UKC

Hi All,

Ive been diagnosed with Lyme Disease, which I got from a tick bite on the Isle of Rum, west coast of Scotland. I've read JayH's excellent UKC article on this nasty disease- perhaps this should be re-posted to remind people as it's Lyme transmission season right now?

Anyway, I was just wondering if anyone else had been infected on Rum? It's rammed with deer, some of which are very tame, and I sat amongst the deer watching them, got one tick bite and got infected. Been bitten by loads of ticks before and never been ill, so is Rum a bit of a Lyme hotspot?

Also, I was thinking that my treatment might be a bit conservative since they're giving me antibiotics for only 21 days, despite neurological symptoms, JayH article suggests more aggressive treatment. Any experiences anyone?

In reply to Nicola S:

I hate ticks
Hope you're well soon!

In reply to Nicola S: Hi Nic, not good news! Hope you get better soon.

Sorry no further knowledge.

In reply to Nicola S:

Did Lesley tell you that she spoke to her colleague who is an Immunology & Infection consultant & he said the treatment you were given was spot on for Lymes. From what she said he has had experience of treating it.

Sorry I couldn't drop by yesterday, had a manic day, will catch up soon.

M

In reply to Nicola S:

Hello, I hope you respond well to the antibiotics

My Dad got Lymes on Rum about 4 years ago - the first time he was aware of getting a tick, and it got him good...

He got the bullseye and achy joint symtpoms, and the doctor put him on several weeks of strong antibiotics while his bloods were tested - the antibiotics were hard work in themselves. A long, long time later, after the hospital lost them, his bloods were eventually confirmed as Lymes.

He's been treated with antibiotics once more since then after a possible contraction on Arran.

In reply to Chris F: HI Chris,(and Richard)

Thanks,

yeah, it's a bummer, there goes my bumper summer of climbing... can't even walk round Tescos without crumbling into a heap!

Nic

In reply to johnSD: Hi John,

That's interesting that your dad got it on Rum too. Do you happen to know what strength antibiotics he was on and for how long? I'm on 200 mg doxycycline for 21 days.

Unlucky chap to get it twice....

In reply to Nicola S:
That's a bit grim.
I've literally had hundreds of ticks over the years, and never had Lyme Disease (unless it's possible to have it really mildly and not know?)
I'm hearing more and more about it, and wonder whether it's becoming more common. I think I might start using DEET a bit more often.
Best wishes for your recovery.

In reply to Nicola S:

I'm afraid not, and I doubt he'd remember. It was about 3 weeks though, and pretty strong - they wiped him out as much as the Lymes did. Better to get it nipped in the bud though, I suppose

In reply to Iain Forrest: yes, it is getting more common.. probably climate change not helping..

It's a funny one to diagnose as the early symptoms can be just like the flu and often people don't realise they've been bitten and don't get the typical bulls eye rash. A lot of people don't get diagnosed for ages, by which time it's much more difficult to cure.

I'm going to obsessively use deet now and will impregnate my climbing and walking trousers with that insecticide used on bed nets. They're cunning little critters and seem to get to the wierdest places. I was wearing about 5 layers of clothing at the time, long trousers, leggings, long sleeves and one still got me.

In reply to Nicola S: Does DEET actually deter them?

In reply to Nicola S: sorry to hear that mate. I'm now becoming uber paranoid about the wee buggies. I'll not be happy when I find one on me.

In reply to Alasdair Fulton:
Yes, it does.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deet

Slightly nasty stuff that I don't think is worth using against midges, but which probably is worth using against disease-transmitting insects.

In reply to Alasdair Fulton: I don't think it actually repels ticks that well. DEET seems to work better on mosquitoes and midges than ticks. That's why I'm going to use deltamethrin on my clothing as well. The CDC to recommend the use of DEET as a tick repellent, but I think they're pretty hard to repel since they crawl over clothing and skin until they get to somewhere nice and cosy- I know people who have been bitten on the waist, groin, scrotum, nipple and belly button! Totally covering yourself in deet is not really practical and it may be more of an anti-feedant rather than repellent per se for ticks.

In reply to Nicola S:
>

Tried to highlight this a couple of days ago....

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=305546&v=1#x4515207

Bummer about you getting lymes, hope you get over it soon

In reply to martin riddell:

This permethrin stuff sounds effective but nasty...

http://www.wildernetwork.org/deet_vs_permethrin.html

In reply to martin riddell:

Hi, thanks for the link to previous thread. Sounds like they're out in force the wee buggers. A friend's dog got over 300 on her recently- ergh!

In reply to Humphrey Jungle: yeah, permethrin is good. Deltamethrim is the synthetic version and is more persistant on clothing and will withstand quite a few washes.

In reply to Nicola S:

That was an American link - can you buy Deltamethrim off the shelf here?

In reply to Nicola S:

Either you are very unlucky or I'm very lucky OR I've got Lyme disease and don't know it...!

I must of had hundreds of tick bites over the years when climbing on the Highland crags.

I've never really had then directly off wild deer though possibly off their trails through the heather and bracken.

We get young red and roe deer coming into the garden in the early hours and I was happily hand feeding some young reindeer reindeer moss and lichen on the Braeriach plateau the other day and didn't get bitten.

See http://www.talisman-activities.co.uk/blog/uploaded_images/young_reindeer_to...

The ticks were more of a problem last year as it was such a short and mild winter.

What were the actual symptoms?

In reply to Nicola S: Some of the islands are lyme hot spots, isn't Jura meant to be. I think there's historical reports of malaise and cripples, which they now believe to be lymes.

In reply to Nicola S:

Like some of the others on this thread I've had many tick bites over the years.
I've never been to Rum though so it's a bit shocking to read that you were infected by one tick bite.

Here's hoping your recovery is swift and complete.

Slugain

In reply to Slugain Howff:

Sorry to hear about the OP

Do some people just not get attacked by ticks? I have been walking and climbing the highlands for 15 years and have never once been bitten. I was not really aware of ticks until the other week when a friend pointed them out all over him (none on me). After this thread and the other article I am wondering whether to ever leave the house again.

In reply to MG:

I was wondering about that, I've only ever found one on me & it fell off when I scratched it, not realising what it was till I saw it's legs waving at me. This was 4 days after I must have picked it up & it was still tiny, as though it didn't like my blood. Since midges aren't fond of me either I wonder if there is a correlation? Nic??

In reply to Nicola S:


Hey Nic - really sorry to hear what's happened. Lots of positive vibes for a speedy recovery from me and Amanda. In the meantime, I can share your pain about ruined plans for the summer - I'm finally off crutches, but it'll be a long time before I'm ready to lead a route again...

In reply to Mike C:
My wife hardly ever gets ticks, even when I get loads. I think she's had 3 or 4 ever.
Midges love her, though.

In reply to Nicola S:

On the trip my Dad got Lymes disease on, I'd spent the ferry journey home picking a dozen or so off my legs, and then the next morning found one on my actual willy...

Scary stuff when I found out he got infected from one of it's mates!

In reply to Nicola S:

Sorry to hear that Nic, from Jays account its not something youd want to get, hope you make a speedy recovery!

Surprised you got it in the UK TBH, knew you could get it abroad but through it was all but unheard of here. A repost of the article may well be a fantastic idea! The more who know how to avoid it, recognise it and treat it the better, especially if you can pick it up so close to home!

In reply to Nicola S:

That's very unlucky, I hope your treatment goes well.

I took over 30 off me after day 1 of the LAMM on Saturday, and that was in an area know to have Lymes. Strangely enough I didn't get a single one on the Sunday, apart from wearing Ron Hills on Sunday the only other difference was I can think of was I was pretty liberal with the DEET on Saturday night to stave of the midges.

In reply to Mike C:
To add to your speculations, i have never found a tic on me.

In reply to IainRUK:

Interesting about Jura & disease.

The sea around Jura is meant to have one of the highest concentrations of Weils Disease (contained in rat's urine).
Also there is a version of Legionella bacteria called Loch Goil.

In reply to catt:

Is it? You've got me worried now!
<goes off to check for red rings>

In reply to Toreador:

I think the risk of transmission is low unless the tick has a couple of days to suck away.

If you get them off quickly and cleanly then you shouldn't need to worry too much, hopefully...

In reply to Nicola S: I know a guy being treated too, he got bitten at Coniston recently.

In reply to all:

thanks for all your posts. Don't mean to cause general panic about tick bites! Like I said, I've had loads and never been ill. Compared to the amount of ticks and bites the infection rate of Lyme disease is pretty low. Having said that, I now know of plenty of people who have had it, including one of my field assistants (I used to work on midges on the west coast of Scotland). I think it's really really under-reported. people who go frequently to tick-ridden places that have deer and sheep should be aware of the symptoms, as it can be serious if untreated and GP's are fairly unaware of it. 12 days after the bite, I had flu-like illness, headache, stiff neck, sore knees, shooting pains in my muscles, wanted to stay in the dark, pain behind my eyes, night sweats and mildly elevated temperature, and then this plus muscle weakness in my legs. I got over that in a few days and now just have very wobbly weak unstable legs and fatigue. I had no bullseye rash, and this apparently is quite common not to have this.

I think it is very likely that, like midges and mossies, some people are way more attractive to tick bites than others. Lots of people used to tell me that they do or don't get bitten by ticks when I worked on repellents.

interesting about historical malaise/illness on the islands and leptospirosis on Jura.

Thanks for the comiserations stuart- hope your knee gets better soon, and if it doesn't, hope you cope with watching everyone else climb all summer!

re permethrin/deltamethrin. actually, i just assumed that the bed net treatments available in the UK would be deltamethrin. I can only find permethrin- lifesystems one. This is not supposed to be for clothing, just for bed nets really but permethrin has pretty low mammalian toxicity and I'll look into it more, but will probably put this on my walking trousers anyway. I'm not saying I'm recommending it though!!!!

I've got a tom-0 tweezer remover thingy which gets them out really well, you can get them from the vets. I didn't have the tick in for more than 24 hrs and got it out straight away cleanly when i found it. I was told by a Lyme disease patient once to save the tick and put it in alcohol, but I didn't do this. This is so they can PCR the tick and see what kind of Lyme bug it is, as the blood test are pretty unreliable. I was also told by the same patient never to use any kind of steroid if you suspect you have lyme disease as this can cause eye damage. Not sure about how true this is.

thanks for the kind words everyone- look out for them little blighters!

In reply to Nicola S:

Sorry to hear about you suffering from Lymes Disease. A friend of mine based in Western Highlands is involved in the promotion of agricultural skills and also horse care.
She says the mechanism for contracting Lymes disease is when the tick is removed it expels something airborne which transmits the disease.
In short: removing a live tick is a no-no.

I believe her colleague has been going round Highland Shows promoting awareness on Lymes Disease. Sorry cannot be of much more help @ this stage.

In reply to Nicola S: One of the earlier deer researchers on Rum got Lymes disease back when it was poorly known and suffered very badly, she almost certaintly caught it while on the island.

More optimistically, a friend of mine got the symptoms after a day in the forest at Fontainebleau but after a short course of strong antibiotics was OK - I was climbing with him in the Pyrenees a couple of weeks later. He was treated by a French GP so maybe not the same treatment as offered in the UK

In reply to Nicola S:

Get better soon Nic! The old midge and Ticks like my blood too so I will be very careful. You have documented well what we need to look out for. Many thanks for that!

If you fancy some fresh air next week and are still off work....come keep me company at Portlethen, I finish my job on Tuesday lunchtime and have the rest of the week off.

In reply to Nicola S:

you weren't looking for newts were you?

In reply to Nicola S:

Rum never seemed a very welcoming place - we went a few years back and the only place to officially camp was in a bog right down by the sea. At the time i remember thinking it was probably the last place you'd want to pitch a tent. The midge was fierce and at that time (10 yrs ago ?)there were notices about Lymes disease around the place. Good hills tho

In reply to Nicola S: Sorry to hear about that Nicola. Hope you make a speedy recovery!

In reply to Nicola S: sorry to hear about your illness Nicola, I hope you recover swiftly..
Dont we all think its time something was done about the ticks? What can be done? they arent going to go away and probably only going to get worse.Isnt there call for a vaccine or something, or do we have to play russian roulette with ourselves, pets and kids everytime we want to enjoy the outdoors?Ive been bitten and removed a few ticks, then waitied nervously for any symptoms for the next month or two, its not fair, we only wanna enjoy the crags and the hills.
Id take a million midges over one tick anyday.Nasty little critters.

In reply to debb81:

Well I found a tick in my little boys ear today. It was in that nook and cranny bit at the top. Didnt fancy removing it myself so took him to the GP. GPs reply was 'He's got a what in his ear?' Seriously, he looked like he'd never seen one in his life before and knew nothing about them. He refused to do anything and sent us to A&E.

Interestingly, the triage nurse said he hadnt seen any tick cases in the last 3 years, but already this year he'd seen several.

In reply to ranger*goy:

He sent you to A&E to remove a tick???? WTF.

In reply to Nicola S: Hi Nic,

Sorry to hear about your illness. Here's hoping for a speedy recovery!

In reply to Removed User:

I know!!!!

It was in a really awkward place and it had been there at least a day. It was quite a tubby one and well stuck in. I just wasnt confident of doing it myself. I know where not to go in future! I'm almost certain he'd never even seen one before.

In reply to Nicola S:
Maybe climbers should be using animal preventatives(not that I can condone that)so maybe I should check what is in Advantix!

In reply to Nicola S: im Paranoid now! eeeek! hope you get well soon. i get bitten to death by midges, but not mosq's and never ever been bitten by a tick! but i havent climbed in the highlands either... (climbed pretty much everywhere else in the world...) i wonder if they do prefer a certain blood type... i read somewhere that mosq's prefer certain blood types...

In reply to Nicola S:

I'd add that, given the acute toxicity to fish, using permethrin on the cuffs of your shirt would probably amount to a death-sentence for every trout you catch and release, just from carry-over on your hands. Which means I can't use this for my main "undergrowth burrowing" activity. Still, I've only had the one tick so far this year and that tore off sharpish.

Sorry to hear you're crocked Nicola. Hope the 3 week course pays off and you're fine in 4.