UKC

This can't just be a coincidence - Exactly the same thing happened to my climbing partner last August bank holiday in whilst climbing at Sennon.

"The BBC reports that he fell 25ft onto a ledge, and then the same distance - presumably onto the deck. We're awaiting more details; if you have them, contact us"

This sounds like a carbon copy of the accident (different route though)- does anyone have any more specific details on what happened? Was this and abseiling accident?

In reply to Darren:

Well, what did your mate do? (Thanks for reading the UKClimbing news pages, by the way. I was about to post the link to this story....)

It would be odd in the extreme though to ab down Demo Route. I can imagine falling off the nose move - not that I've done the route, but the distance sounds like the "moving round the nose" bit - but quite how you'd go so far afterwards mystifies me. Unless he was (a) soloing or (b) didn't have much gear in or (c) belayer error.

Anyways, more details very welcome. The intention is to inform people so that they won't make the same mistakes, such as using too little gear, or not watching while their mate does a hard move, or...

Charles

In reply to Charles Arthur, UKC editor:

I'd agree, it seems an unlikely place to be abbing down.

I'm very wary about speculating, but I've seen a number of people lead it as a single pitch, and stick very little gear in the top half. You don't get much chance as you go round the nose, and it eases after that, so sometimes folks just head for the top. Though straightforward climbing, a slip at this point would lead to a big fall, and the pull on your last piece of gear, the other side of the nose, might be at a strange angle. I've certainly watched leaders I'd reckoned would come close to hitting the deck if they fell.

But, I'd got no idea what happened in this case. But the distances quoted (which may or may not be accurate) suggest to me he fell after the nose.

End of speculation!

In reply to Carolyn:

I've led it in one pitch. i stuck bomber gear in on one rope just before the nose, at head height or higher, with a very long extender. I have seen people put no gear in the chimney, which is the tricky bit. If you do this and then slip before the nose, before arranging more gear, you would deck it, I should think. Or at least come close.

In reply to Charles Arthur, UKC editor:

Sounds a bit strange but I have no idea what the name of the climb was. It was an HVS corner off-width for the first pitch which he lead. At the belay point the sky opened up turning the nice corner crack into streaming torrent. Needless to say I wasn't going to second it so we decided to leave it a while and wait for the shower to pass. My mate was going to scramble down from the belay ledge but decided to ab off a spike instead. This was with the view to retrieving his gear and repeating the pitch in the dry. This never happened as the rope pealed off the spike - a nasty combination of wet rock, wet rope and poor judgement. He took a 25 ft fall to a ledge, bounced and fell the same distance again. A pretty horrific thing to watch! He suffered quite a few broken bones but is back to full fitness now thank god.

In reply to Darren:

The obvious lesson being, if you don't mind me pointing it out, don't ab off rock spikes that are wet. It's generally a bad idea abbing off spikes anyway. Gear costs less than the inconvenience of the hospital trip.

It's worth reiterating: abseiling is the single most dangerous thing you do when climbing. (If that makes sense.) You're relying entirely on gear - or even no gear, as in this case - and almost always have no contact with the rock while you do it, so your chances of arresting a fall are virtually zero.

Thanks to those too who've done (or watched) folk on Demo Route: the points about gear make sense. Is there no gear when you first reach around the nose to get your hands vertical, then? That seems the obvious place to put the gear off a second rope.

Charles

In reply to Darren:

I think it would be almost impossible to fall 25ft onto a ledge on Demo Route. There is only one ledge and you belay from it. You go up a few feet to put gear in before swinging round the nose to the left. If you fell from beyond the nose I don't think you'd hit the ledge and if you were 25ft above it surely you would be on top of the crag?. There is a ledge below the last section of the climb but as I remember it it was quite incut.

It's probably just the media getting its facts wrong again.

In reply to Dave Collier: According to the BBC TV local news, and the local paper (The Cornishman), he fell off "the 'demolition' route". According to the paper, "demolition route is considered to be of easy to medium difficulty".

In the guide, Demolition gets E6, although we could argue about that.

Standards are high in Cornwall!

In reply to andy2:

So we still don't know if this was an abseiling accident or not?

It just goes to show though that in the space of year two near fatal accidents have ocurred at the same crag - probably laods more have gone unreported nationwide. Climbing is now hugely popular which inevitably means that more and more people (often with little outdoor experience) are placing themselves to potentially life threatening positions in inaccessable locations. This isn't to say that very experienced climbers don't have accidents but it does seem to be the case that the very real danger and vulnerability that climbers often place themselves in has become somewhat Passé. It's just a shame it takes accidents to remind us of this.

In reply to Charles Arthur, UKC editor: There is gear as you reach round the nose, it's pretty easy to slot a good Friend in, you could also place a Hex if you don't mind standing off-balance while you fiddle around.

In reply to andy2:
As a local, I have often spent many an hour trying to translate from Cornishman speak to English. A recent accident at Chair Ladder was apparently caused by a climbers "holdfast giving way"!
BTW there is very good gear just below the move round the nose and you might hit the ledge but shouldnt go any further.

In reply to Darren:

I was at Sennen a few years back and this guy from, I think it was Swindon Council, was trying to simultaneously teach six guys to lead and some of the guys seemed to have learning difficulties. Anyway this "instructor" first came to my attention when he abseiled BETWEEN the double ropes I was belaying someone up a climb on! He continued to show complete incompetence throughout the day. As we were packing up one of his charge decided to try and abseil off an arete. Needless to say he took an almighty swing and thumped into the wall just to the right of Demo Route. Another climber and I managed to haul him back up to the top clearly in great pain and with an ankle the size of a melon. The "instructor" arrived on the scene and just didn't have a clue about first aid or injuries and thought this guy would be ok in a minute. So we got him wrapped up and comfortable and I went down to the village to phone an ambulance. They sent an air ambulance which arrived about 20 minutes later and the blessed "instructor" just sat there doing nothing while the chopper hovered about looking for a victim. I persuaded the geaser it might be a good idea to raise his hands above his head signalling where the accident victim was to the chopper which then landed nearby and took him away.

It's hardly surprising accidents happen especially when you get "instructors" who aren't even competent. Personally I think things like SPA need a major revamp as there are too many people out there with SPA who are inexperienced or totally unsuited to instructing (and I could tell you about another complete idiot of an instructor, PK, hauling people up the In Pin about 4 years back who claimed to be qualified but I won't bore you with that.....)

In reply to Dave Collier:
Let's not start this SPA thing again, eh?

It's been done to death.

In reply to Charles Arthur, UKC editor:

>abseiling is the single most dangerous thing you do when
>climbing

Quite agree.

>You're relying entirely on gear

Absolutely. Abseiling is something you do *on* a rope - it doesn't work otherwise. Climbing you do *with* a rope - usually, but it works just as well without one. It's only when you stop climbing and start falling that the rope comes in to play (things like tension traverses aside). It's a bit like motorcycling. Riding a motorcycle is *not* dangerous. Falling off a motorcycle, however, is not recommended as a regular pastime.

The other thing about abbing is that it involves moves which are at odds with and unfamiliar from most of the rest of climbing. Quite apart from gear problems, a lot of abbing accidents are caused by people losing control either vertically (over-fast descent) or horizontally (taking unexpected swings etc - ask Doug Scott about his first ab off the top of the Ogre).

Abbing is one of those things which is best practised before you actually need to do it. I'd say the same for prusiking. When you're deep in the doo-doo is not the time to realise that you don't know how to get out of it.

In my scuba training I am constantly required to practise things which I will likely never have to do. However, if I don't know how to do them then I *will* die if the need ever arises. I take a similar approach to basic rescue techniques in climbing.

In reply to Charles Arthur, UKC editor:

>>Thanks to those too who've done (or watched) folk on Demo Route: the points about gear make sense. Is there no gear when you first reach around the nose to get your hands vertical, then? <<

Charles, without giving too much away, there's ample opportunity for gear placements (on both pitches). Specifically, from the belay at the top of the first pitch a large nut placement is possible off the belay, followed by a cam under the nose itself, and then any number of medium nuts up the last slab. I can't any reason that a climber could fall more than a couple of metres at most from any part of this climb.

Hope this helps.
Steve.

In reply to Charles Arthur, UKC editor: Every sympathy with the unfortunates, however isnt climbing inherently potentially dangerous? Isnt it that, that gives us the buzz, gets us gripped and provides us with the psychological barriers. Can we really be surprised when someone is hurt, or worse?

"The intention is to inform people so that they won`t make the same mistakes, such as using too little gear, or not watching while their mate does a hard move, or..."

Or as my parents kept telling me- make sure you fasten your shoe laces or it will end in tears.
jim.