UKC

As it says.

In reply to J1234:

masonic

In reply to J1234: It doesn't matter that it's 'climbing', most are run by 'people who run clubs', they like that sort of thing.
It's useful to be a member if theres a club hut to use.

In reply to J1234:

Red sock ramblers, people with no friends, up-their-own-arse sassenachs who you love to meet late at night in a bothy when they try to grab a whole room for themselves, annoying smug, loud english buffoons who it's an embarrassment to meet in a pub in Saas, busybody loudmouths who try to tell you how to climb a route, the moron who drops a banana skin at the top of a munro cos "it's biodegradable, innit" *




*Disclamer
does not aply to the Creag Dhu, they will kick my ass

In reply to J1234: heterogeneous

In reply to blueshound:

Xenophobicly it would seem.

In reply to J1234:
Depends on the club.
Like pretty much any group, it takes a bit of work to get in with them. Whether it's worth it depends on the people involved and what you're hoping to get out of it.
Clubs change as their membership changes, too (or stagnate if it doesn't).

In reply to J1234: interesting question. i see them as providing a great social scene, like minded people, organisation for trips and a wealth experience that you can't pick up at a wall.

of course in many clubs there are grumbly, ill tempered naysayers who enjoy nothing more than complaining about anything they possibly can. it's easy to spot such people and avoid them, whether they're on the committee or not.

my experience of clubs is very positive, and i commend them all.

i'm assuming that you are excluding university clubs from this?

In reply to J1234:
Same as all things in life, some of its good, some of its not. Try and avoid the bits that come in the not section.

In reply to co1ps:

In my experience climbing clubs are generally run by people who don't want to run clubs.

In reply to J1234: Bearded - including the women.

In reply to J1234:

rich put it more succinctly but I'll try to reinforce the point. Clubs are groups of individuals with a, sometimes vague, common interest. Some members of clubs are tossers some are great people. Some are crap climbers, some are good climbers. Some are new climbers who are liabilities to themselves, some have long and vast experience.

Generalising about clubs and members of clubs is pointless, because they are not general.

I've got that Big Walks book on my shelf, and I've always been struck by the line in it that says "...but on the Saturday, the President decided that conditions were now sufficiently abated for club members to attempt the route". So if you go on a club meet, you can't go out and do something until some bumptious pillock with a silly badge says you can? I mean, what?

I tried getting involved in the Dundee U. club when I arrived in Dundee in '98. What a waste of time that was. After numerous attempts to email the secretary to find out when they met, she finally condescended to reply and tell me the time. So I went to the wall at the time she told me and got lectured by the wall owner for coming at the wrong time, because that was what she'd told me. Eventually I joined them at the wall and was ignored by the rest of the club for the whole of the wall session (so far as I know I was the only new face that evening). Then we went to the pub and they ignored me at the pub (apart from the bit where they took my membership money off me). I tried again the next week, and got ignored again. After that I stopped bothering.

I put a message out to that club looking for partners, and also stuck a piece of paper up in Tiso's asking for partners. Guess which way of getting partners produced exactly none, and which way was still producing phone calls 18 months later...

Conclusion: never bother with a club except to find a group of friends to climb with. And once you've got the group of friends, you don't need the club any more.

But maybe I just got unlucky, and other people have a wonderful time in clubs?

In reply to J1234: fusty

In reply to El Greyo:

What, like people who get voted in as meets secretary, then fortuitously "acquire" cancer and are forced to bugger off home to Essex?

In reply to Tim Chappell:

I don't really do clubs and never really much much liked the clubs I have been members of (University).

I guess the ideal is that you are climbing with a group of mates, some clubs may be like this, many I guess are not.

Anyone with a silly title would set of alarm bells. I have a good friend who is 'President' of very, very minor association at Oxford University, as I say he is a good friends, but he is a complete arse as well most of the time, something I am happy to remind him of.

In reply to Tim Chappell:
There's certainly nothing like that in our club, and I'd have no interest in being part of any club that tried to tell its members what they can and can't do on the hills.
I guess some people do want this sort of thing, and some clubs offer organised group walks and suchlike, but I can't imagine many climbing clubs doing so.
I really like the Ochils MC - it gives me a good circle of partners for climbing and walking, and a lot of them are also good friends.

As an aside to an earlier point, most of the people on the committee would prefer to not be, but have a lot of trouble finding other people to volunteer for the roles.

In reply to Iain Forrest:

Yes, I hear good things of the Ochils MC. And one thing about student clubs is, the turnover's so fast. For all I know the Dundee U. club may be a fine one these days. But it's the only time I've tried to do climbing via a club, and I was very struck by the cliqueyness and the unfriendliness of it all.

In reply to Glyn Jones:

<snigger>

In reply to Tim Chappell:

Yes and yes.

I suspect your mistake was in trying a University club. Real life clubs tend to be a bit better!

In reply to Tim Chappell:
I think all clubs at the very least go through cliquey, unfriendly phases, and I'm not excluding the OMC from that. So much depends on who's there, and what they're aiming to acheive at the time - for example, climbers who have well established partners and lots of specific routes they want to do will generally be less keen to head out with new people than those looking for partners or with few fixed objectives. A club that's very good for established members may sometimes be harder for newcomers to get in with.
As you say, university clubs will probably change even more quickly. They also often have the added problem of large amounts of testosterone coupled with a lot of people with very limited experience!

In reply to hutchm:

That was one of the more inventive, although somewhat extreme, ways to avoid duties I've come across. I have to admit, it's a bloody good excuse. I prefer the tactic of skulking in the corner and hoping no one notices me. That and being crap at organising anything.

In reply to Tim Chappell:

Are you sure that's a serious line? Sounds like the very tongue in cheek, dry humour that used be the norm in climbing literature.


I think you did, and I certainly do in my club.

In reply to Simon Caldwell:

Real life clubs tend to be a bit better!


Do they? I wonder what the SMC, for example, is like these days. I'm not a member or anything, but when you read the history, it's not too encouraging. All this business about founding 'Junior Mountaineering Clubs of Scotland' and the like as ways of producing young climbers who one day may be good enough for the SMC. A touch stuffy, perhaps? A tad patronising?

But then I'm always amazed at how happy our grandfathers and preceding generations were to patronise, and indeed to be patronised. They seem to have had a quite different mentality; deeply conformist, and quite incapable of the thought "WHAT a load of bollocks this is". Whereas the average punter on UKC today hardly has any other thoughts.

In reply to El Greyo:

At least I made an effort with my excuse that time. A little later, after being pressganged into the presidency of some small-town bunch, I simply moved around to the other side of the M25 halfway through the year and didn't leave a number. Worked well.

Not sure I'm president material, really.

In reply to Iain Forrest:
Certainly I'd have had nothing to do with the OMC if it had been like some other people have described. I've never encountered any looking down at people for their differing objectives and abilities. I quite like our club.

There is an odd character but I like his wife and cute baby daughter....

PS That wasn't meant as an attack on the SMC today, BTW. It's a point about the *history* of the SMC.

<visualises himself getting blackballed by eminent climbers in SMC ties>

In reply to J1234:

I don't really have any experience of clubs but would imagine they're self-limiting in terms of actually progressing. The one I know of down here (though it advertises itself as a mountaineering club not strictly a climbing club) doesn't appear from their website to meet very often and not at all over winter. I guess that's down to the need to organise things in advance when many people are involves rather than just taking the opportunities the weather gives - which is the only way to get out in winter. Anyone who's actually interested in improving their climbing will need to get out much more than just club meets, so will have partners to do that with, so will have no need of a club. I guess the main benefit is for people who don't climb much and like the idea of organised trips going to the same locations with a bunch of other people who don't climb much. I can't personally think of anything worse for anyone who really enjoys the climbing side of climbing!

In reply to J1234:

I've always been anti-club after seeing club meets at crags and trying to join the university of sheffield club and getting very scared by the level of safety being displayed at their fresher's meet at the foundry (this was in 1996 so not recent - in fact SCUM doesn't even exist now does it?). I think there is also a strong anti-club feeling in the UK climbing community that works, covertly, to make clubs seem to be stuffy etc and undesirable and I suspect this may have a basis in some truths but has been exagerated and assumed to apply to all clubs when this isn't the case.

However I have been involved with 2 clubs in the last 3 years and regret not being involved before. I have met some good people to get out with (admittedly, outside normal club activities the majority of the time) and made some good friends. So, by joining a club when I moved to a new area I have completely changed my opinion of clubs and think that they can be great.

In reply to Removed User:
What, just the one?

In reply to quadmyre:
It can be a bit of vicious circle - if they don't meet much in the winter, people who want to do stuff in the winter don't join, hence they continue to hibernate.

We have all sorts in our club, from those of us who climb every weekend and during the week too, to non-climbers who go hill walking. So we have organised trips going to the same locations with a bunch of people who do all sorts of different things when they get there. And also disorganised trips on the spur of the moment cos it's just snowed in the Lakes, or is sunny at Stanage.

In short, clubs are what their members make them.

In reply to quadmyre:


I really think you are missing the point here. Clubs provide the framework for meeting new people to get out with. The pub meets are a great time to meet up with people and see who is free at the weekend etc if the weather is looking good. While I accept that some will only climb with the club, most people will organise their own trips with club members unnoffically. This is what clubs are good for in my eyes, with the organised meets being a social occasion as well as a climbing trip.

In reply to Monk:
Precisely. Only a small fraction of the stuff I do with the OMC is done at 'official' meets. Meets are a pretty loose affair anyway - the only thing actually organised by the club is the venue and accommodation (and now and then a meal like the annual Burns Supper).

In reply to Monk:


Ah - from my point of view UKC has that market cornered far more efficiently...

In reply to co1ps:

My thoughts to a T.

In reply to Monk: Aye sounds about right. I've often joined a club when I've moved to a new area. Although they can often take a while to get into if you persevere you will meet great people and get more involved.

I've often not gone on the organised trips but made up my own or gone off with other people but the organised trips are always good fun if not hardcore climbing

It depends on the clubs, some have been quite small and almost operated as a group of friends who go out and have fun another much bigger and found it was easier to get involved predominantly with just the 'climbers' in the club. Although the benefit of a bigger club is you can find people who not only climb but mountain bike, fell run, kayak and so on......

IN short don't be intimidated, just persevere.

In reply to Frodo:

It all sounds like hard work to find a partner though given that you can just post on here and find someone same-day and also get a guide to their experience - the routes they've done - see their attitude from forum posts etc before you commit. Is UKC the nail in the coffin of the traditional climbing club?

In reply to J1234: i'm in a club. Sometimes I climb with them, sometimes I just climb with friends. Depends what the club are doing, and how I feel. I don't think it can ever be a negative thing - if you like the club members, you meet loads of people and get climbing. If they're a bunch of arses, you can just not renew membership. Simple.

I've met loads of good people through the club I'm a member of. And a couple of arseholes too

In reply to J1234:

I tried to join an edinburgh climbing club a few years ago. They wanted me to take a test to prove that I could climb well enough for them and sternly told me that I would be unwelcome if I wanted to learn any new skills because they weren't running a school.

Having seen them since hogging ropes at various climbing walls while braying loudly about their past (and singularly modest) exploits, I can safely say that not joing that club is one of the best things I've ever done as a climber.

In reply to quadmyre:

Yes, but UKC in itself can be a difficult club to get into especially when you are new, I found it almost impenetrable, then I happened to meet a couple of people from here who aren't regular posters, now I have all of my friends, some of them which I have met through climbing clubs. IMO it depends on the club and the individual.

In reply to rginns:

I`m in the same club, when you`ve met me you`ll have met 3.

In reply to niggle:



How familiar does that sound?

"Did you see me on the STEEP section of the Catbells path, though?"

Arf...

In reply to quadmyre: UKC is a useful forum but it can't replce a club.

No weekly pub socials.
Not everyone lives locally to you.
People less likely to take out begineers (not just climbing but mountain biking and kayaking etc too).
Vast experience and knowledge base.
Lifts and fuel sharing for trips.

And as others have said its not all about official tripos and rules. Often I go out with my own friends.

In reply to hutchm:

Good effort, sir. Probably for the best; you would have had to up the ante a bit and I reckon a heart attack or quadraplegia is probably going a bit far.

In reply to quadmyre:

Well, clubs still seem to be around and many are very healthy so I would say not.

But it is horses for courses. I would prefer to meet someone to climb with in a pub or at a wall and talk to them face to face rather than over the tinterweb. You prefer vice versa.

In reply to niggle:

or possibly they politely told you they didn't have the time or resources to teach you the basics, and suggested you go on a climbing course first?

Otherwise, club members would spend all their time teaching people how to climb, and none of their time actually climbing. And then having taken advantage of their free lessons, half the new climbers would then disappear to climb with their mates and not join the club.

In reply to quadmyre:

UKC is a traditional climbing club. The difference is that most of the communication and planning are via the interweb/email rather than by telephone/letter.

In reply to J1234:
clubs definately have pros and cons, the biggest con that I see is that once meets are booked, you loose flexibility - if your in a hut on the west and conditions are pants, but great in the east for example.

that said in our local club, theres a strong climbing contingent who get out a lot or weekends outside of club meets as well, come summer evenings we're out on the local crags - just turn up and climb with who ever else is there. The advent of e-mail makes this kind of thing really easy to organise and adapt to suit the weather!

Theres also a social element to every club, i found it a great way to meet people when I first moved up here. Meeting for a drink during the week etc. A good spread of ages and interests keeps the club interesting - climbers can be a right boring bunch when they get going!!

Some clubs can be really old fashioned, having to attend x many meets in summer and winter and even then you can only join if your proposed, seconded, voted in etc and even then only at their AGM etc. That does annoy me a bit, esp if it means you can only come as a guest and not reserve a place in advance for example.

I don't think that any club now would try and stop you getting out cause the chairman decided weather was too bad, that quote sounds very tounge in cheek to me.

The club I'm a member of has a much more relaxed approach, just come along and you can join on the spot if you want - though we usually suggest folk come on a meet or two, or at least a day walk to see if they're actually going to like the club.

That said I've know some clubs to be very hard to break into the cliches, esp the climbing circles!

Stu

In reply to Simon Caldwell:

And then having taken advantage of their free lessons, half the new climbers would then disappear to climb with their mates and not join the club.

But that's what gets me about clubs-- that they perceive it as a matter of taking advantage and free lessons.

If someone asks me to teach him/ her to climb I won't think I'm being taken advantage of, or giving free lessons. If I've time, I'll say yes, and be happy to 'create' a new potential partner. If I've not got time, I'll say no-- try someone else, or go on a course. But either way, I won't think that there's some entity that the newbie is exploiting just by asking. Clubs are a bad thing precisely insofar as they create that kind of thinking.

In reply to J1234:

Most of the ones I've tried in the last few years have been a waste of time apart from the one I'm presently in, which has worked out fine. You do have to put in some efort yourself though when joining a new club, don't expect people to start running around after you. The point about using it for free climbing lessons is well made, I've trained up people in the past thinking it would lead to a regular partner, only to see them disapear when they improved a bit.

If you just climb for fun and a sociable day out clubs can work out well. Not every climber is intensely focussed on E whatever by the end off the summer. Some of my days out go no further than a brew, bacon butty and a natter but thats still fine.

In reply to Tim Chappell:

What if a dozen people ask you? Two dozen?

In reply to Simon Caldwell:


I'd be really flattered!

In reply to dave wearing:

What's wrong with that?
You only taught them because you expected something else back in return?
If that was the expected arrangement maybe you should have made that clear?

In reply to J1234:

Love their inside jokes
takes effort to "get in with the crowd"
fairly boring
too many red socks
lots of ronhills
and I'm fairly sure they don't drink enough

In reply to J1234:

Surely your perception of clubs will be dependant on your own personality?

I'm simply not a 'joiner' of things, if I were to join any club I just wouldn't enjoy the experience, regardless of how good the club was. Someone more social would probably have a great time.

In reply to J1234: politics politics politics. its a shame we can't just all get on and go climb...

In reply to J1234:

Aye lad, I've been avoiding you !

I like Mr. Wearing's enthusiasm! excellent stuff...

In reply to J1234:
I think they're really horrible, but that's based on one club. I'm probably not the type to go for a club because it tends to be a really cliquey environment and I don't have the time/inclination to persevere and try to break into the clique.

The one I joined was horrendous - I was on the mailing list but that was about it. I went along a few times but hardly anyone spoke to me, and it just was comprised of arduous timeslots where I'd be trying to make friends and failing. I found it pretty inpenetrable and eventually stopped going. I remember one really horrible pub meet where all the girls sat in a corner and gossiped and didn't speak to me at all! I find that odd because in any situation like that, if I saw a girl by herself (or anyone really), I'd make an effort to include them!

I climb with friends - either people who I met through climbing, or friends I've introduced to climbing. It's much more fun as it's people who actually want to be with you - rather than a bunch of people who'd rather not! I'm not saying all climbers are horrible - I've met nice people at the crag, wall and on here - I just think that clubs are a very contrived situation which don't suit everyone.

In reply to Nao:

Snap. And the climbing club I tried to join advertised itself as "the friendliest club in the university". Aren't people odd?

PS I don't think cliquery only happens in clubs, of course. The indoor wall I climb at has a great atmo, on the whole, but there are one or two rather annoyingly up-themselves people there.

You know, the kind who have seen you a thousand times before, and still won't smile, say hello, or otherwise acknowledge your existence unless you climb 7a, and/ or are one of their little friends.

No names, no pack drill

In reply to Tim Chappell:

Clubs usually have a diverse membership. If you go along to a club meet once, it is likely you'll only meet a few people who might not be the ones you naturally gel with. But that's random chance. It doesn't mean that the other 70, 100 whatever members of the club are the same.

In reply to Tim Chappell:

They could be shy. There is a guy who goes to the wall and he is seriously good, and keeps himself to himself and seems a bit stand offish, after over 2 years he`s started letting on to me. He only speaks to people he`s comfortable with, not because he`s an arse but he`s shy.

In reply to Squirrel Bill:
>>I'm fairly sure they don't drink enough

Our lot once got described as "a drinking club with a climbing problem". :

When I was at Uni, the uni club were a pain in the bum. The club I'm currently involved with are the people who, when my partner and I finally got off the hill at around midnight after a minor epic-ette, gave us a round of applause, declared that such exploits were entirely in the tradition of the club, and fed us cake.

Like any other groups of people, clubs have different personalities.

In reply to J1234:


...No, these people aren't shy, so it must be... your other explanation

In reply to Tim Chappell:


[...]


Please avoid the generalisations, Tim.

Beginners coming to a club looking to learn do present some difficulties. Some come along, climb, have a great time, take it up and improve and that is very rewarding. But there are many, unfortunately, who seem to treat it as a 'novelty weekend' and treat you as an unpaid guide. It's very difficult to tell between them and hard not to become cynical when you come across too many of the latter.

I would say most in our club have just the same attitude as you to beginners - 'If I've time, I'll say yes, and be happy to 'create' a new potential partner. If I've not got time, I'll say no-- try someone else, or go on a course.' But, I would ask - not being in a club how often does that happen to you? Outside the club, for me never. In the club, most weeks.

In reply to El Greyo:

Well, those are generalisations too.

I do get people asking me to help them get started, every now and then. I don't think it's very difficult to say no if I don't have the time, or just don't feel like it.

In reply to Ridge:

Hmm, I'd say I'm pretty social - have a wide circle of friends - but I found the club really difficult. Maybe it's more about what your usual social circles are like. My friends are mainly outgoing, sociable, friendly people and I didn't really fit in at the club, which was quite a closed environment. Maybe I just wasn't enough of a 'climber' - but I don't think you can really be like that unless someone takes you under their wing!

There's another club I've come into contact with and I've met quite a lot of their members, but to be honest they all seem a bit weird - quite a lot of social misfits. And the women there were a bit like club trophies - everyone had a go of them! Maybe that's the problem - if you're single, they're probably a good way to meet someone, but if you're not then you probably don't have that same need to fill a gap in your life.

In reply to J1234: The "old" North west leicestershire CC was great in the late 80's. Climb at Moat college then onto the old BT 69 club. That club seems to have petered out since the tower opened. This club was infiltrated by Uni peoples who seemed to take it in a new direction only to dissapear to the uni climbing club. Saying that, the Bowline seem to always have a friendly atmosphere around them.

In reply to J1234:
And Hinckley Mountaineering Club are also very welcoming and very active. I think it probably is very much the luck of the draw where you live as to how good the climbing club is. Same with any club I guess.

In reply to El Greyo:

But isn't that you, judging them as being 'the latter'? Maybe they come along to try it out, and decide it's not to their taste? Does that make them worse people? I think it's this kind of attitude with clubs that puts people off.

IMO clubs should be there to encourage people to try it for free. Actually it irks me that you have to sign up for an expensive course at the wall when someone like me or you could just show them how to do it. I've helped loads of beginners and yes, occasionally I think, oh I could be climbing instead of belaying. But if you aren't encouraging then you're not actually broadening your circle of potential belayers, and the people you interact with don't form a positive opinion of climbing.

Plus it doesn't take much to show someone how to belay, and once they can do that competently, they can belay you! And it's not like you have to climb the same climbs. It's that kind of elitist attitude that means that people are put off joining clubs.

In reply to Nao: I have been in the CC since 1972, plus a couple of local clubs on the way for various reasons. I find some of the views expressed on here to be so wide of the mark as to be laughable, troll like almost, the lack of real perception about clubs and their value (including the BMC) to UK climbing beggars belief.

In reply to Al Evans:

Well, they're valuable politically as pressure/ lobby groups. And they sell insurance, some of them. And they train newbies. And long ago-- not really any more, so far as I can see-- they made climbing affordable for people who otherwise couldn't afford it. But apart from that, what have these Romans ever done for us, eh?

In reply to Nao:

>It's that kind of elitist attitude that means that people are put off joining clubs.

Good grief, Nao, that's the first time I've seen you post drivel. And you usually such a beacon of common sense 'n' all.

Clubs elitist! Full of fat walkers, more like.

jcm

In reply to Al Evans:

The CC's a very different thing from local clubs, Al.

jcm

In reply to Al Evans:

Al - am I right in thinking you live in Spain? So the chances of you having had the same experience as me with the same clubs is... minimal?

Note that I was describing MY experience, and not yours. And I said earlier up the thread that I have met many nice people through climbing - just not through clubs.

In reply to Nao:
Easy to say, but clubs are just the people in them. You're volunteering other people for unpaid work they may not want to do.
Our club, and I suspect most clubs, do encourage people to come along and join in, and most of us are happy to help with this when we don't already have other specific plans.
Also, most of us are not qualified instructors, so we can't 'teach' as such - what if something goes wrong?

I think you're maybe talking about indoor climbing, which really isn't what most clubs are about. It isn't hard to show someone how to belay, but it takes a while to trust someone to belay you if you're worried you might fall off and deck, so you can only really climb routes you're happy to solo when doing this - a bit limiting.
I enjoy helping people try out something new like climbing, but I don't want to spend all my time doing it. However, as others have said, you can always say no.

In reply to Tim Chappell:

Yes of course I had to generalise, but I did put in a 'some' and a 'many', whereas you came across as tarring all clubs and members of clubs with the same brush. I'm sure that wasn't your intention.


Which is probably much the same as most, or at least a significant proportion of climbers. It is just that if you are in a club, the situation arises more often and hence, you have to say no more often.

I don't distinguish between climbers who are members of a club and climbers who aren't. They both have a wide variety of personalities.

In reply to El Greyo:

I suppose what a club can do, that an individual can't, is develop a standard route for newbies to be directed along if they want to learn? By negotiating a bulk discount rate with a course like the COnville winter skills course, I mean.

In reply to J1234: I first joined a climbing club in 1978 with the Ochils MC. It was a good group with some very active climbers in it and we had some great times at the club hut! I used to always join my local climbing club as I moved around the country on short-term contracts. Some, such as Hull, Inverness and Peterborough were really nice. Guildford wasnt, way too cliquey. They are good for climbing partners but so is UKC, if I move again I doubt I'll join another club.

In reply to Nao: Also I doubt if he has tried to join one recently.

Clubs can go through cycles as well depending on who is in them at the time. What was my local club is at the moment going through a bad patch with most members no longer climbing (due to age), no longer living locally. They are trying to recrute members but as most of the existing members only make it to the AGM there is no real point in joining. They used to be very cliquey about who they would invite to join them, but it seems to have backfired on them.

I expect that the club won't be around in a few years time.

In reply to Simon Caldwell:



I was bouldering font 7a+ at the time but was doing relatively little leading because my regular partners had quit/got married/moved away.

Still think I needed to "learn the basics"? They certainly didn't by the time I'd finished their "test".

In reply to Iain Forrest:
Fair enough. I would've thought that club nights were the natural time when newbies would come along to try it out. eg I sometimes go to running club, and everyone there is really friendly and welcoming - nobody looks down on you, or makes you feel like you're holding them up. They take time to show you how to do things.
I guess I look at it like me showing my friends how to do things. It's a shame when people are so scared of litigation that they are afraid to help out new people.

Sorry, sandstone (top-roping!) and sport. I've had unofficial help from people at both (and trad, come to think of it). Nobody acted like they were giving it grudgingly, or worried that they were going to get sued if I fell off. Also I had help from someone from a club when I first started out - but not in a club capacity, just because he's a nice guy (Rob Naylor).

Exactly!

In reply to Nao:

Why? Clubs are there so the members of those clubs can go climbing. It's exactly the view that you expressed which leads clubs to offer no tuition at all, too many people see them as a cheap way of learning and nothing more.

In reply to Nao:

My experience with many UK clubs around the country while I lived in the UK lasted from 1965 until I moved out here to Spain in 2002, I think that is reasonable experience of clubs in the UK. As a member of the CC our hits were often booked by other cubs who had no huts of their own, I have done some wardening of the huts and also seen them in operation when I just happened to be staying at the same hut. I never saw them as anything other than helpful to fellow members. We had an issue with Universtity clubs, but general climbing clubs just seemed good for the members and the sport.

I have only ever encountered one unhelpful and unfriendly club and that was based in Surrey, so I am aware they exist, my climbing partner, a competent woman climber has tried to find partners and contact with them since on more than one occaision, she has now given up trying to break down their insular atitude as a bad job. But that is the only club I have ever come across that is like that in over 40 years of UK climbing.

I am sorry if you have had bad experience with clubs, but I would say that is down to the club and not the fault of the club system.

In reply to ring ouzel: Another plug for the Ochils which I joined when a student as the guys I mostly climbed with (students & uni staff) were also members & it made using the hut easier. That said the club was pretty welcomming & I did after a while climb with some non uni members as well.
Later I 'joined' the Etchachan Club (Aberdeen)which in those days was barely a club, more a group who happened to drink in the same bar with next to no organised meets but very active.

Since then I've not really been a member of any club other then the Club Alpin Francais which is a bit different, more akin to the BMC although the local sections do organise meets.

Like Al, I find some of the 'anti club' sentiment here pretty weird, maybe its an age thing ?

In reply to niggle:

Nope!

Some clubs go in for "tests", we just ask what experience you've got, if you don't have any we recommend a course, otherwise it becomes obvious straight away if you're lying!

In reply to Nao:
Yes, and I think most people aren't. However I think that clubs, as at least slightly more formal bodies, have to give some thought to it - particularly if they advertise for people to come along and try things out.

I don't think we're massively in disagreement - I suspect you've just tried a 'bad' club, a club at a bad time, or just not clicked with them, while I've had the opposite experience. I think there's a problem with expecting clubs to provide free training, though.

In reply to J1234:


Well As the chairman of the SWMC please allow me an arrogant buffoon like comment or two or twenty.....


What we do for our members....
----------------------------

Official Meets :
Provide 2 beginners meets a year.
1 First lead weekend
1 Pembroke Virgins Weekend
1 4 day Lundy trip
1 Rope work and rescue training day
Climbing meet wednesday evening throughout summer
Wall meet weekly throughout winter
1 piss up

Unofficial Meets :
Bulletin Board to organise
Contacts
Partners etc

Framework to Develop up to about E3 and TD

Fun Newsletter 4 times a year

Insurance
Via the BMC ensure all members have 3rd party insurance
Cheap Club BMC membership (Saves a fiver)

Hut :
Cheap accomodation in N Wales

Kids : Weekly Kids section specialising in coaching..

What we provide for the climbing environment and climbers in general
--------------------------------------------------------------------


Gower and South Wales guidebook
New routes on web site
Help in equiping established sports crags
Environmental kitty to help BMC in crag cleanups

Its all voluntary. Everybody gives as well as takes and its great fun!
and its only £12.50 to join.

Its not perfect and the aims are limited. Personally I climb with mates both in and out of the club but I think we're getting there and our 150 or so members seem to enjoy the club and the benefits it brings them.

(www.southwalesmountaineering.org.uk or pm me if you are interested!)

In reply to J1234:

For those who wish to know more, here is a list of threads which include the debate that has gone on since Sept 2000. There are query's about clubs all over the country, what they are for, the good and bad of them and what to do if you find they are cliquish.

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/info/search.php?forum=0&dates=1&na...

Some clubs may seem that way because there are small groups planning their weekend separate from the main club, some are mainly for the members they already have and no attempt is made to get new members. Those end up moribund, and unless they do something about it die off. The major clubs were all like that in the 50s, self satisfied with their membership then they wanted new guides and found they had nobody good enough to climb the routes, so made a bit of effort to get some good climbers in. Now they find the great unwashed are not as bad as they thought, so encourage new blood in now.

Clubs are groups of people, you have to fit in somewhere or go to another one that suits you better. Want to camp in the rain in Wasdale for £8 a night or use a hut for £5 or thereabouts? There are clubs that are crying out for members who will use their huts and go on meets, one right next to a major peak crag that is sadly underused. Once in a club you often have the facility to use other clubs huts as well.

Meets, well look at some of the clubs in the database, peruse their websites and you will find they go all over the country, sharing transport. Never been to Mid Wales, Grey corries, Cornwall, Kinder, Three peaks, meets get everywhere, including the Alps and Himalayas ;

http://www.karabiner.org/weekend/
http://www.rucksackclub.org/meets.php
http://www.climbers-club.co.uk/meets.html
http://www.oread.co.uk/flash/intro.html
http://www.mynydd.org.uk/welcome.htm

search for more here, I am sure most people will find one they like;
http://www.ukclimbing.com/databases/listings/clubs.html

In reply to J1234:
I`ve not really wanted to express any opinions on this thread as I want peoples thoughts, but one thing has struck me, are some people approaching clubs expecting to be treated as a "consumer" when infact the realtionship with a club is not and cannot be like that and is more (i don`t know, can`t put it in words) symbiotic?

In reply to Tim Chappell:

Provided all the initial skill and effort to catalogue climbs for over a century in guidebooks without which the Rockfax guides would not be possible. The RF guides are very good but they are based on what the clubs have done before. They also have catalogued history and given the sport its soul, a thing that most non-club guides do not do even now. They championed access issues before any sort of official body was formed to look at it, they introduced most climbers to the sport up until the advent of indoor walls, even if some of the 'groups' of people were not formalised as clubs are today. Like the Rock and Ice, The Alpha, The Cioch, The Creag Dhu and the Alpine Climbing Group. Sutty will no doubt be able to tell you of how and why groups like the Black and Tans and other co-hesive groups eventually came to be regarded as 'clubs'. I could go on .

In reply to Doug: Hi Doug! I couldnt remember if you were in the club or not (as it were!) when I was there. I always associated you with Tony and Ian and all that 'hard climber' crowd! In those days I was happy to lead VS!

In reply to ring ouzel:
XXXXXXXX wasnt, way too cliquey.

Strange that you should mention a club that I didn't allude to directly but you hit it on the nail.

In reply to ring ouzel: I mostly climbed with Ian Duckworth & Peter Bilsborough, together with John Fraser, Tony Kay & others from the uni although most/all of them were also members of the Ochils. From the 'townies' I climbed on occasion with Alan Petit, Geordie Skelton & others whose names escape me (Gordon something, Lenny something ?)

Fun times

In reply to Al Evans:


So... historically important, yes. But their importance for the future? Less clear, I think.

In reply to Bob kate bob:

By 'he' I assume you mean me, in fact I did and I didn't like what I was met with, see my later post, but thats just the odd club, even the CC which is seen as the bastion of climbing masonism and certainly is not an ideal club for complete beginners has started to arrange an aspirants meet, in fact there are two this year I think.

In reply to Al Evans: I did wonder Al if you were referring to them.

In reply to chris wyatt:


The mind boggles. Not that you'll find many of them in Haverfordwest.

In reply to Doug: Oh man, that takes me back! Ian Duckworth was God!! He kept on showing me how to do things even when I was obviously rubbish. He was a top bloke. I remember Alan and Geordie too. Geordie had us up by the West Highland Way, kicking down signs and we all traipsed into the NTS building on Ben Lawers in our boots precisely because they tried to stop us. When people talk about the older generation being more rebellious, its folk like Geordie that I think of.

In reply to J1234:

i have joined and been on 1 meet with the London Mount. Club...would happily go on more but tend to get out enough with mates. i've also been climbing since with people i've met on that meet so it's worked out well.

the "official" i met was a easy going and an active climber, without a hint of elitist tendencies, so no complaints there either. overall the club seems well organised.

the only downside is that the general standard seems quite low....a trait i think most clubs would share....but that is a minor quibble.

In reply to Nao:


That's a fair point, I'm not angry at people who genuinely try but find it isn't for them. But it can be demoralising to put in a lot of effort and give up climbing time for that to happen. But, believe me, you do get complete time wasters as well.


Erm, who are you to tell a club, which you are not a member of, what they should do?


As Ian, it is climbing outside, trad really, that I was talking about. You do usually have to do the same climbs. It can be alright on single pitch routes, such as gritstone, to mix in some easy routes with a beginner and harder routes with someone else. But at many crags, it's not feasible, if you decide to take a beginner out, it does take over the day.

What I'm trying to say is that we don't have all the time in the world to introduce new climbers. We do, in our club, take lots of beginners climbing, but we do also have to do as Tim says: say no. It appears that just because we are members of clubs, we get castigated for this.

Oh dear, I didn't mean to get into an argument about this. I'm finding that what I write is often interpreted differently to my intention.

In reply to Al Evans: yep I meant you ;-p

Unfortunately from the clubs that I have come accross I wouldn't say it was just the odd club, but there again I wouldn't say it was the majority either.

At one point there was a club that I was thinking of joining, but one reason why I didn't even bother was you had to competently lead trad climb a specific grade. cimbing clubs in the UK are really set up for trad climbers, and if you are not a trad climber then the door to joining feels rather shut.

In reply to J1234:

Nail. Head.

jcm

In reply to Bob kate bob:

Some are, some aren't.

In reply to J1234:

Direct quote from a club membership application, basically were not here to provide training, if thats what you want go to a local wall. If you want to learn and gain experience we will help you. Seems fair enough to me and not elitist in the slightest.

"York Mountaineering Club welcomes all new members, whether you are a beginner or already highly experienced, or somewhere in between. Perhaps you may have done a good deal of hillwalking but wish to move on to winter mountaineering, or into rock climbing. The Club tries to create opportunities for members to improve their experience at all levels. Whatever the activity, Members are expected to be responsible for their own safety, and to contribute to the safety of others. If you are new to an activity, you are asked to gain experience in stages; to learn appropriate skills, and to understand any risks involved. This is because the Club is an association of friends rather than a training organisation or a commercial "adventure-provider". For these reasons, some of our more "serious" trips may only be suitable for people with a certain amount of previous experience, and those for whom the trip may be a "next step". You should check this out with the event organiser."

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Yes, but symbiosis takes two to tango.

In reply to ring ouzel:
I'll point him at your post - it'll tickle him!

In reply to Iain Forrest:

I bet the staff who had to clean the floor appreciated the rebellious gesture of going in with your boots on no end.

Enlighten me. How is this rebelliousness and not just yobbery?

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously: Geordie was always concerned that the principles that Unna had laid down for the NTS were being completely ignored. He reckoned Unna would be spinning in his grave if he knew what NTS were doing with their visitor centres etc. He saw it as vandalism.

I applied for a job with NTS last year. It took them 3 months to make up their mind and let candidates know what was happening and then they didnt appoint anyone anyway. Not an organisation that fills me with hope.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Don't the two overlap?
I don't know - I wasn't there, and don't know the circumstances. Geordie's a star, though - a proper climber, who sadly can't climb much now but still goes out of his way to pass on his encyclopaedic knowledge and immense enthusiasm.

In reply to ring ouzel:

And this gentleman thought the best way of expressing those feelings would be to make extra work for the cleaner?

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously: Absolutely, thus by giving her overtime, she would be paid more. Everyones a winner.

In reply to Tim Chappell:


Hey, if you're gonna bitch about me then have the courtesy to say it to my face

In reply to rginns:

He's a good man, is our Bedspring, Rick. Top day at Stanage last weekend.

Having come from a caving background I am used to clubs. I can't meet
partners at the local caving wall and posting for partners on UKCaving.com never gets partners.

It appears that many of the folks on here can meet partners at their local wall. I have never met anyone to climb outdoors with at Blackpool Wall in the 2+ years I have been going there. The club I am in have been excellent
so far although I was starting to question whether I would renew my membership for 2007/08 but after the weekends at Trowbarrow and Stanage so far in 08 I am very glad I did.

Most clubs from my experience let you get a taster session first which will give you an insight into whether you would want to climb with such people on a more permanent basis.

In reply to lasonj:


But I AM one of your little friends... aren't I??

In reply to Anon_13_20220115: aye lad, my tongue was firmly in my cheek!

In reply to rginns:

NB Your quest on Lancashire Rock leads. Is that the brick or the newer version. Was up at Slapes Scar with Karl Lunt yesterday which is in the Whitbarrow bit of the brick.

In reply to Squirrel Bill:

Reminds me of the 1st time I went to Lundy with an NLMC crowd.

There was a mate of Brendan Murphy's there who decided to come anyway even if he didn't know anyone (this was shortly after Brendan got wiped out).

Turned out to be a great bloke.

Anyway, near the end of the week he said "I've never met a club who drinks so much and climbs so hard"

AFAIK the NLMC is still like that.

Club's are what you make them

In reply to J1234:
I am in the southampton solent university climbing club. It's good, for all that we're in what seems like the flattest place in the world. I have a couple of steady partners now, and our head is pretty proactive about getting the group outside. Before people start complaining about top ropes btw, know that I head off and climb trad with my friends and don't go in for any of that malarkey.

In reply to Robfromcornwall:

Ah, but you see that makes you a cliquey elitist. You can't win.

jcm

In reply to J1234:

I've only had experience of one club - Lindsey Climbing Club, based in Lincolnshire

Everyone's really friendly, kids are allowed to come along, and those with the knowledge are keen to show newbies the ropes

It's true that I'm biased cos I'm now involved in running the club - but i was a noob once and i wouldn't have continued to attend, had it been anything but welcoming

In reply to J1234:

After climbing exclusively with three partners for 10 years or so I found myself being the only one left keen to go climbing.

Did a season of solo stuff then decided to look to club climbing.

Found a local(ish) club to me, went out with them a couple of times, have now been a member for 2-3 years.

The club offers me folk to climb with, regular hut meets, and an opportunity to try other aspects of climbing (used to only do winter climbing - have now been known to rock climb and even boulder nowadays as well)

Clubs, like all apsects of life, some are bad, some are good, it is up to you to percevere if you want something from them - the club I am is the 3rd one I went along to asthe first 2 were dreadfull.

There is no rule for all though - I climbed for 10 years without being a club member, generally shunning all concept of climbing orgaisations etc

In reply to J1234:
>How do you percieve climbing clubs?



A great resource for knowledge, experience, history, huts, lifts, enjoyment, partners ect. In my experience most members of climbing clubs are actually active climbers, maybe have become a little older and now dont climb as much, but they still have that climbing 'vibe' that I think clubs maintain and enhance and alot of modern climbers are missing.

In reply to Anon_13_20220115: well I only have the new guide so that effectively rules out the yorkshire and whitbarrow stuff - christ Id never finish it if that were the case! good effort on slapes though.

In reply to Tim Chappell: I was trying to pretend I was a 7a climber, but yes you are one of my little wittle friends <pats Tim on head>

In reply to J1234:

Full of middle aged men with beards and glasses wearing ron-hills and old fleeces....

In reply to 2pints:

So you've seen your future then.........

In reply to J1234: What a can of worms you've opened here, Beds! Reminds me of the old Groucho Marx story, along the lines of "I wouldn't want to join any club that would have me as a member".
It's interesting that a lot of people have posted , mentioning that they've had positive club experiences but coyly not naming the club. Well here's a plug for my (and your's, and Rick's, and t'other Rick's and Dave's who've all posted) Lancashire Caving & Climbing Club (the caving's not compulsory by the way). We are the friendly club - not cliquey, not elitist (doesn't mean we don't have some talented climbers - two of our number did Quietus on Sunday). Just look at our website - our meets programme is there (at least one meet every week), as is our bi-monthly newsletter which gives a flavour of our activities. We don't expect highly experienced hot shots to join us, but then most people aren't HEHSs. I joined our club nearly 20 years ago and immediately made lots of friends. It's been great. And while many of us are of mature years we are at least still active and have a lot of experience from which newcomers can learn. If anyone out there is interested we are to be found on http://www.lccc.org.uk/
We are always looking for new members and are organising a "get to meet us" evening at Awesome Walls, Stockport on Wednesday 12th March, 5pm
onwards. Be there or ...

In reply to Rog Wilko:

LOL.

Y'know, the fact that you think it takes talent to climb E2 does tell one rather a lot about the club scene?

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Elitist comment. So, how many long distance walks have you done, 40-70 milers?

How many ice routes have you done, how many alpine routes, or major rock routes in the Alps?

If you have not done any of them, your crag rat approach to climbing makes you a less well rounded climber than probably 50% of club climbers.

In reply to sutty:
And one of the lads there on Sunday has climbed the North Face of the Eiger now that might not impress JCM but it impresses the hell out of me.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously: What a silly comment. I was just pointing out that not all club members are bumblies. But maybe leading Quietus qualifies you as entry-level bumbly these days. All the talk about what grades are "standard" is belied by what I see on the crags - i.e. a majority climbing sub extreme.

In reply to Rog Wilko:

>All the talk about what grades are "standard" is belied by what I see on the crags - i.e. a majority climbing sub extreme.

What you think is standard is what you will climb. But you are right - if you want to climb sub-extreme the clubs are an excellent way of achieving that. I seem to recall that Wrinkle was a particular favourite of the one I used to belong to. Many members seldom climbed any other route.

jcm

In reply to sutty:

Come, sutty, you have enough sense and experience to know that climbing is elitist or it is nothing and that if it were not it would not be worth doing. Did Don used to complain about elitism, I wonder? The Rock and Ice used to take out beginners much, did they? (attractive women excluded, obviously)

I sometimes wonder whether 'elitist' these days is intended by its users to mean anything more than 'recognising the fact that some people are better at an activity than others'.

Since you ask, long distance walks three, the rest none.

>If you have not done any of them, your crag rat approach to climbing makes you a less well rounded climber than probably 50% of club climbers.

I don't know about 50%, but yes, no doubt. That in itself is a bit of a comment on the club scene, don't you think?

jcm

In reply to Rog Wilko:
a) We all know jcm's right in terms of the majority of clubs, or at least in terms of the attitudes of most clubs.
b) What you see at crags depends largely on who you go out with. If you go to crags popular with lower grade climbers on weekends then it's not surprising not to see people onsighting E5s.. If you go to hunstman's on a sunny weekend you'll probably see plenty of harder routes get done. Also, the hardest stuff generally is going to get done when it's quiet so you'll probably only see it if you're out a lot midweek or know people doing it. Don't forget that people who climb E2 will climb plenty of lower grade stuff too.

In reply to sutty:
JCM isn't being 'elitist'. He's just saying that in his experience clubs tend to be full of people who don't climb that hard.

In reply to Morgan Woods:

That's basically my impression of clubs, lots of people who want to 'consolidate VS' *yawn* oh and very trad centric *yawn* again.

If there was an active group of people out there really pushing themselves to do amazing things and felt like encouraging other people to do so, I would join.

Maybe I should start a bouldering club

In reply to sutty:

Not everyone wants to be an 'all round climber'. I want to climb as hard as I possibly can and push my limit. I want to see the standard of women's climbing in the UK improve.

Going on a 70 mile walk or doing an Alpine route won't help me to achieve that.

In reply to J1234:

Totty.

In reply to Jenn and sutty

There's a distinction here, I think, between a climber and a mountaineer. Obviously the two activities overlap a lot, but I think what sutty is saying is that only climbing very technically hard routes will make you good at climbing very technically hard routes; while if you want to gain a wider experience of mountaineering then just climbing 10m grit routes won't give you that. I am not saying that one is 'better' than the other but I am suggesting that they are different, and some people will want to do one and some the other.

(I am a member of a mountaineering club, not a climbing club.)

In reply to Jenn:


Yeah, but it'll build yer character...

< Chortles, rolls around on couch, pops another can. >

Mick

In reply to Mick Ward:

Behave junior, let Jenn have her pop. When she decides to visit Carnmore to get some of those big hard routes in she will have to walk a bit.

In reply to everyone: Lots of people seem to be missing the point about climbing clubs - they are just collections of pretty average UK climbers, some young, some old, some introvert, some extrovert, some fanatical climbers, some active in a whole range of sports.

Most local UK climbing clubs might have say 50 active members - therefore if you've in the top few % of recreational climbers in any particular discipline trad/sport/bouldring etc. then it's predictable that you'll be less likley to find partners of a similar ability and are therefore less likely to benefit from club membership and hence less likely to join.

The age range in local clubs is also slightly skewed towards older climbers because of the influence of student climbers. Students normally climb with fellow students in a Uni club or just as friends. This often continues after University for a greater or lesser time. This normally results in a demographic which often includes a few teenager but with most of the membership ranging from late-20s through to 60s.

If you are an 'averagish' UK climber (i.e. lead VS/HVS trad, climbing low 6s indoor and might occasionally clip some bolts) and are happy to mix with people of varying ages then in joining virtually any local club you'll easily find a dozen plus potential partners in the same area. However if you are looking for 'like-minded' individuals with exactly the same outlook, abilty and aspiration then out of a bunch of 20 random climbers at a club meet there is no wonder you're going to be disappointed.

50 people in a local club compared with 500 people reading a lifts & partners post on UKC? It's no wonder many feel UKC offers the better deal, but it's really missing the point of LOCAL clubs.

I'm a very content member of the relatively small Yeovil Mountaineering Club despite the fact that I rarely if ever climb with anyone in the club as no-one else really climbs 7b or E4 currently. However, the 'climbing hard' issue doesn't detract from the fact that I can spend a sociable evening once/twice a month down the wall or in the pub with some local climbers.

I'm also a CC member but that is a complettely different set-up and offers fantastic benefits in partners and huts.

If you're James Pearson or Dave McLeod you're probably not going to get anything out of being a local club member but for anyone operating in the more sensible grades and who is spending far too much on petrol travelling to the crag then local clubs are well worth the £10-£20 per year even if you only share one lift to North Wales/Lakes/Cornwall etc.

Hope that makes sense.

In reply to Mark Stevenson:


Makes perfect sense.

As a plebby "climber" who brings out the yawn in some who post on here, I think one of the best things about clubs is that I can waffle on about climbing indefinitely and most people don't get bored; not like they do in other social circles.
I'd also like to say that through clubs, and just generally by being in places where climbers go, I have met and made friends with people who climb considerably harder than me, and they have never been rude or patronising or yawned or been disparaging about my lowly grades.

In reply to sutty:


She'll be < puff, pant > probably carrying most of the contents of my sac as well as her own!

Mick

In reply to Mick Ward:

Trust me, I already have character by the bucket-load

Hillwalking is very good for fitness, I will give you that. I was in the best shape of my life when I used to partake in such activities.

I just meant that I don't think I will find a ton of really keen people pushing themselves in clubs who can offer support and encouragement. I wish that situation was different.

I also meant that not everyone aspires to be an 'all rounder'. They are not less worthy. I spent numerous days lost in some god-forsaken cwm. It didn't make me happy. If that floats your boat then so be it, but it’s not for everyone.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

John you've got more experience than me of climbing clubs - and I think I know which one you're talking about. If it is though, then it's got 400 members - which gives (almost) everyone at least a chance of finding a partner who not only shares your aims for the day, but isn't a tw*t.

There are obviously people who it's simply not possible never mind desirable to climb with, because they're too different in personality and aims.

It's also true that most clubs (not including the CC here) are full of punters with a healthy smattering of people who's true aim isn't really to climb. A common joke is that our club is like a dating agency; women have been known to arrive, meet man, get shacked up and stop climbing within an incredible time span. But then again, they contribute to the social scene without which the club would be a bit dull.

It's true to say that there probably isn't a single person who can climb V7/E4/7b or better. But if you're looking for that, you've probably outgrown a club anyway and have other sources of partners (e.g. the climbing wall).

There are other things about clubs that are important too. The pooling of funds means that the club can buy huts etc. - which isn't possible for your small pool of rock jocks.

In reply to Jenn: Can I join your club Jenn? ;0)

In reply to Sircumfrins:

Of course you can

In reply to Chris L:

Absolutely true. I had no problem with the club in question except a slight moral issue about why merchant bankers should be applying to the Lottery Fund for money; they had lots of members I liked and undoubtedly for those who like that sort of thing it's the sort of thing they will like.

jcm

In reply to Jenn:


Me too. Sadly, it never seems to help with sit starts.

Mick

I have a dislike for Climbing Clubs. In particular I don't like them showing up at a local crag and putting a top rope on every decent route.

I have, on occasion, untied and dropped their ropes to the ground.

In reply to J1234: Hiya, I have been in the CC since 1989 and have met loads of people and been to lots of places. It has been the vehicle to widen my climbing and places that I have been besides that of my local climbing club of which many members are already in the CC. I have since joined the FRCC, which again many of my mates are already members. The bigger clubs are a broad church and cover all sorts of ages and interests. They have good fun meets and are very friendly and encouraging. Try it, you might like it.

Bradders.

In reply to J1234: Nothing wrong with em!

In reply to J1234:

Most of the people I choose to socialise with I've met through climbing clubs and the certainly are a useful source of partners.

There is a load of bollocks spouted by many 'non club' people who are then quite happy to head off on RT picnics - totally failing to realise that is exactly what a 'club' does.

In reply to GrahamD:


I've been having a quiet chuckle at this thread.
Of course clubs aren't for everybody; but some people do love to have a good old rant. Bless 'em.

In reply to J1234:

their good at least the Milton Keynes one is

Ive learned a lot from joining them.

clubs are good things but you also need to have the "guts" to climb outseide the club from time to time as a club mentality can set in if you let it.

In reply to J1234: i am in a club! two members! me and my climbing partner who is my girlfriend go where we want, climb when we want and if enough energy left a bit rumble in the hay. clubs are naff! typically british--

Been having a go a climbing for a few years, struggled to progress, lost climbing partners to work and families and picked up lots of bad habits along the way. Got involved with a group (not a club although most of them are club members)a few weeks ago and it has revived my love for the sport. A wealth of experience to tap into and climbers at all grades to help push you along. I am sure there are members of clubs and groups in all walks of life who only join them to feel superior but so far my experience has been fantastically positive.

In reply to J1234: i like the guys that run mine, but they don't like beginers, and appears to do more walking than cllimbing trips .. its the same in most in my liited (20yr) experience, beter of just meeting people who want to climb and picking it up as you go along ..

In reply to KeithW:

I'd ban them from all those crags they can only climb on because of Clubs

In reply to The proper Jules W:

And in most cases, the quickest way to do that is to get in touch with the local club.

In reply to J1234: Came across Birmingham University Mountainering Club at Shepherds on Sunday who were lound and throwing ropes down without calling down and just made me realise why I am so glad I no longer belong to a club.Ban them from local crags.

In reply to jessie:

Thats a problem with particular climbers, not clubs. In any case, I'd imagine that someone as worldly wise as yourself managed to move on to somewhere a bit more imaginitive and quieter than Shepherds so no harm done.

In reply to GrahamD: No its a problem with clubs and I only had time to nip down the valley and squeeze 2 quick climbs in plus it was fairly cold and that part of the crag we were on catches the winter morning sun.You were not there so do not comment on there bad behaviour

In reply to jessie:

No, it is people, some members of clubs are probably more polite, quieter and more forgiving than you are.

You say you only had time to nip down the valley to squeeze routes in, so you must be local. Personally it is all the loud mouthed skallies from Keswick that cause most of the trouble, thinking they own the crags and town.

Does not sound nice does it?

In reply to jessie:

As said by several other people it's a problem with individual 'climbers'. In particular it's a problem with presumably 'young' and 'inexperienced' climbers.

Despite not suffering fools gladly I'm generally reasonably forgiving of enthusiastic younger climbers; I made enough mistakes myself in the past and most are receptive to constructive comments suitably delivered.

Outdoor centre groups etc. run by those who should know better are a completely different story.

In reply to sutty: I have had sereral bad experiences with clubs and please no verbal abuse as all i was doing is offering my view on this forum thread if you do not like it my advice to you is join a different club,and you must be a tourist,

In reply to jessie:

Pardon, I gave you no verbal abuse, just used the same sort of emotive language that you did.

Never mind, your comment on me being a tourist tells me you ARE one of those people who despise the people who put the money in your pocket, an insular local. Thank goodness the members of the climbing clubs round Keswick are not all like you, we have had some great nights in lots of pubs over the last 50 years.

I am sure they would welcome you if you were not so stuck up.

In reply to sutty: calling local people lound mouthed scallies is not verbal abuse and by the way it is us locals that keep local business going during the quite winter months.This will be my last posting on the subject and as i said before a forum is a place to express your views and experiences that is all I have done enjoy your club meets but please keep the noise down.

In reply to jessie:

Quiet winter months ? in the Lake District FFS ?

OK you have had some unfortunate experiences with some younger 'exuberant climbers' - so have we all. They happened to be in a university club. Trying to tar all clubs, with members from all backgrounds, with the same brush is ridiculous.

In reply to jessie:

Oh for goodness sake, learn to read what I wrote,

>calling local people lound mouthed scallies

I said after, it is not very nice is it, calling everyone the same when it may be one or two, the same as at the crag.

Hope you can understand now, I know you are young and inexperienced from your postings so in time you will learn that not everyone is the same.

In reply to Rog Wilko: One of the advantages i find from being in the Lancs club is the number of trips we run both home and abroad, in the last couple of years i have been to Rjukan, Lundy, Spain and Sardinia. there were also trips to the Alps, Kalymnos and even to the Himalaya.

In reply to Mike Hall:

Another advantage of club trips abroad is you know some of the people who you climb with so are rarely let down by someone you have only met briefly.

In reply to J1234: The term club brings forth images of anoraks, thick rimmed glasses and thermos flasks.
Last summer in Portland I was in a group of about 20 mates when some guy innocently asked if we were some sort of club. I had the urge to roundhouse kick him in the face but instead settled for correcting him verbally.
One should not attend a climbing club. One should simply go climbing with like minded friends

In reply to Steviedee:


You sound like a right laff.

In reply to sutty: Well I know that I said it was going to be my last posting on this delicate subject but yet again you have maid some rather brash assumptions about me firstly my age I do not think I am young lets say I'm over 30 but under 40 and secondly I have been climbing for over 9 years both rock ice and alpine so i have had plenty of experience.getting back to the subject clubs are not for me everyone to there own and if you learnt to read your self maybe you would not have taken such offence to my oringal posting and for the second time or is it the third time forums are ABOUT SHARING YOUR VIEWS AND EXPERIENCES THAT IS ALL I WAS DOING

In reply to J1234:

If you're new to an area and want to climb, indispensible.

In reply to J1234: Think clubs are constantly evolving, my local club Guildford Mountaineering club is booming and very friendly at the moment. Think in the past is has been through its cliquey stage, but last year saw a massive boom in new members and this year seems to be offering the same. Yet me still have managed to keep the experienced climbers happy.

Think the question on coaching is an important one. One thing our club can't do is coach and we have to advice new members of this. This dosen't mean we can't teach, just means its not officially. There is so much experience in the club it is always being passed on. I know all members will offer to take on a newbie on a meet.

In reply to Jon Redshaw:

My club, the NMC, organise leading courses and winter skills courses we have qualified instructors and qualified guides as members who can do the training. Any club can organise courses, all you need to do is find a few qualified instructors/guides. It needn't cost the club anything, the people on the course pay. You're just enabling it to happen.

I’m sorry to hear that so many people have had bad experiences with climbing clubs. I have been in various climbing clubs since 2001 and have never had any of the problems mentioned above. I’m the secretary for my local club based in Tunbridge wells now and we have none of these problems.