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Cider Nut finds herself at a VS plateau and, with the help of some mental training, boosts her grade up to E1. How? Read on...
"It's important to embrace the challenge of climbing instead of avoiding it...
...So here I was armed with a little bible on how to fix my head. However, it's one thing thinking 'that makes so much sense' and another being able to turn that into action..."
Read More: http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=1082
"It's important to embrace the challenge of climbing instead of avoiding it...
...So here I was armed with a little bible on how to fix my head. However, it's one thing thinking 'that makes so much sense' and another being able to turn that into action..."
Read More: http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=1082
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:
Good article, enjoyed that. Thanks for sharing. Next installment: To infinity and beyond - E1 to E3 by Cider Nut
Good article, enjoyed that. Thanks for sharing. Next installment: To infinity and beyond - E1 to E3 by Cider Nut
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:
In public writing avoid sentences such as: "I hope it's inspirational on some level rather than sounding self indulgent or hippyish"
You are just making yourself a hostage to fortune!
In public writing avoid sentences such as: "I hope it's inspirational on some level rather than sounding self indulgent or hippyish"
You are just making yourself a hostage to fortune!
In reply to TobyA:
Not sure what you mean by a hostage to fortune. I considered taking that paragraph out, but left it in as I wanted to add something about my motivations for submitting it.
Not sure what you mean by a hostage to fortune. I considered taking that paragraph out, but left it in as I wanted to add something about my motivations for submitting it.
In reply to cider nut: I just mean that you are telling the moaners how to moan, don't give them that advantage. Some people might find it hippyish and self-indulgent, but don't suggest to the neutral that it could be. This might tip them away from you and then you lose the point you are trying to make, because they're just thinking "bloody hippy".
In reply to TobyA: I don't agree at all Toby - that's good (and common) advice for academic writing but in this piece it struck a really good note for me because it is all about self-awareness and the comment recognises the relationship with the reader.
Nice one Sarah, really good article - you have a talent for writing. I remember commenting on your stamina thread and argued that a sense of tiredness was a physical response to a hard lead. But recently I've had an epiphany of my own that I can do a hard route and then do more, and more, until I am genuinely physically/mentally tired. That fits with your/Arno's concept of being too content to stay in a comfort zone - I was making excuses, mostly around not wanting to fail on routes. Partly as a result of that change of mindset I have got a lot fitter recently and more focused and moved off a plateau of my own.
Pedantic point: a 'positive' vicious circle is a virtuous circle!
Nice one Sarah, really good article - you have a talent for writing. I remember commenting on your stamina thread and argued that a sense of tiredness was a physical response to a hard lead. But recently I've had an epiphany of my own that I can do a hard route and then do more, and more, until I am genuinely physically/mentally tired. That fits with your/Arno's concept of being too content to stay in a comfort zone - I was making excuses, mostly around not wanting to fail on routes. Partly as a result of that change of mindset I have got a lot fitter recently and more focused and moved off a plateau of my own.
Pedantic point: a 'positive' vicious circle is a virtuous circle!
In reply to Stig:
Thanks! And cool to read about your similar experience.
I like the last like too, didn't know that but it sounds much better!
Thanks! And cool to read about your similar experience.
I like the last like too, didn't know that but it sounds much better!
In reply to Stig:
Pedantic point: a 'positive' vicious circle is a virtuous circle!
or virtuous upward spiral, even - I am sure CN was deconstructing this business cliche for impact and if not then I like it even more
Pedantic point: a 'positive' vicious circle is a virtuous circle!
or virtuous upward spiral, even - I am sure CN was deconstructing this business cliche for impact and if not then I like it even more
In reply to cider nut:
I enjoyed this very much - good work. A lot of it made sense to me and reflects quite a bit of what I'm going through at the moment trying to push my grade - particularly the bit about only being excited once I'd finished the climb or the day after, rather than while I'm climbing.
Anyway, nice one.
Shauna
I enjoyed this very much - good work. A lot of it made sense to me and reflects quite a bit of what I'm going through at the moment trying to push my grade - particularly the bit about only being excited once I'd finished the climb or the day after, rather than while I'm climbing.
Anyway, nice one.
Shauna
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:
Good article, Sarah! I can relate to a lot of it albeit with different grades.
Good article, Sarah! I can relate to a lot of it albeit with different grades.
In reply to Stig:
Fair enough, I just think if you are making an argument the easiest way to convince others is to sound convinced yourself. I don't want to go off point anyway, because it's a thought provoking article.
> (In reply to TobyA) I don't agree at all Toby - that's good (and common) advice for academic writing but in this piece it struck a really good note for me because it is all about self-awareness and the comment recognises the relationship with the reader.
Fair enough, I just think if you are making an argument the easiest way to convince others is to sound convinced yourself. I don't want to go off point anyway, because it's a thought provoking article.
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC: i liked it - well communicated i thought
In reply to cider nut:
Good article Sarah, and well done on leading an E1. You are entirely right that a lot of what grade you climb at is mental approach as much as physical ability.
Good article Sarah, and well done on leading an E1. You are entirely right that a lot of what grade you climb at is mental approach as much as physical ability.
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:
"It's important to embrace the challenge of climbing instead of avoiding it."
Well that's me told then
I like doing hard moves. But if that hard move is some distance off the floor or above gear, then I get flustered. Once flustered I prevaricate and try the move 3 or 4 different ways, backing off each time and build it up into a big thing. If it was at ground level, then I wouldn't think twice about it.
It's interesting to see some one elses view of making progress as it differs so much from mine. I have recently moved up a couple of grades, so the thing now is not to fall back into my comfort zone.
"It's important to embrace the challenge of climbing instead of avoiding it."
Well that's me told then
I like doing hard moves. But if that hard move is some distance off the floor or above gear, then I get flustered. Once flustered I prevaricate and try the move 3 or 4 different ways, backing off each time and build it up into a big thing. If it was at ground level, then I wouldn't think twice about it.
It's interesting to see some one elses view of making progress as it differs so much from mine. I have recently moved up a couple of grades, so the thing now is not to fall back into my comfort zone.
In reply to cider nut:
Thanks for that ... Perfectly put. One of the better articles I've read on ukclimbing - lets have more of this type of insight and introspection from other "lower level" climbers - they make a damn sight more sense to me than the musings of a E11 Gods.
Thanks for that ... Perfectly put. One of the better articles I've read on ukclimbing - lets have more of this type of insight and introspection from other "lower level" climbers - they make a damn sight more sense to me than the musings of a E11 Gods.
In reply to cider nut: good article! interesting and well-expressed. It's hard to write at length about motivations and difficulties, whilst still remaining interesting. The bullet points were the most interesting:
*"It's important to embrace the challenge of climbing instead of avoiding it. "
This is very true, and i'm only just descovering how exciting it can be.
* "You should constantly work to expand your comfort zone rather than working within it."
This is also a good point, but I don't think it's essential to be a 'well-rounded' climber- good to specialise me thinks.
*"Your ego will try to keep you in a emotionally safe place using lies (an ego is more than just cockiness and arrogance, it's any self indulgent feelings, even negative ones such as 'I'm not good enough to do this')."
I think it's just a fear of failiure- hense why you never see climbers climb at the edge of their grade, the main reason I don't try hard routes at stanage ect. is cause fialiure would be deeply humiliating.
once again, good article!
*"It's important to embrace the challenge of climbing instead of avoiding it. "
This is very true, and i'm only just descovering how exciting it can be.
* "You should constantly work to expand your comfort zone rather than working within it."
This is also a good point, but I don't think it's essential to be a 'well-rounded' climber- good to specialise me thinks.
*"Your ego will try to keep you in a emotionally safe place using lies (an ego is more than just cockiness and arrogance, it's any self indulgent feelings, even negative ones such as 'I'm not good enough to do this')."
I think it's just a fear of failiure- hense why you never see climbers climb at the edge of their grade, the main reason I don't try hard routes at stanage ect. is cause fialiure would be deeply humiliating.
once again, good article!
In reply to Solcambs:
But this is what I loved about CN's article, it's the same theories and principles that the E11 gods use and they'll work for anyone who really wants to make a difference to their climbing.
> One of the better articles I've read on ukclimbing - lets have more of this type of insight and introspection from other "lower level" climbers - they make a damn sight more sense to me than the musings of a E11 Gods.
But this is what I loved about CN's article, it's the same theories and principles that the E11 gods use and they'll work for anyone who really wants to make a difference to their climbing.
In reply to climbingpixie:
I agree. So tiring hearing this chippy whining about how the experiences of 'E11 gods' are removed from the rest of us.
jcm
I agree. So tiring hearing this chippy whining about how the experiences of 'E11 gods' are removed from the rest of us.
jcm
TobyA - I take your point.
Franco - the bullet points are summaries from Arno's book, all I did was find a way to understand and use them.
Others - thanks for the nice comments!
Franco - the bullet points are summaries from Arno's book, all I did was find a way to understand and use them.
Others - thanks for the nice comments!
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
Bwahahaa! "E11 Gods" are removed from the most of us ... and tiredness is in your mind - naught to do with my post!
BTW ... just so it's spelled out, as comprehension seems to be a failing of yours - the original article is refreshing because it's come from someone who has shown an insight into climbing without years or experience working routes most of us can only dream about - It's that fact that made the article enjoyable for me - I never said anything about it not be relevant across all levels of climbing, something that you've inferred, and used to imply that I'm whining about - It could of course be relevant across all grades, but I couldn't possibly comment on that as I've never climbed at such lofty heights!
> I agree. So tiring hearing this chippy whining about how the experiences of 'E11 gods' are removed from the rest of us.
Bwahahaa! "E11 Gods" are removed from the most of us ... and tiredness is in your mind - naught to do with my post!
BTW ... just so it's spelled out, as comprehension seems to be a failing of yours - the original article is refreshing because it's come from someone who has shown an insight into climbing without years or experience working routes most of us can only dream about - It's that fact that made the article enjoyable for me - I never said anything about it not be relevant across all levels of climbing, something that you've inferred, and used to imply that I'm whining about - It could of course be relevant across all grades, but I couldn't possibly comment on that as I've never climbed at such lofty heights!
In reply to Jack and CN: Another good article.
The 'comfort zone' thing is very well put and echoes much of what I've been trying to do for the last year or two. Unfortunately, it's still hard work to keep forcing yourself to take the challenging path rather than just the one of least resistance.
However, as regards to the article being applicable to all grades, perhaps the only point missing is that finding routes near your limit hard must not stop you from pushing on to still harder routes.
That is probably that main difference from moving from E1-E3 or E3-E5 compared to VS-E1. I notice that CN built up to E1 on the basis of finding 5? HVSs OK. Unfortunately if you deliberately apply the philosophy of waiting until the current grade feels easy in the higher grades you will end up just limiting yourself.
If you are doing what the article advocates, failure is GOOD - it shows that you ARE out of your comfort zone.
If you approach every route with 100% effort you can view every 'failure' or 'struggle' as a success that confirms that you are on the right path and it won't hold you back from getting on a harder route that you will succeed on.
The 'comfort zone' thing is very well put and echoes much of what I've been trying to do for the last year or two. Unfortunately, it's still hard work to keep forcing yourself to take the challenging path rather than just the one of least resistance.
However, as regards to the article being applicable to all grades, perhaps the only point missing is that finding routes near your limit hard must not stop you from pushing on to still harder routes.
That is probably that main difference from moving from E1-E3 or E3-E5 compared to VS-E1. I notice that CN built up to E1 on the basis of finding 5? HVSs OK. Unfortunately if you deliberately apply the philosophy of waiting until the current grade feels easy in the higher grades you will end up just limiting yourself.
If you are doing what the article advocates, failure is GOOD - it shows that you ARE out of your comfort zone.
If you approach every route with 100% effort you can view every 'failure' or 'struggle' as a success that confirms that you are on the right path and it won't hold you back from getting on a harder route that you will succeed on.
In reply to Mark Stevenson:
Good post, especially the last sentence, which I wish I'd put in my article!
Well sort of, sort of not. (It was 5 in one week by the way, had done a handful before). The basis wasn't the fact that I'd found some okay, but the fact that I'd done something without too much trouble that before had seemed almost impossible or at the best really hard, so I knew I was ready for more. It was like, suddenly there was no limit and I could just go for whatever I felt like, rather than even things within my limit being scary. It wasn't so much 'yay, I can have a go at an E1', but I could be much more objective and say 'there's nothing stopping me now, I know I can climb technically hard enough, and I feel ready, so why not!"
Your comments about trying harder stuff still are useful, but I had to break through the barrier first (and on top of that pyramidal improvements are important to avoid injuries and too many knock backs etc). As I say, I don't have all the answers, it's just now I'm more ready to take on board other training, now my old weakest link has been fixed.
Good post, especially the last sentence, which I wish I'd put in my article!
> I notice that CN built up to E1 on the basis of finding 5? HVSs OK
Well sort of, sort of not. (It was 5 in one week by the way, had done a handful before). The basis wasn't the fact that I'd found some okay, but the fact that I'd done something without too much trouble that before had seemed almost impossible or at the best really hard, so I knew I was ready for more. It was like, suddenly there was no limit and I could just go for whatever I felt like, rather than even things within my limit being scary. It wasn't so much 'yay, I can have a go at an E1', but I could be much more objective and say 'there's nothing stopping me now, I know I can climb technically hard enough, and I feel ready, so why not!"
Your comments about trying harder stuff still are useful, but I had to break through the barrier first (and on top of that pyramidal improvements are important to avoid injuries and too many knock backs etc). As I say, I don't have all the answers, it's just now I'm more ready to take on board other training, now my old weakest link has been fixed.
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:
Damn fine article CN. Damn, you're writing them and being mentioned 'in dispatches' by others!
I think I need to show this to a couple of people in the club I'm in who are showing a lot of promise physically, but are in real danger of hitting a plateau unless they extend the comfort zone (though work on foot and gear placements are rather more important at the moment!)
Ta,
PP.
Damn fine article CN. Damn, you're writing them and being mentioned 'in dispatches' by others!
I think I need to show this to a couple of people in the club I'm in who are showing a lot of promise physically, but are in real danger of hitting a plateau unless they extend the comfort zone (though work on foot and gear placements are rather more important at the moment!)
Ta,
PP.
In reply to cider nut: i've sort of written a little bit of an article about progressing at harder grades, not just about the mental aspect though, but i'll wait a while, until you can give me your feedback on how you got to onsight your first E5!
In reply to Franco Cookson:
lol Email it to me, wouldn't mind reading it Although it seems to me you haven't had to do that much to improve, you've just naturally got to the level you are? That's just speculation though.
lol Email it to me, wouldn't mind reading it Although it seems to me you haven't had to do that much to improve, you've just naturally got to the level you are? That's just speculation though.
In reply to cider nut: the article clearly disproves that, but that's off subject anyway.
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:
Someone's just pointed something out to me, and I just thought I'd add a little disclaimer here to go with the article.
Arno's book isnt all about overcoming your ego and going for it, there's a large section on objective risk assessment (amongst other things). My article only references one small part of the book that was most relevant for what I was writing about. Hope nobody goes out and starts throwing caution to the wind thinking that's what I was saying!
Someone's just pointed something out to me, and I just thought I'd add a little disclaimer here to go with the article.
Arno's book isnt all about overcoming your ego and going for it, there's a large section on objective risk assessment (amongst other things). My article only references one small part of the book that was most relevant for what I was writing about. Hope nobody goes out and starts throwing caution to the wind thinking that's what I was saying!
In reply to cider nut:
Its too late, the lemmings are unleashed now :-o
Anyway Arno's book is full of bloody hippy nonsense (shhhh we dont want people showing us up by improving faster than us
Its too late, the lemmings are unleashed now :-o
Anyway Arno's book is full of bloody hippy nonsense (shhhh we dont want people showing us up by improving faster than us
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:
i like the article and in a nutshell i think this is a technique that i have been practising in a very simplified form over the last year which has enabled me to become fairly competent at HVS, start moving up into the E1s and even lead my first E2..
It is very simply the mantra of 'get on it'
i.e. look at a route with your mate and then just say 'yep, i'm doing it'.
It all started with Spectre (3 pitch HVS at the grochan last year) last year - there were no VS's available so we just got on this without warming up and scared ourselves silly. But we did it and from then on just got on HVS's without warming up, or as it might otherwise be explained, without having the opportunity to psyche ourselves out...
Get on it!
i like the article and in a nutshell i think this is a technique that i have been practising in a very simplified form over the last year which has enabled me to become fairly competent at HVS, start moving up into the E1s and even lead my first E2..
It is very simply the mantra of 'get on it'
i.e. look at a route with your mate and then just say 'yep, i'm doing it'.
It all started with Spectre (3 pitch HVS at the grochan last year) last year - there were no VS's available so we just got on this without warming up and scared ourselves silly. But we did it and from then on just got on HVS's without warming up, or as it might otherwise be explained, without having the opportunity to psyche ourselves out...
Get on it!
In reply to cider nut:
Great article that made for interesting reading. I read Arno's book and got bored half way through...I'd rather be out climbing or reading something a little more light-hearted. Maybe because I've always had the "just get on with it and enjoy it" approach when it comes to climbing anyway. I just found his book a bit like any "management course" or similar, that I've ever had the misfortune to attend. Tells you what you already know, but very repetitively and in such a way that makes it sound like something new and ground-breaking.
Good to see you at the Works at weekend.
Drop me a line if you wanna get out climbing sometime...I have another 6 weeks off work and am keen to get out as much as possible. Let's go scare ouselves stupid and throw caution to the wind
Great article that made for interesting reading. I read Arno's book and got bored half way through...I'd rather be out climbing or reading something a little more light-hearted. Maybe because I've always had the "just get on with it and enjoy it" approach when it comes to climbing anyway. I just found his book a bit like any "management course" or similar, that I've ever had the misfortune to attend. Tells you what you already know, but very repetitively and in such a way that makes it sound like something new and ground-breaking.
Good to see you at the Works at weekend.
Drop me a line if you wanna get out climbing sometime...I have another 6 weeks off work and am keen to get out as much as possible. Let's go scare ouselves stupid and throw caution to the wind
In reply to Franco Cookson:
Get it uploaded i wanna read it!!!
Get it uploaded i wanna read it!!!
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:
Good article. I can relate to a lot of that. I find that I get stuck in a grade rut some years and it's a battle to break through it. You managed to pin down some of the issues that tend to hold me back.
Good article. I can relate to a lot of that. I find that I get stuck in a grade rut some years and it's a battle to break through it. You managed to pin down some of the issues that tend to hold me back.
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:
Well done Sarah on two counts. The HVS on sight/E1 leads and the article. It was a good read.
I read that book and starting trying to apply it. I was so glad that you pulled this part out:
After we've been climbing for a while, we tend to lose the open-mindedness and quick learning that characterized our early climbing experiences.
Because this is quite a key point for me (and in the book I think).
It's hard work trying to keep that open minded and quick learning state!
Well done Sarah on two counts. The HVS on sight/E1 leads and the article. It was a good read.
I read that book and starting trying to apply it. I was so glad that you pulled this part out:
After we've been climbing for a while, we tend to lose the open-mindedness and quick learning that characterized our early climbing experiences.
Because this is quite a key point for me (and in the book I think).
It's hard work trying to keep that open minded and quick learning state!
I really like Arno's book. It suits my learning style (unlike OFFWIDTH maybe). I'm really glad it's working for you. Over the winter it definitely helped with my indoor grades, which reached new levels. But so far, for one reason or another (weather, partners) I've not been able to use much of what I might have learned outside. Am expectant though. If it's "all in the head" as so many say, then that's where the number one training priority is.
Wilbur - in essence it's the same but I had to go into it in a lot more detail, as the simple approach wasn't 'just do it' working, I had to understand 'why'.
PeakDJ - I understand the book's not for everyone, I read it cover to cover though! Am able to get out most evenings, drop me a line.
SFM, tommyzero and others - thanks! TZ - that line was right at the start of the book, and as soon as I read it I knew I was going to learn lots from it!
PeakDJ - I understand the book's not for everyone, I read it cover to cover though! Am able to get out most evenings, drop me a line.
SFM, tommyzero and others - thanks! TZ - that line was right at the start of the book, and as soon as I read it I knew I was going to learn lots from it!
In reply to cider nut:
I agree with Wilbur to some extent. I don't think it's useful for me to think too much about my climbing. Just getting on with it without any navel-gazing usually works for me.
Wilbur - Left Wall is ace! Did it last week and it didn't disappoint. Glad I just "got on it"
>
> PeakDJ - I understand the book's not for everyone, I read it cover to cover though! Am able to get out most evenings, drop me a line.
>
I do have an attention span that is much shorter than that of the average person, so maybe that explains why I didn't finish the book!> PeakDJ - I understand the book's not for everyone, I read it cover to cover though! Am able to get out most evenings, drop me a line.
>
I agree with Wilbur to some extent. I don't think it's useful for me to think too much about my climbing. Just getting on with it without any navel-gazing usually works for me.
Wilbur - Left Wall is ace! Did it last week and it didn't disappoint. Glad I just "got on it"
In reply to 1234None:
I agree everyone's different, you've just got to find what works for you. Navel gazing works for me!!
I agree everyone's different, you've just got to find what works for you. Navel gazing works for me!!
In reply to 1234None:
haha - excellent, good work!
I was glad i just got on it too! Although i nearly got off it at 2 seperate points. I think that just made it all the more memorable
> (In reply to cider nut)
>
> [...]
> I do have an attention span that is much shorter than that of the average person, so maybe that explains why I didn't finish the book!
>
> I agree with Wilbur to some extent. I don't think it's useful for me to think too much about my climbing. Just getting on with it without any navel-gazing usually works for me.
>
> Wilbur - Left Wall is ace! Did it last week and it didn't disappoint. Glad I just "got on it"
>
> [...]
> I do have an attention span that is much shorter than that of the average person, so maybe that explains why I didn't finish the book!
>
> I agree with Wilbur to some extent. I don't think it's useful for me to think too much about my climbing. Just getting on with it without any navel-gazing usually works for me.
>
> Wilbur - Left Wall is ace! Did it last week and it didn't disappoint. Glad I just "got on it"
haha - excellent, good work!
I was glad i just got on it too! Although i nearly got off it at 2 seperate points. I think that just made it all the more memorable
In reply to cider nut: Well done CN! After seeing your fire place mantle piece mantles and knowing how much you climb, I have to confess I wondered why you were not climbing E1 (if you wanted to)! You certainly seemed capable, as a lot of routes you've done have been harder than some easy E1s IMHO.
Which route was your first E1?
Lots of good reminders in your article, thanks.
Which route was your first E1?
Lots of good reminders in your article, thanks.
In reply to Wilbur:
I would add to "get on it", "what's the worst that could happen" - in most cases this is only slump on some gear (within your own control anyway)
I would add to "get on it", "what's the worst that could happen" - in most cases this is only slump on some gear (within your own control anyway)
In reply to cider nut:
Just read your article Sarah, and it seems like you have it more or less hard wired into your brain now how to do harder stuff, excellent, and congratulations on stepping up a gear.
All those people climbing within their comfort zone for over two years should read and digest your ideas, and get out of them if they want to climb harder.
Now you can walk up to most E1s, and the odd E2 and look up and say let's do that today instead of wondering about it. The odd one not suited to you may stop you, but not many will.
Just read your article Sarah, and it seems like you have it more or less hard wired into your brain now how to do harder stuff, excellent, and congratulations on stepping up a gear.
All those people climbing within their comfort zone for over two years should read and digest your ideas, and get out of them if they want to climb harder.
Now you can walk up to most E1s, and the odd E2 and look up and say let's do that today instead of wondering about it. The odd one not suited to you may stop you, but not many will.
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:
I`ve done 60 VS`s now and should be stepping up a grade, but my mind game is now shelling out £25 for that book of yours, would you lend it me
I`ve done 60 VS`s now and should be stepping up a grade, but my mind game is now shelling out £25 for that book of yours, would you lend it me
In reply to J1234:
lol
You're not looking for it on Amazon are you? Try here, £15 plus postage http://www.cordee.co.uk/CTC141.php
lol
You're not looking for it on Amazon are you? Try here, £15 plus postage http://www.cordee.co.uk/CTC141.php
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:
Excellent article CN. At 46 I'm at the top of my personal game now and feel I still have someway to go. I think you mentioned it but for me it is really i'mportant to get a balance in life and in climbing. ie 'believe it or not climbing is not everything' and Climbing is for enjoyment as well as challenge'
Last night a few of us went down to Juniper wall on the gower. When we got there the shallow rock platform out to see was white with wind whipped surf. I lead my relatively unfit partner up assassin. I've done it 10 or 20 times before but it still makes me grin. We then had a go at something which was a challenge - something which I've failed on before ie the Jackal finish. Got it Nailed. Finally cruised up a VS a had not done before as the sun went down, blazing over worms head and the high tide brought the sea spray right to the top of the cliff.
Now to me this is the perfect climbing experience because it has so much more than pushing the grade.
I reckon, if all goes well, I've got another 10 years or so to get better but after that point I hope I'll carry on enjoying myself in beautiful places. What encourages me about your article is not particularly that you have got off a grade plateau but that you are enjoying your climbing so much more.
As I said - great thought provoking stuff. cheers
Excellent article CN. At 46 I'm at the top of my personal game now and feel I still have someway to go. I think you mentioned it but for me it is really i'mportant to get a balance in life and in climbing. ie 'believe it or not climbing is not everything' and Climbing is for enjoyment as well as challenge'
Last night a few of us went down to Juniper wall on the gower. When we got there the shallow rock platform out to see was white with wind whipped surf. I lead my relatively unfit partner up assassin. I've done it 10 or 20 times before but it still makes me grin. We then had a go at something which was a challenge - something which I've failed on before ie the Jackal finish. Got it Nailed. Finally cruised up a VS a had not done before as the sun went down, blazing over worms head and the high tide brought the sea spray right to the top of the cliff.
Now to me this is the perfect climbing experience because it has so much more than pushing the grade.
I reckon, if all goes well, I've got another 10 years or so to get better but after that point I hope I'll carry on enjoying myself in beautiful places. What encourages me about your article is not particularly that you have got off a grade plateau but that you are enjoying your climbing so much more.
As I said - great thought provoking stuff. cheers
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:
some really interesting stuff in this article - it's what Fiend has been banging on to me about for the last couple of years. That boy's a wise 'un!
some really interesting stuff in this article - it's what Fiend has been banging on to me about for the last couple of years. That boy's a wise 'un!
In reply to chris wyatt:
This nonsense is what's destroying climbing.
> (In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC)
>
> climbing is not everything' and Climbing is for enjoyment as well as challenge'
>
>
> climbing is not everything' and Climbing is for enjoyment as well as challenge'
>
This nonsense is what's destroying climbing.
In reply to Franco Cookson:
to each their own, Franco, to each their own. We all take our own enjoyment from these things, whether it's super-hard solos or a day doing enchainments of easy routes in the mountains.
to each their own, Franco, to each their own. We all take our own enjoyment from these things, whether it's super-hard solos or a day doing enchainments of easy routes in the mountains.
In reply to Franco Cookson:
Whoops sorry Franco you've put me in my place well and truly.
> (In reply to chris wyatt)
> [...]
>
> This nonsense is what's destroying climbing.
> [...]
>
> This nonsense is what's destroying climbing.
Whoops sorry Franco you've put me in my place well and truly.
In reply to chris wyatt: twas a bit of a joke.
In reply to Franco: I know - as was mine! Anyway lets stop hijacking the thread
In reply to cider nut:
Ta ordered it. Did my first new route yesterday, so with this book I might also crack HVS/E1.
Ta ordered it. Did my first new route yesterday, so with this book I might also crack HVS/E1.
In reply to cider nut:
Great article, I thought it was just me. Quite an inspirational article actually.
Great article, I thought it was just me. Quite an inspirational article actually.
In reply to cider nut: I have also plateaued at VS for a while, and have just read the rock warriors way, Im hoping for similar results to yourself, its an excellent book, plenty in there to recognise about your own habits.
well done
well done
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:
To progress, i choose easier E1's that the guide book described as one hard move and then reasonably easy climbing not continued strenuous technical climbing. The other technique i use is pushing up a grade scaring the hell out of myself and then dropping down a grade to find it suddenly surprisingly easy. with this technique im able to conquer harder routes or progress on to strenuous routes of the grade below.
Simon
To progress, i choose easier E1's that the guide book described as one hard move and then reasonably easy climbing not continued strenuous technical climbing. The other technique i use is pushing up a grade scaring the hell out of myself and then dropping down a grade to find it suddenly surprisingly easy. with this technique im able to conquer harder routes or progress on to strenuous routes of the grade below.
Simon
In reply to Franco Cookson: I agree. I thought the CN article was one of the finest things ever to appear on UKC.com. The sort of response Franco doesn't like - "climbing is not everything" - is not only another glimpse of the blindingly obvious but another variation on the comfort zone theme.
In reply to potted shrimp: are you agreeing with me or someone else?
In reply to cider nut:
Completely agree with what you say in terms of daring yourself to step outside of your comfort zone and just get on those routes that you know you want to do really, just haven't got the balls to do 99% of the time. The odd occasion I have just got on those routes, embraced the uncertainty, but given it my all (still climbing safe mind!) are those where I have indeed done my best climbing. On one or two occasions I've failed, but mostly I've succeeded - surprising myself and my climbing partner(s) but making for great days out. I think I even enjoyed it on the day!
Last few years have been so dogged by injury (as currently, yet again) that am finding it hard to get any motivation now though. When I get out climbing now I find I don't want really to scare myself and go through that cycle of "I'm rubbish, why do I do this to myself, I should give up" and I do tend to take the soft option and do stuff I know I can manage fairly easily.
My challenge now is to find a strategy to keep climbing at an "interesting" level whilst keeping climbing fit.
Completely agree with what you say in terms of daring yourself to step outside of your comfort zone and just get on those routes that you know you want to do really, just haven't got the balls to do 99% of the time. The odd occasion I have just got on those routes, embraced the uncertainty, but given it my all (still climbing safe mind!) are those where I have indeed done my best climbing. On one or two occasions I've failed, but mostly I've succeeded - surprising myself and my climbing partner(s) but making for great days out. I think I even enjoyed it on the day!
Last few years have been so dogged by injury (as currently, yet again) that am finding it hard to get any motivation now though. When I get out climbing now I find I don't want really to scare myself and go through that cycle of "I'm rubbish, why do I do this to myself, I should give up" and I do tend to take the soft option and do stuff I know I can manage fairly easily.
My challenge now is to find a strategy to keep climbing at an "interesting" level whilst keeping climbing fit.
In reply to JonC:
It's definitely mostly about getting on the routes in the first place! (The grade jump was kind of a by product (although an exciting one) - the 'VS-E1' comment in the title was added by the article editors, for searching and marketing purposes I assume).
As usual I sympathise with the injuries - just picked up another finger injury myself, but I'm getting much better at managing them.
It's definitely mostly about getting on the routes in the first place! (The grade jump was kind of a by product (although an exciting one) - the 'VS-E1' comment in the title was added by the article editors, for searching and marketing purposes I assume).
As usual I sympathise with the injuries - just picked up another finger injury myself, but I'm getting much better at managing them.
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:
Just to add my twist, I also suffered a good 6 month plateau at VS, this was magicaly solved through no cunning or guile of my own but through use of a rather tatty old guide book of symonds yat. Turns out the pleasant 2 VS pitches had been upgraded to E1, I presume this mainly to very little rock actually being attached to anything, and the remainder being held on by grass. I found it challenging but no more than any other less pretected route. Now all I need to do is Climb E1 on purpose, might prove interesting!
Just to add my twist, I also suffered a good 6 month plateau at VS, this was magicaly solved through no cunning or guile of my own but through use of a rather tatty old guide book of symonds yat. Turns out the pleasant 2 VS pitches had been upgraded to E1, I presume this mainly to very little rock actually being attached to anything, and the remainder being held on by grass. I found it challenging but no more than any other less pretected route. Now all I need to do is Climb E1 on purpose, might prove interesting!
In reply to 1234None: Open your mind!
In reply to Franco Cookson: You really are a tit...if you don't enjoy it what is the point???
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:
Just wanted to say thank you for a great article Cider, I can so relate to your feelings and statements here and am on the way back to the joy of climbing after several years very sporadic climbing each time thinking - oh I am no good at this, and making those excuses you talk about... lol.
Its good to hear someone else knows this feeling and has come through it so well! Thanks
I too can't wait to hear the sequal article someone suggested earlier on in the thread!
Just wanted to say thank you for a great article Cider, I can so relate to your feelings and statements here and am on the way back to the joy of climbing after several years very sporadic climbing each time thinking - oh I am no good at this, and making those excuses you talk about... lol.
Its good to hear someone else knows this feeling and has come through it so well! Thanks
I too can't wait to hear the sequal article someone suggested earlier on in the thread!
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:
Thanks, Cider Nut...good stuff. I've just read RWW and was so pleased to find your article to see the advice put into action with such excellent results. Hope I can follow suit!
Thanks, Cider Nut...good stuff. I've just read RWW and was so pleased to find your article to see the advice put into action with such excellent results. Hope I can follow suit!
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