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Guy Keating from the BMC reports:
The famous Wilton quarries in Lancashire are to be sold at public auction by their owners, United Utilities.
It now transpires that senior United Utilities staff have made the decision to sell up and the site will go under the hammer in October.
Read More: http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/older.html?month=09&year=2008#n45312
The famous Wilton quarries in Lancashire are to be sold at public auction by their owners, United Utilities.
It now transpires that senior United Utilities staff have made the decision to sell up and the site will go under the hammer in October.
Read More: http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/older.html?month=09&year=2008#n45312
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:
I'll chip in!!
No in seriousness, is there a guide price???
I'll chip in!!
No in seriousness, is there a guide price???
As an 18 year old - mostly bunking off during "Individual Study Time" from 6th Form - I cut my teeth, as a climber, at Wilton in the mid 1970s. I have very - if quite stretching - memories of the place. A route called 999 was where I grew up! It's a great place with some great routes and to lose it would be a tragedy.
I really hope there's something that can be done to save this tremendous place for future generations.
I really hope there's something that can be done to save this tremendous place for future generations.
In reply to Robin Ashcroft: me too - the Wiltons and Brownstones have most of my formative climbing memories.
I probably haven't climbed there in 20 years, but if ever there was a case for BMC financial intervention, this is it. Much more so than some of the esoteric venues that the BMC have taken on in the past, these quarries are central to the heritage and history of climbing - certainly in the North West, but of national significance as well.
I probably haven't climbed there in 20 years, but if ever there was a case for BMC financial intervention, this is it. Much more so than some of the esoteric venues that the BMC have taken on in the past, these quarries are central to the heritage and history of climbing - certainly in the North West, but of national significance as well.
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:
I rang the auctioneer.
Catalogue will be out next week. Auction is 16 Oct at Man U football ground.
Guide estimates are:
Wilton 1 £15-20k
Wilton 2 £30-40k
There are 63,000 BMC members so that's a quid each.
Got to be worth it?
Can someone set up a Paypal button?
John
I rang the auctioneer.
Catalogue will be out next week. Auction is 16 Oct at Man U football ground.
Guide estimates are:
Wilton 1 £15-20k
Wilton 2 £30-40k
There are 63,000 BMC members so that's a quid each.
Got to be worth it?
Can someone set up a Paypal button?
John
In reply to Moacs:
Wilton 2 is expected to fetch more than Wilton 1?
Does Wilton 2 in this case refer to all three quarries on that side of the road?
Wilton 2 is expected to fetch more than Wilton 1?
Does Wilton 2 in this case refer to all three quarries on that side of the road?
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:
Ace. I`ll build a house in Wilton One and put a Summerhouse on the Prow and people will have to pay me to climb. And i`ll ban climbing in Wilton 3 just becuse I like an argument.
Seriuosly I can see this type of thing becoming a big issue country wide as Utilities dispose of unwanted assets which can only be a liability to them and really make no buisness sense to keep.
Cheers Beds
Ace. I`ll build a house in Wilton One and put a Summerhouse on the Prow and people will have to pay me to climb. And i`ll ban climbing in Wilton 3 just becuse I like an argument.
Seriuosly I can see this type of thing becoming a big issue country wide as Utilities dispose of unwanted assets which can only be a liability to them and really make no buisness sense to keep.
Cheers Beds
In reply to Moacs:
There are 44,000 registered UKC users, and it purports to target 200,000 climbers and mountaineers a month. Instead of playing philosophical point scoring games about god or angels dancing on the head of a pin, this could be an opportunity for US to do something concrete.
A tenner each. fiver even. We could manage that
Surely UKC is good for something other than metaphysical willy waving?
> (In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC)
>
>
>
>
> Guide estimates are:
> Wilton 1 £15-20k
> Wilton 2 £30-40k
>
> There are 63,000 BMC members so that's a quid each.
>
> Wilton 1 £15-20k
> Wilton 2 £30-40k
>
> There are 63,000 BMC members so that's a quid each.
>
There are 44,000 registered UKC users, and it purports to target 200,000 climbers and mountaineers a month. Instead of playing philosophical point scoring games about god or angels dancing on the head of a pin, this could be an opportunity for US to do something concrete.
A tenner each. fiver even. We could manage that
Surely UKC is good for something other than metaphysical willy waving?
I suspect these are manageable sums, but the time is tight. Any campaign will need to be coordinated - the BMC is the obvious leader for this (time for some phone calls).
We also need to get the word out ASAP - so we'd need to involve the mags soonest.
We also need to get the word out ASAP - so we'd need to involve the mags soonest.
In reply to toad:
Let's be having it!
I'll chip in a tenner. (but only if I can I carve my name in some grit
Kidding.
Seriously though, some sort of BMC/UKC fund to maximise publicity?
Let's be having it!
I'll chip in a tenner. (but only if I can I carve my name in some grit
Kidding.
Seriously though, some sort of BMC/UKC fund to maximise publicity?
In reply to Queequeg: some sort of BMC/UKC fund to maximise publicity?
How about minimum publicity so the auctioneers don't ramp up the price
How about minimum publicity so the auctioneers don't ramp up the price
In reply to Robin Ashcroft:
October's mags are already out. Next mags will be out about a week before the auction. So UK websites (particularly here) need to be the main driving force.
October's mags are already out. Next mags will be out about a week before the auction. So UK websites (particularly here) need to be the main driving force.
In reply to Simon Lee:
True, but do you reckon the BMC have got that sort of money without some sort of specific fund raising? Dunno perhaps they have?
> (In reply to Queequeg) some sort of BMC/UKC fund to maximise publicity?
>
>
> How about minimum publicity so the auctioneers don't ramp up the price
>
>
> How about minimum publicity so the auctioneers don't ramp up the price
True, but do you reckon the BMC have got that sort of money without some sort of specific fund raising? Dunno perhaps they have?
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC: Have I just gone back in time?
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC: Can we have a comment from the BMC? Surely the gun club(s) would chip in as well? No point in fighting each other as that would just push up the price (and they have guns!).
In reply to Wibble Wibble:
Apparently so.
http://www.thebmc.co.uk/bmcCrag/ViewCrag.aspx?id=389
> (In reply to Jon Dittman)
>
> Yea, I thought this threat had gone away.
>
> Are the quarries on CROW land?
>
> Yea, I thought this threat had gone away.
>
> Are the quarries on CROW land?
Apparently so.
http://www.thebmc.co.uk/bmcCrag/ViewCrag.aspx?id=389
In reply to Queequeg:
How does this affect things - i.e. will there still be access, regardless of who buys them. Or isn't it that simple? I suspect the latter.
How does this affect things - i.e. will there still be access, regardless of who buys them. Or isn't it that simple? I suspect the latter.
In reply to...
Guy Keating (BMC Access Officer) is the man on the case. He'll keep his news item on the BMC site updated:
http://www.thebmc.co.uk/News.aspx?id=2751
I'd give him a shout at guy@thebmc.co.uk before starting any appeal for money etc...
Guy Keating (BMC Access Officer) is the man on the case. He'll keep his news item on the BMC site updated:
http://www.thebmc.co.uk/News.aspx?id=2751
I'd give him a shout at guy@thebmc.co.uk before starting any appeal for money etc...
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:
i'm in for a tenner (at least). come on ukc, if we show willing the Beardy Mountaineering Club will follow, right?
i'm in for a tenner (at least). come on ukc, if we show willing the Beardy Mountaineering Club will follow, right?
In reply to Simon Lee:
Well said.
As anyone who has been to area meeting recently will know, the BMC does have some spare money, and buying these quarries is a far better use for it than some of the ideas suggested, but is it as simple as that ?
Is there a risk that if we are seen to be buying up crags, then other landowners will start to put other crags on the market, and would deny access unless we buy them. How many other crags do United Utilities own ?
The guide prices quoted here seem low, but I believe they are considerably more than the BMC paid for Horseshoe ?
Having said that, Wilton was one of the first crags I climbed at, and I would very much like other climbers to have that same experience. It makes you appreciate other crags all the more !
> (In reply to Queequeg) some sort of BMC/UKC fund to maximise publicity?
>
>
> How about minimum publicity so the auctioneers don't ramp up the price
>
>
> How about minimum publicity so the auctioneers don't ramp up the price
Well said.
As anyone who has been to area meeting recently will know, the BMC does have some spare money, and buying these quarries is a far better use for it than some of the ideas suggested, but is it as simple as that ?
Is there a risk that if we are seen to be buying up crags, then other landowners will start to put other crags on the market, and would deny access unless we buy them. How many other crags do United Utilities own ?
The guide prices quoted here seem low, but I believe they are considerably more than the BMC paid for Horseshoe ?
Having said that, Wilton was one of the first crags I climbed at, and I would very much like other climbers to have that same experience. It makes you appreciate other crags all the more !
We do need to be careful about how we involve the BMC - if they were seen to be buying/coordinating the purchase of a quarry then it would set a precedent that other landowners could (almost certainly) seek to exploit. And we could then have lots of other quarries/climbing venues coming under threat - which would be counter productive.
Perhaps a better role for the BMC is to be "shaming" United Utilities over the sale - for a relatively modest return - of a valauble community resource. I guess this is what they did last year, but there should be more mileage if they re-apply pressure and ramp up through a PR campaign. The local/national press would pick up if presented in the right way. The quarries do tick many political boxes - an opportunity for positive, physical activity close by some socially deprived areas (apologies to Bolton and the North West.
Perhaps a better role for the BMC is to be "shaming" United Utilities over the sale - for a relatively modest return - of a valauble community resource. I guess this is what they did last year, but there should be more mileage if they re-apply pressure and ramp up through a PR campaign. The local/national press would pick up if presented in the right way. The quarries do tick many political boxes - an opportunity for positive, physical activity close by some socially deprived areas (apologies to Bolton and the North West.
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:
Perhaps make this a premier post in a large font with a link to BMC paypal button, I'll donate.
One of the things that struck me about the Wiltons is that Wilton 1 is huge, with big tracts that are green or overgrown. Wilton 4 is small and compact, but still over grown. Those poor souls in London would kill to have such great grit and we don't climb on lots of it.
Perhaps make this a premier post in a large font with a link to BMC paypal button, I'll donate.
One of the things that struck me about the Wiltons is that Wilton 1 is huge, with big tracts that are green or overgrown. Wilton 4 is small and compact, but still over grown. Those poor souls in London would kill to have such great grit and we don't climb on lots of it.
In reply to Simon Lee:
No, private deal with Tarmac, orginally brokered (I believe) by Sir Bonners over lunch
No, private deal with Tarmac, orginally brokered (I believe) by Sir Bonners over lunch
In reply to Chris the Tall:
Longridge was sorted in a similar way. An auction presents a diffrent range of tricky issues I would think.
Longridge was sorted in a similar way. An auction presents a diffrent range of tricky issues I would think.
In reply to...
Guy has updated his news item and is advising caution before money is pledged, read more at:
http://www.thebmc.co.uk/News.aspx?id=2751
Guy has updated his news item and is advising caution before money is pledged, read more at:
http://www.thebmc.co.uk/News.aspx?id=2751
In reply to Chris the Tall: Some interesting questions. From what I understand, there has been an inquiry for planning permission although we don't know what this was. In our favour are the fact that it is on CrOW land, bats roost there and if any planning application were to go into the process, there would be significant opposition from the climbing lobby. Surely these things would be pretty duanting to any would be developer?
In reply to dread-i:
Me and a couple of mates cleaned and climbed most of the routes on Cocktail walls last year, although you're right in saying that W4 isn't climbed on very much. However all the other wiltons are very well used, even W2 since the clean up last year - IT would be a real shame to lose this to a non-climber friendly landowner or worse, a developer.
I'd be willing to part with cash too, if that was what it needed
> (In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC)
> Perhaps make this a premier post in a large font with a link to BMC paypal button, I'll donate.
>
> One of the things that struck me about the Wiltons is that Wilton 1 is huge, with big tracts that are green or overgrown. Wilton 4 is small and compact, but still over grown. Those poor souls in London would kill to have such great grit and we don't climb on lots of it.
> Perhaps make this a premier post in a large font with a link to BMC paypal button, I'll donate.
>
> One of the things that struck me about the Wiltons is that Wilton 1 is huge, with big tracts that are green or overgrown. Wilton 4 is small and compact, but still over grown. Those poor souls in London would kill to have such great grit and we don't climb on lots of it.
Me and a couple of mates cleaned and climbed most of the routes on Cocktail walls last year, although you're right in saying that W4 isn't climbed on very much. However all the other wiltons are very well used, even W2 since the clean up last year - IT would be a real shame to lose this to a non-climber friendly landowner or worse, a developer.
I'd be willing to part with cash too, if that was what it needed
I'd now concur with this - pledges/donations will play into UU/auctioneer's hands
In reply to Moacs:
Is Wilton 3 up for auction?
> (In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC)
>
> Guide estimates are:
> Wilton 1 £15-20k
> Wilton 2 £30-40k
>
>
> Guide estimates are:
> Wilton 1 £15-20k
> Wilton 2 £30-40k
>
Is Wilton 3 up for auction?
In reply to PDL: If it's the same as last year, all of them are for sale, split into 2 lots, Wilton 1, and then the rest. See this information from last year http://www.pugh-company.co.uk/auctions/lot.x?a=20071018&l=018
In reply to rginns:
Rick is Brownstones included? I hope not, or I will have to re mortgage the house and buy it myself!!!
Rick is Brownstones included? I hope not, or I will have to re mortgage the house and buy it myself!!!
In reply to PDL:
Someone on theses forums did offer to buy Wilton last year.
Not sure if the BMC took him seriously.
Someone on theses forums did offer to buy Wilton last year.
Not sure if the BMC took him seriously.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: Was he serious?
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:
Anyone know what the site is allocated for in the Statutory Development Plan eg green belt, open land, site of biological interest etc? It's difficult to tell from Bolton Council's Planning web-site. I would imagine that only open uses would be allowed eg agriculture or certain kinds of leisure. There would probably be restrictions on any buildings too. And probably on highway access, car parking etc. Come to think of it, the best use would be as a country park/nature reserve for the people of Bolton and climbing playground for me and my mates!
Seriously, though, I am a chartered town planner and if anyone's got any background I'll look into it. I might even shove a few roubles in the kitty.
Anyone know what the site is allocated for in the Statutory Development Plan eg green belt, open land, site of biological interest etc? It's difficult to tell from Bolton Council's Planning web-site. I would imagine that only open uses would be allowed eg agriculture or certain kinds of leisure. There would probably be restrictions on any buildings too. And probably on highway access, car parking etc. Come to think of it, the best use would be as a country park/nature reserve for the people of Bolton and climbing playground for me and my mates!
Seriously, though, I am a chartered town planner and if anyone's got any background I'll look into it. I might even shove a few roubles in the kitty.
In reply to Pekkie:
When this was raised previously, one concern was that the shootists may attempt to outbid the climbers
There is no question that the BMC should manage this affair, any intervention by enthusiastic amateurs, or worse the British Sport Climbing Association is sure to queer the pitch
When this was raised previously, one concern was that the shootists may attempt to outbid the climbers
There is no question that the BMC should manage this affair, any intervention by enthusiastic amateurs, or worse the British Sport Climbing Association is sure to queer the pitch
In reply to Kevin Stephens not logged in: I'm all for paying my bit. Who's the cheque to.
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:
How about nobody pledges their money and the site goes to a non climbing person/company, hopefully for as low an amount as possible.
Climbers would still have access as it is CRoW land.
"as long as the planning authority do not grant permission for development. If this occurred, the site would be 'excepted land' and lose its CRoW designation. Bad news all round."
If an application for development is made then UKC and the BMC could be used to campaign against the development.
If this application fails (which hopefully should happen with the whole UK climbing community against it) or doesn't occur then the motivation for the sale/development of other crags across the country will be removed
How about nobody pledges their money and the site goes to a non climbing person/company, hopefully for as low an amount as possible.
Climbers would still have access as it is CRoW land.
"as long as the planning authority do not grant permission for development. If this occurred, the site would be 'excepted land' and lose its CRoW designation. Bad news all round."
If an application for development is made then UKC and the BMC could be used to campaign against the development.
If this application fails (which hopefully should happen with the whole UK climbing community against it) or doesn't occur then the motivation for the sale/development of other crags across the country will be removed
In reply to devilfire:
No one should bid. They are worthless in real terms. This is just a stunt to get mugs to pay up for reasonably worthless land, as per Snowdon etc. You can't build on them, charge admission, do much with them so who would buy them? gooey eyed mugs, that's all! I seem to remember daft famous Welshmen coughing up loads to line the pockets of previous owner of Snowdon - how they must have laughed at getting rid of a huge area of worhtless rough ground for (was it?) £10M!!!!!!!!!
No one should bid. They are worthless in real terms. This is just a stunt to get mugs to pay up for reasonably worthless land, as per Snowdon etc. You can't build on them, charge admission, do much with them so who would buy them? gooey eyed mugs, that's all! I seem to remember daft famous Welshmen coughing up loads to line the pockets of previous owner of Snowdon - how they must have laughed at getting rid of a huge area of worhtless rough ground for (was it?) £10M!!!!!!!!!
In reply to Kevin Stephens not logged in:
Thinking on it, you are quite right, Kevin, best to keep a low profile, not pledge cash and let the BMC handle this. I could take exception to the 'enthusiastic amateurs' bit, seeing as this is how I make my living..but,hey. Think I'll just find exactly what the 'planning constraints' are, though - just for my own peace of mind.
> >
> There is no question that the BMC should manage this affair, any intervention by enthusiastic amateurs, or worse the British Sport Climbing Association is sure to queer the pitch
> There is no question that the BMC should manage this affair, any intervention by enthusiastic amateurs, or worse the British Sport Climbing Association is sure to queer the pitch
Thinking on it, you are quite right, Kevin, best to keep a low profile, not pledge cash and let the BMC handle this. I could take exception to the 'enthusiastic amateurs' bit, seeing as this is how I make my living..but,hey. Think I'll just find exactly what the 'planning constraints' are, though - just for my own peace of mind.
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC: we are 200000 (I gather), what percentage of us are United Utilities customers? A campaign based on persuading all concerned to move over to their competitors might have some leverage. Whatever the tack or just a donation, I'm in
P
P
In reply to Paul Atkinson:
I am a UU customer, and you have a very good point. May be UU should be pursueded to give the quarries to the BMC for free of charge. If enough of us on here lobby UU.
If only 10% of 200,000 are UU customer that equates to 20,000 per year multiplied by your annual bill, 20,000 x £500 = £10k a year UU will lose if the quarries are not given free of charge to the BMC.
> (In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC) we are 200000 (I gather), what percentage of us are United Utilities customers? A campaign based on persuading all concerned to move over to their competitors might have some leverage. Whatever the tack or just a donation, I'm in
>
> P
>
> P
I am a UU customer, and you have a very good point. May be UU should be pursueded to give the quarries to the BMC for free of charge. If enough of us on here lobby UU.
If only 10% of 200,000 are UU customer that equates to 20,000 per year multiplied by your annual bill, 20,000 x £500 = £10k a year UU will lose if the quarries are not given free of charge to the BMC.
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:
Save your money until they decide they want rid of Pex Hill!
A much more valuable piece of climbing history.
They'll never stop me climbing there no matter if it turns to Vixen Tor. And if they try and fill it in I'll be in there with a shovel.
Save your money until they decide they want rid of Pex Hill!
A much more valuable piece of climbing history.
They'll never stop me climbing there no matter if it turns to Vixen Tor. And if they try and fill it in I'll be in there with a shovel.
In reply to Slatehead:
> >
> Save your money until they decide they want rid of Pex Hill!
> A much more valuable piece of climbing history.
>
> Well I live 10 minutes from Pex Hill and I happily drive for an hour to get to Wilton. Pex is OK but Wilton's much more important.
> Save your money until they decide they want rid of Pex Hill!
> A much more valuable piece of climbing history.
>
> Well I live 10 minutes from Pex Hill and I happily drive for an hour to get to Wilton. Pex is OK but Wilton's much more important.
In reply to Slatehead:
Why has Pex Hill never been developed - like other quarries in Merseyside such as Woolton (housing) and Whiston (landfill to public open space replacing some nearby developed for housing)? The answer is that it is in the Green Belt and has poor highway access. In fact you could argue that a quarry with such planning constraints is not an asset but a liability(need to fence etc) and that it has a negative value. Other sites elsewhere have been passed to the local authority for nothing plus a legacy sum to pay for ongoing maintenance.
> > Save your money until they decide they want rid of Pex Hill!
>Why has Pex Hill never been developed - like other quarries in Merseyside such as Woolton (housing) and Whiston (landfill to public open space replacing some nearby developed for housing)? The answer is that it is in the Green Belt and has poor highway access. In fact you could argue that a quarry with such planning constraints is not an asset but a liability(need to fence etc) and that it has a negative value. Other sites elsewhere have been passed to the local authority for nothing plus a legacy sum to pay for ongoing maintenance.
In reply to PDL: UU are water and electric. And I thought they are primarily water. I thought you couldn't change your water supplier - if so the the threat of changing supplier is a bit meaningless !!
The threat of changing electric supplier is much more meaningful but how many people on here are supplied by UU. I am not.
The threat of changing electric supplier is much more meaningful but how many people on here are supplied by UU. I am not.
In reply to PDL:
Have I missed something in your calculation?
Chris
>
> If only 10% of 200,000 are UU customer that equates to 20,000 per year multiplied by your annual bill, 20,000 x £500 = £10k a year UU will lose if the quarries are not given free of charge to the BMC.
> If only 10% of 200,000 are UU customer that equates to 20,000 per year multiplied by your annual bill, 20,000 x £500 = £10k a year UU will lose if the quarries are not given free of charge to the BMC.
Have I missed something in your calculation?
Chris
In reply to Chris Craggs:
Thanks Chris, 20,000 x £500 = £10m per year. Now thats far more scary.
> (In reply to PDL)
> [...]
>
> Have I missed something in your calculation?
>
>
> Chris
> [...]
>
> Have I missed something in your calculation?
>
>
> Chris
Thanks Chris, 20,000 x £500 = £10m per year. Now thats far more scary.
In reply to The Climbing Works:
I wasn't sure so I did some investigation and you can actually change supplier see here http://www.uswitch.com/Water/W_Supply.aspx?i=1
So what we now need is for the BMC to lobby UU and ask for the quarries for free OR we as a climbing community will switch water supplier at an approx cost to UU of £10m per year.
> (In reply to PDL) UU are water and electric. And I thought they are primarily water. I thought you couldn't change your water supplier - if so the the threat of changing supplier is a bit meaningless !!
>
> The threat of changing electric supplier is much more meaningful but how many people on here are supplied by UU. I am not.
>
> The threat of changing electric supplier is much more meaningful but how many people on here are supplied by UU. I am not.
I wasn't sure so I did some investigation and you can actually change supplier see here http://www.uswitch.com/Water/W_Supply.aspx?i=1
So what we now need is for the BMC to lobby UU and ask for the quarries for free OR we as a climbing community will switch water supplier at an approx cost to UU of £10m per year.
In reply to PDL: Good research. The NW has a big climbing community and I bet the majority never changed from North West Water (which I think transformed into UU). So the potential for a meaningful boycott is there. I might change from Yorks Water to UU just so I can threaten to change back
In reply to The Climbing Works:
I have just emailed the BMC and LCCC, if any of us are in climbing clubs can we email our club please? £15k for W1 is peanuts we want them passed to the BMC for FREE and Pex, Egerton, Anglezarke etc.
I have just emailed the BMC and LCCC, if any of us are in climbing clubs can we email our club please? £15k for W1 is peanuts we want them passed to the BMC for FREE and Pex, Egerton, Anglezarke etc.
In reply to andyhodges:
> (In reply to devilfire)
> No one should bid. They are worthless in real terms. This is just a stunt to get mugs to pay up for reasonably worthless land, as per Snowdon etc. You can't build on them, charge admission, do much with them so who would buy them? gooey eyed mugs, that's all! I seem to remember daft famous Welshmen coughing up loads to line the pockets of previous owner of Snowdon - how they must have laughed at getting rid of a huge area of worhtless rough ground for (was it?) £10M!!!!!!!!!
agreed> No one should bid. They are worthless in real terms. This is just a stunt to get mugs to pay up for reasonably worthless land, as per Snowdon etc. You can't build on them, charge admission, do much with them so who would buy them? gooey eyed mugs, that's all! I seem to remember daft famous Welshmen coughing up loads to line the pockets of previous owner of Snowdon - how they must have laughed at getting rid of a huge area of worhtless rough ground for (was it?) £10M!!!!!!!!!
In reply to lewk_c: no, it's on 13th October.
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:
the giude price is just a guide. no one may wnat to buy them.
offer them a tenner.
the giude price is just a guide. no one may wnat to buy them.
offer them a tenner.
In reply to rginns: This is this years lot.
http://www.pugh-company.co.uk/auctions/list.x?a=20081016&v=manchester
http://www.pugh-company.co.uk/auctions/list.x?a=20081016&v=manchester
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC: My Brother was in climbing in Wilton 2 on wednesday and got speaking to member of the gun club, he seemed to know of an interested buyer who is looking to set the quarries up for off road biking ( I assume some kind of motocross ) and shooting and climbing will still be allowed but under permit and restrictions, please take this at face value though as it is hearsay but my bro seemed to think the guy seemed genuine.
In reply to PDL:
Only organisations that use more than 50 megalitres of water a year can change their supplier. Nobody uses that much in their house, even if you leave the taps running when you brush your teeth and other naughty wasteful things. So unfortunately, there is no potential for boycotting UU's water supply.
More info on water competition here if you are interested
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/ofwat-calls-for-water-indus...
Only organisations that use more than 50 megalitres of water a year can change their supplier. Nobody uses that much in their house, even if you leave the taps running when you brush your teeth and other naughty wasteful things. So unfortunately, there is no potential for boycotting UU's water supply.
More info on water competition here if you are interested
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/ofwat-calls-for-water-indus...
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Did they?!
Does anyone have any update from the BMC's discussions with UU?
Phil
> (In reply to PDL)
>
> Someone on theses forums did offer to buy Wilton last year.
>
> Someone on theses forums did offer to buy Wilton last year.
Did they?!
Does anyone have any update from the BMC's discussions with UU?
Phil
The quarries are now both up on the actuion catalogs for otc 16th
http://www.roypugh.co.uk/auctions/list.x?a=20081016&v=manchester
Lots, 008 and 009.
Seems to be pretty much the same info they had on last time they were up for sale. I think the best we can hope for is if either a climber friendly person buys them, or they end up not sold which I reckon is a fair possibility.
http://www.roypugh.co.uk/auctions/list.x?a=20081016&v=manchester
Lots, 008 and 009.
Seems to be pretty much the same info they had on last time they were up for sale. I think the best we can hope for is if either a climber friendly person buys them, or they end up not sold which I reckon is a fair possibility.
In reply to Lord_ash2000:
I note the 'informal agreement with the BMC for use of this site' on the particulars. Given the location and the need for development of brownfield sites in Bolton itself, I'd be surprised if anyone got planning permission for anything in this location.
I note the 'informal agreement with the BMC for use of this site' on the particulars. Given the location and the need for development of brownfield sites in Bolton itself, I'd be surprised if anyone got planning permission for anything in this location.
In reply to Wibble Wibble: does any one have any updates
In reply to all:
Of all the pictures that I have seen of Wilton, I cant think of a less inspiring picture depicting the climbing there than the one one the UKC News headlines.
Cheers, Loz
Of all the pictures that I have seen of Wilton, I cant think of a less inspiring picture depicting the climbing there than the one one the UKC News headlines.
Cheers, Loz
In reply to Christopher Smith: That's from last year.
In reply to Papillon:
Oops sorry. Thought it sounded too good to be true.
So no news about the current sale yet then?
Oops sorry. Thought it sounded too good to be true.
So no news about the current sale yet then?
just to let you know that the information previously posted is correct, i am interested in purchasing the quarries and finding a way to keep the climbing and gun clubs running in one of the quarries. We feel that as a local business it is our duty to find a balance that allows all outdoor activities to co-exist. I spoke Guy from BMC earlier today regarding this matter and he has my number, as does the gun club. I feel it is only right to discuss these plans openly so that all parties are aware of our intentions should we purchase the quarries. Obviously there will be some changes that will effect the timings that different groups can access the facilities in order to ensure no group is excluded. Please let other users/groups/forums know of our intentions and we would be glad to hear everyone's points of view on the matter.
In reply to wilton:
We're all ears.....
> I feel it is only right to discuss these plans openly so that all parties are aware of our intentions should we purchase the quarries.
We're all ears.....
we are only interested in lot 008 and any plans should be discussed with relavent bodies/clubs in private so that we are all protected ..
So, it looks to me that this is Wilton 2, 3 and 4?
http://www.pugh-company.co.uk/auctions/lot.x?a=20081016&l=008&v=man...
I'd be perturbed not to be able to climb in 3 any more in particular.
http://www.pugh-company.co.uk/auctions/lot.x?a=20081016&l=008&v=man...
I'd be perturbed not to be able to climb in 3 any more in particular.
In reply to wilton:
The Quarry known as Wilton 3, which lies on plot 008 is perhaps the most novice friendly of all of the Wilton Quarries - and one of the best 'low grade' venues in the district. Access is already restricted by agreement with the Gun Club. Any further restriction due to development or change of ownership would not be widely appreciated within the climbing community -- and that's putting it very politely.
Alan
The Quarry known as Wilton 3, which lies on plot 008 is perhaps the most novice friendly of all of the Wilton Quarries - and one of the best 'low grade' venues in the district. Access is already restricted by agreement with the Gun Club. Any further restriction due to development or change of ownership would not be widely appreciated within the climbing community -- and that's putting it very politely.
Alan
Hi Alan
As you can appreciate the sale is going ahead but if someone else buys the quarries other than us,the situation may cause further restrictions. We have noted that Wilton 3 is the prime one used by the climbers so will be takan into consideration. Please also understand that UU is selling due to the quarries not being viable.Anyone buying the quarries will have to consider this as a business and not a charity.On rare occasions everyone benifits with a little give and take...hope this can be the case.
As you can appreciate the sale is going ahead but if someone else buys the quarries other than us,the situation may cause further restrictions. We have noted that Wilton 3 is the prime one used by the climbers so will be takan into consideration. Please also understand that UU is selling due to the quarries not being viable.Anyone buying the quarries will have to consider this as a business and not a charity.On rare occasions everyone benifits with a little give and take...hope this can be the case.
In reply to wilton:
"other than us"? Who's "us"?
And what about 1, 2 and 4?
Why? You may have business ideas but that doesn't exclude any philanthropic motives of others.
Sounds like you have a business idea and would like to take rather than to give. Perhaps you could answer the email I sent you.
Phil
> Hi Alan
> As you can appreciate the sale is going ahead but if someone else buys the quarries other than us,the situation may cause further restrictions.
> As you can appreciate the sale is going ahead but if someone else buys the quarries other than us,the situation may cause further restrictions.
"other than us"? Who's "us"?
> We have noted that Wilton 3 is the prime one used by the climbers so will be takan into consideration.
And what about 1, 2 and 4?
> Anyone buying the quarries will have to consider this as a business and not a charity.
Why? You may have business ideas but that doesn't exclude any philanthropic motives of others.
> On rare occasions everyone benifits with a little give and take...hope this can be the case.
Sounds like you have a business idea and would like to take rather than to give. Perhaps you could answer the email I sent you.
Phil
I spoke briefly to Guy Keating at the BMC yesterday and to be quite honest wasn't filled with any kind of confidence at all.
Guy told me that basically everything was confidential and couldn't be discussed.
I then contacted the person posting on this thread as 'wilton' and had a good discussion with him and trying to understand his plans which, if I take him at face value are certainly workable and would offer a solution for Wilton 2 & 3 and I suspect 4 in that climbing would remain available in some way and that in at least one of the main quarries the environment could be improved.
Some other research has suggested that there is at least one other business venture being considered that would use probably Wilton 3 and would most likely leave W2 for climbers and gun clubs.
The chap I spoke to yesterday seemed to have extremely well formulated plans and although we is not a climber or a gun club member he has a valid use for the quarries and will respect the wishes of climbers. The funny thing was though that I got the distinct impression from the BMC that although he had approached them to discuss the situation, they had no intention of following up with him.
Now, I am sorry to fan the flames here, but I have seen the BMC's access negotiations in the Lancashire area for over 25 years and I personally think that each and every one of them has been a disaster and that we have lost access to some fantastic locations - Stanworth, White Scar and Hoghton amongst others.
In my humble opinion the BMC thought they were close to United Utilities and they have been publicly proved wrong again and even when they are approached with a rescue package they don't want to discuss and are happy to plough their own furrow and that can't be right can it?
I would like to know more from the BMC right now about what their view of the stuation is and a clear statement of what their intentions are, because unless this is thrashed out amongst the interested parties then come auction day (if it gets that far and I suspect it will) then there will be multiple bidders all purporting to have similar interests all bidding against each other, driving the hammer price up and up.
I have climbed in the Wilton quarries since the very early eighties and these are nationally important climbing locations (you may scoff, but they truly are) and their future needs to be guaranteed.
So far I haven't found any parties interested in Wilton One, which surprises me - does anyone know any different?
All the best
Concerned of Croydon
Guy told me that basically everything was confidential and couldn't be discussed.
I then contacted the person posting on this thread as 'wilton' and had a good discussion with him and trying to understand his plans which, if I take him at face value are certainly workable and would offer a solution for Wilton 2 & 3 and I suspect 4 in that climbing would remain available in some way and that in at least one of the main quarries the environment could be improved.
Some other research has suggested that there is at least one other business venture being considered that would use probably Wilton 3 and would most likely leave W2 for climbers and gun clubs.
The chap I spoke to yesterday seemed to have extremely well formulated plans and although we is not a climber or a gun club member he has a valid use for the quarries and will respect the wishes of climbers. The funny thing was though that I got the distinct impression from the BMC that although he had approached them to discuss the situation, they had no intention of following up with him.
Now, I am sorry to fan the flames here, but I have seen the BMC's access negotiations in the Lancashire area for over 25 years and I personally think that each and every one of them has been a disaster and that we have lost access to some fantastic locations - Stanworth, White Scar and Hoghton amongst others.
In my humble opinion the BMC thought they were close to United Utilities and they have been publicly proved wrong again and even when they are approached with a rescue package they don't want to discuss and are happy to plough their own furrow and that can't be right can it?
I would like to know more from the BMC right now about what their view of the stuation is and a clear statement of what their intentions are, because unless this is thrashed out amongst the interested parties then come auction day (if it gets that far and I suspect it will) then there will be multiple bidders all purporting to have similar interests all bidding against each other, driving the hammer price up and up.
I have climbed in the Wilton quarries since the very early eighties and these are nationally important climbing locations (you may scoff, but they truly are) and their future needs to be guaranteed.
So far I haven't found any parties interested in Wilton One, which surprises me - does anyone know any different?
All the best
Concerned of Croydon
In reply to phil kelly:
Phil
I've just tried calling you on the mobile number I've been given ( 07967 00339, which is unobtainable) and a wk number (given to me by Les) which just keeps ringing.
I have been dealing with this over the last week or and the situation has been changing fairly quickly. Given that we are in commercial public auction situation - I'm not able to give details of our discussions with UU on a public forum. I can however say that we believe climbing access to Wilton 2,3 & 4 is now secured, and that yesterday UU rejected a BMC offer for Wilton 1. We are now looking at what to do next. Clearly - the priority one way or the other is to safeguard access to Wilton 1 for climbers.
Phil - please give me a call at the BMC office - I'd be happy to discuss this further.
Dave
Phil
I've just tried calling you on the mobile number I've been given ( 07967 00339, which is unobtainable) and a wk number (given to me by Les) which just keeps ringing.
I have been dealing with this over the last week or and the situation has been changing fairly quickly. Given that we are in commercial public auction situation - I'm not able to give details of our discussions with UU on a public forum. I can however say that we believe climbing access to Wilton 2,3 & 4 is now secured, and that yesterday UU rejected a BMC offer for Wilton 1. We are now looking at what to do next. Clearly - the priority one way or the other is to safeguard access to Wilton 1 for climbers.
Phil - please give me a call at the BMC office - I'd be happy to discuss this further.
Dave
In reply to Dave Turnbull, BMC:
>
Excellent work!
> (In reply to phil kelly)
I can however say that we believe climbing access to Wilton 2,3 & 4 is now secured>
Excellent work!
In reply to Adam Lincoln: In my view we need to do something to raise awareness of how important the Wilton quarries are to climbing. Could we not organise a large meet there for individuals and also clubs from the area. I think the quarries filled with climbers will certainly show what they mean to us. Preferably before the auction date!.
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC: The auction catalogue has an addendum that both lots for Wilton have been withdrawn
I wish to formally introduce myself as i feel its appropriate I am an interested party in the purchase of the aforementioned site @ Wilton
I own a large shooting club in lancs , We have been in talks with UU Ltd and Bolton council for some time regarding the use of this site and i fully intend to purchase said site , With the intention of opening a 3 day a week shooting club to include weekends and bank holidays , In principle this has been agreed and additionally speculatively! we have purchased further adjoining land , This leaves the remainder of the week for use in other activity's
So i pose the question would you indicate the amount of use the quarry get from the climbing Fraternity and would you be prepared to pay for access if facility's are made available for you ??
We will try and work with you for continued access but there may be some hurdles to climb (no pun intended )
Tony Carl Walker
Walkers construction
I own a large shooting club in lancs , We have been in talks with UU Ltd and Bolton council for some time regarding the use of this site and i fully intend to purchase said site , With the intention of opening a 3 day a week shooting club to include weekends and bank holidays , In principle this has been agreed and additionally speculatively! we have purchased further adjoining land , This leaves the remainder of the week for use in other activity's
So i pose the question would you indicate the amount of use the quarry get from the climbing Fraternity and would you be prepared to pay for access if facility's are made available for you ??
We will try and work with you for continued access but there may be some hurdles to climb (no pun intended )
Tony Carl Walker
Walkers construction
In reply to Tony Carl Walker:
Thanks for that.
Climbers - this needs a bump as it rather goes against Dave's reassuring statement above.
But, however it goes, I think we should thank Tony for his openness.
John
Thanks for that.
Climbers - this needs a bump as it rather goes against Dave's reassuring statement above.
But, however it goes, I think we should thank Tony for his openness.
John
In reply to Tony Carl Walker:
Not on your life.
How does the CROW legislation affect this, I wonder?
> ...would you be prepared to pay for access if facility's are made available for you ??
Not on your life.
How does the CROW legislation affect this, I wonder?
In reply to cathsullivan:
Well it's comments like that that might make people like Tony just say sod the climbers we'll have it for shooters 24-7.
The Ent
> (In reply to Tony Carl Walker)
> [...]
>
> Not on your life.
>
> [...]
>
> Not on your life.
>
Well it's comments like that that might make people like Tony just say sod the climbers we'll have it for shooters 24-7.
The Ent
In reply to Enty:
Why? He asked whether I'd be willing to pay to climb there and I'm giving him an honest, polite answer that also (I hope) conveys the strength of my feeling on the matter. If Tony (or anyone else) chooses to buy Wilton 3 and ban climbers from climbing there (assuming that he can legally do this) then I won't like it but won't pay to climb there in order to avoid it happening.
> (In reply to cathsullivan)
> [...]
>
>
> Well it's comments like that that might make people like Tony just say sod the climbers we'll have it for shooters 24-7.
>
> The Ent
> [...]
>
>
> Well it's comments like that that might make people like Tony just say sod the climbers we'll have it for shooters 24-7.
>
> The Ent
Why? He asked whether I'd be willing to pay to climb there and I'm giving him an honest, polite answer that also (I hope) conveys the strength of my feeling on the matter. If Tony (or anyone else) chooses to buy Wilton 3 and ban climbers from climbing there (assuming that he can legally do this) then I won't like it but won't pay to climb there in order to avoid it happening.
In reply to cathsullivan:
You mean like cutting your nose off to spite your face?
I like your definition of polite by the way.
The Ent
You mean like cutting your nose off to spite your face?
I like your definition of polite by the way.
The Ent
In reply to Adam Lincoln:
I might have to take that back.
> (In reply to Dave Turnbull, BMC)
> [...]
> I can however say that we believe climbing access to Wilton 2,3 & 4 is now secured
> [...]
>
> Excellent work!
> [...]
> I can however say that we believe climbing access to Wilton 2,3 & 4 is now secured
> [...]
>
> Excellent work!
I might have to take that back.
In reply to Tony Carl Walker: In reply to Tony Carl Walker: Hi Tony, can you give us a link to your company's website? I searched for Walkers Construction and the only similar sounding company is Walker Construction based in Folkestone- is that you? Also, which large shooting club in Lancashire do you own? Does it have a website?
If you have no web presence, perhaps you could provide us with an address or phone number so that anyone who is interested in contacting you with regard to climbing at Wilton (e.g. the BMC) can do so directly rather than through an internet forum?
Anita
If you have no web presence, perhaps you could provide us with an address or phone number so that anyone who is interested in contacting you with regard to climbing at Wilton (e.g. the BMC) can do so directly rather than through an internet forum?
Anita
In reply to Tony Carl Walker: Tony, with respect, climbing should be free. I'd say that if you were to do that and give free access and was smart about it you could get plenty of free advertising in the papers for your shooting club.
In reply to robdan:
That sounds like a better approach.
However, I really can't see how anyone who buys a place with their own cash, puts facilities there, maybe like toilets etc will then say "right - gun club £5 a day on Thursday Saturday and Sunday, Climbers free for the rest of the week" Ha ha!
The Ent
> (In reply to Tony Carl Walker) Tony, with respect, climbing should be free. I'd say that if you were to do that and give free access and was smart about it you could get plenty of free advertising in the papers for your shooting club.
That sounds like a better approach.
However, I really can't see how anyone who buys a place with their own cash, puts facilities there, maybe like toilets etc will then say "right - gun club £5 a day on Thursday Saturday and Sunday, Climbers free for the rest of the week" Ha ha!
The Ent
In reply to Enty:
You mean like they did on Kinder before the Mass trespasses?
> (In reply to cathsullivan)
> [...]
>
>
> Well it's comments like that that might make people like Tony just say sod the climbers we'll have it for shooters 24-7.
> [...]
>
>
> Well it's comments like that that might make people like Tony just say sod the climbers we'll have it for shooters 24-7.
You mean like they did on Kinder before the Mass trespasses?
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