UKC

"On first inspection the crag seems a sodden mass of bleak seepage. If you approach it with an open mind though, the exceptional central block will put you in better spirits. The free-standing iconic pinnacle, towering in to the clear Moors air, was largely unclimbed until the late 90s, when Adam Van Lopik climbed many of the poorly protected hard routes..."

"The honeymoon period between the late 60's and the early 80's saw many of the areas great classics climbed for the first time. The climbing boom was mirrored by the boom in industry on the Tees and both have since become dormant with the destruction of so many jobs and the scarcity of climbers in the area."

Franco Cookson and Dave Warburton explore their local crags on the North York Moors.

With photo's, area and accommodation guides and route recommendations.

Read More: http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=893

In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC: Big thank you to Franco and Dave for this - from myself and Mick.

Cheers guys,

Jack

In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:
Wot no Whitestonecliffe?

In reply to Toreador: We didn't think it was truly ON the Moors, it gets a mention though.

In reply to DaveWarb: Fair play, good mix of fact and opinion, looks very professional, well done.How long did it take to compile?

In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:

Nice work. Lots of good suggestions across the grades.

Well done.

Y.

In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:

Good article and some ace pictures, good job.

In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC: Good article and nice one Franco and Dave for getting the quality crags on the moors some attention!

In reply to DaveWarb: Whitestonecliff is definitely on the moors, especially if you're including Filey! That and peak scar are both great crags and very different in character to the others you've described. I reckon they'll see even less traffic now with the new rockfax guide though.

In reply to waps100:

Don't get Franco started!

Anyway, the only way that Whitestone could see less traffic would be if we stopped going, I've been climbing there several times a year for 16 years and only ever met one other party there!

In reply to waps100: They are both Mentioned, but not in great detail (space and our feelings), but we've put a link to Climbonline.

Theres soo many great crags that doing them all would be more like a guide than an article . We were mainly thinking of Sandstone.

In reply to DaveWarb:
"Cosy Corner - Jam or layback? - take your pick"

I went for padding up the left side of the slab. Perhaps this is why we found it a bit hard for VDiff

In reply to Toreador: Well as you well know the crag is a sandbag!

In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:

I'm sure Franco moaned about my book only featuring Scugdale, The Wainstones, Ravenscar, Highcliff and Park Nab, so no-one would ever go anywhere else!


Chris



PS Despite what the local yoofs might say my spelling of Highcliff is the correct version!

In reply to Chris Craggs: True, but Franco's is a Article, yours is a guide Anyhow, we've mentioned the other crags that are certainly worth a visit, im sure you would agree with them?

http://www.rockfax.com/databases/results_crag.html?id=418
You leave me no choice... have a check at YOUR spelling

In reply to Toreador:


There is an old saying int dale;
"Never cross the A1 to climb!"

I believe they say the same thing ont moors.

In reply to DaveWarb:

Don't get me wrong nice article and pics, just amused at the kettle and black situation!
Well spotted on the Highcliff(e) that was written way back before I checked it - now changed!


Chris

In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:

I think this is a great article - well done guys. You've put some effort into creating a concise, highly readable and interesting picture of your home patch. Its really good to get a local's view on the crags and routes, and provides something that complements even the best guidebooks (yes Chris Craggs - I do mean yours!).

In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC: excellent article I was up that way a while ago and needed advice like this (which i got via the forums anyway) but it's good to see some of the places i visited mentioned..

i never did quite make it to whitestone cliff tho - my mates were just too chicken!

In reply to Chris Craggs: Yeh, im sure it's only light hearted anyway. We seemed to think we had made it too big as it was, we were going to mention Oak Crag, Beacon Scar and Peak Scar more fully, but decided we would be unlikely to be able to get pics of the last two (to far to walk / get a lift and theres NO public transport from Castleton where we live LOL)

I think your guide will encourage people to visit (which is good), indeed i've seen quite a few people at Park Nab and Wainstones brandishing the Rockfax Guide!, i just hope people don't forget about the 'esoteric crags' they're worth a visit, i'd love to meet a group at Oak Crag or similar but i can't see it happening.

In reply to DaveWarb:
I've got loads of pictures of Peak Scar you could have used.

They're all rubbish mind, it's too gloomy to photograph easily, and you can't get far enough away for good panoramic shots.

In reply to Toreador: Lop them on here if you've got a minute. Or if there on your gallery i'll put them on, just as this is a resource for people to use.. it would be quite helpful? Pictures of anywhere would be great.

Great article. Alot more mature and conservative than I expected. Welldone.

Iam Glad you didnt include The Moors Limestone. It deserves a whole article of its own. Once you have explored Whitestone a little you will no what i mean.

In reply to Toreador:

I wondered about doing a free MiniGuide for Peak Scar actually - but of course that would be one more reason for folks not to buy the 'definitive'!


Chris

Beacon scar has to be on your next weekend plan for both off you. In my Opinion, if you choose the right routes and don't die on the descent, its got the best routes on the moors.

In reply to IanJackson: It's getting there mate.

In reply to Toreador: great photos Simon. Those photos of whitestone have got me all sweaty.

In reply to DaveWarb: fair point, its worth the effort to find a way.

Try and find a bored injured climber to drive you there one time. Maybe he could take photos.

In reply to Chris Craggs: Exactly.

(Simon - Quality, cheers)

In reply to IanJackson: Can you drive yet? Have you seen the Scugdale thread about the wedding ring, i reckoned if you told your local CMC members then maybe someone might find it.

I've not climbed properly for a couple of weeks, being feeling off and at the moment Franco's Exams are not corrolating with mine, so soloing is the only real thing to do and i can't be arsed bouldering at Cpt Cooks because the routes i want to do there need a rope (cockshaws and Cooks Crags) I will be ok when i pass my test next week

In reply to IanJackson:
Have you done Clutcher? Well worth it, a classic chimney crack, just a pity the pigeons use it as a toilet

In reply to Chris Craggs:

Do it! I already own Northern England, Northern Limestone and Yorkshire Gritstone, but am looking at getting the latest edition of Yorkshire Limestone as mine is a very old edition from a charity shop. I'll be buying the new North East England when it comes out.

If you live near an area I think its worth having several guidebooks. I like having the definitive guides, but until I've climbed most of the routes in Northern England, its the book that will go to the crag with me.

In reply to Toreador: I havent done Clutcher. Chris recommended it me, i became worried! Its on the to do list!

I bivied on the left hand side last Monday(I was walking), I was amazed at how thick the vegetation is on that side already. Will probably be more pleasant over the winter months.

In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:

Great article by the way guys, do keep meaning to get over there more, I've only managed one visit to Scugdale since I moved here in Jan and that got aborted midway through due to rain. Trouble is to many crags and not enough time, all the yorkshire git and limestone south of me, the lakes to the west, northumberland to the east and the moors to the east.

In reply to Duncan_S: I have always fancied Northumberland, until i realised its quicker and easier to get to the lakes. When i drive, i'll probably pop up there for a bit.

In reply to IanJackson:

We were over there at the end of March/beginning of April and it was bad even then, brambles and trees rather than the usual nettles. And getting from there to the right hand end (as recommended in the guidebook) is as good as impossible now.

Gamin and Yangtze are currently unclimbale due to the vegetation. I'm trying to find out if a gardening session is feasible without risking a huge fine due to being an SSSI or some such!

In reply to DaveWarb:

Good article, certainly looks like there's enough there to keep a punter like me happy! I'll have to take a look if I'm ever down that way.

In reply to DaveWarb:

Out of interest how do you get to the lakes at the moment?

In reply to Toby S: Certainly, you'll like the rock as well. Give any of us a bell if you need someone to hold your ropes.

In reply to Duncan_S: WE got the train once... that was expensive and time consuming. Luckily, Franco's father often comes along to the lakes when we do, content to walk and climb a bit. (Baisically a lift) but we stay for a few days generally.

Get a lift across with some of the older climbers around here.

In reply to DaveWarb: Hence why we don't often go. That *might* change when i get a car... but we'll see.

In reply to DaveWarb:
"Apart from the great Severe Highcliffe Crack there is barely anything of real quality in the lower grades"

other than North West Route, Heart Throb Crack, Highcliff Chimney, and Flake Crack

In reply to DaveWarb:

Damm, thought you had found some cross country public transport I didn't know about, my gf is in the lakes and doesn't drive. I'm finding it hard to belive that the only option is to get a train to manchester, then leeds, then up to darlington.

In reply to Toreador: By lower grades Franco meant Severe or lower. I'd class HS and VS and such as 'Mid-Severe grades' - sorry for this.

Agreed, NW, HTC and FC should have gotten a mention. And now they have.

In reply to Duncan_S: Hmm. We went Darlo - Newcastle - Penrith - Bus to Patterdale - Bivvy in Nethermost Cove.

In reply to Duncan_S: You live in Swaledale? Whats the local around there Limestone? Is it any good / recommended?

In reply to john howard 1: I did the first draft in a few hours, then went down dooge's, and he re-wrote it/suggested new things. That was the easy part though. I ended up soloing icey routes with our other mate- Lewis. (profile Lewis Dale) to get the snaps. I'm a bit disappointed with the pictures to be honest as we've got some better ones since, but it sort of shows the crags, apart from Round Crag, which is much bigger and harder than the bouldering picture shows.


Cheers for the kind words though, and cheers to Dooge and Lewis.

In reply to DaveWarb:

Hag Wood used to be good, if you like VS cracks. I guess it gets overgrown fairly quickly if people don't go there.

The crag facing across the valley (Applegate???) Always looked a bit chossy.

What is Orgate like? Is climbing allowed

And of course, my favorite, besest kept secret >whispers< Crag Willas.

Y.

In reply to Toreador: Heart Throb Crack and Highcliffe chimney are hardly Quality, and Flakes is hardly easy.

In reply to Franco Cookson: And Ian and the UKC people for putting it on.

In reply to Yrmenlaf: THAT is one spot i want to get to when i get my car, im not sure why, it just REALLY appeals.

In reply to DaveWarb: indeed, forgot Ian. Sorry. And the nice UKC.

In reply to Yrmenlaf:

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=297778

Y.

In reply to DaveWarb:

Isn't everything in Swaledale really chossy? I seem to have vague memories to that effect...

Anyway good effort on the article, it's really well-written and informative!

In reply to DaveWarb:

It is a superb place to be on a summer evening. I wonder if the gap in the grades might hit you though? Loads VS and below(so I'm OK), plenty E3/4 and above. Not a huge amount in between.

The hill you can see to the South has to be Buckden Pike: terrific views!

Y.

In reply to Yrmenlaf:

The crag opposite Hagg Wood is something like Whillance's Leap (?) after some horse jumping carry on way back. I poked around there as a kid - its all pretty poor, even on the Swaledale scale! In fact I think we first spotted Hagg Wood from there!


Chris

In reply to Yrmenlaf: E3/4 its the way to go ... by the summer i should be looking at them. Franco is certainly and i can follow him up stuff if needs be.

In reply to DaveWarb & Yrmenlaf:

Dave, it is limestone, not worth traveling if you have to do a mission on public transport, but once you drive you may fancy a visit over.

Hag Wood is quite nice, although the nettles have started growing which makes the walk in a bit of a drag, short as it is. The crag is still clean as I think the Swaledale outdoors club use it.

Yremenlaf, thanks for linking to my thread. I've had a bit more of a look at the place, the first few lines remain nice, a bit more traffic has cleaned the VS up nicely (though now feels more HS). The main line I had in mind which is unclimbed is to hard for me, small holds on a slightly overhanging wall, maybe f6c, I'm going back when I'm stronger, though maybe dave and franco may have more joy on it? There are a few more lines that look a bit easier, but still bold as. Someone I know suggested that we put pegs in them as they could be taken out after and not upset people. Some of the other easier lines are worth cleaning, but think others are best left to the plants.

Downholme is the nicest crag I've been to in the area, although its owned by the MOD and technically you should get permission to climb there. Redmire quarry looks awesome, but here tarmac are a bit more on the case about removing people and I shouldn't post about climbing there on forums.

In reply to Chris Craggs: In reply to Chris Craggs:
Iy, but what about Ingleby and Round Crag. Did i not say if you included them i'd shut up?

nah, tint.

In reply to Franco Cookson:

Sorry, you may be right. I was using the Ordnance Survey maps - and what do they know!


Chris

In reply to Chris Craggs:

Well they put a footpath going through our front door at work.

In reply to Yrmenlaf:

I've been once. We spent 45 minutes failing to find the crag and then went to Applegarth instead.

In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC: good article boys.. but franco can you buy some new trousers? ron hills are a bit 80's.

In reply to Toreador:

Park just past the campsite and walk up the hill till you see rock. No real footpath, just beat your way up. If your walking for more then 10 to 15 mins you've missed it.

In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:

Nice article - missed it before. Particularly like the adverb 'difficultly'.

jcm

Nice one lads, you've both done a great job - not sure about enouraging people to go to roseberry though ;0

In reply to Toreador:

Never had any difficulty: but the layby has been blocked off since I last went. There was a clear path.

I remember "Only a Rose" and a corner crack called "Cleavage" being particularly fine

To sum up: worth the effort, if you like VS cracks

Y.

In reply to Mattyk:

Already done. I think that picture of Ian was the one time he wasn't wearing them, as he got me addicted to them. I'm clean now though and don't even wear my Helly often, just some shitty trousers and a ripped T-shirt. I think they're good for winter climbing though.

In reply to Franco Cookson: Ron Hills all the way. Unless its cold then i wear 2 pairs.

In reply to IanJackson: lol. opted for the helly today, lakes here we come.

In reply to luketheape:

It's an experience, is it not?

In reply to IanJackson:

I'd agree with many of the otherts in saying well done. If Beacon Scar is proving too difficult for you to get to, how about a feature on your local crag - Castleton Rigg Quarry?

In reply to Michael: Your second name wouldn't be Hunt would it?

In reply to DaveWarb:

The very same!

Have climbed quite a bit in your area. Really liked your article.

As Ian suggests, something in future on the limestone would be good too.

Are you and Franco coming down to the Peak in a couple of weeks?

In reply to Michael: Well, hopefully on Thursday i should be able to drive, so the Limestone (and Beacon Scar, Ian) becomes very accessible, which is good because i've only climbed a couple of Wet VD's at Peak Scar, and ive only walked near Whitestone Cliffe, and the VS's and HVS's look amazing there.
The summer hols are just around the corner after these exam things they keep going on about.. A levels or something(!) ....

Then the Peak is certainly going to be our main objective, along with the Lakes perhaps, infact Franco is there as i type this, as he hasn't got an exam on tuesday.

In reply to DaveWarb:

Surname* lol

In reply to Michael:

I have a half completed new edition to climbing on the North York Moors but after the recent events and Chris Craggs comments on here I don't know whether it will be viable to publish it now. How many would I be able to sell now that I would be competing against the recent Rockfax and the proposed free mini guides?

Would it be to an acceptable standard? What do climbers really want out of guidebooks these days?

Steve Crowe

In reply to Anonymous:

I won't be doing MiniGuides (free or otherwise) to the Moors anytime in the foreseeable, it was something I had wondered about - but I have more than enough on at the moment.
If sometime down the line the definitive guide is unavailable, they might work as a gap-filler.

Chris

In reply to Anonymous:
Anyne wanting to climb in the North York Moors will want to know about a lot more than the few crags covered in the Rockfax guide. So I hope you'll continue with the planned new edition, and I'm sure that a lot of us will be keen to help out in any way we can.
Much as I love the moors and their climbing, it's a bit of a backwater, not an area that currently attracts many 'outsiders' to travel there. Perhaps those who buy the Rockfax because of its coverage of Yorkshire grit or Northumberland will try the NYM crags, like what they find, and want to see what else there is? Which would lead to a few more sales of the definitive guide.
As for what constitutes an acceptable standard - other than the unusual choice of cover photo, and the questionable quality of the binding (most people's seem to fall to bits quite quickly), I've not heard many complaints. Maybe some topos of Peak Scar/Whitestone (easier said than done I know), add the crags that were omitted, but condense the coverage of some of the obscurities?

In reply to Anonymous:

Hi Steve,

I really like your guide and prefer it to the Rockfax guide for being more comprehensive, especially with regard to the NYM's,

What do climbers really want out of guidebooks these days?
On several occasions I have helped out people using a Rockfax guide who wanted to know about a buttress that wasn't in their guide but was in the definitive (BMC) version. My preference is to use the definitive guides, though I do have a load of Rockfax on the shelves!

Would it be to an acceptable standard?
I have no problem with your already excellent guide to N.E. England. If this were revised I'd be number 1 in the queue for it. However I don't know the publishing business well enough to understand the impact of Rockfax publishing guides to the same area.

Thanks for a great guide.

In reply to DaveWarb & Franco:

I'm heading to wainstones tomorrow with a mate if either of you two need someone to climb with and are free?

In reply to Steve Crowe
Hi Steve
I would really encourage you to publish the guide, I think there is a good demand for it, and it is an invaluable asset to the local climbers.

I am back up on the moors for a few months this summer, if you need any help reviewing, taking photos etc, I'd be happy put some time in.

Luke

In reply to Duncan_S: Sorry, i've got to revise for my Test on Tuesday, i will however, pass the message on to Franco. Cheers, Dave

In reply to Steve Crowe: I would too encourage you to publish the new guide and any help you *may* require, to do so, dont hesitate to ask. I certainly would buy a new guide, as mine lost its willingness to be dragged from crag to crag, when i dropped it at Danby Crag(!)

I was talking to Frank Fitzgerald today, and he said that people had been to Earthworks/Cambo Buttress recently. Now, they certainly won't have got there using the Rockfax guide!

Cheers, Dave.

In reply to Duncan_S: Wainstones...

1. Ling Buttress Routes HS & S (Nice)
2. Sphinx Traverse S (Fantastic!)
3. Christopher VS (Good)
4. East Sphinx Direct VS (Hard start)
5. Concave Wall HVS (OK gear, but a tad bold)
6. Various other routes such as 'Slab climb (S)', 'Wall & Ledge (D)' & the bouldering.
7. Summit the Needle, towards sunset?!

(should be reet, for a day?)

In reply to Anonymous:
I don't know whether it will be viable to publish it now. How many would I be able to sell now that I would be competing against the recent Rockfax and the proposed free mini guides?

I don't know how many you would have to sell for it to be viable but from the few people i've talked to you would have no problems shifting a few hundred at least i'd imagine? (estimation)

The PDFs i've seen look more than acceptable, alot more people I talk to seem to be interested in the quality esoterica around the moors, so Oak Crag ect. Whether it should be a truly definitive guide is another matter, Thorgill for instance.- I'm pretty sure climbing is impossible. lol

In reply to Michael: i'll be in the Peak from the 29th/30th to the 4th ish, if you fancy a climb around?

In reply to Franco Cookson:

Why? It's on our list for the summer, don't want a wasted journey!

In reply to Anonymous:

Even if free mini guides appeared (and Chris nows says they won't), how would the affect of these in terms of lost sales differ from your publishing full details of all the crags on the climbonline site?

In reply to Toreador: I think a new guide is a totally viable option, especially if Steve waits till next year when the honeymoon roxfax period wears of and every forgets about it

In reply to Toreador: Well i've only been once by my self, so I might have just been unlucky, but from my experience it's seeping tree filled chossy, just gennerally not nice climbing. Like I say though don't take my word for it, if you like Whitestone.

In reply to Franco Cookson:
You were probably doing hard stuff though, the punter grade routes might be better (though usually aren't)

In reply to Toreador: no,lol. I think the hardest route there is HVS and at the time I was looking at VSs. Try it though! -'experience'

In reply to Franco Cookson: How was the lakes?

Toreador: It's worth a look, at least its in a beautiful location just above Thorgill Village, and Rosedale itself is rather stunning.

In reply to DaveWarb:

that's the main reason for wanting to visit to be honest. If the climbing's crap we can just slob around eating sandwiches and admiring the view

In reply to Toreador: Well if it is poor, you may as well have a pop along to Camp Hill or Esklets, just to have a look (unless you already have) OR make a quick get away and make haste to the Limestone for the afternoon to save the day?

In reply to Duncan_S: i'm peddling to the stones now, even though it just down-poured- dries up quickly.

In reply to Franco Cookson:

typical - we're meant to be going to Raven's Scar tomorrow evening!

In reply to Franco Cookson: AWW BOLLOX is it Peak Scar tomorrow.... Bloody Geology exam, ah well.

In reply to DaveWarb:

Take it to email chaps please.

In reply to Duncan_S:
>the yorkshire git and limestone south of me

Not a nice way to speak about a nidderdale boulderer!

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

Don't think they have heard of Messenger!


Chris

In reply to Chris Craggs: sorry we're not all as 'hip' as you.

In reply to Chris Craggs:
What's she got to do with it?

In reply to Franco Cookson:

I have been called many things but 'hip' is a new one!


Chris

In reply to Toreador: I thought it was a newspaper?

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

I dunno, the content is about climbing in North Yorkshire, Franco's mention of a downpour, has alerted Mr Caldwell to possibly rethinking his plans to go to North Yorkshire's best North facer.

In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:
Nice article - Well done guys, you are clearly proud of your local rocks!

(And I didn't even see any Northern vernacular in the text - not even the legendary "iy"!)

In reply to DaveWarb:

Great list Dave, it was a cracking day, got most of them other then the bouldering and sphinx traverse. I've got a nice fat bruise on my leg from falling of concave wall

In reply to James Moyle: you should have seen the first draft!

In reply to Duncan_S: iy, good effot for going for it. Didn't think you were going to stop. lol Nice day's climbing.

In reply to Duncan_S: Really!, good effort. Shame you didn't get the Traverse done, that's a cracker, still first on your list next time you go!
As for the bouldering, thats just a time passer, if its a bit windy or you've climbed everything you want to climb and are waiting for the sun to set.

In reply to Franco Cookson:
Interesting article. You say "Magic in the Air - One of the best climbs in the Moors, if not the country. Although it's graded E6 6b I'm not quite sure how difficult it is, as I couldn't find anyone who had climbed it... "

It is a great route. You know I've done it (with the side runners), you only have to ask!

In reply to Jon Read: iy, sorry. I think I sent the article off before I found out you had climbed it. I wrote this article around january I think.

In reply to Franco Cookson: Ok, no worries.

In reply to Franco Cookson:
If anyone fancies a look at Raven's Scar, now would be a good time, it's in excellent condition at the moment.

In reply to Toreador: I bet, Peakscar was beautiful last night. Dry and the sun was on the rock!!

In reply to IanJackson:
A couple of our members were at Peak Scar last night, apoparently it was overrun by thousands of people from a different club

In reply to Toreador:

All those folks there and the crag isn't in Northern England - who would have believed it!


Chris

In reply to Chris Craggs: 2nd best crag on the moors thats why

In reply to Chris Craggs:
That's cos your guide has cherry picked all the most popular crags, which is why we were queueing for routes at Raven's Scar last night.

When I say queueing, I mean we got to choose from almost 100 routes with nobody else there at all, but we all wanted to do the same route so took it in turns