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geographical oddity

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was just looking at some OS maps earlier, to pass the time (no one else do this...? oh...), and i noticed on landanger 19 that lochan fada behind slioch seems to have 2 outflows- the abhainn an fhasaigh and the abhainn gleann na muice- both end up in loch maree leaving the land around beinn a'mhuinidh effectively an 'island'... this seems highly unusual, anyone know if its natural or a man made feature... if natural, is it unique or does it happen elsewhere...?

(and does anyone else like looking at maps, not for practical purposes to plan a route etc, but just because they are interesting things to look at...)

cheers
gregor
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

oh dear. it *is* just me

<slinks off quietly, closes door behind him...>
 fimm 30 Jun 2008
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

> (and does anyone else like looking at maps, not for practical purposes to plan a route etc, but just because they are interesting things to look at...)

Oh yes, I can look at maps for ages
My Dad loves and collects maps, so I got used to looking at them when I was a child. Now I'm slowly building my own collection; those that were bought for a specific trip make excellent souvenirs, too.

I can't think of any other similar features to the one you describe, though.
 BelleVedere 30 Jun 2008
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

It's not just you - I 'heart' maps

I was lucky enough to acquire OS maps for nearly the whole of Scotland (multiple copies of some) and my living room has a massive old map of langdale on
rich 30 Jun 2008
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs: give us a streetmap link or a grid reference or somthing then
bergalia 30 Jun 2008
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:


No, you're not alone NMSE - I spend hours (literally hours) pouring over sea charts (nostalgia) and land maps. Plots as good as most novels.
By the by, many Australian rivers run 'inland' - and vanish beneath the deserts.
 iceicebaby 30 Jun 2008
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

Nah its not just you, I can spend hours looking at maps! Maybe is a wee bit sad but there are worse things to be doing I suppose.


Don't have said OS map to hand but i'm intrigued now so I'm going to have to get that one out when I get home!
In reply to all:

<phew>

not just me! i particularly like OS, never really taken to Harvey's, aesthetically not as pleasing to my mind... and ones featuring islands are particularly nice (i have a particular fondness for landranger 22 with benbecula and s uist, a chaos of land and water...)

they *do* make good souveniers, brought back one of the South Patagonian ice cap from Argentina, its got satellite photos, info about glaciation, all sorts of bonus extras...!

back to the feature i was on about: its on landranger sheet 19, grid ref NH 04 69- one stream flows SW, the other SE... i wonder if one of the channels is man made..?

cheers
gregor
In reply to Toreador:

yes ,thats the one...!

cheers
gregor
 nz Cragrat 30 Jun 2008
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

Your post isn't about maps but incomprehensible and un spellable words ... shame
In reply to nz Cragrat:

lol... i took *great* care in the spelling... but as to the pronouncation, wouldnt like to say... any gaelic speakers out there...?
 Niall 30 Jun 2008
In reply to bergalia:
> (In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs)
> I spend hours (literally hours) pouring over sea charts

I hope they're waterproof <coat, taxi>
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

abhainn an fhasaigh = something like avon an vassey (i think...)
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs: You aren't the only mapaholic saddo. Nothing like some nice curvy contours to get me in the mood. Between perusing them and guidebooks it's a wonder I ever get out to climb at all.

That's a weird feature; at a guess I'd say it was natural.
 sutty 30 Jun 2008
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?G2M?X=204720&Y=869640&A=Y&...

Not really an oddity, probably the first outlet was the one cut through rock, the other one was a lot higher at one time then as the levels of land altered the second one was formed as softer rock was washed away.

Maps are like books, you can always find something new on them, make plans to explore, find your way, pick camp sites and crags to visit, all on one bit of paper in your living room.

Look at this area, walkers often decide to follow the river down to Grasmere, but 100m to the left and they end up in Wythburn, with a long road walk for their negligent navigation, usually talking. We were so close to doing the same one winter, only a quick check of the compass saved us.

http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?G2M?X=329435&Y=509940&A=Y&...
 Bobbygloss 30 Jun 2008
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:
I've seen that somewhere else, think it was a lochan behind (east of) Cairnwell, towards Beinn Iutharn Mhor?
Not got the map with me though.
 220bpm 30 Jun 2008
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:
> was just looking at some OS maps earlier, to pass the time (no one else do this...? oh...), and i noticed on landanger 19 that lochan fada behind slioch seems to have 2 outflows- the abhainn an fhasaigh and the abhainn gleann na muice- both end up in loch maree leaving the land around beinn a'mhuinidh effectively an 'island'... this seems highly unusual, anyone know if its natural or a man made feature... if natural, is it unique or does it happen elsewhere...?
>
> (and does anyone else like looking at maps, not for practical purposes to plan a route etc, but just because they are interesting things to look at...)
>
> cheers
> gregor

Hamish Brown mentions it and a couple of others (one in Knoydart springs to mind) in his Mountain Walk book.

Maps rule Much better than the vast majority of books. Gimme an OS Landranger any time!

bergalia 30 Jun 2008
In reply to Niall:
> (In reply to bergalia)
> [...]
>
> I hope they're waterproof <coat, taxi>



Northern Ireland eh... Right, I almost know where you live...

But LOL.
 Simon Caldwell 30 Jun 2008
In reply to Bobbygloss:
This one perhaps?
http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?G2M?X=306380&Y=778305&A=Y&...

The map doesn't show the NE stream as coming from the lochan, but I imagine it might join up after wet weather?
 Mehmet Karatay 30 Jun 2008
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

Well spotted. That is odd having such a big "island", but as they both flow into the same place eventually the potential difference is the same so both routes should be valid. As I understand it it's not much different to water flowing around an actual island.

On the first day of my ml assessment we noticed a burn which seemed to split into two in some moorland and go off in completely different directions. When we went there we realised that it was actually two burns that a foot or so of peat stopped converging. When the aerial survey was done they hadn't realised that the second burn carried uphill independently and hadn't mapped it. The OS was called and on the Wednesday one of their employees showed up to resurvey the area and to fix the problem on future maps. It was interesting seeing how quickly they responded.

Mehmet
Yrmenlaf 30 Jun 2008
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

I think the Southern outlet, through the deep gorge is the main outlet: the Eastern one almost has a watershed between the two lochans.

It is amazing how the Southern outlet has carved itself such a gorge, tho'. Is it because the ground has been rising (over geological time) or has the stream taken advantage of the joint between the Torridon Sandstone of Slioch and the other rock (can't remember what it is - markedly pale grey as opposed to red)

I love maps me.

Y.
In reply to sutty:

oh yes, i see... we took the wythburn path (deliberately!) last year, nice walk, but a lot longer

i made a similar mistake once on carn mairg in glen lyon, ended up with a very long walk back to the car. it was a long time ago now, but i'm still reminded about it at times...

gregor
 Simon Caldwell 30 Jun 2008
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:
Sounds like it may actually be Loch an Sgeireach to the south east that has two outflows
http://www.psy.gla.ac.uk/~steve/river.html
 Mehmet Karatay 30 Jun 2008
In reply to Mehmet Karatay:

Here's the burn that looks like it splits into two. http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=280500&y=742500&z=3&sv=...

As stated in my previous post, it's actually two burns that converge, but don't meet. The upper section of the second burn hasn't been mapped.

Mehmet
johnSD 30 Jun 2008
In reply to Toreador:

Loch na Davie on Arran is on a watershed and feeds two glens

http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=195500&y=645500&z=3&sv=...

 j_duds 30 Jun 2008
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:
I haven't been but:
"the visitor may like to another longer walk to investigate what the map makes it look is a lake with two exits: Locahan Fada [ref. OS Landranger no.19, 1:50,000, NH053695]. This is not real. The western exit is real, the eastern one is (at present) an inflow. Loch an Sgeireach is in fact the highest in the apparent chain. Currently (July 2000) it flows out into Lochan Fada, but there is a clear channel at its other, southern, end to Loch Gleann na Muice which has seen flow pretty recently; it looks as if after heavy rain, the loch's level has only to rise about 3 feet for it to flow out in two different directions, into two different lochs, and down two different steep valleys. "
http://www.psy.gla.ac.uk/~steve/river.html

Very interesting!
 iceicebaby 30 Jun 2008
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

Hmm yeah its looks a natural feature. Interesting though. I'd say the deeply incised rock cut channel of Gleann Bianasdail is the newer drainage pathway of the two. It looks as though that valley is a glacial breach given how deep/steep it is. The whole area has been repeatedly glaciated, and I would guess that erosion by ice and pressurised subglacial melt water would have gradually deepened this breach sufficiently to eventually allow melt water from Lochan Fada to pour down into it. Its a tricky one though because it would also depend on the variability of the water level in Lochan Fada itself (probably also controlled by repeated glacial deepening - its over 40m deep).

Right I better quit looking at this map and do some work!!
In reply to Toreador:

thanks! sounds like we have an answer...

gregor
In reply to Mehmet Karatay:
> (In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs)
>
The OS was called and on the Wednesday one of their employees showed up to resurvey the area and to fix the problem on future maps. It was interesting seeing how quickly they responded.
>


wow! the OS rapid response team...

i'd like that job...

gregor

 Bobbygloss 30 Jun 2008
In reply to Toreador:
> (In reply to Bobbygloss)
> This one perhaps?
> http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?G2M?X=306380&Y=778305&A=Y&...
> The map doesn't show the NE stream as coming from the lochan, but I imagine it might join up after wet weather?

Loch nan Eun, that was it. I've just looked on the OS Get-a-map page, both streams appear to reach the loch on there.
 iceicebaby 30 Jun 2008
In reply to j_duds:

Ah ha, now that explains things rather well! Darn, no more wild speculations.
 Joe G 30 Jun 2008
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

The eastern burn was definately flowing into the loch when I stepped over it on the morning of the 2nd January this year. Incidentally the 1:10,000 online map that I have at work marks the burn as an outflow... Question is, should I contact the OS about this...?
Yrmenlaf 30 Jun 2008
In reply to Joe G:

And early May when I was there.

Y.
psd 30 Jun 2008
In reply to j_duds:

Thanks for that - I'd been looking at the gap between the two smaller lochs and thought the contour lines suggested that they weren't flowing into each other but both fed by the stream from the SW splitting, probably from an area of bog higher than the two. Glad to see the truth isn't so far away.

I think puzzles like this are one of the best things about absent-minded map reading - it forces you to process more clues purely from the data, instead of being able to bring clues from the landscape. I'm sure that practice helps your navigiation and ability to make sensible decisions out on the hills.
 Cam Forrest 30 Jun 2008
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs: Ordnance Surveys from 1874 to 1955 in fact show no connection between Loch an Sgeireach and Loch Gleann na Muice. Looks like this was changed either in 1974 "Revision") or 1988 ("selected changes"). Looks like the area may have been revisited by the OS at a time of heavy rainfall!
In reply to Cam Forrest:

that is interesting... and a whole new subject, 'old maps'...! which are, if anything, even more interesting that current ones, watching changes unfold over time...

cheers,

gregor
 fimm 30 Jun 2008
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:
> a whole new subject, 'old maps'...! which are, if anything, even more interesting that current ones, watching changes unfold over time...

Hehe yes, my Dad collects old One Inch maps (of a particular series - can't remember which one) and they are interesting to look at, especially if you know the area. The 1:50000 are much better for hill navigation, though!
stonechat 30 Jun 2008
In reply to Yrmenlaf:
> (In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs)
>
> It is amazing how the Southern outlet has carved itself such a gorge, tho'. Is it because the ground has been rising (over geological time) or has the stream taken advantage of the joint between the Torridon Sandstone of Slioch and the other rock (can't remember what it is - markedly pale grey as opposed to red)
>

i would guess more the latter, as the glen follows a major thrust line in the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moine_Thrust_Belt

The discovery of the Moine Thrust in 1907 was a milestone in the history of geology as it was one of the first thrust belts discovered


Earlier in 1860, the 25 year old Archibald Geikie completed an audacious piece of rapid reconnaissance geology. He walked alone from Kinlochewe to Ullapool, tracing the Cambrian quartzites through what, even today, is some of the most remote countryside in the British Isles. His observations were used to reaffirm Murchison's view of stratigraphic continuity in the NW Highlands, and cast doubt on Nicol's competing hypothesis of tectonic disruption. This serious blunder was only recovered 25 years later. Is there a role for this type of reconnaissance geology? Just how much science could be done covering those 40 km (with a shade over 1000m of ascent and descent) during daylight hours?

Well 'ard!

http://www.see.leeds.ac.uk/structure/assyntgeology/extra_info/walk/
 iceicebaby 30 Jun 2008
In reply to stonechat:

I think the valley that the southern stream occupies is of glacial origin, its on too big a scale to have been cut by a river alone even with the land rising. The land has only been rising since the ice disappeared, which in that neck of the woods was only c.10,000 years ago... pretty recent! Torridonian and Lewissian gneiss (the grey stuff under the Torridonian) take some eroding, both very hard (and very old!) rocks. Your're probably right about it being a line of weakness if that is a geologicial boundary/fault though.

Its a cool area, wish I was up there the noo!
Yrmenlaf 30 Jun 2008
In reply to Cam Forrest:
> (In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs) Ordnance Surveys from 1874 to 1955 in fact show no connection between Loch an Sgeireach and Loch Gleann na Muice. Looks like this was changed either in 1974 "Revision") or 1988 ("selected changes"). Looks like the area may have been revisited by the OS at a time of heavy rainfall!

Is it possible that in the 120 years between the original survey and now that the land has moved vertically by the three or four metres necessary to switch the flow?

Y.
Yrmenlaf 30 Jun 2008
In reply to iceicebaby:

Its a very steep sided, very straight "V"

Y.
Yrmenlaf 30 Jun 2008
In reply to stonechat:

This:

http://www.huttonsarse.com/

Gives a passionate account of the history of Geological research in the area.

Y.
 ebygomm 30 Jun 2008
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

I spend hours looking at maps and I get paid for it
 iceicebaby 30 Jun 2008
In reply to Yrmenlaf:

Good book that. Entertaining read!

I disagree on the V-shape, but the shape is almost irrelevant when the valley is a few hundred metres deep and cut through solid bedrock. That screams ice ice baby!

I reckon the main valley of Gleann Bianasdail was almost certainly carved by a glacier flowing out of Coire na Sleaghaich. Such a glacier would have formed a tributary of the main glacier in the area which would've been gouging out the trench that now holds Loch Maree.

But who knows? That's the beauty of a map - gives you the bones of the landscape, the rest is up to you.
Yrmenlaf 30 Jun 2008
In reply to iceicebaby:

I will bow to your superior knowledge.

I've spent a few days over the last couple or three springs wandering about up there (I aim for the gap between snow and midgies), and conclude that it is too complex for me.

Perhaps I need to take a geological map....

I did post a thread asking for good text on the geology of Fisherfield, and got a response that I have not had time to look in to yet.

Y.
Yrmenlaf 30 Jun 2008
 Al Evans 01 Jul 2008
In reply to Yrmenlaf: Interestingly the OS maps have a lot (well not compared to most other maps) of mistakes.
The original Dark Peak map even managed to misplace an iconic feature like Kinder Downfall 200mts out!
When I was doing my ML training on the moors above Conway, the instructor set us a problem navigating to a small pond. When we got there there was no pond in sight, what was marked as a pond was in fact a small sheepfold. Obviously he knew that and it was a test of how confident we were in our navigation. Dare we call the OS wrong
Yrmenlaf 01 Jul 2008
In reply to Al Evans:

I heard a story once: I don't know how true it is.

The OS were sueing a rival mapmaker, for theft of survey data: the maps were the same, so the data must be tolen

The rival mapmaker argued that of course their maps were the same as the OS maps: they were both based on accurate surveys of the ground

The OS pointed out that they introduced deliberate errors into their maps, and the rival had copied them, mistakes and all.

Reassuring when you are dead reckonning across Kinder!

Y.
 Al Evans 01 Jul 2008
In reply to Yrmenlaf: I have heard this story before, in fact it was discussed at length on an earlier thread, was the other company 'Harveys', I'd love to know the truth behind it.
The KMRT told the OS about the mistake over Kinder Downfall and the first edition of Dark Peak was withdrawn post haste, not many were ever sold!.
Jim Crow 01 Jul 2008
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

What about the Nidderdale exploere OS map which appears to have a picture of Kransic Crack on the front... or am I mistaken?!

http://leisure.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/leisure/productDetails.jsp?item=3742&am...
 ebygomm 01 Jul 2008
In reply to Yrmenlaf:

Ordnance Survey say they don't introduce deliberate errors, they have other ways of detecting copying.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2001/mar/06/andrewclark
 Al Evans 01 Jul 2008
In reply to ebygomm: Thank you, so it was the AA, and not quite as said about the OS, good to think the OS has integrity after all.
 Banned User 77 01 Jul 2008
In reply to ebygomm:
> (In reply to Yrmenlaf)
>
> Ordnance Survey say they don't introduce deliberate errors, they have other ways of detecting copying.
>
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2001/mar/06/andrewclark

I'm not sure, I know of a good few errors on OS maps in Snowdonia. Cairn's wrongly placed, walls marked as streams etc. I've heard they do it too and believe that, either that or they make a lot of mistakes. The mistakes are normally quite small and easily spotted, i.e. the 'stream' crosses contours then goes back through them again.
In reply to IainRUK:

I notice that the official right of way off Moel Hebog is still "interesting" - http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?G2M?X=256725&Y=347495&A=Y&...

ALC
 iceicebaby 01 Jul 2008
In reply to Yrmenlaf:

Yeah its a structurally very complex part of the world. Geological maps are amazing, there's so much information on them. I find them fascinating but a bit tricky! A good text will help you make sense of them. If you're keen on this stuff a good starting place is the following online publication:

http://www.snh.org.uk/publications/on-line/geology/northwesthighlands/defau...

For the British Isles in general a nice book is:

http://www.guardianbookshop.co.uk/BerteShopWeb/viewProduct.do?ISBN=97818403...

If you want to get into the latest academic debates on the geology of Scotland, then a very comprehensive and up to date text is:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Geology-Scotland-N-H-Trewin/dp/1862391262

The latter has a lot on the NW highlands but covers all of Scotland. There's a Quaternary chapter also which covers the impacts of the numerous ice ages on shaping the landscape.
Iain Forrest 01 Jul 2008
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:
Interesting.
A different, but related, set of features is burns that branch as they flow downhill.
One that I've checked out is on Stob Coire Sgriodain here:
http://tinyurl.com/673nd8

Different, but interesting, are the burns displaced along the Kinloch Hourn Fault here (there's a gully running across the hill, roughly where the pylons are), apparently due to movements on it as the land resettled after the glaciers melted:
http://tinyurl.com/5565lz - though this is more striking when you see it "in the flesh".
 iceicebaby 01 Jul 2008
In reply to Iain Forrest:

That is interesting. Certainly looks like movement along a fault, but I wonder home come its lateral movement? I'd have thought the main type of fault activity to stem from isostatic reajustment of the land (rising after weight of ice removed) would be vertical displacement? Its also quite a lot of displacement to have occurred in just a few thousand years. I wonder if there's another explanation.

Ideas anyone?! I'm going to have to go and read up! This thread needs to end, its much more interesting that my current research!
Iain Forrest 01 Jul 2008
In reply to iceicebaby:
I'm not sure whether there has been much lateral movement postglacially - it could just be vertical movement that has raised the land to the South of the fault creating a cross-slope gully that burns now flow into then along until they reach a point they can spill down to the South.
It's a very striking feature, and worth a visit combined with a round of the hills above (I did it when walking round the twin Corbetts Buidhe Bheinn and Sgurr a'Bhac Chaolais, and Sgurr na Sgine).
 aln 01 Jul 2008
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs: There's another odd feature that you might find interesting, in that area. Quoted from Hamish Browns Corbett book - " The number of islands on Loch Maree varies according to the level of the water but Eilean Subhainn is the biggest, and has a loch in it,obviously higher than Loch Maree, yet 64 feet deep, 30 feet deeper than Loch Maree."
Iain Forrest 01 Jul 2008
 iceicebaby 01 Jul 2008
In reply to Iain Forrest:

Oooh interesting! Thanking you - right up my street is this stuff.

Wouldn't mind going to have a look at that feature sometime to see the evidence for myself. From that abstract it sounds like there is some sedimentary evidence to help unravel the story too. Sounds like a plan to tag it onto a cheeky corbett round aye! Cheers.
 aln 02 Jul 2008
In reply to aln: No-one else think that's unusual?
 sammoore 02 Jul 2008
In reply to Al Evans:

> When I was doing my ML training on the moors above Conway, the instructor set us a problem navigating to a small pond. When we got there there was no pond in sight, what was marked as a pond was in fact a small sheepfold. Obviously he knew that and it was a test of how confident we were in our navigation.

We had exactly the same test in my ML in 2003. I wonder if it is passed from examiner to examiner like some ancient lore.

 aln 02 Jul 2008
In reply to aln: No-one else think that's unusual? apparently not
Iain Forrest 02 Jul 2008
In reply to aln:
It would be interesting, but Loch Maree actually appears to be over 110m deep, and more than 70m deep not far W of Eilean Subhainn:
http://tinyurl.com/58c93t (map should be draggable).
Mr. Brown may have been confused!
 iceicebaby 02 Jul 2008
In reply to aln:

I presume Hamish meant that bottom of the small Lochan is 30ft below the level of the surface of Loch Maree...

It would've been more interesting if that wee Loch was ACTUALLY deeper than Loch Maree though - now that would've taken some explaining!
 aln 02 Jul 2008
In reply to Iain Forrest:
> (In reply to aln)
> It would be interesting,
It's still interesting
Mr. Brown may have been confused!

 aln 02 Jul 2008
In reply to iceicebaby: That's what I'm talking about.
 aln 03 Jul 2008
In reply to iceicebaby: I've re-read it many times and I'm still not sure which of those meanings apply. Surely either is still unusual?
In reply to aln:

Not really - mainland UK is an island and there are several lakes on that island where the bed of the lake is below see level - Loch Ness is one and I believe Windermere is another.

It is quite unusual to have the situation of a lake on a small island within a lake. Looking at the map it appears that the surface of the lakes on Eilean Subhainn is quite a bit higher than Loch Maree so the bedrock must be reasonably impervious.

ALC
 iceicebaby 03 Jul 2008
In reply to aln:

It would have been the first of the two I said in my last post. It'd be easier to explain with a diagram but not sure that UKC has a drawing board function?! That would be good for this thread!

But yeah it is probably a slightly unusual situation. I'd explain it as follows:

The trench that holds Loch Maree is just a big valley carved out by a large glacier (several times over during successive glaciations) and the land that represents the Islands is just some rock which is for some reason more resistant to erosion (perhaps different lithology, or maybe just very well cemented). But for whatever reason, the ice has gone around it rather than completely removing it.

Then when the last ice melted and Loch Maree was left, (perhaps with a higher water level than the present) the 'islands' of resistant rock have been drowned to varying degrees. The small Lochan on the Island is just some pre-existing hollow in the land which happens to be deeper than the current Loch Level at the moment. Its probably been left full of water when Loch Maree had a higher water level and drowned the whole Island. Then when the Loch level lowered (for whatever reason) the Islands were exposed, and any hollows left full of water.. that's how that wee Lochan is there.

But you're probably right, I don't know that it is a particularly common situation. Nae sure! But the above is how I would attempt to explain it.

Hope this helps...
 iceicebaby 03 Jul 2008
In reply to a lakeland climber:

Haha I was trying to think on an example of this, and missed the most obvious one (the UK being an Island and all!!)

Durrrrrr!
 aln 03 Jul 2008
In reply to iceicebaby: That was a well rounded explanation, thanks. ALC, they aren't lakes, they're lochs.
 iceicebaby 03 Jul 2008
In reply to aln:

You're welcome. I was away to point out the Loch/Lake error there, but coupled with the essay (!) I just posted I thought better of it. I could feel a "shut it smart arse" comment coming my way!

Indeed, "Lake Maree" sounds alien!
 aln 03 Jul 2008
In reply to iceicebaby: It's pedantic I suppose. Also pisses me off when people talk about "cols" in Scotland, they're bealachs. And the spaces between the hills aren't valleys, they're glens.
 Mark Bull 03 Jul 2008
In reply to Iain Forrest:

> A different, but related, set of features is burns that branch as they flow downhill.

Good example here: http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=188440&y=867575&z=4&sv=...
Iain Forrest 04 Jul 2008
In reply to Mark Bull:
A mate of mine says that one was artificially created to divert more water over Victoria Falls for when Queen Victoria was visiting!
I don't know his source, but he's a bit of an encyclopaedia and doesn't usually make things up.
Iain Forrest 04 Jul 2008
There's a wee bit about it here, though again, no source:
http://www.scotlandsheritage.com/outdoors/walkabout_week45a/index.cfm.htm
In reply to aln:

Oops! Apologies to the Scots in the audience. I thought the smaller ones were "lochans"? Cue long and tedious etymological debate...

Actually as any fellsman knows the definitive term for such a feature is "tarn".

(Inserts kevlar and foam seat in trousers, dons fireproof suit and runs)

ALC
 Mark Bull 04 Jul 2008
In reply to Iain Forrest:

Very interesting: I hadn't heard that explanation. I don't recall it looking at all artificial on the ground.
 Martin W 04 Jul 2008
In reply to Iain Forrest: There's a more extensive discussion of it here: http://www.annegray.com/gairloch/guide/river/divided1.htm (linked from the site referenced by Toreador earlier).
Iain Forrest 04 Jul 2008
In reply to Martin W:
Well found. The 1860s Bartholomew's map clinches it, I think, though whether or not the Queen Victoria Story is true might still be debatable!

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