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So now we know what people think of climbing clubs, but how would they get you to join.
Remember they are not businesses and do not charge very much, so cannot really offer things that cost a lot of money. Or is that the problem, if they cost more, say £100 a year but offered more would you be more likley to join because that more proffesional aproach is what your used to in life and have come to expect.
Any ideas welcome but non club members views will really carry more weight.
Cheers Beds
Remember they are not businesses and do not charge very much, so cannot really offer things that cost a lot of money. Or is that the problem, if they cost more, say £100 a year but offered more would you be more likley to join because that more proffesional aproach is what your used to in life and have come to expect.
Any ideas welcome but non club members views will really carry more weight.
Cheers Beds
In reply to J1234:
free racks and shoes!
sexy blondes who climb in bikinis, and lots of sharing 1 man tents afterwards
free racks and shoes!
sexy blondes who climb in bikinis, and lots of sharing 1 man tents afterwards
In reply to J1234: accept under 18's!
In reply to J1234:
What Swig said.
We have a website, a couple of posters stuck up, an entry on the BMC list and err... that's it.
People who want to join email or phone us or just come down the pub. People who don't... don't.
What Swig said.
We have a website, a couple of posters stuck up, an entry on the BMC list and err... that's it.
People who want to join email or phone us or just come down the pub. People who don't... don't.
In reply to Pauline:
Would you pay full price or even extra to pay for the insurance and what age do you suggest 14 should be mature 16 can have sex or 17 drive a car or younger.
Would you pay full price or even extra to pay for the insurance and what age do you suggest 14 should be mature 16 can have sex or 17 drive a car or younger.
In reply to Swig:
Well perhaps they should, but if you want that debate start your own thread.
> (In reply to bedspring)
>
> clubs don't try to recruit members. they let people join if they want.
>
> clubs don't try to recruit members. they let people join if they want.
Well perhaps they should, but if you want that debate start your own thread.
In reply to J1234:
And no fast fingers I`m not saying they should have sex with club members.
> (In reply to Pauline)
> Would you pay full price or even extra to pay for the insurance and what age do you suggest 14 should be mature 16 can have sex or 17 drive a car or younger.
> Would you pay full price or even extra to pay for the insurance and what age do you suggest 14 should be mature 16 can have sex or 17 drive a car or younger.
And no fast fingers I`m not saying they should have sex with club members.
In reply to J1234: well thats put me right off :P
In reply to J1234:
i think if they amalgamated all the uni clubs then kicked the guys out....i would join that one!
i think if they amalgamated all the uni clubs then kicked the guys out....i would join that one!
In reply to J1234: You're missing the point - climbing clubs don't want to 'GET' people to join. They just 'are' and people in the club get on doing what they 'do' and if others think it's worthwhile then they will be welcome to join in.
Most climbing clubs are superb value and in many cases the membership (less c.£10 BMC subs which are well worth it for your 3rd party insurance, Summit, support to access work etc.) will be about £5!
If you can't see the self evident value of having access to a network of other local climbers then nothing they say or do is going to convince you. As I probalby said before, sharing just one lift on one trip during the year, or spending just one wekeend in a club hut will make joining a club financially worthwhile.
Most climbing clubs are superb value and in many cases the membership (less c.£10 BMC subs which are well worth it for your 3rd party insurance, Summit, support to access work etc.) will be about £5!
If you can't see the self evident value of having access to a network of other local climbers then nothing they say or do is going to convince you. As I probalby said before, sharing just one lift on one trip during the year, or spending just one wekeend in a club hut will make joining a club financially worthwhile.
In reply to Mark Stevenson: But, just But, Bedspring is looking at the whole climbing club thing from a different angle.
I doubt he would want to change the way all other climbing clubs are run (I see some club members are already jumping down his throat).
Maybe he is looking to see if a club set up differently from the norm would be worthwhile for climbers that don't usually join climbers clubs.
I doubt he would want to change the way all other climbing clubs are run (I see some club members are already jumping down his throat).
Maybe he is looking to see if a club set up differently from the norm would be worthwhile for climbers that don't usually join climbers clubs.
In reply to J1234:
It's an interesting question. The club I'm involved with is good value for money - it holds a weekly climbing session at its own wall (just £2 for adults each session) and for that the veterans offer free training with regards to ropes, belays, leading etc. Membership is £15 a year, and for that you get BMC affiliation (and insurance) and use of all the club's gear for outdoor stuff.
With regard to 'getting' people to come along, the club enjoys a steady influx of newcomers without advertising or trying to entice new members, although most of these newcomers only come for a few weeks and then lose interest.
Last year I put a small notice in the local paper basically saying "new members welcome" and the club was inundated, which was great (although hard work for the club's supervisors!).
It's an interesting question. The club I'm involved with is good value for money - it holds a weekly climbing session at its own wall (just £2 for adults each session) and for that the veterans offer free training with regards to ropes, belays, leading etc. Membership is £15 a year, and for that you get BMC affiliation (and insurance) and use of all the club's gear for outdoor stuff.
With regard to 'getting' people to come along, the club enjoys a steady influx of newcomers without advertising or trying to entice new members, although most of these newcomers only come for a few weeks and then lose interest.
Last year I put a small notice in the local paper basically saying "new members welcome" and the club was inundated, which was great (although hard work for the club's supervisors!).
In reply to Mark Stevenson:
> (In reply to bedspring) You're missing the point - climbing clubs don't want to 'GET' people to join. They just 'are' and people in the club get on doing what they 'do' and if others think it's worthwhile then they will be welcome to join in.
>
No your missing the point. Some clubs are activley seeking members and within the context of this thread your comments are not helpfull. Your only highlighting the fact that some club members do not understand why people do not join. >
In reply to J1234:
I read an article last night in 'Climber' on this topic, it was pointed out that a lot of indoor climbing walls are the stepping stone into the 'outdoors' and climbing related activities, especially for young people.
It also raised the image of clubs!? (like mountaineering clubs) and how they may be perceived as cliqy' and run by old buffers. and may be heading for the scrap heap.
I know this is not the case, and so do the climbing/ mountaineering fraternity, but for the keen on looker, maybe?
I have been a member of a club for a year now, but never done anything with them, although i have been asked and invited by a couple of members, and even club director. this after 7 months into membership was amazing, and it made me so happy that i was asked. but could have come a littles sooner.
the club meets regular, and i could have turned up anytime, i may be partly to blame for not attending through work etc. but its the same ol' same ol'
there is also a feeling of 'will i fit in'? and making the step to get in amongst it.
I have noticed though that club members were a little divided into smaller cliques and doing things, and could be hard to tap into.
I would certainly be willing to pay more, and then be notified regular of things happening in the club, the website was difficult to use, and was rarely updated, and i didn't receive any monthly letters/emails etc
Im no way disgruntled by it all, and i will kick my ass into gear this year and do more, and the club is certainly not run by old duffers!
I would love to have a monthly flyer, post is so much more personal/professional than an email (if you have one) I would be willing to pay more, for then the club once every 2 months say, hire minibuses to travel the UK, and regular meets in different locations other than an indoor wall, and some seminars and even workshops for newcomer's would be nice
the directors/committees do this off their own backs, so a lot of respect goes out to them, however pay more, so the committees can use this money, some for their own time, and to put on more for members, intice new members, make yourselves known. i had to look for you!
£100 a year is nothing, and would be more beneficial for the club and member, but then there is also a concern with the finances? would the monies then be swallowed up into already on going ventures?
as long as its monitored and spent wisely, i will gladly give up £100, for my club to 'contact' me at least once a year!
to be honest 25 x members at £100 pays for a minibus!!
keep up the good work, but remember your new members, who they are, and how to contact them and keep them enthused.
I read an article last night in 'Climber' on this topic, it was pointed out that a lot of indoor climbing walls are the stepping stone into the 'outdoors' and climbing related activities, especially for young people.
It also raised the image of clubs!? (like mountaineering clubs) and how they may be perceived as cliqy' and run by old buffers. and may be heading for the scrap heap.
I know this is not the case, and so do the climbing/ mountaineering fraternity, but for the keen on looker, maybe?
I have been a member of a club for a year now, but never done anything with them, although i have been asked and invited by a couple of members, and even club director. this after 7 months into membership was amazing, and it made me so happy that i was asked. but could have come a littles sooner.
the club meets regular, and i could have turned up anytime, i may be partly to blame for not attending through work etc. but its the same ol' same ol'
there is also a feeling of 'will i fit in'? and making the step to get in amongst it.
I have noticed though that club members were a little divided into smaller cliques and doing things, and could be hard to tap into.
I would certainly be willing to pay more, and then be notified regular of things happening in the club, the website was difficult to use, and was rarely updated, and i didn't receive any monthly letters/emails etc
Im no way disgruntled by it all, and i will kick my ass into gear this year and do more, and the club is certainly not run by old duffers!
I would love to have a monthly flyer, post is so much more personal/professional than an email (if you have one) I would be willing to pay more, for then the club once every 2 months say, hire minibuses to travel the UK, and regular meets in different locations other than an indoor wall, and some seminars and even workshops for newcomer's would be nice
the directors/committees do this off their own backs, so a lot of respect goes out to them, however pay more, so the committees can use this money, some for their own time, and to put on more for members, intice new members, make yourselves known. i had to look for you!
£100 a year is nothing, and would be more beneficial for the club and member, but then there is also a concern with the finances? would the monies then be swallowed up into already on going ventures?
as long as its monitored and spent wisely, i will gladly give up £100, for my club to 'contact' me at least once a year!
to be honest 25 x members at £100 pays for a minibus!!
keep up the good work, but remember your new members, who they are, and how to contact them and keep them enthused.
I am invovled in a starting a climbing club at my univserity, and it has been difficult getting people to turn up, but the main problem we have come across is funding!
To get members to join its usually word of mouth, sending out blanket emails, and posters round campus advertising events
we try to make it varied so everyone can enjoy most things. we have lectures on how to set up belays, trad climbing etc, and then go out and practise (most of our memebers only do sport!)
we have curry nights when we need to organise meetings to make them less tedious, and watch films/climbing clips afterwards.
We are arranging to go to competitions+ llamff + north wales + women only nights, and also to go to spain to see our international members.
If you want to recruit members, get out in your local community, but watch out if you start charging more for memebership, people may expect a more professional experience and that leads to implications if things go wrong!!
Also with under 18's you start to get into dark water about care of duty etc, but if you have the resources to do something like that then go for it!!
there are not enough facilities for people to experience something different from the norm and for kids to get involved well that just makes it even better!!
To get members to join its usually word of mouth, sending out blanket emails, and posters round campus advertising events
we try to make it varied so everyone can enjoy most things. we have lectures on how to set up belays, trad climbing etc, and then go out and practise (most of our memebers only do sport!)
we have curry nights when we need to organise meetings to make them less tedious, and watch films/climbing clips afterwards.
We are arranging to go to competitions+ llamff + north wales + women only nights, and also to go to spain to see our international members.
If you want to recruit members, get out in your local community, but watch out if you start charging more for memebership, people may expect a more professional experience and that leads to implications if things go wrong!!
Also with under 18's you start to get into dark water about care of duty etc, but if you have the resources to do something like that then go for it!!
there are not enough facilities for people to experience something different from the norm and for kids to get involved well that just makes it even better!!
In reply to J1234:
I think i would want to try before i bought - Maybe a months grace before you had to pay the membership fees - to see if its your kind of thing or not.
I think i would want to try before i bought - Maybe a months grace before you had to pay the membership fees - to see if its your kind of thing or not.
In reply to J1234:
Probably "kicking and screaming" would be about right.
> So now we know what people think of climbing clubs, but how would they get you to join.
Probably "kicking and screaming" would be about right.
In reply to es:
Our club is pretty relaxed about fees and a some free meets wouldn`t be a worry.
Our club is pretty relaxed about fees and a some free meets wouldn`t be a worry.
In reply to Susat:
What do you want them to do. They`ve let you in the club,they`ve given you a personal call and invited you to a meet.
I`m not saying your wrong, just it`s a head scratcher.
What do you want them to do. They`ve let you in the club,they`ve given you a personal call and invited you to a meet.
I`m not saying your wrong, just it`s a head scratcher.
In reply to J1234: One of the most important things for me is a friendly, welcoming club that encourages new membership. This means NOT being an insular clique of individuals with self-interest at heart, but rather a visible positive commitment to getting other people involved in climbing, from whatever background, age or level of ability. I'm not fussed about cost or material incentives. A club will get me to join if it encourages and actively recruits new membership rather than sitting waiting for grateful souls to apply to them.
In reply to es:
Most clubs ask you to go on a meet or two as a guest so they, and you, can see if the club is right for you before you ever get asked to pay to join. A few have a member responsible for welcoming new members and introducing them to others in the club, pointing out the hard climbers, the walkers and the potterers.
One thing to remember, you will NEVER see some members. they may be old or ancient duffers who just want to stay in the club long after they have stopped climbing seriously. Do not dis-count them. They may be the ones who dip their hands in their pockets to help buy a new hut, having made their pile and putting something back into the club for the young to use. I know of at least three clubs that has happened, the odd £10,000 came in handy.
On the other hand there will be users, people who are small groups who rarely go on meets but use the huts and organise their weekends themselves. They may seem cliquey, well they are till you get to know them then if you fit in you will be part of the group.
Most clubs ask you to go on a meet or two as a guest so they, and you, can see if the club is right for you before you ever get asked to pay to join. A few have a member responsible for welcoming new members and introducing them to others in the club, pointing out the hard climbers, the walkers and the potterers.
One thing to remember, you will NEVER see some members. they may be old or ancient duffers who just want to stay in the club long after they have stopped climbing seriously. Do not dis-count them. They may be the ones who dip their hands in their pockets to help buy a new hut, having made their pile and putting something back into the club for the young to use. I know of at least three clubs that has happened, the odd £10,000 came in handy.
On the other hand there will be users, people who are small groups who rarely go on meets but use the huts and organise their weekends themselves. They may seem cliquey, well they are till you get to know them then if you fit in you will be part of the group.
In reply to J1234: having a large membership of female students/post-grads, with regular meetings. Just to expand my, er, 'social circle'
In reply to chrisireland:
Brings to mind the paradox with these things though......
As institutions, clubs have an interest in recruiting new members to ensure the continuing survival of the club. The members have far less of a need for the club to continue, certainly not past the point where they stop climbing, and hence theres always the attitude of "why bother". Why should people make the effort to leave behind an existing circle of good friends and sacrifice precious climbing time in order to (in many cases at least) climb easier routes showing new people the ropes and introducing them to the club?
OK, maybe this is biased towards uni clubs, but the principle still holds - theres a balancing act to follow if the club wants to get new members between doing that and causing the existing membership to form their own subgroups and not really get involved with this ideal - there comes a point when you can't really be bothered any more and just want to climb with people you know and trust instead..........
In answer to the question, I'd probably join a club that offered me things like hut access, petrol shares etc, and more importantly seemed like a nice group of people once you got to know them - I'd prefer a club where once you make some friends they are good ones.
Which I suppose fits with the clubs I am or would like to be members of. I clicked quite well with NLMC once I got to know them, and they have a hut, and hence for these two reasons, plus the need to be a BMC member one way or another, I have remained a member despite not living in London any more. And the CC obviously have the huts and things but furthermore the (admittedly few) CC members I've met have come across as nice and interesting people to climb with and have a chat to, and so I'm keen to actually finish off applying to them some time this year.
AJM
Brings to mind the paradox with these things though......
As institutions, clubs have an interest in recruiting new members to ensure the continuing survival of the club. The members have far less of a need for the club to continue, certainly not past the point where they stop climbing, and hence theres always the attitude of "why bother". Why should people make the effort to leave behind an existing circle of good friends and sacrifice precious climbing time in order to (in many cases at least) climb easier routes showing new people the ropes and introducing them to the club?
OK, maybe this is biased towards uni clubs, but the principle still holds - theres a balancing act to follow if the club wants to get new members between doing that and causing the existing membership to form their own subgroups and not really get involved with this ideal - there comes a point when you can't really be bothered any more and just want to climb with people you know and trust instead..........
In answer to the question, I'd probably join a club that offered me things like hut access, petrol shares etc, and more importantly seemed like a nice group of people once you got to know them - I'd prefer a club where once you make some friends they are good ones.
Which I suppose fits with the clubs I am or would like to be members of. I clicked quite well with NLMC once I got to know them, and they have a hut, and hence for these two reasons, plus the need to be a BMC member one way or another, I have remained a member despite not living in London any more. And the CC obviously have the huts and things but furthermore the (admittedly few) CC members I've met have come across as nice and interesting people to climb with and have a chat to, and so I'm keen to actually finish off applying to them some time this year.
AJM
In reply to J1234:
If I was to join a club it would be because:
a) they had lots of meets and went to different places
b) they seemed like a nice group of people to climb with
c) they had a good beginner-experienced climber ratio and weren't solely interested in getting new club subs
d) they had a hut
e) I could get lifts with them
I've been meaning to join a club for ages - I'm halfway through my CC application but need a second for my application before I can get membership. They seem like a great idea for expanding your circle of partners and encouraging you out to new places. Have never gotten round to joining one of the local ones though so I might have to look into that...
If I was to join a club it would be because:
a) they had lots of meets and went to different places
b) they seemed like a nice group of people to climb with
c) they had a good beginner-experienced climber ratio and weren't solely interested in getting new club subs
d) they had a hut
e) I could get lifts with them
I've been meaning to join a club for ages - I'm halfway through my CC application but need a second for my application before I can get membership. They seem like a great idea for expanding your circle of partners and encouraging you out to new places. Have never gotten round to joining one of the local ones though so I might have to look into that...
In reply to Susat:
What do people expect? Of course there will be groups - these are people who want to go climbing with their mates as well as introduce others to climbing.
Personally I would probably only think of joining a club if circumstances left me screwed for mates to go climbing with regularly. Or if I could join a club with good huts cheaply but no have to actaully do anything with them, purely for the cheap huts.
> I have noticed though that club members were a little divided into smaller cliques and doing things, and could be hard to tap into.
What do people expect? Of course there will be groups - these are people who want to go climbing with their mates as well as introduce others to climbing.
Personally I would probably only think of joining a club if circumstances left me screwed for mates to go climbing with regularly. Or if I could join a club with good huts cheaply but no have to actaully do anything with them, purely for the cheap huts.
In reply to J1234:
The only way a climbing club could get me join (or stay joined) would be if they could guarantee that there is no internal politics, and that there aren't long-term members who are more interested in consolidating their power and status than they are with forwarding the club as a whole.
Unfortunately, all clubs and organisation everywhere, once they have reached a certain maturity, fall prey to this sort of politics.
University clubs are generally less susceptible to this, as every few years the power base is forcibly shifted as the older members leave for pastures new. As a result they have a constant influx of new people and new ideas, and rarely suffer from the internal wrangling and politics that inevitably ruins other clubs.
The only way a climbing club could get me join (or stay joined) would be if they could guarantee that there is no internal politics, and that there aren't long-term members who are more interested in consolidating their power and status than they are with forwarding the club as a whole.
Unfortunately, all clubs and organisation everywhere, once they have reached a certain maturity, fall prey to this sort of politics.
University clubs are generally less susceptible to this, as every few years the power base is forcibly shifted as the older members leave for pastures new. As a result they have a constant influx of new people and new ideas, and rarely suffer from the internal wrangling and politics that inevitably ruins other clubs.
In reply to abarro81:
This would be my approach too, and a last resort!
I suspect that were it not for their huts many 'established' clubs would have died a long time ago.
> Personally I would probably only think of joining a club if circumstances left me screwed for mates to go climbing with regularly.
This would be my approach too, and a last resort!
> Or if I could join a club with good huts cheaply but no have to actaully do anything with them, purely for the cheap huts.
I suspect that were it not for their huts many 'established' clubs would have died a long time ago.
In reply to climbingpixie:
I was going to suggest the Vagabond club to you, they seem friendly when I meet some of them. the only downside is their hut is rather well placed for the Llanberis slate, and I know how much you hate that.
http://www.vagabondmc.com/
I was going to suggest the Vagabond club to you, they seem friendly when I meet some of them. the only downside is their hut is rather well placed for the Llanberis slate, and I know how much you hate that.
http://www.vagabondmc.com/
In reply to Alun:
Sounds reasonable. And we already have one member living in Spain. What address should I send the application form to?
> The only way a climbing club could get me join (or stay joined) would be if they could guarantee that there is no internal politics, and that there aren't long-term members who are more interested in consolidating their power and status than they are with forwarding the club as a whole.
Sounds reasonable. And we already have one member living in Spain. What address should I send the application form to?
In reply to J1234: I know a perfectly decent bloke who was thrown out of a climbing club recently for sod all, so they aint all Mr Nice Guys!
In reply to Simon Caldwell:
lol
"The Genuinely, Honestly, trust-me-on-this Non-Political Climbing Club,
101 Wish-me-luck Road,
Youravinalarff
DreamLand"
Membership is free and we have a global network of huts right at the foot of all the best climbing and mountaineering spots, manned 24/7 by buxom wenches/stacked hunks (delete according to preference)!
> Sounds reasonable. And we already have one member living in Spain. What address should I send the application form to?
lol
"The Genuinely, Honestly, trust-me-on-this Non-Political Climbing Club,
101 Wish-me-luck Road,
Youravinalarff
DreamLand"
Membership is free and we have a global network of huts right at the foot of all the best climbing and mountaineering spots, manned 24/7 by buxom wenches/stacked hunks (delete according to preference)!
In reply to J1234:
I'm not. The original question was what would a climbing club need to do to get ME to join. Answer - Nothing. It just need to get on with doing what it does 'being a climbing club' for its members.
Within thirty second online I can find out what local climbing clubs exist in an area. In most cases I can immmediately check a website, ask on UKC if anyone is a member and within one/two weeks turn up on a meet and witness what the club 'does' first hand.
Not in the slightest. I know exactly why people don't join - they just don't value access to a (local or national) network of other climbers.
Why they don't value this is due to a 'personal judgement' about either the underlying utility of that network or the relative utility of it based on the people within it. The former is normally an objective judgement based on the fact they've already got mates/partners to climb with and there is little point in joining a club if you're already climbing every weekend anyway. The later is more likley to be a subjective assessment relating to their percieved interaction with people in the club...
- I like going climbing with my mates, going climbing with people I don't know who already all know each other will be awkward/not enjoyable/not my cup of tea.
- I don't 'do clubs' and 'cliques' etc..
- I climb for my own reasons and don't like organisation, rules & regulations; clubs are bound to have loads of them.
- I don't want to go climbing with people old enough to be my parents/grandpareents.
- I don't want to have to look after novices when I want to do my own climbing.
- I climb grade XYZ and everyone in the club will proabably want to climb VDiffs.
etc. etc.
If people don't want or need:
- climbing partners
- shared transport
- sociable meets, trips & events
then to be honest there isn't much a club can really offer them. Equally if they don't immediately value and appreciate the 'diversity' of age, experience and outlook within most clubs then they are not likely to contriubte much to the club in return. Worse, they are far more likely to form one of the 'cliques' that seem to be universally disparaged.
Positive promotion one-to-one by individuals at walls/crags and basic passive advertising (i.e. an up to date website) is enough to grow a club if latent demand exists and IMO may deliver more sustainable growth than an active 'marketing campaign' at club level.
> No your missing the point. Some clubs are activley seeking members and within the context of this thread your comments are not helpfull.
I'm not. The original question was what would a climbing club need to do to get ME to join. Answer - Nothing. It just need to get on with doing what it does 'being a climbing club' for its members.
Within thirty second online I can find out what local climbing clubs exist in an area. In most cases I can immmediately check a website, ask on UKC if anyone is a member and within one/two weeks turn up on a meet and witness what the club 'does' first hand.
> Your only highlighting the fact that some club members do not understand why people do not join.
Not in the slightest. I know exactly why people don't join - they just don't value access to a (local or national) network of other climbers.
Why they don't value this is due to a 'personal judgement' about either the underlying utility of that network or the relative utility of it based on the people within it. The former is normally an objective judgement based on the fact they've already got mates/partners to climb with and there is little point in joining a club if you're already climbing every weekend anyway. The later is more likley to be a subjective assessment relating to their percieved interaction with people in the club...
- I like going climbing with my mates, going climbing with people I don't know who already all know each other will be awkward/not enjoyable/not my cup of tea.
- I don't 'do clubs' and 'cliques' etc..
- I climb for my own reasons and don't like organisation, rules & regulations; clubs are bound to have loads of them.
- I don't want to go climbing with people old enough to be my parents/grandpareents.
- I don't want to have to look after novices when I want to do my own climbing.
- I climb grade XYZ and everyone in the club will proabably want to climb VDiffs.
etc. etc.
If people don't want or need:
- climbing partners
- shared transport
- sociable meets, trips & events
then to be honest there isn't much a club can really offer them. Equally if they don't immediately value and appreciate the 'diversity' of age, experience and outlook within most clubs then they are not likely to contriubte much to the club in return. Worse, they are far more likely to form one of the 'cliques' that seem to be universally disparaged.
Positive promotion one-to-one by individuals at walls/crags and basic passive advertising (i.e. an up to date website) is enough to grow a club if latent demand exists and IMO may deliver more sustainable growth than an active 'marketing campaign' at club level.
In reply to Mark Stevenson: Methinks you doth protest too much Mark! lol
In reply to J1234:
trust me, they are an evil lot.
You go to a pub and an innocent looking stranger comes up to you and says "You're not looking for the ...CC are you?".
He looks pretty friendly, you are a stranger in the area and the beer tastes all right and in no time he is seducing you with tales of distant ranges, strange names and terms, of trips in something called a clubbus. You are left dazed and dreaming like Mr Toad in the middle of the road,in the wake of the Fast Motor Car.
It all seems to make sense, and when other quite reasonable and friendly looking types arrive and treat you like a long lost family member you feel oddly elated, a little peturbed but when you come to a year has passed and you find yourself on some Alpine glacier, with flash recollections of weekends, gear buying trips and parties. Yo have, in short, become a member of The Cult..
trust me, they are an evil lot.
You go to a pub and an innocent looking stranger comes up to you and says "You're not looking for the ...CC are you?".
He looks pretty friendly, you are a stranger in the area and the beer tastes all right and in no time he is seducing you with tales of distant ranges, strange names and terms, of trips in something called a clubbus. You are left dazed and dreaming like Mr Toad in the middle of the road,in the wake of the Fast Motor Car.
It all seems to make sense, and when other quite reasonable and friendly looking types arrive and treat you like a long lost family member you feel oddly elated, a little peturbed but when you come to a year has passed and you find yourself on some Alpine glacier, with flash recollections of weekends, gear buying trips and parties. Yo have, in short, become a member of The Cult..
In reply to Alun:
Power and status, in a climbing club? lol
> (In reply to bedspring)
>
> The only way a climbing club could get me join (or stay joined) would be if they could guarantee that there is no internal politics, and that there aren't long-term members who are more interested in consolidating their power and status
>
> The only way a climbing club could get me join (or stay joined) would be if they could guarantee that there is no internal politics, and that there aren't long-term members who are more interested in consolidating their power and status
Power and status, in a climbing club? lol
In reply to Mark Stevenson:
Nice summing up Mark.
Cliques, well some people on this forum have met up on here and form their own group that go off on their own on meets, book huts, hostels, bunk barns, etc. You will know of some of them, I know of at least three. No different to club ones, just they are not all in a club ATM but some will join one and some will not. They are just people who get on with each other an do things together.
Nice summing up Mark.
Cliques, well some people on this forum have met up on here and form their own group that go off on their own on meets, book huts, hostels, bunk barns, etc. You will know of some of them, I know of at least three. No different to club ones, just they are not all in a club ATM but some will join one and some will not. They are just people who get on with each other an do things together.
In reply to Alun:
Can I assume your attitude is based on actual experience?
I have been a member of four clubs and none have any significant 'internal politics' and certainly no 'long-term members who are more interested in consolidating their power and status'. Usually it is the opposite - it's very difficult to get volunteers to be on the committee.
I would hate to be in a club that is formal or has onerous rules and regulations. Fortunately, in 22 years, I never have been.
Can I assume your attitude is based on actual experience?
I have been a member of four clubs and none have any significant 'internal politics' and certainly no 'long-term members who are more interested in consolidating their power and status'. Usually it is the opposite - it's very difficult to get volunteers to be on the committee.
I would hate to be in a club that is formal or has onerous rules and regulations. Fortunately, in 22 years, I never have been.
In reply to El Greyo:
You can assume that, and with several clubs, none of which I will name here, of course.
I'm not surprised - it means you do all the donkey work, while not actually being allowed to make a difference, as the important decisions are usually made elsewhere.
Anyway I'm sorry, I don't mean to be overly negative. I'm glad your club experencies have been good ones.
> Can I assume your attitude is based on actual experience?
You can assume that, and with several clubs, none of which I will name here, of course.
> Usually it is the opposite - it's very difficult to get volunteers to be on the committee.
I'm not surprised - it means you do all the donkey work, while not actually being allowed to make a difference, as the important decisions are usually made elsewhere.
Anyway I'm sorry, I don't mean to be overly negative. I'm glad your club experencies have been good ones.
In reply to Alun:
you mean things like which crag to go to, or what meal to cook at the next hut meet?
> as the important decisions are usually made elsewhere
you mean things like which crag to go to, or what meal to cook at the next hut meet?
In reply to Simon Caldwell:
what colour to paint the hut walls, should children younger than a certain age be allowed on meets, who is willing to clear the garden at the hut I did loads of work on my own last year but nobody has helped and by the way this is the third time I've asked the president to let me write something in the newsletter about my trip to Scotland last year and I don't why Jim's article got published it was probably as a favour because he cleaned the hut drains two years ago but didn't do a good job now I propose that we should have a meeting to discuss the matter of dogs jonny bought his dog to the last meet and I swear it peeed on my bag well i don't mind too much but if what if he'd bitten jane's hand off and quite frankly i don't like the design on this years t-shirt last year we had some socks done and i thought it was a better idea can you tell i'm bored?
what colour to paint the hut walls, should children younger than a certain age be allowed on meets, who is willing to clear the garden at the hut I did loads of work on my own last year but nobody has helped and by the way this is the third time I've asked the president to let me write something in the newsletter about my trip to Scotland last year and I don't why Jim's article got published it was probably as a favour because he cleaned the hut drains two years ago but didn't do a good job now I propose that we should have a meeting to discuss the matter of dogs jonny bought his dog to the last meet and I swear it peeed on my bag well i don't mind too much but if what if he'd bitten jane's hand off and quite frankly i don't like the design on this years t-shirt last year we had some socks done and i thought it was a better idea can you tell i'm bored?
In reply to J1234:
Generally most of my friends are reasonably high powered, socially successful and good looking. (and I don't really tolerate ugly people)
A club made up of people like this would get me to join but currently it seems a far fetched possiblity in the climbing world.
Generally most of my friends are reasonably high powered, socially successful and good looking. (and I don't really tolerate ugly people)
A club made up of people like this would get me to join but currently it seems a far fetched possiblity in the climbing world.
In reply to Alun:
Sorry, my question was a little bit accusatory there. I have occassionally come across people with preconceived attitudes to clubs that have turned out to be based only on hearsay or prejudice. Sounds like you've been unlicky.
On the other hand perhaps I've been lucky. I have always thought of climbers as being generally averse to petty politics and power games. Maybe I have rose-tinted specs.
Sorry, my question was a little bit accusatory there. I have occassionally come across people with preconceived attitudes to clubs that have turned out to be based only on hearsay or prejudice. Sounds like you've been unlicky.
On the other hand perhaps I've been lucky. I have always thought of climbers as being generally averse to petty politics and power games. Maybe I have rose-tinted specs.
In reply to Glyn Jones:
Look at his profile picture, he already said he cannot tolerate ugly people.
Look at his profile picture, he already said he cannot tolerate ugly people.
In reply to Wingman:
Funnily enough I wouldn`t want to be in a club with people who viewed themselves like this.
> (In reply to bedspring)
>
> Generally most of my friends are reasonably high powered, socially successful and good looking. (and I don't really tolerate ugly people)
>
>
>
> Generally most of my friends are reasonably high powered, socially successful and good looking. (and I don't really tolerate ugly people)
>
>
Funnily enough I wouldn`t want to be in a club with people who viewed themselves like this.
In reply to sutty:
No mirrors in the house then?
> (In reply to Glyn Jones)
>
> Look at his profile picture, he already said he cannot tolerate ugly people.
>
> Look at his profile picture, he already said he cannot tolerate ugly people.
No mirrors in the house then?
In reply to Alun:
We have to beg, briobe, and threaten people to get anything written for the newsletter! We'll puyblish it if you'd like, though I'll have to pretend that i wrote it (if it's any good)
> I've asked the president to let me write something in the newsletter about my trip to Scotland last year
We have to beg, briobe, and threaten people to get anything written for the newsletter! We'll puyblish it if you'd like, though I'll have to pretend that i wrote it (if it's any good)
In reply to J1234:
I wouldn't say they view themselves like that as such, at least not until they come across someone who isn't
Glyn, nah, no mirrors here.....
I wouldn't say they view themselves like that as such, at least not until they come across someone who isn't
Glyn, nah, no mirrors here.....
In reply to Wingman: As I've already said...
"... if they don't immediately value and appreciate the 'diversity' of age, experience and outlook within most clubs then they are not likely to contriubte much to the club in return."
"... if they don't immediately value and appreciate the 'diversity' of age, experience and outlook within most clubs then they are not likely to contriubte much to the club in return."
In reply to cragratrich: I joined a club because I only knew one person who climbed and he was moving away with his new job.
A quick internet search and I found my local club and went along to meet them at the pub and then went out with them on their next meet.
I am not your typical climber being very unfit and defiantly at the wrong end of the BMI scale but even the young fit rock monkeys made me feel welcome and gave me lots of encouragement.
I have made a few very good friends and lots of new acquaintances.
Our club consists of all ages from 18 upwards and people from all walks of life with a span of abilities ranging from seconding HVD to leading E silly.
All in all it is a bloody good club. (and we have a hut).
A quick internet search and I found my local club and went along to meet them at the pub and then went out with them on their next meet.
I am not your typical climber being very unfit and defiantly at the wrong end of the BMI scale but even the young fit rock monkeys made me feel welcome and gave me lots of encouragement.
I have made a few very good friends and lots of new acquaintances.
Our club consists of all ages from 18 upwards and people from all walks of life with a span of abilities ranging from seconding HVD to leading E silly.
All in all it is a bloody good club. (and we have a hut).
In reply to Susat: This question of contact with members of clubs is important. Doesn't have to cost much. It costs £20 a year to join my club (Lancs CaAving & Climbing) for which you get 6 newsletters a year, access to the web site and to a Yahoo group e-mail which keeps everyone (who is online) in the loop. Also get a professionally printed Journal every second year. Doesn't seem bad, does it? Look on our web site and see what you think. http://www.lccc.org.uk/
In reply to J1234:
Free booze and pies.
I got put off CCs when I was a novice. My mate and I were at one of our local crags one evening and Chester Climbing Club showed up and tried to claim every decent route by fixing top ropes on them. There was zero consideration given to 'non club' climbers, and to top it off one of their number started shouting inept instructions to me whilst I was half way up a route. Not that I'd asked for 'instructions'.
The impression I was left with was very poor. I can see the validity of CCs but for me one of the main attractions of climbing is the feeling of independence and non-affiliation.
A CC would need to pay me to join.
Free booze and pies.
I got put off CCs when I was a novice. My mate and I were at one of our local crags one evening and Chester Climbing Club showed up and tried to claim every decent route by fixing top ropes on them. There was zero consideration given to 'non club' climbers, and to top it off one of their number started shouting inept instructions to me whilst I was half way up a route. Not that I'd asked for 'instructions'.
The impression I was left with was very poor. I can see the validity of CCs but for me one of the main attractions of climbing is the feeling of independence and non-affiliation.
A CC would need to pay me to join.
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