UKC

I've had a pair of Berghaus Explorer boots for ages, they've been to the Himalayas, Kilimanjaro, Dolomites and many trips in the Lake District, and they've finally decided enough is enough.
I'm looking to replace them, and the first thing was whether to get a mountaineering boot that could be used for winter mountaineering and could take crampons, ie. the La Sportiva Trango. However, this would almost certainly be over kill for the vast majority of my walking which is day trips in the Lakes/a few long distance paths in Europe.

I've had a brief look around and these are few that look good:

Berghaus Explorer V, a direct replacement of my current boots: http://www.fieldandtrek.com/aff/AA/cat_id/FOOTHILL/product-Berghaus-Explore...

Scarpa ZG40:
http://www.fieldandtrek.com/aff/AA/cat_id/FOOTHILL/product-Scarpa-ZG-40-GTX...

Scarpa ZG65:
http://www.climbers-shop.com/6564/walking_boots/Scarpa_ZG65_gtx.aspx

Does anyone know the difference between the ZG40/ZG65? Also, any other recommendations? I'm not looking to spend over £120 unless it's a mountaineering boot.
Thanks,
Martin

In reply to davies00:
I have the leather Scarpa ZG thingy - superbly comfortable and supportive but with the high rubber rand and goretex line can nget a l;ittle hot and sweaty on hot countries.

They do a similar leather unlined model called the scarpa nepal which is sposed to be very good .

In reply to davies00:in an ideal world you need a winter boot and a walking boot.for a walking boot have you looked at the scarpa sl m3? a nice 4 season boot that take a c1 crampon for winter walks! may be a bit above your budget though.

In reply to davies00:

Hi mate,
all I would say is that I had Scarpa Mescalito's for years, they are so good I bought another pair from here second hand. The reason I like them is because they are not goretex lined, anyway back to the point!

I bought a pair of ZG65 on sale for £80 thinking they would be fine because I have always had Scarpa's. Excellent boots, however, I had to get rid as they were ridiculously narrow, I was very disappointed and they were a "wide" fitting apparently.

I have no idea what the difference between the 2 Scarpa's is, usual answer though, try them on and see what is best. IF, you can get hold of Mescalito's, buy them, heaven!!

http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/news/article.asp?UAN=399

Den

I liken them to porn for my feet, I know, too much info!

In reply to vincentvega:

That's the conclusion I have come to, as any boot capable of taking crampons will be too heavy/hot for summer hiking in the Lakes.
I am interested in getting into winter mountaineering but I'm off to Uni in September and hopefully the clubs there would be able to lend me stuff if I needed it.
On the mountaineering boot topic, what about the Scarpa Mirage:
http://www.rockrun.com/products-Mirage-GTX_FT-TM-MGTX.htm
At £140 it would probably just about be possible (grovels to parents at this point), but are these too hot for day trips?
I have a mate who swears by the La Sportiva Trangos as well... too many to choose from!

In reply to davies00: if your interested in winter mountaineering id take a plunge and go all out for a b3 winter boot i.e cumbre or nepal are the obvious ones. the mirage may be fine at first but if your like me you will soon get the bug and need a stiffer boot!!!

In reply to davies00:
what about the scarpa charmoz though?
http://www.wildtrak.com/product.asp?ID=1373

bit out of the price range though
i've got a pair myself and are very comfortable to walk in and are b2

can't see why they wouldn't be fine in the summer to be honest

In reply to davies00: Hey, I work in Craigdon Mountain sports aberdeen and have been on many a training course on feet and boot fitting. I'd have to go along with the person that said buy two types of boots, however I know that for most this can be a bit outside of the budget. You WILL need to get properly fitting for a pair of boots that are a bit sturdier as the Berghaus explorer boots that you have currently been using have a very flexible mid sole. they generally tend to be quite a wide fit at both the toe box and the heel. There is nothing wrong with going a bit narrower at the heel and if you are looking for a stiffer boot that could perhaps do you for both then I would absolutely say that you MUST go for something with a narrower heel. The foot is incredibly mobile and if you do not get a boot that holds the foot nicely at the heel is it has a stiffer midsole you will get heel slip and youre on the fast track to blister central. I would recommend for a good all round boot either the scarpa SL which is a leather non goretex lined boot (slightly cooler than a GTX boot). It has a very good quality italian leather upper and like the chap said before is capable of taking a walking crampon (Grivel G10 classic type thing). The best one by far to go for is the altberg Mallerstang available in five different width fittings with a good narrow heel, crampon shelf for a 10 point walking crampon (preferably strap on as in Grivel classic series). it is a fanstastic thick italian leather which is surprisingly light and with a sympatex waterproof lining (just as durable as GTX but much more breathable). They are made by a factory in Ripon and are one of the last boot makers in britain. I am an acquaintance of the rep at that company and he has represented Altberg at every boot fitting and orthotics course I have been on. They have an excellent knowledge of feet and as a consequence have by far a superior fit!

Hope this isnt too much but it should be a good opinion rather than the tonnes of confusing and contradictory bumff that you can find on the net!

Megan

In reply to vincentvega: By the way my Sportiva Nepal Extremes are the most comfortable boots I've ever owned and am toying with the idea of wearing them in summer etc too instead of my Scarpa Sls which are my normal summer boots! Get a boot that fits and you'll never want to take it off whatever the season!

In reply to davies00:
My brother uses Scarpa Mirages. If you're lightweight and skinny like him, the Mirage will be plenty stiff enough for winter climbing up to Grade III at least, and pretty much anything at the mid grades in the Alps. He can front-point up near vertical ice with ease in these things. However, this only works if you're very light, as they do flex a bit when I wear them.

They're also very comfortable for UK summer use, as they are designed as an Alpine boot so feel cool when it's hot (but are still warm enough when it's cold).

In reply to Alex Roddie: The shorter your feet and the lighter you are the less likely a boot is to flex. You will find that a lot of women or small men can use a B2 boot right up into the higher grades on vertical ice. Also no matter the features of the boot it has to fit. Most brands will do a staggering number of styles for this very reason. if you fit that manufacturer and they make the boot with the features that you want then you will buy that boot - simple as

That's interesting! They are the mountaineering boots I'd go for I think. As I've never done any winter mountaineering before I wouldn't want to jump in at the deep end and spend £300 before trying it out!

Thanks for all the advice, keep it coming!
Martin

In reply to davies00:

Following up on what others have said about ideally having two pairs of boots for summer and winter, I'd say (based on 25 years of walking climbing and only recently realising this!) that you really need three pairs!

1. A super-light pair for warm, dry-weather walking. Perhaps even just a pair of trail running shoes. Good also as approach boots to rock climbs.

2. A decent 3-4 season walking boot (Scarpa SLs suit me but Raichle, La Sportiva and others do equally good boots that may fit you better). These are ideal for wet walks in the Lakes, scrambly days on dry rock and will stretch to easy UK winter mountaineering and alpine.

3. A full-on 4 season technical boot for really cold weather and steep ice/mixed climbing (I like my Nepal Extremes but again, a question of fit and where you'll be climbing).

Yes, I could use the Nepal Extremes for walking but:
a) however good the fit, they just aren't as comfortable because they are so much more rigid and higher cut
b) they are hot
c) they are made with softer climbing rubber so will wear out quicker than a pair of hiking boots (also the lack of flex can lead to more uneven wear and an early retirement)
d) they cost much more than my (admittedly dirt cheap, bought in the sale) SLs.

My advise is get a good comfy pair of B1 boots now. Most of the time they will be ideal. They will be enough to try out winter mountaineering and even if you love that and buy a dedicated pair of technical B2/B3 boots, you'll still use a good comfy pair of hiking boots so there is no additional long-term cost, in fact it is probably cheaper.

In reply to Smeggles:

2nd the recommendation for Alt-Bergs. Best fitting boot I've had in ages and excellent quality

In reply to Atholl de-Saint-Croix:

Seconded. Wonderful boots.

In reply to davies00:

I would buy a B2 boot (eg. Scarpa Manta) because I like steep hiking but a B1 boot (eg., Scarpa SL) will be a better compromise if you do lots of flatter stuff.

In reply to all posters on this thread:

I'm in a similar situation to davies00 looking for my first pair of boots for general mountain use and getting me from the car to the route.

Just wanted to say thanks to all who have replied as i've found your info and links helpful.

In reply to davies00:

No-one here has mentioned Asolo!

smudged by many, but after years using Altbergs in the Army, these guys come a second best. (my opinion)

I have 2 pairs, the Matrix GTX, summer, Autumn use, and the Powermatic 200 for winter, and even takes a crampon. cracking leather boot on a budget, and after waxing, rivers are no worries

beautiful boots, but like many posters have mentioned, get fitted.

some shops even offer day trials now, where you take the boots for 24hrs to 'test drive' them

happy searching

I went to LakesClimber today in Ambleside and purchased my new boots. La Sportiva Trango's were the ones! Staff in the shop were VERY helpful, letting me spend about 1hour trying on different sizes, different sock combinations, showing me new ways to lace them up etc. Hopefully test them out soon!
Thanks for all the advice.
Martin

In reply to davies00: have a look at Meindl borneo PRO MFS had a pair for a year love them

In reply to davies00:

ZG40 is more substantial, especially in the midsole, than the ZG65 and much better for higher mountain rough terrain.

Have you thought about a B1 type boot - Scarpa SL/Asolo Powermatic, which won't be over the top for most of your walking but will also take a flexible crampon for easy winter routes?