told me I shouldn't with a smile on my face, and a naiive ignorance of things that could happen that could render the situation dangerous. As a control, a few straight friends took up climbing at a similar time, and experinced a great deal more fear than me, finding themselves held back in comparison to my striding through the grades.

My point is that, like running, the zen calmness of 'no thought' seemed a familiar friend that helped me remove my mind from my physicality and to simply point my arms, legs and body in certain directions so that I could move with the rock, to see sequences, to build protective gear systems that worked, and to have a relationship with rock. Meanwhile my mates were hung up on grades, and guidebooks and really didn;t seem to fully understand this wonderful existence that we can have on the rock.

The troll up there on the thread that dismisses drug-taking as missing the point is welcome to his view, but he's a fool.

I see by his grade on his profile that his blind blinkered approach keeps him firmly anchored to the ground in many ways.

In reply to edn:

I don't need drugs to climb but I often need Ibuprofen (proper big 600mg not the silly 400mg ones) to walk down again afterwards. Does that count?

In reply to Anonymous: Which troll would that be?

In reply to Anonymous:

What a peculiar thing to say. Please elaborate.

In reply to Nicholas Livesey:

Did you get out of bed on the wrong side? I feel like that when I haven't been climbing in a while

In reply to nick ingram: Indeed, I haven't been climbing for a while and it is getting on my tits. Lots of scrambling and walking but no climbing.

I usually keep my head down on here, but yesterday I went into rant mode.

generally coffee before and weed after, sometimes a few whiskys. one time i went to the gym stoned and enjoyed it a lot more than i thought i would, and climbed a lot better than i thought i would, but haven't made a habit of it. when drunk or tripping i sometimes act on the urge to climb the nearest tree or building or whatever. i've hurt myself a few times doing this drunk but tripping i've done things i was unable to repeat when i tried them again sober.

In reply to Nicholas Livesey:


No it's escapism, same as drugs. Escape from work, boredom, family and various other pressures of society.


Nothing quite like an exclamation of pure prejudice.

In reply to stp:


Not prejudice, just an opinion. I love getting out into the hills, I hate drugs. For me, going to the hills is to get away from the things that cause many to take drugs in the first place.

In reply to last ascent: 'tripping i've done things i was unable to repeat when i tried them again sober'

Sure you didn't just imagine it?

In reply to edn:

I don't understand that, please explain. If you are talking about my claim that people would look down on anyone who had to call the rescue out after a fall while stoned and climbing then I'd like to know how you feel that is acceptable. Being that even genuine people lost in the hills get a hard time for not reading a map properly. I think off your face qualifies as slightly more stupid. And this is my opinion only, I'm only going off stories of fatalities and my opinion when people have been lost without a map or wrong clothing etc, response tends to be, 'unfortunate and sad but they should have known better the mountains are a dangerous place'. Just turning it around 'unfortunate, but should have known better, climbing while off you face in the mountains is dangerous'. Thats all.
I really want to know why that is acceptable, and why having that opinion qualifies me as a none climber, I'd personally reverse your entire claim. I don't care if people want to climb roadside on drugs, please yourself.

pretty sure. i'm not talking super-human feats or anything, if i spent time working them i'm sure i could do it eventually. this has only happened a couple times, cruising stuff that later seemed at or just beyond my limit.

In reply to edn: Will you answer my question today? You seemed to avoid any reality yesterday while I asked you questions and your opinions.
Well today you appear to have an opinion so can you now explain it to me please?

In reply to edn: When I used to go caving a lot of people would have a few pints beforehand - if they needed rescuing then a lot of the rescuers would be called out from the local pubs, but it was never really a major issue.

In reply to edn:

http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/units/addiction/drugs/mouse.cfm
p

In reply to stp:
I disagree with you, when you are escaping into the hills, you are escaping into the real world, real senses, natural highs. Very little that is natural and real about the senses you feel when stoned, off your face, whatever. Just because you are feeling how you are, does not make it real, your mind is altered unnaturaly. Forced into stimulation.


I do agree it is drug fueled escapism.

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy:

I was going to say more or less the same thing but didn't want waste my breath. Cheers.

In reply to Nicholas Livesey:

Yeh I see your point, I think the OP is a troll anyway, no answers or opinions other than stupid ones, and I've just clicked I've been trying to get answers and opinions from him without thinking how rediculous his last statement was, silly me

In reply to edn: Personally I can't climb for 5h1t even after a few puffs, just get too paranoid about the dangerous situation I'm in. Counter to this, my bro can't climb for 5h1t unless he has had a few puffs. I know of some top climbers (not mentioning names) that smoke pot and a certain brilliant climber was stripped of his X-Games medal after testing positive for cannabis, though can't imagine it gave him an advantage.

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy: you should really get out more ... i have been in a professional alpine rescue service in both hemispheres for over 20 years, over this time i have participated in hundreds of rescues ranging from multi-fatality alpine air accidents to search and rescue, avalanche rescue etc. i am also a search and rescue volunteer and instructor... so get off your little wee high horse about rescue will you!

During all of this time i have attended only 2 accidents involving serious trauma at crags, strangely one was on a day off climbing and working when a friend and i had a wee spot of acid and went swimming near a crag. A botched series of calls between belayer and partner ended badly with one climber auguring into the ground from 15m, fractured/dislocated hip, fractured femur, multiple abrasions, contusions and cuts, the belayer was completely useless being stunned by the sight of his girl splattering at his feet... so my mate and i took over , stabilised the patient, improvised a splint for the fractured femur and established communications with an air ambulance, coordinated the landing, managed the rescue site and evacuation (by this time the large gents from the fire service arrived with 20mm hawser laid ropes and other non-useful items) we also cared for the belayer, organised the return of their vehicle and equipment and made a formal report for the police.... we were later commended for our response and thanked by the pair involved..

my point is that drugs may change your perception but that dosnt mean you cant react appropriately to difficult situations, just as not all amphetamine users become psychotic not all drug users will behave less carefully at the crag

I am not attempting to excuse or rationalise behaviour that you may personally find distasteful
you obviously have a strong opinion about the use of drugs, fair enough

perhaps you could display a little more understanding of those who choose a different point of view?

In reply to edn:

youre posting at 4:07 am.

In reply to Ste Brom: so what sre you doing up? Just maybe I'm on the other side of the world ..

In reply to edn: ill take a guess and say your not.

In reply to Ste Brom:

Oh - you are so wrong

Goodie - a decent thread! Now where is Adrian???

In reply to edn: I have nothing against soft recreational drugs but personally don't take any. That said in the same way that I wouldn't climb with anyone drunk I wouldn't climb with anyone stoned.

If you need to be stoned to climb then your just missing out on the real experience, imo.

In reply to julianwedd:

Julian, it's equally interesting to see people making assumptions. I can only speak for myself but I have more experience of drug use than the majority of people.

In reply to Nicholas Livesey:

are you like one of those ex smokers?

In reply to johnj: Yes, I suppose I am. A reformed addict, a right pain in the arse.

In reply to Nicholas Livesey: I wouldn't have ever called my self a drug addict, i just did as much as whatever i could get my hands on to expand my tiny little mind...

In reply to edn:
iu do smoke pot before during and after sometimes i recently went away on a course where i couldnt smoke and climb no differenly not stoned compared to the day after stoned outta my tree same grades same mind set and nothing dangerous all depends on a persons tolerance to drugs what ok for one person good blow another persons mind

In reply to edn:

Hmmn... a lot of strong opinions here! **grins**.

My view is that if somone wants to climb stoned/tripping/speeding/etc it is entirely up to them.

I would not want to do something requiring co-ordination and balance whilst taking something which messes with perceptions, but that's my view. I'd also refuse to let someone belay me if they were in that condition.

If someone fell off whilst tripping I'd have exactly the same view of them as of a punter being rescued for wearing inappropriate clothing on a mountain - that they were a bit/fairly/very silly but not so silly that I feel they deserve not to be rescued and, hence, a possible death sentence.

Like others have said, though, let the person who has never done anything a bit daft whilst pissed/stoned/etc cast the first stone...

Only experience of climbing stoned was end of a good day at Froggatt once. Soloed Nursery slab in trainers. Got well scared. Didn't do it again.

All you crazy kids out there, be careful!

In reply to John_Hat: spot on

In reply to everyone: Basically.... do what the f*ck you want. If the people you climb with don't appreciate what your doing while climbing then I'm sure they'll say so, or they shouldn't be away from the car park crags.
On occasion a joint can be very useful on a climb, same way as someone half way up a multi-pitch route might reach for a swig of a hipflask thinking, "maybe I should stop climbing on things this crazy, but jesus that's some view" People climb for enjoyment, same as taking any drug be it alcohol etc. So if I want to solo the side of your gran's house bolock naked smoking crack with my dick painted blue and feathers sticking out out my arse then I shall do so quiet happy knowing there are such liberal thinking climbers in this country. My advice, roll up a fat one and climb something easy just for the banter but most of all enjoy the rocks f*ckers.

In reply to belaying_for_soup:



I like not being dead/ in a wheelchair, and I'd rather not see my partner die/ sustain a lifechanging physical trauma.

Ergo, no one on drugs is ever going to climb with me.

In reply to belaying_for_soup: amen

In reply to edn:

I don't like to mix my rituals too much. I like a clear head for climbing and have found that I need a good few weeks off the refer to climb as well as I would like. I would nevr climb intoxicated, but when all said and done, bad hangovers are really the killer.

How many of us have struggled up to a crag sweating out the lager form the night before and found ourselves stumbling over rocks?

Not good, I like my beers after climbing these days too. Days on the crag are too precious to spoil with a hangover or even a shandangover for that matter.

Fex.

In reply to johnj:

pmsl

Snap, although when climbing a nice fat one is as much as I'll dabble with, upon occassion.

In reply to julianwedd:

You are so far from the truth there. Having recovered and been clean from an extremely serious and life altering smack and coke addiction since 94 after many years of cocktail recreational drug abuse (and quite open in the right circumstances about it) I find myself in quite a solid standing to beable to have a reasonable opinion about drug taking/abuse/dependants/recreation having spent many years around it.
I'm finding that alot of peoples opinions on here quite funny, although you are entirely entitled to your opinion and do what you want, I stated that all along. I've pointed out a few points, thats all. And just because a certain person who claims to have worked for Alpine rescue seems to go about his job in an uncoordinated and smokescreened manner does not make it acceptable in my view, we have fools in all aspects of life, I know, I've been one trying to convince myself I was fine while doing the strangest of things. Anyone feeling that judgement, movement and a whole lot of other senses are not distorted while your brain is distorted is stupid and should learn about how individual drugs control the brain (although I'm sure you feel you are the one in control, it's part of the illusion) and then tell me you are as in control and responsible.
Seems you feel I'm opinionated (wouldn't be much of a forum if we weren't), just coz i've seen many people who've jumped off buildings, walked off bridges, infront of cars set themselves on fire in tents etc (god knows what else) now bound to wheelchairs or whatever.
Do what you want, but know what your talking about when you try to tell me relying on others in a mountain environment while off your face is acceptable, and if you still feel it is then you obviously have a completely different grip on what it's all about and are rather more selfish than alot of us.

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy: I had a feeling that you knew what you were talking about.

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy:

In your closing sentence could you not substitute "relying on others in a mountain environment while off your face" with "relying on others in any environment while off your face"?

I don't see why you need to place a particular geographical location on this. Expecting others to take responsibility for your own actions (i.e. taking care of you when your 'experimentation' goes wrong) is the irresponsible part of taking drugs.

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy:

Well said Mo. I feel your pain.

In reply to slacky: A couple of years ago me mate came round on Sunday morning after a all nighter probably had done more than the average bear, we decided to go to wales, the quarries, took another mate who had seconded the odd route before this.

On the way up in the car he drank a bottle of wine, so when we got to the route he wanted to do, it was Californian arete, effectively a solo, he climbed this rote so eaisely, but then he is something of a legend. I was the most worried out of anyone, all i was thinking was where i could run across the boulders on to take the slack to stop him decking out if he slipped

The other side of the coin i had a completely straight and sober mate not take some rope in as he froze when i fell off, he could have stopped me decking but he didn't. My mistake though, which broke several ribs

In reply to johnj:

I passed my driving test on the second day of a massive trip. One minor fault! Beat that!

Fex.

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy:

Doesn't sound like you know the meaning of recreational to me mate.

Fex.

In reply to Fex Wazner:

I'm fine with that although,
<cocktail recreational drugs!> whats different from that and you taking a driving test on LSD and then having a spliff to ease the come down?

In reply to Fex Wazner:

A recreation is something done in your own time, when you feel like it. It can be daily, weekly, monthly whatever. Fair enough I did end up with a serious addiction after years of recreational use of lighter drugs, i found it easy to slip into unfortunately.

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy:

Why do you think it was LSD?

It was actually about 200grams of dried nutmeg taekn the night before. Talk about being off your face! I asked to read the numberplate after the test pretending I had something in my eye.

Fex.

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy:

My little bro is coming to that age and I would take a hard line against him doing anything i have done. I feel like such a tit, but I have never told him anything about that ethereal world that's out there and burdened him with all my truth and righteousness. To me it would be as dangerous to suggest a path in life than my folks steer one out of complete ignorance.

I consider most party drigs bar H as all in the same ball park, what stops the use being recreational use is when it becomes habitual surely?

Fex.

In reply to Fex Wazner:
I agree entirely, but trying to define the difference between a habbit and a recreation is not 'that' easy for some. As you know it's very normal for people to get ready for a weekend and not feel content until they have scored the drug of choice to go with the weekend release. To me that is habitual.
I don't agree that H is not a good party drug, it may not look a great drug in the hands of a user, but inside that body it's a pretty cool place to be unfortunatley.

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy:

mmm, I can't see too many people thinking that they climb better skagged up to the eye balls.

A good pre climbing few beers and post climbing beers has been a habit of mine for some time now, but as I hope to really get soemwhere with my climbing this year I am even reconsidering that habitual tradition.

I can see how amphetamines can work every now and again with climbing and moutaineering, but hallucinogens and opiates would not seem sensible even to me. Having said that I once had a genuinely amazing day (and night) skiing on mushrooms, every turn produced a huge body orgasm, quite amazing. It was like the warm orgasmic rush of opiates but outdoors and a million times better.

Fex.

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy:
good oh teddy boy, but having been an ex user only makes you an expert in your own addictions, it dosnt give you any moral high ground to judge others does it?
throwing insults around like fools, stupid, trolls, selfish only demonstrates that whilst you have recovered from your addiction you havnt actually learnt anything about the human condition nor much about compassion
i actually feel sorry for you
you "claim" to have seen bridge jumping, building jumping etc.. how sad but why is that relevant to this discussion? Lifes harsh at times, people do all kinds of sad and desperate shit at times and sometimes that is associated with drug use, fair enough so go tell an addiction support group what we already know
i never claimed drug use was acceptable, thats a value judgement best left to individuals in my opinion, i merely proffered the question about drug use and climbing

people are people and so are climbers, some take drugs , some dont and by and large we get along fine, the overwhelming number of accidents in the hills dont involve drug use

statistically its not a safety issue for climbers

the positive reasons that draw you into the hills are universal, you didnt invent an appreciation for nature nor did you invent the good feelings that are associated with climbing, all climbers share those vibes. And neither are you equipped to cast judgement on others who choose to see things differently

so be careful they maybe in your rescue team one day

In reply to Fex Wazner:
You weren't talking about climbing, you mentioned partying. And I can't imagine anyone really believing that they can climb more controlled on anything, or wanting to. Just different people and different appreciation/understanding of climbing/drugs.
Anyway, I'm finished repeating myself, cheers.

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy:

i was trying to get back to the OP.

fex.

In reply to edn:

youtube.com/watch?v=vX1CvW38cHA&

Bill Hicks.

Fex.

In reply to edn:

Where have I claimed that it does, I mearly claimed it gave me a solid standing ground to have an opinion after a statement that I was being over opinionated about something I knew nothing about.


I can assure you I am not alone in thinking a rescue team on drugs would be a little foolish. People thinking that the mind is not forced into reaction while on drugs and claim to know what they are talking about are stupid, a troll is not an insult, look it up, and I will assure you that if you asked anyone who donates to the mountain rescue team if calling out the team to help you when you've broken both your legs because you couldn't judge a move due to above mentioned, they would feel you are a little more selfish than most.


Don't I'm very happy, and without drugs!


I know people in wheelchairs who've had such accidents, I'd be rather unlucky to have seen all that, or maybe you didn't read my post properly, maybe I didn't put it right, whatever.

OK, whatever!

I have nothing against drugs or people, I only have an educated opinion.

No because climbers tend to be a little more clever than that and leave the drugs for the dancing.

I have my opinion and am entitled to that as you are yours.


No thanks, and your missing the point, or making your own up as you go.

Cheers!

In reply to Fex Wazner: lol, classic stuff

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy:

A friend of mine once asked me if I had any acid, I said no, he found some, climbed a tree, fell, is now paralysed from the neck down.

A friend has just died of smoking related cancer - he was 28.

Both nice guys, I just can't work out which one was the more unfortunate.

Fex.

In reply to Fex Wazner:


Both unfortunate, people killing themselves in any way is always unfortunate, isn't it?

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy:

It is, but was one more silly/unlucky than the other?

Fex.

In reply to Nicholas Livesey:

No he's not. Drugs and the outdoors have been associated for centuries. Hallucinogens esp.

Also you would also be amazed how hard it is to get pumped when climbing on e. You can't fall off.

In reply to Fex Wazner: I think you can always argue these things in any way you want. You could say the paralysed friend was lucky to be alive.
As a smoker you are always aware of the consequences, although not immediate.
I think to die from smoking at such a young age is unlucky.

In reply to edn: i smoke every day and dabble occasionaly, but i allways make sure i dont smoke for a couple of days before going to the hills, personaly if it came to it and something turned in to an epic id like to be firing on all cylinders!
just my op

as for people smoking crack or doing lsd well i be quite surprised if they made it to the crag without turning round to get more and also they r not recreational drugs and also i can smoke a joint go see my mates go climbing and they would never twig id been smoking unless i told em and they have no safety issue id be more concern if a partener was hitting the special brew

In reply to Nicholas Livesey: Quote "Julian, it's equally interesting to see people making assumptions. I can only speak for myself but I have more experience of drug use than the majority of people."


And your point is Nick?

In reply to Tim Chappell: and no one as boring as you shall ever climb with me Ever tried soloing an E3 with an arm in plaster? smoke a joint and its a great laugh. seriously man as I said eaarlier, just enjoy what's most important and the point that a lot of you are missing is.... Climbing. but im sure you were climbing naked with me once while you were injecting smack into your balls?

In reply to julianwedd: I really don't care what you do with yourself 'whatever your name is' lol.
Obviously you have yourself in a slightly crazed state. Obviously you thinking that climbing in remote areas is so far from reality that you have managed to contradict yourself without any help from other.
Although I doubt from your post that you are able to work that out. Genius return, lol.

In reply to julianwedd: Quote "(although I'm sure you feel you are the one in control, it's part of the illusion)"

"What the f*ck are you on about mate? You have no idea what I think or feel. Really, what the f*ck are you on about pal?"

actualy being a long time user of many substances i wholy agree with Teddy's comments, when any substance abuse takes place it alters your minds perceptions and inhimbitions,personaly i would prefer it if my self and my climbing team (who ever they are) were all drug free, remember we all play in a potentionaly very unsafe enviroment. its allways best to fully apreceate the gravety of our actions and you cant do that while impaired through drugs or alcohol!

In reply to belaying_for_soup:


You're dead right I'll never climb with you.

If you want to avoid boredom, I just hope you avoid injury; what could be more boring than 3 months in hospital?

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy:

Quote "Obviously you have yourself in a slightly crazed state."

What are you on about pal?

Quote "Obviously you thinking that climbing in remote areas is so far from reality that you have managed to contradict yourself without any help from other"

Now that is truly creative. How the hell did you come up with that?

"Climbing in remote areas." Excuse me but I think your making some unwarrented presumtions. I don't recall mentioning a thing about remote anything.

WTF, you seem demented pal. I am laughing as write this. This is f*cking absurd. WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

In reply to julianwedd:

Try reading your posts back to yourself.
As said I dount you will beable to work that out for yourself.

(Quote)I just laughed when I read all these knobhead rants about being high in the mountains. You f*cking astound me.

You obviously feel climbing in the mountains is strange from that remark.


LOL, how strange, I'm getting the same thought about you.

In reply to julianwedd:

Goodbye, off to calm down are you?
Presume so.

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy: Break out the nutters.
F*ck me, I'm astounded. However, here is my point as clear as I can make it.

My point may be truly unhip, but I had a right rough time on the drugs for about 15 years. Sure, they make you feel great when you take them, and work well in the context of a society that loves instant gratification. Ultimately it's a shallow experience.

The wonderful pursuits of hillwaking and climbing in the mountains has made me realise that drugs are shit in comparison with healthy, wholesome communion with natures challenging masterpieces. Our high places may well have lengthened my life span, but that can never be known.

What a boring old bastard I must be to say that illicit self medication is sorely lacking when compared to scrambing up an airy ridge, climbing trad or walking alone in places where druggies find no need to be.

I say bollocks to the hipsters and piss flaps to being cool.

Drugs are shit but the mountains are wonderful.

I've made my choice and look forward to getting rid of all the negative elements in my life in the hope that I can live longer and enjoy the outdoor experiences that have enriched my life beyond measure.

For me to take drugs on a hill or crag would be to dirty my time there.

Feel free to rip the piss.

In reply to Nicholas Livesey: Do you think in autumn, when the sheep get stoned from munching on the mushrooms they feel dirty, and then get a sudden longing for the sheep dip to clense themselves?

I think they just hunt for more mushrooms as they know the dark winter nights are a coming

In reply to johnj: I know not of how a sheeps mind works. I am a human being and can reason away my desire to get high, and the consequences that follow.

In reply to Nicholas Livesey: They're all different ways to get high, i can barely understand my own mind, let alone judge why one way of getting high is more righteous than another way, it's a beautiful world, which can also be very dangerous, if that path is not for you, that is you're own choice. Same with anybody else.

In reply to johnj: We all have to take our choices in life and deal with the consequences. However, if someone says to me that spending an afternoon smoking dope and playing the Xbox is more righteous than walking up Moel Siabod then I would say that they are nob-endy.

Each to there own of course.

In reply to edn: Jack Osbourne completed a good job on Elcap!!

In reply to edn: I pull like a girl on drugs. Also completely buggers up my trad head. I do enjoy the odd smoke at the end of the day though, a few easy boulder problems, finish off any scran, drink what's left of the tea, enjoy the sunset...

In reply to Nicholas Livesey:
>

lol, you're the only one who's said that one

easy ;^)

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy:


....entitles you to pass profound judgement on someone enjoying a wee dram or spliff while out in the hills or crags of this world?

In reply to David Martin:

entitles you to mis-quote and use out of context...?

I rarely mix recreational stubstances with climbing but on the odd occasion that I have, it has, more often than not, been rewarding.

A case in point is a trip that my friend and I made. We drove down to Pen Trwyn with an open mind, some climbing kit, and a bag of very strong coke. We warmed up on some E2s and then had a big fat line each off the dash of the car. I then roped up to climb 'Norman's Wisdom' an E4. I was leading pretty steady at E2/3 at the time. I tied off the bowline and set off up the route. At 20' or so, above my last clip and with a tricky move to pull off I stopped to wonder whether I was scared. Truth is I didn't know, maybe a bit, maybe not at all. I couldn't fathom it, a curious feeling.

I reached, and with a bit of egging on from my belayer, snagged a crucial hold. Moments later I was refixing my rope at the top, accompanied with a glowing feeling of success. I'd just pulled off my toughest on-site of the season.

After my buddy finished seconding this fine excursion we legged back to our car and racked up another fat line of charlie . With the blood coursing from the recent effort the drug propelled me into an ecstatic mindset.

We decided it would be in both our best interests to have a crack at another route of similar difficulty. Testement E4 was choosen and again I led. After a couple of thin and balancy moves on the crux I had soon topped out and felt great. My pal quickly scampered up the route and we headed home.

Did we do something bad? In my view, no. We enjoyed ourselves and did a few good routes.

That is the only time I've climbed whilst high on a class A substance in 16 years of climbing. It was fun!

On several occasions, once properly warmed up, I have smoked a little skunk during a low intensity bouldering session. In most instances I have felt my body become move fluid and move adaptable at making the required shapes to solve the problem. This is not something I do often, but when I do it is usually rewarding.

I would never advocate that others get high whilst engaging in a potentially risky activity like rock climbing. However, on the few occasions when I have combined the two it has only been after through consideration. If I had had felt the least bit sketchy at anytime I would have not climbed at all or backed off the route/problem I was attempting.

In reply to julianwedd: I remember a wonderful BBC documentary that featured a ringtail lemur getting thoroughly minced on the toxin from a centipede.They aparently know which species to get their little paws on, agitate and lick. The look on its little face tripping it's little furry tits off was priceless......






shame when it got eaten.

In reply to mikepike:

My pet rabbits became hooked on the rotten fruit down the garden. I can't say whether they enjoyed it or not, but it certainly gave them a savage does of the squits.

Fex.

In reply to Tim Chappell:

Three months in hospital without drugs?

In reply to 220bpm:

Betty Ford Clinic?

Fex.

In reply to Fex Wazner: Thank you for proving my point that just because a substance has an effect on an animal it doesnt mean it is necessarily positive for the long-term survival of said animal.

Its all down to Darwinian principles.... the stupid die young. Its wonderful how the gene pool weeds out those that "dont get it". After all climbing off your tits is a really good idea, how many coke-ed up wank**s have i seen kick off fights and get the pasting of their life.I have had more than enough experience of these idiots than i care to mention.....I know where you are going.

Arogance is all part of that wonderful downhill slide, one day you may "get it" after all its cheaper to sell a bit, then.....


see ya in durham nick

In reply to Nicholas Livesey:

Unreal isn't it, I think the point has been made, after all people only tend to talk shite when they have nothing relevant to say.

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy: sorry you just arent cool enough, after all putting a balanced argument from the standpoint of bitter experience just maybe too adult an attitude. It is a shame as sometimes in life it is better to let someone make your mistakes for you and learn....


oh well maybe 18months cuddled up with a big chap inside maybe a great learning curve for our self styled rock and roll heroes.

In reply to David Martin:

Christ you must have been bored to sit and try to figure out how and where you could take my words out of context, then be bothered to try and pass it off. Get a grip, give it a rest or tell me something I 'have' said that isn't a reasonable educated opinion.

In reply to mikepike: lol

In reply to mikepike:

I think life is random enough for people to tempt fate, but not get bitten by it. Just as there are winners and losers, there is good luck and bad luck.

And then there are complete knobbers who want a fight after 8 pints of Stella or whatever.

Fex.

In reply to Fex Wazner: the more ingredients that are thrown into the mix the less you can guarantee.... I can however promise you will get bitten by fate.......casualty or nick two fantastic options.

There are no old coke heads have you ever wondered why?

Maybe its all Karma and fate and luck? Or maybe we know more than you are prepaired to admit to yourself, ignorance is bliss....."chomp"
(that was fate biting you in the arse)


Thats the really shit thing about coke is that people get so selfish when they get busted, they do grass so readily ;0)

Will you cry in the dock?

In reply to mikepike:

Keith Richards? Mind you, the smack probably negated the worst effects of the coke in the early years.

I'd chill out a bit if I were you. Getting so wound up by other people is not good for your health. You'll end up with an ulcer and a heart condition.

In reply to Removed User:

i think it would be quicker to list those rock stars we know who have actually died form taking coke.

fex.

In reply to mikepike:

I think you have mistaken me for some other poster on the forum, you better re-read. I have only talked about taking legally taking drugs in this thread so to accuse me of being a coke dealer seems a bit off. I suppose the ambiguous bit was comparing mushrooms (legal at the time) to H, which although I have never injected street heroin, I have had over 200 injections of various other opiates of wildly differing strengths during several month long stays in hospital.

One thing to note though is that getting caught with personal amounts of class A drugs will rarely get you a custodial sentence.

Fex.

In reply to Removed User: Dont worry i am not wound up, no ulcer or heart condition just mildly amused at darwin in action..... after all if life wasnt so great i would need "recreational pharmeceuticals" im just destined to be uncool, not in a psych ward and not in the northern general.

ps. keith moon, he didnt float too good , well he would have eventuall if they hadnt fished him out.Rock and Roll..... woo hoo.

In reply to Fex Wazner:

None that I can think of that I know for certain. Keith Moon, John Entwhistle?

Mind you there was a guy called Hammy who used to play in a band called the Dansettes in Glasgow in the 80's. He was a regular weekender at the Kingshouse in those days. At the age of 52 he dropped down dead in the middle of a gig. I later learned that Hammy had been snarfing a gramme of speed up his hooter every day of his life for the last 30 years..

Was it in Spinal Tap where some old musician was talking about his fellow band members who had passed away. "Yeah, Ricky died in '68. Choked on vomit. Never did find out who's vomit it was...".

In reply to Fex Wazner:


It is pretty difficult to get put in prison these days. Without violence and large quantities people tend to walk free for the first 2 or 3 offences.
It's a bit backwards bit you've really got to try quite hard to get put in prison for drug offences these days, worse things than drugs going on in society.

. "Yeah, Ricky died in '68. Choked on vomit. Never did find out who's vomit it was...".

"but,you cant fingerprint vomit"

In reply to mikepike:

Sounds like you have the comedown, but without having the party.

Fex.

In reply to Fex Wazner: no comedown...just party, and i can actually remember it. I dont need to hide behind drugs to try and function ;0)

In reply to mikepike:

Mmm, I think you may have a lot of preconceptions going on.

Drugs are bad, um kay?

As to the Darwin thing, I really don't know why you keep referring to a theory that is largely irrelevant in modern life. The idea that you can cheat death and avoid all risk of it by being smarter than the next person is perhaps one of the most arrogant things I have read in these forums.

Maybe you can have obscene levels of arrogance with having to take drugs.

Woo hoo!

Fex.

In reply to Fex Wazner: "watch out for the bus"
"what bus?"
..... splat.


darwin in action

In reply to mikepike:

Unfortunately alcohol damages the memory part of the brain more than most recreational drugs, short term. On the long term, with the use of certain drugs you will lose years of your life even if you can remember the night before in the short term.
I agree that many people hide behind drugs to function at a party, but no more so than those drinking to stimulate themselves, it's just become completely normal and a lifestyle choice many choose and enjoy in moderation, we are always gunna have the exceptions who get well and truely sucked in and end up a mess, look at Amy Winehouse, f*cked up within a year.

In reply to mikepike:

Watch out for crazed axe murder

Splat

Fex.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

climbing is fueled by biological neurochemicals anyway so we're all dope heads if you really look at it.

Off course THC doesn't occur naturally in the human body but many human endorphins and neurochem's responsible for activating the thrill sensation are remarkably similar to illegal street drugs.

Being stoned while bouldering or climbing alone is fair dincum.

Would never advocate altered states while belaying though! Unless in California where it is de rigour ; )

In reply to Fex Wazner:
Having said that I once had a genuinely amazing day (and night) skiing on mushrooms, every turn produced a huge body orgasm, quite amazing. It was like the warm orgasmic rush of opiates but outdoors and a million times better.



did u dry clean your salopettes after that trip : (

In reply to Fex Wazner: hmmmm, we must wonder what led our crazed axe murderer to his disturbed mental state? Expanding the doors of perception, looking out for answers rather than looking inside..... an inability to be happy and deal with reality perhaps?

In reply to mikepike:

I dunno, maybe he was related to your good self?

Fex.

After all my good man you said it .lol
You might not see it yet but when it all goes horribly wrong please dont be bitter. Sometimes in life the bad things that happen can actually be atributed to the descisions we make. Go out there see what happens, just dont be too embarassed when reality bites. Being defensive hints at an underlying denial and thats not freedom in life.some of us have got the t-shirt the hard way. You arent the first and wont be the last... enjoy

In reply to mikepike: boy for someone who enjoys natural highs so much you sure need some cheering up, doooomed dooomed we aqre all doomed why dont you get a sandwhich board and wander down high street?
brighten up son, go for a nice walk outdoors, go climbing

and stop wagging your finger at others, its not polite

In reply to mikepike:

I have had 7 pints of beer this year so far and you think I am going to die of a drug overdose!

I think you are further away from reality in your current state than I will ever be.

Talk to Teddy boy if you want to get high and mighty, or go back to that cave you came from and spend another 9 months in solitude whacking off over that crumpled picture of Margaret Thatcher you cut out of the Daily Mail all those years ago.

Fex.

In reply to edn:

I generally find climbing and the consumption of laxatives to be a poor combination.

In reply to edn:

I think it is battle of the Trolls

Fex.

In reply to Slugain Howff:

How come I always need a giant poo just before comitting myself to a winter climb?

Fex

In reply to Fex Wazner:


And why would that be, because I might disagree with you, because you can't think of anything I have said that isn't true and you so much want me to be wrong and you can justify yourself in your own head?
Coz I sure as hell don't tell anyone what to do, look down on anyone for having an opinion, need to throw silly comments around in anger coz I don't have anything realistic or worthwhile to say.
For gods sakes, try and think of a world where people whos opinions don't sit along side yours.
I think you are mistaking me for someone else who may at some point said don't do drugs. Re read the thread and then tell me something worthwhile, if you have nothing interesting to say I suggest you wind it in and leave my name out of your posts and stop making yourself look rather stupid.

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy:

My God, you are as cracked out as he is!

Why he was pointing at me suggesting that I will die and/or go to jail for coke dealing when I don't even take drugs is ridiculous.

If he wants to have a go at someone, i think you are a better candidate because by the sounds of it you have been there and done it all whereas I most definitely haven't in comparison to your experiences, which you have clearly stated above.

He has very little high ground over me, but by his comments he would most certainly see himslef as far superior to your good self.

Now you re-read and see how you come across.

Fex.

In reply to Fex Wazner: Fair enough, your post came across as if you were saying I had come across as saying I am above people who like to do drugs.
Many appologies Fex.

I doubt he does or he may have said something easy to pick up on on this thread.
We went onto drug dealing, coke users being grass and then rock stars and allsorts within a couple of posts so I was a little confused to what was the issue, who thought what, what was relevant to todays living and who was saying it. Christ that is confused.

Again my appologies for jumping down your post

In reply to Fex Wazner:

Yes Fex,

that just goes to prove that you don't need laxatives if you're climbing. In fact they could be positively harmful to yourself and others.

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy:

Ah, no worries, it's been an emotional thread. It's a topic that I think is more relevant than ever before with the quality and quantity of drugs on the market going upwards and prices coming down, except for weed, fags and booze that is.

It is a subject that people find very difficult to talk about sensibly. It used to be sex, like sex in any form was self indulgent and bad with a capital B. Then the permissive society developed that didn't see it as such a bad thing.

I think society will view drugs more in this light over the coming years, especailly when the children of the nineties become middle aged. yeah a lot of us saw it dabbled, had good times, had bad times, but hopefully future generations may be able to see experimentation more as a stage in life rather than getting all high and mighty and say its the end of life.

Best wishes,

Fex.

In reply to graham F: Yeah a fat line of charlie is worth half a grade!

In reply to Fex Wazner: It's on the turn. I think anyone, even my parents now expect younguns to experiment with drugs to some extent. It is that accepted now (believe me my parents are whiter than white) and I'm not sure its a good thing really.
Price comes down, quality goes all to shit, people are killing themselves on a daily basis now, used to be on the news if we had drug related deaths with teenagers, now it's so normal it isn't. Now we've moved onto shootings and stabbings, all drug related because kids can now get enough money to invest in drugs. When I was a teenager an E would cost £25 and keep e dancing for 2 days and hardly a comedown. Now kids have to take 20 £2.50 E's to get anywhere, shows the quality reduction due to quantity.
It's gone all dirty now and the good old days are long gone, the loved up crazy parties have turned into gangland battlefields and always end in trouble.
I see the government just juggles class B and C drugs around hoping that will make a difference, lol. Today they were talking about upgrading canabis again to B. No wonder people don't know where they stand with weed, I'm sure half the nation thinks it legal to walk around the street with it.
Oh well, crazy life!!!
Peace

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy: crikey you guys sure know how to err 'rave' on.... muhammad mate you swing from self righteous posturing one minute to wise old reformed addict to nostalgic hipster the next... maybe its the drugs

as entertaining as all this might be its covered much better in time magazine and other rags, gangs, drug quality, battlefields etc.. jesus go climbing will you and get outa the ghettos

i am more interested in the relationship between drug use and climbing

isnt this a climbing site??

In reply to edn: what the hell are you guys on about, iv climbed my worst after 2 beers and im no light weight. Iv also climbed on a come down i was climbing a severe and it was hard enough, i was climbing E1 at the time and E4 top rope. Iv stopped taking drugs now they are pointless and really for losers even weed. look at all the druggies here theyr on this forum for ages defending themselves agressively telling people to chill. Obviously feeling the most guilt, you know its wrong, start climbing mountains 4 hours from a hospital without an A&E, youv got to take responsibility ONE slip and you and your belayer are dead on a E4 multipitch. Fulfill your dreams for real, when you smoke pot you are satisfied being bored and have no dreams. Get a real kick and get a life.

In reply to dachiefofdaleaf@hotmail.com: utter and complete shit

In reply to dachiefofdaleaf@hotmail.com:

You may have climbed your worst after beers but others haven't.

To say drugs are for losers is a fairly broad statement that needs some qualifications, especially since drug use is nothing new in civilzation.

One slip on anything and you are often dead. None of the friends of mine that have died in the mountains have died because they have had a toke....

Its just like drinking - thats one of societies more harmful drugs - I suggest you read the Science and Technology Report to the House of Commons - Drug classification making a hash of it particularly the Harm table shown in the links below.

My thinking is that your strongly held opinion is just that, an opinion, and something to be expected from one your age where things are often seen as black and white. There is more to the story than just "drugs are bad" as there is with "our god is the only god so your god is wrong"


http://transform-drugs.blogspot.com/2007/03/lancet-and-drug-harms-missing-b...

In reply to nz Cragrat:


You are lucky then, or have nicer friends than mine

In reply to Bruce Hooker: both

In reply to edn: i made a statement inreaction to this subject at 15.41 on Saturday 2nd February, which i would like to retract and apologize to anyone i affended and it was not ment to sound as bad as it did,(got out wrong side of the bed i think) after much discussion with my dad who is a retired copper my head is a bit clearer every one to thier own just going to chill out and climb.

In reply to Eban: sweet as bro

In reply to edn: cheers you have certainly have made a taking point

In reply to edn:

Erm, thats me, problem with it? I have a life pal and can see all sides to things, it's called lifes experiences broadening the mind.


It certainly is, so think twice about getting involved in or starting a thread about drugs if you can't handle people thinking you are a complete cock for combining the 2 and needing to tell everyone about it. Ranting on and claiming the things you have is nothing short of childish and narrow minded, although you claim to be quite open to opinion you certainly don't come across that way. Grow up and get a life you are boring me.
Cheers,
Mu

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy:

Quote "In reply to edn:

Erm, thats me, problem with it? I have a life pal and can see all sides to things, it's called lifes experiences broadening the mind.


It certainly is, so think twice about getting involved in or starting a thread about drugs if you can't handle people thinking you are a complete cock for combining the 2 and needing to tell everyone about it. Ranting on and claiming the things you have is nothing short of childish and narrow minded, although you claim to be quite open to opinion you certainly don't come across that way. Grow up and get a life you are boring me.
Cheers,
Mu "

OMG here he goes again and again and again and again....... ad nauseum

Quote; "In reply to edn: what the hell are you guys on about, iv climbed my worst after 2 beers and im no light weight. Iv also climbed on a come down i was climbing a severe and it was hard enough, i was climbing E1 at the time and E4 top rope. Iv stopped taking drugs now they are pointless and really for losers even weed. look at all the druggies here theyr on this forum for ages defending themselves agressively telling people to chill. Obviously feeling the most guilt, you know its wrong, start climbing mountains 4 hours from a hospital without an A&E, youv got to take responsibility ONE slip and you and your belayer are dead on a E4 multipitch. Fulfill your dreams for real, when you smoke pot you are satisfied being bored and have no dreams. Get a real kick and get a life."

Amazing the level of intolerance and preaching going on here.

Does avoidance of drugs turn otherwise normal people completely insane? There are some really twisted non-users out there.

I say hang, draw and quarter every individual who has ever considered smoking a cigarette or sniffing the bar maids apron. As for the hard core drug user, what do you all think? Burn them at the stake and feed their progeny to the pigs?

Something on those line should satisfy the rage of the straighties.

This is surely the most hilarious thread ever on this site, hoorah for the druggies. A convincing victory.

Skin up mate, pour us another pint. Sorted for Es n whizz, yeah laffin' mate.

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy: your level of self righteous pomp is now reaching biblical proportions, far from broadening your mind your life experiences have led you to repeatedly displaying a poorly informed, bigoted, arrogance which when combined with your breathtaking lack of literaracy makes for some wildly amusing but somewhat disturbed reading

Despite your enthusiasm for self abuse please dont confuse me with a pal

and if you are bored why not leave and get back to bothering small stuffed animals

randy-teddy?

In reply to edn: and my sincere apologies to any small stuffed animals that may have been offended by my previous post

In reply to edn: <yawn yawn yawn> I think you miss the point of creating a thread on a forum. That combined with your misunderstanding or what you are posting only leads me to the conclusion that my first thoughts were correct, you are a narrow minded fool with little consideration for anything you don't understand, unable to hear about yourself and rather naive.
I'm well and truely bored of you so shall be on my way and leave you to rant on in your own little world.

Cheers

In reply to edn: back in the day, it was just the thing to do a line of speed before a training session at a certain climbing gym. There were a few guys sporting little 'designer' scars on their shoulders after that particularly hard training regime resulted in surgery. Some pretty hard routes put up though.

In reply to edn:
man, i gotta get involved in this one. my 2 favourite subjects; climbing and drugs.
personally, i like them both.
and just as i like different types of climbing i also like dfferent sorts of drugs.
on occasion i mix the two, but not always.
just as i dont climb every day i also dont ingest drugs every day. sometimes i do neither for weeks.
i find, for me, there are times when mind alterers enhance the climbing, and then there are times when it doesnt.
likewise, there are times when climbing enhances the chemical experience.
being high in the mountains an be just as fantastic as not being high out there.
it all depends on your brain.
drugs aint for everyone, just as climbings not for everyone - and just as if you dont climb you cant know, if you dont do chemicals do cant know. simple.
not all drugs are the same of course. thats like saying soloing ice is the same as indoor bouldering. its related, but not the same.
drugs dont make me a ebtter climber, but they dont make me a worse one either.
the two, tho, do make me a better person.
i dont climb recklessly and i dont do chemicals recklessly.
i know my limits with oth, and when to push them, because its my brain, my experience, my life and my responsability - and before it flags, i also do rescue work.
sure, there are some people i would warn off climbing when high. some because of their climbing, not necessarily because of their chemical choices.
and then it depends on the chemical in question. climbing on stimulants and climbing on psychedelics are 2 different experiences and hardly comparable.
ive also climbed a lot in nepal and pakistan and think wed all be surprised by just who likes a reefer or two each eening at base camp.

In reply to ice.solo: Dudes... I never climb and take drugs. Sometimes though I take drugs and climb. Dig?

Too many ignorant f*cks on here, I am talking about the stalwart none users BTW...

I blame climbing walls and corporate team building events.

there are some people getting pretty worked up about this! just out of interest how many people on record have been rescued whilst being stoned/pissed or high? is there any justification to the "uneccessary call outs of rescue teams" argument?

In reply to julianwedd:


Actually, I could almost agree with you there. Cigs are the most pointless drug in existence!

In reply to ice.solo:
Superb and sensible post - the best on this thread.

In reply to ice.solo:
I never understand why people take drugs and then give reasons like, it’s my body, it’s my brain, it’s my chose, but when the sh#t hits the fan, it’s other people that have to pick up the pieces. I’ve worked at highs for many years and climbed for many years and never felt that I needed to take drugs to help me through my life or climbing. Does that make me a stronger willed person? Or are drug users weak of mind and sole? If you need to take drugs to climb, you shouldn’t be on that wall! And no David Hopper, this isn’t the most superb or sensible or even best thread by ice.solo, how can it be? What if a drug taker is acting as an instructor? Can they be trusted to be professional and not be under the influence at work with the public? There are many reasons why drugs and climbing shouldn’t mix. It certainly should never be given a pat on the head.

In reply to mikecopp:
how many people on record have been rescued whilst being stoned/pissed or high?

Exactly - a miniscule amount compared to the pssed up punters the ambulance service regularly deal with I would imagine.

In reply to topout123:

Shouldn't drugs be allowed just for the elite climbers to enable them to push their grades a bit higher though?

Dont really find drugs and climbing mix well in my personal cocktail, but on the rocks both are very fine activities in their own right.....

In reply to edn: Anyone noticed the distinct lack of interest on this thread by women. Funny that!! And the only real bile being vented is by the pro lobby and i must say a truly wonderful example of why drugs are good, especially to all those young climbers who read this site because of a genuine love for a sport.

In reply to Mooncat:

The elite climbers can do as they feel, as long as it doesn't effect other peoples lives. I just don't want drug taking climbers/instructors in the work place thinking it's ok for drugs to be part of the outdoor sceen.

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy: Quote "I'm well and truely bored of you so shall be on my way and leave you to rant on in your own little world."

I do hope you mean that.

In reply to topout123:

But couldn't it be argued that taking speed for example will give an instructor better reactions and be able to take more in thus enabling them to do their job better?

In reply to Mooncat:

Yes, it could be argued...by an idiot.

In reply to Nicholas Livesey:

All I can say is that the modern incarnation of MDMA is pretty good.

Really loving it at the moment, can recommend it to anyone.

Fex.

PS. Don't fancy climbing right now.

In reply to topout123: i dont think anyone is advocating drug taking and guiding/instructing at all... there is a very big difference mixing personal and professional

In reply to edn: My final comment upon this rather amusing thread is that all you boys in the
"we are cool and arent drugs great and we are also gang"

I just wish one day you maybe make some valid comments on CLIMBING the one about "when will they make a screwgate wire crab" was fantastic, i had to laugh.And the prussic one was funny also...brilliant.

(you know who you are ic***lo (i doubt you actually climb);-p although i have noticed you name check a certain climber a lot, are you lovers?

I will now bow out with good grace and allow you all to have your final words. I must say it has been fun and a big thumbs up to all the Ladies on here who even if they do indulge decide bragging isnt the done thing.After all its a bit "playground" isn't it.

bravo.

In reply to mikepike: see la later mikepike maybe we'll sit down one day and have a long yarn about the evolution of the kernmantle rope, or camming angles or spectra vs dyneema, boy that will be exciting! cant hardly wait .... zz

mate it aint about cool vs uncool its just a discussion

any feelings of cool or uncool just come from insecurity

and good work fining a gender angle to... and here i am thinking we were all just climbers... silly me

In reply to mikepike:

Dude, when all is said and done.

My widger is massive

Fex

In reply to edn: i hope you climb better than you discuss, i must say your debating skills are sadly lacking (possibly others as well). I just read the "Acid fiction rescue" honestly where do you get these marvelous tall tales.Irvine Welsh may well be interested in a franchise.....

This is and never has been a serious adult debate, simply kids slinging mud back whenever a rational argument is put forward. There is no gender andgle just a rather glaringly obvious statement of fact i didnt have to look too hard to find.

could i be so bold as to suggest your next discussion could be
"why do some boys think its great to talk about drugs and girls dont have to?"

ps.I think you will be rather relieved to hear i dont thik i want to be your mate if thats all the same...;-p

In reply to mikepike: oh i thought you'd already lost interest, but since your here.. who said it was a serious adult debate? certainly not me.. anyway.. neither was it meant to be a discussion about gender difference, thats something you have introduced.

So bearing that in mind why dont you start another thread about 'why do some boys think its great to talk about drugs and girls dont have to" as you suggest, then you can have lovely long discussions about it. There is probably enough material there for a thesis if your interested? I'm not.

I really dont want to be your mate either, actually one of the reasons i took up climbing was to get away from uptight social commentators and narrow mindedness. My climbing partners range from amateur to professional, old and young, drug users and non drug users, men and women.. quite a diverse bunch actually.

as for fiction, given the rather legally delicate nature of this discussion i wont send you the newspaper clippings, but sadly it was real enough. Believe it or not, i dont care, but if you read the post you'll note that i made a point that you are earnestly striving to miss

If the world that you live in is only populated by non drug using climbers, or girls that use drugs but dont talk about it, or whatever well hooray for you

but for the rest of the world there has long been and always will be a mixing of drugs and some (not all) climbing people, sometimes at partys sometimes at crags.. its a reality.
I completley accept that that may be unpalatable to you and others

Some say drug use is dangerous, well of course it is

Others say climbings dangerous, and it is

some say mixing drugs and climbings dangerous, and they are right

i just asked who did

In reply to edn:

To 'edn',

If you take drugs the day or night before working with the public, it will affect your state of mind the next day. Just as drink would. I've seen it before when working with so called pros. So does it make it now ok to come to work still pi~~ed from the night before, if taking drugs the night before is cool in the climbing world? No matter how you put it 'edn' the personal & professional will meet the next day.

In reply to edn: Personally speaking, I would say the drug users should all climb together, and the non-drug users should climb together.

That way us non-drug users are far safer away from those who:

A. Think it's clever to take drugs (or not as the case might be) but in either case shouldn't be promoting something that ISN'T good.

B. When they get addicted, and act irrationally because they are desperate for another 'fix' again it won't be a problem around the non-drug users amongst us. Same as when some take that overdose and quite likely end up brain damaged as a result (and kiss goodbye to your life) - yes I have seen it, yes I do know better, and yes it does happen, and will happen again for as long as ignorant people go on believing that drug use is a good thing.

And what I mean by kissing goodbye to your life, does not necessarily mean you die, but your life does, if you end up brain damaged and have e.g. 3 children and a wife (and yes I have seen a case just like that, and the guy was only in his 20's).. what a waste, and as we all said, "was it worth it????!"

Criticize this if you wish, I don't personally care what any of you want to think. Like I said, I do know better, and I have seen what happens to those who are ignorant to drug abuse/ use.

In reply to atlantis: that wasn't in reply to edn, or anyone (just to make a point).

In reply to atlantis:

Who said drugs weren't good, they are. People don't repeat the experience because they had a crap time. Some folks run into problems but the vast majority enjoy drugs safely.

You could say that sex wasn't good based on the fact that some folks contract AIDS os syphalis.

In reply to topout123: thanks thats exactly what i meant, if your taking drugs getting pissed (same thing really isnt it?) and them working while your still impaired ... well thats a problem isnt it?

at the risk of over repeating myself and just in case anyone else cant read

i'm not advocating drug use

i'm not saying its cool

but i know some climbers mix it up, just like airplane pilots, bus drivers, doctors, dentists, welders, taxi drivers, butchers ....

In reply to atlantis: ok fair enough so how come the overwhelming majority of all climbing accidents only happen to those who arent using drugs? feel safer now?

you have obviously seen some drug related trauma, me too , i'm absolutely aware of the problems that drug addiction can cause

but believe it or not a great many people use all sorts of drugs including booze, nicotine, pot, e and opthers and are functional, well adjusted and manage to raise familys have careers and occasionally go climbing as well

In reply to edn:

Here here. I am amazed at the prejudice here. I did not expect it from the climbing community.

In reply to Mooncat:

To 'Mooncat'

I really can't belive that you would mean this. If they are the type of person that needs to take drugs to help them work, well kindly leave the room, I say. Would you want a instructor to be in charge of your children or loved ones whilst they are on speed, etc??? Can work and drugs ever really safely go togehter? No has got to be the answer surely!

In reply to ice.solo:spot on

In reply to topout123:

I insist that the instructor takes an appropriate amount and quality of speed before instructing my daughters.

In reply to julianwedd:

I actualy agree with you on that. Climbing is one thing I expect to beable to do and not be around grown men having to hide around corners to roll spliffs like naughty kids, or planning a days climbing with a stop off at the local dealers house, lol seems such an odd defeating purpose to me I have to laugh, sorry.
I suppose it's just modern life, people will take the purity out of anything these days and fair play it's your decision to do so.
I'm not sure that certain people should be claiming to work with the mountain rescue one minute and then boasting about how good drugs are in the mountains the next or with it, I would think alot of young climbers read these threads and may get the wrong end of your argument and think it's is a cool thing to do.
Lets hope they realise that you are a tiny tiny minority within the climbing world who feel need/want to climb while stoned. Notice the lack of women interested in this thread and the majority of those posting about about the great times to be had climbing while on drugs are doing so without a face, profile or any real debating skills along side what they have to say, speaks volumes hopefully.

anyone planning a trip to Dubai?
now that's what i call zero-tolerance!
http://tinyurl.com/ywjhy5

In reply to edn:


Grooverider is currently on holiday in a Dubai jail for a bit of weed and some porn.

Kev

In reply to Anonymous:

That actually sounds fairly moderate compared to some of the people posting on this thread

In reply to hailtryfan: c'mon, jailing somone for being in possession of a poppy-seed bun is hardly morderate, even compared with this site

i used to smoke loads of pot weed and i used 2 take ecstay cocaine drunk all the time but then a very close freind of mine introduced me 2 climbing and since then i stopped everyting there is no greater feeling than being alive at the top of a crag its the adrenalin rush 4 me (im a solo climber) oh and i climbed my first e3 2day yay!!!!!

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy: you complete tool ! the mountains look even better on acid .. ho ho ho

In reply to badder than bolo:

I'm almost sure you are laughing alone 'edn' or 'onemandrugposterboy' as I'm sure your next alias should be.

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy: very good never been accused of being a poster boy .. quite funny from you to be fair .. In all fairness i'd climb with someone who was drunk last of all . would you agree with that .. ? on the otherhand acid can improve your eye sight .. as long as its not too visual ..and gives you more strength too . perhapps one should not make a habbit of doing it though ! however a good sli@@f never hurt anyone .. unless they smoked it in dubai .

In reply to badder than bolo:

Your 12year old mentality is without doubt one that I hope is not shared with many kids of your age.

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy: your view of i can take drugs but anyone else who tries should have their brain cut up into little pieces is slightly Victorian don't you think?

In reply to johnj:

No, try reading the thread, I feel nothing wrong with taking drugs if thats what you like to do. I just feel climbing while high isn't the way my brain or many other people brains work.

In reply to badder than bolo:

Mr fatter than Bolo, you do make me giggle.

Acid improves your eyesight if it's not too visual?

The king of oxymorons.

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy: yes I've already read it and added a few thoughts many many posts above, maybe you missed those bits, till the next time tho mate take it easy, and if you can't take it easy be nice ;_^_)

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy: yes i'm being serious honnest i'm actually 40 hyper fit i mean really totaly hyper super fit and a better climber than yow .. and i know how to have a laugh .. when you reach puberty you'l understand that life is too short to take too seriously . Guess your born with talent or perhaps in your case .... not ..

In reply to thedarb: Thedarb, you're talking my language.
Congrats on the E3.

In reply to johnj: I also feel it's a shame to pretend that something that has eventually began to get people out and about (those who never did before)away from the TV, get the kids camping and climbing etc. then for them to come across a thread like this where people who claim to be rescue workers are on about dropping acid and going climbing etc is a let down for them.
Lets not pretend that drugs and climbing while stoned is something responsible people do and what new commers can expect from those who are supposed to be experienced. Smoke your balls off in the campsite, my issue has never been with that.

In reply to badder than bolo: PMSL. Todgerville.

In reply to Nicholas Livesey:

This is leading me to the thought of a rogue 12 year old (it is edn you know) knowing only what he knows from school. 'hey hey, you see that spaceship, never been able to see that before I took acid'. What a load of shite.

In reply to badder than bolo:

LOL, my case is closed. Are your parents away?

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy: sorry to be so harsh muhammad , i'm sure we could be freinds inspite of our differences , have a good climb if you are this weekend to you and all .keep an open mind always . and smile .!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy: the whole thread is confused due to lots of ranting about confused issues, it it what it is, your last post which you typed in reply to me is nonsensical

In reply to badder than bolo:

Your not harsh, just full of shite. Nothing worth listening to, seems pointless, you haven't answered a single question from the beginning of the thread, only thrown names around when other opinions are put infront of you.
Peace out XX

In reply to johnj: John, why don't you put us all right? We could do with some clarity.

In reply to johnj:

I agree I think we need a clear list of circumstances where drug taking is ok and where it's not.

Persoanlly I think his mind's addled through taking too many drugs.

In reply to johnj: Point being for those new to the sport to read this, think rescue workers go off to the hills to drop acid is not 'that' positive for them, is it?
It has been a struggle to get people out of the house, get fit, get together with the outdoors. Now thay are to give the impression it is no different from salford on a saturady night is a bit shitty!

In reply to Nicholas Livesey:


hello Mate, i only know the same as you, i'm not the judge or jury, I do not have a clue in the eyes of the world what is right or wrong, i only live my life by a code which i feel is right

as always keep roking!!!!

F*ckit, I'm knackered from this shite, can't even string a few words together, lol.

In reply to Mooncat:
>
That is not to say, we only have opinions. No person will change the world on a forum of by having a point to make.


Maybe, I'm happy that i can get on in life without waffling anger and negativity everywhere i stick my views though, does me Mr Mooncat

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy:

Been smoking summat fella?

In reply to Simon22:

Not tonight, although pop round if you fancy a bifta!

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy:


Sorry chief, only touch class A's these days........

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy: before i go tonight i remember your band is coming to Yorkshire in the spring. I'll make sure i come along to see you. When are the dates?

In reply to johnj: check the site.
http://www.myspace.com/clearblueskies

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy: cheers:+) I'll either come to see you at wakey of sheff. Till then, good night, bed time for this callsign

In reply to johnj: Cheers, wear a beanie and get your top off so I can spot you .
Nice one!!

In reply to Simon22:

Glue for me tonight then!! Damn

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy: mazing you came back... you did promise to leave! and now look the whole conversations turned to puerile crap

next time you post at least stop and check it makes sense before you send it

your clearly offended by the very notion of drugs and climbing

Fine

i am delighted you are able to make a decision for yourself

but that dosnt give you the right to demonise others for choosing a different decision

does it?

In reply to edn: Hello 'Badder than Bolo', no it doesn't, and I haven't. I thankyou!

In reply to edn: This is what happens with threads at some point they go off topic whislt Muhammad-the-randy-teddy's views have been rather stronger that most, his contribution to your thread has also been much more relvant than most, i'd like to think on a Friday night we can speak a little 'puerile crap'

cheers

In reply to edn: On numerous occasions i have travelled with my x partner (then partner),family and friends to climb in some beautiful parts of the country. My x was into all sorts of drugs and to be honest he seemed to end up spending most of the holidays watching the inside pf a tansit van (while we climbed and had some of the greatest days ever) best place for him i say boring fooker lol.

In reply to edn:
a few things. i, ice.solo, am female.
id love to know why its automatically decided i am not.
also, i do rescue (not just climbers) and we do occasionally haul someone out who is drug affected. not often, buts not minuscule enough to say it doesnt happen. it does.
not nearly as often as we haul people out with dodgy gear and for plain dumb decisions.
mind you, probably 75% of those who are drug affected are on alcohol.
im not condoning drugs.
i was answering to the initial query about who might and when.
i still stand by my answer that it has everything to do with it being my brain, my body, my choice - just as climbing is. but thats just how i feel about it. i take my own experience over that of 99% of authority.
i dont do every drug because some (like alcohol and pot) dont suit my body and/or brain. just as heroin or too much junk food doesnt either. i am also not a boulder and dont like stuff over about 5000m for the same reasons.
and another thing, i instruct and guide. but not with drugs. no chemical i know of seems to enhance that experience. if it did i might try it.
i dont have to do anything at all combined with drugs. but some things i chose to.
im not an addict. i dont crave fixs. i dont discriminate against others for their chemical choices - tho do for their narrow mindedness. not that non-users of drugs are narrow minded necessarily. but people who without knowing thru experience trying to tell me about myself are. climbers, trippers or otherwise.
and yet another thing. for a few season a few years ago i was with a logistics team facilitating serious climbers in the karakorum. i was lucky enough to meet several high profile elite climbers (of which i will never be one). since then i have also caught up with a few of them elsewhere and had a good time - sometimes involving drugs.
those of us who climb are all aware how climbing is misrepresented in the media in a multitude of ways, how even well informed individuals who have never climbed can have a distorted and hysterical reaction to the idea.
'why would you want to do something so obviously dangerous and irresponsible?' how often have we all be queried? and how often have our explanations gone completely unheard because the questioner has already made up their mind after watching vertical limit and cliffhanger?
of course all this is my opinion. but its kept me healthy and alive and well fed for a good amount of time. i dont rob petrol stations or tell others what to think either.
now, i could be wrong of course, but i reckon lots of climbers that also like drugs would ditch drugs before climbing if the combined effect of the two weren't what they wanted.
but fair enough, people should feel the right to question my integrity for being a drug user. i question the integrity of people who are openly ignorant, racist, boring or of any other trait i dont like.
just dont expect to change me.

In reply to mikepike:
the request was for a 'locking wiregate', not a screwgate, if youd care to check. would be good for ice.
sorry i didnt spell prussik correctly. didnt think it mattered.

why do you doubt i actually climb?
why do you also query my relationship to steve house?

i am happy for you to question whatever aspect of my integrity you want - drugs, climbing, whatever. just please be a little more forthright about it. and do so on a thread maybe more specific to an aspect of climbing you are actually involved in.

isnt any comment made from experience valid?
or only ones made by assumption, mis-quoting, ambiguity, spin and sarcasm?

In reply to Muhammad-the-randy-teddy:
ok i'm at dam work now and sober . 18 mile run this morning climbing tomorrow .. cool.. a message to the kidz . you won't miss what you haven't had so try to avoid drugs and alcohol . if not then take them responsibly . and never take what you can't manage . and most important don't loose your self respect and dignity . Never be pressured into something you don't want to do . but don't listen to gin swigers preaching the anti drugs gospel .. booze is the hardest drug of all they are hypocrites afraid of their own drink problems . be careful before you open pandora's box . I have only respect for people who are t total .. Apart from those who are self righteous opinionated bigots .
The most important thing is that you are open honest kind and have love in your heart ..i believe the truth in this forum which has been a laugh at times will as always be found between the two extremes of for and anti . Live and let live .. Just one thought though , i have never heard anyone being rescued due to taking any party drugs on a hill . Love and peace to the world and may the intolerant people with hate in their hearts be dammned ..

In reply to edn:

I guess many people climb for many different reasons.
Alot of people get very worked up about the issue of drug use while climbing. They seem to wave the "if something goes wrong then mountain rescue/rescue services will be put out to help them" card alot as if they're doing something incredibly wrong.
I'm not going to generalise everyone but if you think back on the climbing you've done, there has probably been a moment, where you where so high up your last runner wouldn't have stopped you decking out, or your protection was so crappy that it would have failed if you did fall, that you decided to push on and make that hard move or climb that few inches to a place for a decent runner when better judgment would have suggested backing off or realising in the first place you might not be up to it.
In this way your the same as drug users who climb, as you risk falling off and being helped out but emergency services just the same.
I'm not trying to stand for drug use and climbing, or am i siding against it. Rock climbing and mountaineering have a interesting niche, there are no rules, just guidelines that we all adhere to, but they still change from person to person. this is was what gives climbing its attraction and freedom

In reply to edn: personally we used to get stoned and go abseiling more than climbing
since i quit weed I've tended to do the opposite and tbh feel 10 times more enjoyment.
not only do you feel better you don't forget the route neither
and can be actually arsed to do more than just scramble round half mashed

In reply to ice.solo: thats been my experience to ... more or less

thanks for the balance

In reply to mlmatt: i agree cheers

In reply to badder than bolo:
nice one b.t.b. cool, informed and positive.
its amazing just how nice some non-drug users can be!
me and the evil gang of 5 chemical users will spare you on our mission to destroy the wholesomeness of society.
cheers too edn.
good job bringing the open minded non-drug users out of the woodwork. the hysterical and ill-informed tend to obscure them at times.

In reply to edn: I notice you are quick to call people a liar to defend yourself this is a sign of utter weakness in an argument and hense you have lost. Sorry mate but you havent been in my shoes or had my life. You do however have the same lack of wisdom that the lazy stoners I grew up with have you wont listen same for muhammed the teddy. Pure and simple pig headed ignorance... Tum ke pas nanachod ma hai. Speak to any Indian or Pakistani it learn what this means it sums up your position entirely. maybe you could learn stuff from REAL meditation unblocking the doors in your mind rather than filling the rooms with smoke and ash. You might reach a true state of enlightenment

guys its all good an well you talking about weed drink ect but i think your all missing an important point, if you could get stonger faster harder, never feel doms the next day after a killer trainning session because after every climbing session you popped a little tub of pills or smacked up on steroids after.... would you do it???? its about the perfomance enhancing drugs- get serious so far climbing has not become riddled with drug problems like cycling (excuse me I mean no offence to any cyclists out there I understand how hard training is for you guys)but perhaps we as climbers are in a unque position as simply taking a ph (perfomance enhancing) drug doesnt help the masses of biological systems that a climber uses, i mean the last climber i heard getting caught out with druggs in his system was chris sharma (and it was weed) he had his medles taken off him and sent packing, so my question is what do you guys thing of ph drugs??

In reply to edn:
personally, never
and i'm not going to tell someone to stop unless i believe they are endangering their lives

but there is no chance i'm going to climb with someone that's not "with it" for what ever reason.

also, telling people to "chill out and have a spliff" is the most enraging and annoying thing anyone could ever say.

What a load of self righteous dickheads!!
It would be infuriating if it wasn't so amusing.

In reply to edn: Never had a problem with people using drugs, legal or otherwise, when climbing or doing other things. Driving excepted, of course, and within reason.
The only thing I'm bothered about is, if they're climbing with me, that they are open about it. I want to be able to make informed judgements, and that might mean doing something other than climbing, if I don't feel confident in the other's frame of mind.

In reply to edn: not done any acid for years but often think it would be wonderfull to just head out into the countryside and trip. trecking thru forests, bit of hill walking that kind of thing.

not sure i would want to climb tho, or hold a rope.

a lot of drugs have a hypnotic quality that allows total imersion in what your doing, lowering inhibitions, making it easier to focus and stay focused.

i can apreciate that people might feel they get more out of the experience for being on drugs, but i guess its down to what kind of experince your looking for.

losers

In reply to Callums dad: Me and some mates once took a boatload of mushrooms and spent the day walking in the Culbin Forest near Nairn. Amazing. Truly, one of the most mnd-blowing experiences I've ever had.