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Dave Birkett has again proven himself to be one of the leading lights in British traditional climbing. Last week he was rescuing sheep in Langdale, this week he's onsighting sandy, scary E8 arêtes.
My Piano slices up the huge, bold, square-cut arête, making Archangel at Stanage look like a boulder problem. It features a hard start and sandy, technical climbing in a very run-out position. According to Al Lee who filmed Birkett extensively for his film-profile 'Set in Stone', Birkett is in amazing shape;
"He's really fit at the moment - in really good shape. Even fitter than when I filmed him on all the Lake District routes. Really impressive."
Read More: http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/older.html?month=05&year=2008#n44432
My Piano slices up the huge, bold, square-cut arête, making Archangel at Stanage look like a boulder problem. It features a hard start and sandy, technical climbing in a very run-out position. According to Al Lee who filmed Birkett extensively for his film-profile 'Set in Stone', Birkett is in amazing shape;
"He's really fit at the moment - in really good shape. Even fitter than when I filmed him on all the Lake District routes. Really impressive."
Read More: http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/older.html?month=05&year=2008#n44432
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:
That'ss pretty awesome .
That'ss pretty awesome .
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC: Well done Dave! Top send. Looking forward to meeting you round Nessie, been hearing about your visits.
Ed
Ed
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:
Hoooooo-ly cow. Never mind making Archangel look like a boulder problem. It makes End of the Affair look like a boulder problem. That's some effort.
jcm
Hoooooo-ly cow. Never mind making Archangel look like a boulder problem. It makes End of the Affair look like a boulder problem. That's some effort.
jcm
In reply to boothy:
Is this the first repeat of your route, Ed?
So whats that that Birkett has bagged now? First ever mountain trad E8 AND first ever outcrop E8? Or has someone done E8 before on non-mountain crags (confirmed ascents of course. Not including rumours about The Zone)?
Is this the first repeat of your route, Ed?
So whats that that Birkett has bagged now? First ever mountain trad E8 AND first ever outcrop E8? Or has someone done E8 before on non-mountain crags (confirmed ascents of course. Not including rumours about The Zone)?
In reply to Will Hunt: Its not my route, It was done in i think '94 by local crag caretaker Nick Dixon. Leo Houlding made the second ascent. and then it has seen repeats from Martin Crocker(who i am told had a sling hanging from the first pegs birging it down to E6/7. Caff has also repeated and i think the person he did it with also led it. Unfortunately i cannot remeber who it was as i thought it was Patch Hammond but i don't think he has done it. Ben Heason also made an ascent last year. Sorry if i missed anyone out, there may be some locals who have climbed the route and not mentioned it to anybody.
The route has a punchy boulder problem crux, perhaps V5/6(i don't know how to grade so it could be completely out, but its a bit higher off the ground than you'd like with a nasty landing. Then ther is some respite to a good rest at the just a bit above half height brakes which takes cams and wires. These are all dubious, as its pretty sandy in there. with feet above the break is a nearly hands-off rest(one thumb) and then a smeary, easily fall off-able 6b move and then a pop for a good hollow hold, beofre a cheeky runout to the top.
A cracking route, about Fr7b/7b+. Awesome, and well done Dave. Good On-sight!
Ed
The route has a punchy boulder problem crux, perhaps V5/6(i don't know how to grade so it could be completely out, but its a bit higher off the ground than you'd like with a nasty landing. Then ther is some respite to a good rest at the just a bit above half height brakes which takes cams and wires. These are all dubious, as its pretty sandy in there. with feet above the break is a nearly hands-off rest(one thumb) and then a smeary, easily fall off-able 6b move and then a pop for a good hollow hold, beofre a cheeky runout to the top.
A cracking route, about Fr7b/7b+. Awesome, and well done Dave. Good On-sight!
Ed
In reply to boothy:
Am I still allowed my onsight after reading that and watching the DVD of you on it? If not then I demand even more detailed beta.
Am I still allowed my onsight after reading that and watching the DVD of you on it? If not then I demand even more detailed beta.
In reply to Will Hunt:
Take the 'e' off. Just a trad route, especially as it has been onsighted.
> (In reply to boothy)
> A trade route then!
> A trade route then!
Take the 'e' off. Just a trad route, especially as it has been onsighted.
In reply to boothy:
Some would disagree and say that style is important and that with better style you get more enjoyment.
> (In reply to Paz) Who cares about how much beta you have and syle of ascents? If people are looking into style so much, then they aren't enjoying they're climbing enough.
Some would disagree and say that style is important and that with better style you get more enjoyment.
In reply to boothy:
link to the video?
link to the video?
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: I just put that cause its my opinion, fair enough to those who like to climb in that way. The DVD comes with the Nesscliffe guidebook, there were only 500 DVD's made though so they may have all been sold by now. Cheers, Ed Booth
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:
it really doesn't surprise me about dave onsighting hard routes, he must be one of the very few people compared to years ago putting up big 'chop routes'.
Still credit where credit's due, fekin good going dave!!
it really doesn't surprise me about dave onsighting hard routes, he must be one of the very few people compared to years ago putting up big 'chop routes'.
Still credit where credit's due, fekin good going dave!!
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: We must remember though - it's about the experience and the enjoyment - not about getting the 'onsight tick'.
The onsight experience is what I climb for. Some times I've belayed my friends and they've fallen and I take over - it's the way it goes, not a true 'onsight' but I enjoy it still.
I don't abseil in to Sea cliffs blindfolded or any of that stuff either!
Jack
The onsight experience is what I climb for. Some times I've belayed my friends and they've fallen and I take over - it's the way it goes, not a true 'onsight' but I enjoy it still.
I don't abseil in to Sea cliffs blindfolded or any of that stuff either!
Jack
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC: That is kind of the point i was attempting to make and Jack has put in into better words. It seems that people nowadays will strive to get a fully clean on-sight and lose the reason why they are trying the route in the first place.
Its just about getting out and climbing and giving it everything you have in the situation.
Its just about getting out and climbing and giving it everything you have in the situation.
In reply to boothy:
I'm in agreement, onsight's good, but whatever style it is just good to be out there climbing and enjoying it.
Which reminds me!
Off.
Mick
I'm in agreement, onsight's good, but whatever style it is just good to be out there climbing and enjoying it.
Which reminds me!
Off.
Mick
In reply to boothy:
Me for one, I care. And yes, I know all that, but in this context of E8 onsights, we've been trudging for years through people's mate's contributions that were actually worthy flashes or ground ups, but `were still good effort and deserving of a mention' in search of proper E8 onsights. All well and good, but they don't help with the issue at hand. At the end of the day the only one's that stand to scrutiny are Birkett's two, and possibly one of Pritchard's on Red Wall if it's still standing.
Me for one, I care. And yes, I know all that, but in this context of E8 onsights, we've been trudging for years through people's mate's contributions that were actually worthy flashes or ground ups, but `were still good effort and deserving of a mention' in search of proper E8 onsights. All well and good, but they don't help with the issue at hand. At the end of the day the only one's that stand to scrutiny are Birkett's two, and possibly one of Pritchard's on Red Wall if it's still standing.
In reply to Paz: Well i wander if Dave has watched the video? Wolud that to you make his ascent tarnished. I certainly don't think so. On outcrop routes like this you can see probable sequences. Getting up there and doing them is the actual on-sight bit. Even if he had saw the video, its still on-sight!
In reply to boothy: *had seen
In reply to boothy:
Jeez ed, you make a good point above and then have to ruin it with "Even if he had saw the video, its still on-sight".. which as well as having bad grammar (too much French frying the brain?) is just plain wrong.
The 'best style possible' point above is the one I think is good - if you see a vid at your mates house or belay someone on something first you can still do it in pretty damn good style, and what matters is getting to the bottom and doing it in the best style possible at that time...
Anyway, big up to Birkett, he's a beast. Now Jack just needs to tell Caff to stop pusseying around on shit like Masters edge and go show these Belgians who's boss on Nightmayer!
Jeez ed, you make a good point above and then have to ruin it with "Even if he had saw the video, its still on-sight".. which as well as having bad grammar (too much French frying the brain?) is just plain wrong.
The 'best style possible' point above is the one I think is good - if you see a vid at your mates house or belay someone on something first you can still do it in pretty damn good style, and what matters is getting to the bottom and doing it in the best style possible at that time...
Anyway, big up to Birkett, he's a beast. Now Jack just needs to tell Caff to stop pusseying around on shit like Masters edge and go show these Belgians who's boss on Nightmayer!
In reply to boothy:
I doubt it. I'll ask him.
No, but it wouldn't be onsight.
Yip .. that's what onsight means, on first sight, viewing the route whilst there is fine and trying to work out doing them is par for the course; but watching a video of someone doing the route is similar to watching someone doing the route at the crag and you couldn't claim an onsight. It's a flash. By watching someone you get beta on how to do the moves, where the rests are, that it is possible, and more, psychologically, if the person you are watching doesn't climb as hard as you.
Nope.
> (In reply to Paz) Well i wander if Dave has watched the video?
I doubt it. I'll ask him.
> Wolud that to you make his ascent tarnished.
No, but it wouldn't be onsight.
> On outcrop routes like this you can see probable sequences.
Yip .. that's what onsight means, on first sight, viewing the route whilst there is fine and trying to work out doing them is par for the course; but watching a video of someone doing the route is similar to watching someone doing the route at the crag and you couldn't claim an onsight. It's a flash. By watching someone you get beta on how to do the moves, where the rests are, that it is possible, and more, psychologically, if the person you are watching doesn't climb as hard as you.
> Even if he had saw the video, its still on-sight!
Nope.
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:
An E8 onsight has got to be some sort of record?
An E8 onsight has got to be some sort of record?
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:
Inspirational stuff
Inspirational stuff
In reply to boothy:
If he had watched it, it'd mean it was a damn good flash. I expect he won't have as last time on Dove Crag someone thought he might have done an E7 first that shares a common start with the E8, but t turned out he hadn't when he asked him. From what little I know of him I don't think he'd have let E8 onsight hype build up if he'd seen it on video.
When i'm strict with myself about my onsighting, no it doens't make my flashes and ground ups etc, even my headpoint top roped to death things, any less impressive no, that's a poor way of putting it. which too many people insist on. It just makes it all the more satisfying for me when I know I have properly onsighted a route.
If he had watched it, it'd mean it was a damn good flash. I expect he won't have as last time on Dove Crag someone thought he might have done an E7 first that shares a common start with the E8, but t turned out he hadn't when he asked him. From what little I know of him I don't think he'd have let E8 onsight hype build up if he'd seen it on video.
When i'm strict with myself about my onsighting, no it doens't make my flashes and ground ups etc, even my headpoint top roped to death things, any less impressive no, that's a poor way of putting it. which too many people insist on. It just makes it all the more satisfying for me when I know I have properly onsighted a route.
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:
I think the interesting thing about Dave's ascent was that he's just looks so strong at the minute. It was amazing... as Al Lee said, really impressive climbing, and some of the best I've had the pleasure of witnessing.
I think the interesting thing about Dave's ascent was that he's just looks so strong at the minute. It was amazing... as Al Lee said, really impressive climbing, and some of the best I've had the pleasure of witnessing.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Nope.
Mick,
Had Dave seen the video and you knew had. Would you still have reported his ascent, as a flash or whatever? Or just ignored it as another E8 headpoint?
Tom
> Even if he had saw the video, its still on-sight!
Nope.
Mick,
Had Dave seen the video and you knew had. Would you still have reported his ascent, as a flash or whatever? Or just ignored it as another E8 headpoint?
Tom
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC: Regardless of style, inspirational stuff dave!
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:
Sorry but that's poor - what arete to start with? & Archangel isn't a 'great arete' in the grand scheme anyway!
Even if Dave's arete is the best since the dogs whatsits - why compare with a Grit test peice thats just happy to be at its grade & a tester for the E3 Climber?
The Angel as a boulder problem is laughable anyhoo - you seen the landing!!
;0)
>
> My Piano slices up the huge, bold, square-cut arête, making Archangel at Stanage look like a boulder problem.
> My Piano slices up the huge, bold, square-cut arête, making Archangel at Stanage look like a boulder problem.
Sorry but that's poor - what arete to start with? & Archangel isn't a 'great arete' in the grand scheme anyway!
Even if Dave's arete is the best since the dogs whatsits - why compare with a Grit test peice thats just happy to be at its grade & a tester for the E3 Climber?
The Angel as a boulder problem is laughable anyhoo - you seen the landing!!
;0)
In reply to Will Hunt:
> (In reply to boothy)
> whats that that Birkett has bagged now? First ever mountain trad E8 AND first ever outcrop E8?
Wasn't Requiem at Dumby the 1st outcrop E8? > whats that that Birkett has bagged now? First ever mountain trad E8 AND first ever outcrop E8?
In reply to aln:
Yes but I think the two Dave B climbed are supposed to be the fist E8 onsights of mountain/outcrop routes.
Yes but I think the two Dave B climbed are supposed to be the fist E8 onsights of mountain/outcrop routes.
In reply to aln:
They're refrringto the fact that grades are supposedly theoretcial unitl they've been onsighted, even though the default assumption for an E8 still is that it's been head pointed.
Requiem was the country's first 8a+ though.
They're refrringto the fact that grades are supposedly theoretcial unitl they've been onsighted, even though the default assumption for an E8 still is that it's been head pointed.
Requiem was the country's first 8a+ though.
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC: Has dave got any comments about the route? It would be really cool to hear what he thinks about it.
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC: A couple more shots of Dave here -https://www.posingproductions.com/gallery.php?form_action=detail&id=112
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