UKC

Karma Kings is a relatively short route at Raven Crag, Walthwaite, Langdale. Originally climbed by Dave Birkett in 1998 and described in the FRCC Langdale Guide as "A serious destiny-defining route which accepts the challenge of the studiously-blank east-facing wall". It is given a grade of E7 6c.

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Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/older.html?month=04&year=2008#n43832

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: Good effort George. I'd like to think those junior club sessions at Kendal Wall were the basis of your success - or maybe not!

I belayed a mate on this around 8 years ago now. After only managing to find one skyhook placement about 6 feet up, to help prevent a tumble off the belay ledge, he reluctantly put a sling in the tree and did it after a few goes on a top rope and a couple of fat reefers to relax. The runout after the hard climbing was something else. I'd have thought it's been done before without the tree, but maybe I'm wrong! Belayers beware, the ledge is one giant ants nest.

In reply to danm:
How environmentally unsound! It has been done before without the tree or the skyhook on at least two occasions, E8 proposed. I belayed on one of them.

In reply to Robertostallioni: I did the second ascent, no tree. I think Dave used the tree, but it was probably about 10 years ago and I'm not sure anymore.

In reply to dirtbag1: Good effort Gorgeous.

In reply to dirtbag1:
Was dylo 3rd or 4th?

In reply to Robertostallioni:
I'm just guessing, because I don't know for sure, but if no-one did it between me and Dylo that'd make him 3rd (obviously).

In reply to dirtbag1:

I climbed the tree

Good stuff. sloppy reporting here though so loads of questions!
so did he flash it or what? Has it been onsighted/flashed before? How hard's the climbing frenchgradewise? Can you reach this tree off the route to sling it (not cheating?) or do you have to climb the actual tree first (which is surely cheating?)

In reply to Steve Ramsden:
I guess it wasn't a flash, or else it would have been mentioned.
It's not been flashed on-sighted before (I guess) 'cos it's hard and scary enough and difficult to read enough to make it a very unattractive proposition.
The french grade is not relevant 'cos it's a trad route!
I don't think you'd want to be slinging the tree mid-route due to the insecurity of the moves and the fact the tree is behind you and involves a long reach backwards, but I can't remember exactly, maybe the tree's grown....(Gorgeous didn't use the tree though...)
It's not my place, or your place to decide what's cheating, ask Dave, he's the first ascentionist and what he says goes.
D

In reply to dirtbag1:

Hmm... not sure I agree with that sentiment - if the first ascentionist preplaces loads of gear unplaceable on lead with long slings on it that doesn't mean it's not cheating/dodgy, just that 'cheating' becomes the accepted way to do the route. Doing it without any 'cheating' is still a bigger challenge, no matter what the first ascentionist does. All a bit pointless here since he didn't sling it anyway, I just disagree with what you put above.

Anyway, well done George.

In reply to abarro81:
just read that back - i'm not implying Birkett preplaced loads of stuff, just an example of if someone else did on something else.

In reply to abarro81:
I agree with what you're saying, but the word 'cheating' is far too strong in this context.
Maybe I wasn't clear enough in my post above. Anyone who leads this route deserves respect, if they can do it in a better style than the first ascentionist even more so.
But I must stress that Dave's ethic is neither 'dodgy' nor 'cheating' in any regard I know of, especially in this instance.
D

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Oi Dirtbag1, it is Drew? hows it going you Rock star? When you back in the lakes? any comps coming up?

are you keen for DWS? get out to mallorca in the summer, i should be heading out sometime in the august after i get back form the states.

George

In reply to climbinggeorge123:
Hey Georgeous.
Doing the World Cups and stuff this year mate, so training like a fiend, no time for socialising with the likes of you.
Good effort with your tradding, not bad results for a fatboy.
I'll be up soon to check on you.
D

In reply to dirtbag1: well your missing out. i didnt know you used to be a bit of a trad meister. you missing your van, or you probably had enough of it, in good hands now.

where are the world champs held? good luck with that if i dont catch you before!

In reply to climbinggeorge123:
Don't you be worrying about the comps mate, you stick to your trad.
I'm not missing the van....yet. I've bought myself a sporty little hairdressers car, two seat and a soft top, de rigeur mirrored aviators, all very Top Gun if you know what I mean.
Rock on mate.
D
P.S. have a good time in the States and watch out for rednecks, they always go for us pretty ones.

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

Woop, George strikes again! Well done mate!
Hear ur heading to Yosemite?
cu

GM

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: "The french grade is not relevant 'cos it's a trad route" may as well give it a sport grade if you going to 'dog it'. Onsight something hard!

In reply to onsighting:
Are you proposing using french grades for any head-pointed trad lines?

In reply to Robertostallioni:


Many are Robertohorseshit: french grade then an American fall grade R, R/X, X

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Horses for courses Mick. Cruxless pumpfests yes, sportgrade useful indicator.
Single crux move desperates no, british grade more helpful.
You can take that to the bank.

In reply to Robertostallioni: Nar i am trying to imply is that i have never heard of him onsighting anything hard! anyone can dog a route to death, you dont want to be known as a dogger do you? Plus its a bit ironic 'lakes trad campaign' not really lakes ethic headpointing is it?

In reply to onsighting:

Uhhhh yes, a long tradition of pre-practice before the lead .... and onsight of course.

It's in the bank Roberto!

yeh good one.... anyway it was a good effort on Impact days it really was.But its BORING now, hearing what routes he has headpointed, dogged, stunted may as well have his own blog page. Come on loads of people headpoint E7, stop bigging him."Just over four hours ago" and "Tom Dixon who phoned through this news - from the Ambleside, Cumbria to Saratoga Springs, NY where I'm based for 3 weeks" haha someone desperatley wanted to get on Ukclimbing....... bit sad you much admit!

In reply to onsighting: Oh get a life.

In reply to mat098: Another kendall boy, anyway enough from me, just expresing my feelings. Good effort again George on impact days most impressed. Enjoy the valley and lets here some hard onsighting form ya hay!

In reply to onsighting:

Glad you are paying attention.

In reply to onsighting:
anyone can dog a route to death,


I have seen George climb. He is headpointing- a couple of top ropes. He is fluid and if you've seen impact day you'd realse that everyone couldn't dog up it. He is an exceptional climber and will in a couple of years no doubt be at the very top of british trad.

In reply to Franco Cookson:

Correct. Not so, '"dogging" a route is climbing from the ground-up and hanging on the gear for a rest, to work the moves, to place more gear - you still have to climb between the gear, which on some of these top end routes could be terminal - i.e., death.

In reply to onsighting: a dogger, wat the ec are you on about, i climb because i enjoy it. im not stupid enough to risk jumping ground up on a dirty death slab route which hardly get climbed and looks like its got loose rock on it. The way i see it, is as long as i am honest with wat i have done and enjoy wat i am doing then bob's your uncle fanny's your ant.
i enjoy onsighting just as much as headpointing routes.

In reply to climbinggeorge123:

Spot on. The only real cheating is lying about how you cheated.