UKC

Would you like to see climbing in the Olympics?

Given that beach volleyball is in - not that I'm complaining - shouldn't climbing be in there?

I guess it could be a sport version. Set a few different routes and award points based on speed of completion or number of holds reached.

Any opinions?

In reply to boswelox:

i want it in

In reply to boswelox: Always said no, but changed my mind slightly. Whichever sport is in the olympics should be the pinacle of the sport, so for me tennis, football etc shouldn't be included as the world cup, wimbledon and the other grand slams are the pinnacle of the sport.

In reply to boswelox: I don't see why not. I think this has already been discussed and many people said it'd be far too boring. I disagree and think it'd be quite entertaining, especially bouldering comps. The argument that watching climbing would be like watching paint dry is a personal opinion. We all have sports we find quite dull to watch, including ones that are already at the Olympics.

In reply to boswelox: competition climbing leaves me cold

In reply to cathirst:
The argument that watching climbing would be like watching paint dry is a personal opinion. We all have sports we find quite dull to watch, including ones that are already at the Olympics.

the stands at yesterdays 10k swin were empty, 2 hours of swimmers going round and round a lake isnt a big crowd puller. I think sailing and wind surfing is a bit boring to watch too mainly cos they look slow on telly and there seems to be total chaos on the water with boats all over the place so its hard to see who is winning.

i think the main problem with non-climbers watching climbing is that elite climbers make v hard climbs look easy so the general public wouldnt know the effort and skill each move takes.

In reply to cathirst:

I'd agree with all that, so I'd like it to be include. You could have the 3 obvious classes: lead difficulty, TR-speed and bouldering. I'm sure a lot of people would be keen on watching some of those, and I don't just mean those in the climbing fraternity.

Personally I find sports like archery, boxing, some sailing etc either pretty boring to watch or just aren't to my fancy.

Climbing should at least be included as a demonstration sport in 2112 if possible.

In reply to ayuplass:


thats the same with most sports to be honest, it might inspire people to head to their local wall, where they would soon find out how hard it was.

In reply to Fraser:


in 104 years time?!

In reply to Taba: You just took my next post right off my keyboard! It might get people to the climbing wall, but i think many will decide it's far too much like hard work.

In reply to boswelox:

I'd like to see it in, either as a bouldering competition or sport climbing (or even both - there are plenty of different cycling medals to go for, for example)

There are some extremely talented sports men and women in the climbing world, and what these people are able to do is truly inspiring.

I also find climbing competitions dramatic and exciting to watch... so, yes, let's have climbing in the Olympics.

Steven

In reply to Fraser:


Well, we'll have to ask the Priests of the Temples of Syrinx...

In reply to boswelox:

I'm sure many on the competition circuit would see it as a great honour, and competitions do seem to be very popular.

I wouldn't want to see the position that they receive funding based on an expectation of results in competition though, if it led to top climbers having to focus their efforts into training for competitions and not doing any real climbing (ok - unlikely).

Even if it was in the Olympics the achievement of winning a medal in competition would pale in comparison to the real achievements of some top climbers.

In reply to Fraser:

have 'climbers' tried yet?
if riding kiddy bikes over humps got in, i don't see why climbing was not a demo sport many years ago

In reply to morphus: I don't know why BMX gets such a slagging...it takes fitness, skill and nerve to win, it's carnage - so quite exciting to watch. Who cares what size the wheels are?

In reply to boswelox: I definitely dont want to see it in, it will encourage the notion that it is 'safe' which will lead to greater participation, more polish, more crowding and the spread of fixed gear as it attracts people that (wrongly) believe the correct gear will make you safe.

In reply to boswelox: Sport climbing is a "recognised sport" well sport climbing is, though weather that means using quickdraws already on a wall or not I don't know, I'd also assume that we are talking about an artificial wall. The reason that the IOC doesn't include it is because the International federation of sport climbing doesn't have an anti-doping program.

http://www.olympic.org/uk/sports/recognized/index_uk.asp

See link.

I don't know If I want to see it in the olympics or not. To be honest I think we would see a serge in new climbers, and a lot that give up very quickly! I'm not sure that it is a bad thing though. But winning gold on a pre-bolted artificial wall is no where near as good as Trad Leading a HVS in wonderful countryside settings.

In reply to londonrocks: I think you've hit the nail on the head:

Sport climbing without weed...how would sharma cope

In reply to Alasdair Fulton: fair point about the excitment. how could climbing be made more exciting to watch, apart from speeding it up?

In reply to MattG


Yes - because everyone watching their television labours under that misapprehension and no-one currently climbing does. And we don't want greater participation in climbing now, do we? Now that you and I have enjoyed it, lets try and make sure no-one else can. Sheesh.

I'd like to see climbing in the olympics. Top climbers are fine athletes, it's more valid than many 'judged' sports and at least as interesting to watch as sailing. I can hardly think of a discipline that fits the olympic motto of "higher, faster, stronger" better than climbing. Except maybe the fast bit, but maybe they'll let the Yosemite speed freaks take part...

In reply to londonrocks:


Oh. My. God.

Are you serious? It's nowhere near as good - and that's for everyone, yes? And you've done both, yes? I'm beginning to sound like Gordon Ramsay, yes?

In reply to MattG:
It's far to asuume that it would leader to greater participation, but it's possible the only significant increase will be in use of indoor walls. After all, not everyone you plays table tennis goes on to proper tennis....

And by 2012 the monsoon seasason in the UK will last from April to Sept so the more walls that get built the better

P.S. I think you'll find there is proper drug testing at major climbing comps, though I doubt if there is any out-of-comp testing

In reply to Alasdair Fulton: wasn't Sharma tested positive at a bouldering competition
i always thought beanies were for keeping stash in

In reply to morphus: The stash goes in the huge chalk bag. In the beanies it would get wet...

In reply to boswelox:

I'm not really into this strange 'we don't want more people climbing'

Surely unless you've been at it since the 1930s you can't take the high ground. Also a sport that doesn't attract new people is doomed surely?

I'd like to see it there, looking at the likes of beach volleyball and the triathlon, which are fairly new Olympic sports it has a lot in common. Stick the girls in regulation crop tops and the guys in lycra and the Tv viewing would be hrough the roof.

In reply to Alasdair Fulton:

You just gotta be at one with the rock, man.

In reply to boswelox:

I for one would love to see it in, but the question is who would win?
i would like to think we (the UK) stand a good chance!

In reply to midgets of the world unite:


No.

Not enough swearing.

I don't really understand how testing positive for cannabis would be enough to prevent you entering...

If anything it's more of a hindrance as you've really got to want to go climbing rather than staying in to play Playstation and eat cake.
It's hardly a performance enhancing drug...

In reply to Durbs:

If it's a banned substance then you get kicked out. Pretty simple.


Relaxes you before the event, get's rid of the nerves/panic before competing.

In reply to IainRUK:

Don't most sports that are already in the Olympics already have World Championships/Cups, therefore excluding them by this logic?

In reply to slacky:

Maybe, but the Olympics is the pinnacle, the big one for lots of disciplines and sports. In football etc, it's not.

In reply to boswelox:

I would vote for climbing to be included only if it was amalgamated with shooting and archery. Paint big targets on the climbers backs and watch them go......

In reply to Durbs:
When snowboarding was first admitted, one of the medalists tested positive for canabis. He claimed it was the result of passive smoking at parties, but to many boarders it was seen as proof of why they did want antything to do with olympics and competitions.

I think the UK commentator suggested that testing boarders for canabis was a bit like testing darts players for lager

In reply to boswelox:

I'd like to cast a vote for "Syncro-Bouldering" a bit like syncro swimming but done on a large multi-tiered bouldering wall.

In reply to boswelox:

No, I'd hate it. In fact, it would be wrong on so many levels I can't be bothered to start expressing them.

jcm

In reply to boswelox:

Had the same thought myself...but got angry about seeing handball instead.....bouldering would be something to see in the Olympics. Plenty of Uk, European and World Champs for that....

Other than that we'll have to make do with angry injuries in the BMX finals..yay!!!!

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

a persuasive argument John.

I'll start from an assumption that you accept that many climbers climb for reasons which may differ from yours, and that for them participating in an olympic games would be a desirable and worthwhile exercise. I can then only conclude that you think the inclusion of climbing in the olympics would be actively harmful to the enjoyment you and others get from climbing? Could you tell my why this is so?

In reply to boswelox:
I agree with other comments about a sport should be in if olympic gold is the pinnacle of achievement - football/tennis are just really boring because everyone knows that the best players only care about the world cup/wimbledon. Half the excitement in athletics comes from knowing how much it means for the competitors to win gold.
I think indoor bouldering/sport could certainly fit in the olympics, and would probably be great fun to watch (certainly a lot of the big competitions can be very tense and exciting) but.... I suspect that the general public wouldn't feel that way. I think that you have to climb yourslef to find it as exciting as something like rowing or track events - certainly my brother thinks half the climbing videos I watch are a pile of crap. Besides, I can't imagine the climbers themselves getting so into it - training for 4 years for an indoor bouldering comp?

In reply to J.Wells:

A lot of "general public" end up watching events like the British Bouldering Championships (previously in the National Indoor Arena, Birmingham and now at Cliffhanger, Sheffield). And they seem to really enjoy it and get behind the climbers. Let's face it, it's fairly intuitive: person who gets to top in least number of tries wins.

Many top competition climbers train specifically for competitions on a yearly basis, I'm sure drawing up a 4 year plan woulnd't faze them.

In reply to boswelox: I think we are all missing another point in that if climbing was in the olympics there would be greater funding for the sport and also greater recognition.
So maybe in the future we won't be whining that the wall is busy because every man and his dog has taken up climbing after the olympics. But insted we will be making use of our state of the art brand new wall paid for by mr tax man... we can only hope

In reply to Ricky Nos:

Like hell we would.

In reply to Peter Nellist: Some of us already do.....gotta love Ratho!

Anyway, it's not the walls being busy that people are worried bout...it's the crags! If walls ever get that busy more will open.

In reply to boswelox:

Not sure, but it would certainly contribute to many people forming an impression of climbing as being elite, competitive and unobtainable.

Would fat buggers laughing uproariously on ledgy Diffs in the fresh air not be a more inclusive and wholesome picture of climbing to sell?

In reply to es: Patxi Usobiaga....no questions!

In reply to Alasdair Fulton: Maybe if this happens it will encourage existing climbers to look a little further for a GOOD climb rather than going back to the same old haunts.

In reply to Alasdair Fulton:

Although if i got him to marry me then he could claim UK citizenship...

(sorry that's for a different thread)

In reply to boswelox:

Well, maybe we should start the push for recognition now - exhibition sport for 2012!

In reply to J.Wells:
Surely alot of them train alot for comps anyway?

In reply to Chris the Tall:

Not that I'm bragging (okay i am),but my mum taught him english at school (high school) and he was shall we say, very very chilled. didn't do so well at english either. but to be fair he wasn't particularly into the academics.

as for climbing in the olympics, it would be so much more interesting than the 10,000m swimming!

In reply to boswelox:
yes i'd love to see it in the olympics
Come on GB!!!

In reply to boswelox: I think it would be fantastic if climbing was in the Olympics so long as it's not a speed climbing competition. I feel it would be a shame if climbing became about how fast you got up a route. Climbing is about enjoying your time spent on a route not racing to get to the top.

Aren't competitions usually graded on how far you get in terms of holds on sport routes and number of tries on boulder problems?

In reply to midgets of the world unite:
I can then only conclude that you think the inclusion of climbing in the olympics would be actively harmful to the enjoyment you and others get from climbing? Could you tell my why this is so?

It would also be harmful to the Olympics. The Olympics is for events whose pinnacle is the Olympics. The Olympics neither would be nor should be the pinnacle of their career for the likes of Chris Sharma.

My other objections oculd be summed as the introduction of hordes of Red-Bull-fuelled wankers to the sport, although increased commercialisation generally also comes into it. And I could think of some more if I could be bothered.

Lots of people would like to be in the Olympics. Deer-shooting used to be in it and I expect deer shooters would like their event to be reinstated. That doesn't mean it should be.

jcm

In reply to Jamie B.:

If only I thought there were the slightest truth in this it would be the best argument for its inclusion I've heard.

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

There would be plenty of competition climbers for which the Olympics would the the pinnacle of their career though. The likes of Angela Eiter et al spring to mind. Sharma hasn't done comps for ages, so he's a red(bull) herring.

Your participation argument is weak. I have enjoyed watching the 10,000m swim for example. But have limited desire to leap into the nearest stretch of opem water.

Climbing's not just about tradding up a VS, or an E5 inbetween the rain. It's moved on now. It's many things, and the Olympics could be one of them in the future.

Bring it on.

In reply to Anonymous:


Or, rephrasing your argument. 'I am not inspired by one event to take up that sport. Therefore no-one is.'

You don't say. And when was it just about those things, pray?

It's moved on now. It's many things, and the Olympics could be one of them in the future.

Fortunately I think this is unlikely, but you could be right, of course.

jcm

In reply to boswelox: I reckon there should be a bouldering comp as it's more spectacular to watch. The cameramen could also zoom in on the ridiculously small holds they're hanging off which ordinary people would find extraordinary.

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

I'm a little bit surprised at you John. You seem to think there's something intrinsically wrong with someone wishing to climb purely for the reasons of athleticsm and competition. For many of those on the current comp circuit an Olympic medal would be a deeply cherished thing.

Also, I'm not convinced by the argument that climbing would be spoilt by it's inclusion. The extra exposure would be fairly minimal and only bring people into Walls anyway, and the extra money is hardly going to be significant. The worst that can happen is climbing splits in two, but then people made that argument about comps too. That clearly hasn't happened but comps have raised the physical level of climbing enormously...

In reply to boswelox: I think the only form of climbing which shouldbe included would be alpine climbing, routes should be onsight new routes,on difficult faces, with marks awarded for speed, difficulty, line and topping out... preferably multiday. That would sort the wheat from the chaff and really show what climbing is about, not pulling on some man made resin microblock that you couldn't hurt you if you tried...

In reply to midgets of the world unite:

Why are you all assuming that holding the event at a climbing wall would be the way forward...

I know, let's drop real rowing and put all the athletes in rowing machines.

We could also drop boxing and replace it with sparring.

And we could drop the marathon and stick the whole field on a big treadmill.

etc.

Now - if it were in a sort of staggered race format (like a rally) up a big rock route (sport or trad, I'm open to both) then you may get my backing. Think Holding & Emmett on Top Gear but with more participants...

In reply to mike kann: That's being done in Russia. Plenty of controversy. Turning unspoilt virgin faces into a competition circus? What next?

In reply to mike kann:

That's more like it. It's like the marathon of climbing.

In reply to I Falafelot: And London's 2012 event will be at High Rocks...

In reply to I Falafelot:

So, you find a crag no-one has ever climbed on before, bolt it then hope for the best?

Splitting the best climbers in the world is pretty tricky. Finding a route outdoors that could do this, at a crag at which you could bring the whole media circus would be impossible imho.

Competition climbing is fine as it is. Not my thing (far too weak/sh**e) but it would be one of the highlights of many people's climbing career to win an Olympic medal (or even to just get to compete).

The Olympics are the greatest sporting event in the world, how someone can begrudge someone the opportunity to represent there country in the sport they love at that event is beyond me.

Climbing is many things to many people. Just because comp climbing isn't for you, doesn't mean it shouldn't be the choice of someone else.

In reply to Mr Lopez:

Didn't John Dunne try to do this at one point, the comp getting called off at the last minute.

In reply to galpinos:

Who said it need be bolted?


So, it'd make better watching than a climbing wall competition. In myopinion etc. and so on.


Climbing 'career'. Me no understand.


Hey - I don't want to begrudge anyone. But if they include (I think) it should be ROCK climbing and not plastic climbing.

I was suggesting a different format that might be a little more representative of our pastime and also a little more interesting to those who already participate in said pastime.

In reply to Mr Lopez:

Franco & Warbs will have freed this Whitestone Traverse by then - I think it'd make a suitably long route for the event.

In reply to Mr Lopez:

Spoilng virgins faces, in Russia? Thats nothing new...

In reply to boswelox:

Bouldering would be OK, it's just a variation on gymnastics, and is perhaps more relevant to gymnastics than waving a ribbon around.

But climbing? No.

In reply to mike kann: Sorry, the sarcasm didn't come through. (Eiger NF, Matterhorn, Dent du Geant, Cerro Torre,...) Just classic examples of faces/mountains that turned into a competition to be climbed first.

In reply to Anonymous:
>Sharma hasn't done comps for ages, so he's a red(bull) herring.

Ahem
http://climbing.com/news/hotflashes/sharma_puccio_win_slc_comp_2008/

In reply to I Falafelot:


Hmmm - Horse jumping is in an arena over made jumps, not hedges and walls. Swimming is done in pools not lakes. Javelin is done on distance, not on human sized targets. Boxing is done with gloves, in a ring with a huge set of rules.

Very few olympic sports are done in their original format - either for reasons of practicality (uniformity across the world for training purposes), watch-ability (making it an arena event) or just development.

In reply to Anonymous:

Scroll down to the Mammut Comp in Utah!

In reply to Durbs:

I don't care about javelins or horses. And I don't agree that because other sports might be dumbed down for various reasons that climbing has to be.

People can watch events in the hills too you know (mountain biking?) - it'd even get them out their armchairs.

Not sure "dumbing down" is accurate. Levels the playing field though...

Would keep environmental damage down though - otherwise crag bases would need to be set up to accomodate viewing figures.

Did part of my disertation about this, there isnt actually much of a valid reason why sports climbing isnt in the olympics, it seems that mainly it is down to the entertainment value, and also the complexity of the sport and scoring. The fact that there is a governing body, and other championships/competitions should mean that it is allowed in. It is up to the olympic comittee of the hosting country to decide what is in and what isnt (i cant see beach volleyball being held on fistral beach on a windy and rainy day!)

In reply to Reson8:

I find watching people climb at a high level (i am biased of course) and I know a few none climbers that find it entertaining to watch, especially when someone falls on lead. The fact that scoring can be difficult to understand is irrelevant. I don't understand how diving, sync. swimming or gymnastics is scored but I still enjoy watching them. The layman doesn't need to know how it works, just who is the winner.
besides all of that I don't think sport climbing would be a good oylmpic sport but bouldering and speed climbing would.

In reply to Reson8: It's up to the IOC what is in the games. The host venue or national Olympic committee have nothing to do with it.

One reason climbing isn't in the Games is because climbing as a competitive sport is still very young. The first World Cup was less than 20 years ago. It takes time to get into the Games

In reply to boswelox:This is an important and relevant debate at the moment in the BMC, get along to the next Peak Area meeting to air your views.

In reply to The Climbing Works:

How long has BMXing been competitive then?

In reply to Bill Davidson:

30 years plus.

In reply to midgets of the world unite:


It seems to me that would one of the better things which might happen.

jcm

In reply to boswelox: I don't know if this has been pointed out before, but i always found the climbing in Gladiators more exciting than licking a landmine. Maybe that sort of race scenario would work Olympically?

In reply to Duckie: i think too many people would complain with watching people climb routes, unless they did that stupid SPEED CLIMBING which i find rarther silly, i would think dynoing would be more olympic for some reason, or possibly bouldering, but i think the general public would find dynoing pretty exciting

In reply to Liam Copley:


You would need a sport with a ref close by so you could physically abuse them when they make a decision you dont like

In reply to Durbs:

I agree, i mean weed slows down your reactions so surely all sharma would be doing is giving everyone else a chance to catch up.

Sport climbing used to be part of the X Games. The speed comp was very watchable.

In reply to boswelox: I've often thought it should be in the Olympics - after all it is applied gymnastics. I've also been miffed that things like football, tennis, etc are all made up sports - not throwing, running, jumping, lifting most/furthest/quickest which are raw physical things that will not change with fashion.
I've also been annoyed that some sports get loads of events like swimming - short, medium and long. On the back, two hands together, two hands apart. You don't see 100m sprint, 100m backwards, 100m two footed jumping, 100m hoping!
But perhaps climbing needs more events to make use of more of a bespoke facility. However BMX from what I saw was basically one track for one event.

Some climbing ideas...
Leading
Bouldering
Speed
Dyno
Circular boulder and much like team pursuit in velodrome first to catch up to the other (who starts on the opposite side) wins or first to 3 laps, etc
Circular boulder... relay - one lap - tag next climber - etc
Identical walls - head to head circuits racing
Font style circuit - climber has to pick best route and climb all problems as quick as possible - penalties for any missed out.
Font style circuit - same idea but relay, each climber does 10 probs and tags for the next to go
Eventing - 5 days and individual does all/most of the events above for decathlon style points
Head to head rotating wall endurance - longest time wins

I think climbing needs to have timing in it somewhere or head to head to enable the masses to have some excitement attached. Most Olympic events have some kind of timed thing or are head to head.

Just some thoughts...

Jimbo

In reply to morphus:


Let's see here... kiddy bikes over humps... so presumably you don't want to see kiddy holds over wooden bumps?

I think speed climbing comps are atrocious and I wouldn't want to see that.

We all know the difference between plastic and rock and so would outdoor rock climbing ever get a look in?

In reply to tommyzero:

probably what lots of street BMX fans think about the Olympic BMXing. I also imagine loads of road cyclists think the velodrome isn't what their sport is about (especially the Madison!?!?!?!)and similarly for most mountain bikers or indeed Robin Hood and his merry men.

In reply to JIMBO: Although with the likes of Anne Caro in the Olympics, maybe not... she is a legend and multiple world champion of BMX and Downhill MTB...