UKC

Anyone got any suggestions for a first E1 attempt in the Peaks (East)? I can climb pretty well (a solid 6b/c indoors), but just haven't done much trad. Really would like to get an E1 nailed before the year is out though if we have a spot of dry weather!

Btw, I don't do routes with those 'heart flutter' symbols next to them!

In reply to Sian:

even if they're the easiest?

In reply to Sian: when you say you haven't done much trad, how little have you done?

How is your lead head when you are outdoors?

In reply to Anonymous: Yup! Although I think this is rarely the case! I'm just too chicken...

In reply to lynda: I've done a fair bit of 'easy' stuff, probably less than 10 VS's, and just the one HVS (leading, this is).

My leading head is OK if the climbing is going well & I know I've got some bomber gear in from a fairly comfortable stance.

In reply to Sian:

Left Unconquerable - very good gear and bags of it.

In reply to Sian:

The Vice - Stanage End. No heart flutter symbol there. enjoy!

In reply to GrahamD: If you can hang on to place it! I wouldn't recommend it as first E1. I'd do a few more HVSs if I were you Sian, 11 trad routes at VS and hvs isn't that much.

In reply to Sian: If you are fairly tall have a crack at Mississipi Variant Direct.

In reply to 1234None:

You really are a very cruel man.

PS have you done it cleanly?

In reply to Sian:

Limestone might sit you better in a transition from indoors, something like Bicycle Repair Man at Staden? Get as much mileage in first as you can on similar but easier climbs.

In reply to Offwidth:
He did ask for one with no flutter symbol. The gear is bomber.


Errrmmmmm...ahhhemmmm... Once again - the gear is bomber - I've tested it a few times

In reply to Offwidth:

ps - just got your mail re B.E. Direct. Cheers for that.

In reply to Offwidth:

I did just read the Rockfax description & decided to avoid that one!!

I may seem like I'm being a bit impatient with trying to bag an E1 already. I'm certainly not averse to some more HVS's (any recommendations there too? The one I did was Knight's Move at Burbage). I just thought I'd get some E1 recommendations in case I'm "feeling it" next time I head up!

In reply to Sian:

Milsom's Minion was one of my first E1s, it's pretty straightforward. Quite cruxy if I remembers rightly.

In reply to Sian: If you want a short (but pumpy E1) with good gear then Strapiombante is a good bet at Froggatt, it's one of those routes that you can almost see exactly where the gear is and what position you'll be in to place it. Plus if you fall off the last move (crux) you don't deck which is always a benefit (I did fall off on my 1st attempt) this is of course assuming that the gear you have put in is good??? but thats down to you.

Another good E1 is long tall sally at Burbage north. Again I fell off this on the 1st attempt ( I see a pattern here) but the gear is right below you during the crux and you are in a good position to place it. The top section is a bit run out but you can (because I did) get gear towards the top. Again a lot depends on how good you are at placing gear.

I Recently did Evening wall at Burbage north which felt similar to Strapiombante (didn't fall off this one) but it felt more intimidating and run out.

The long and the short of it is that there are a lot of really good E1's out there; some of which will suit you and some of which wont. I think the best thing to do is to get a recommendation from someone you know that knows the way you climb and then go with them to do the climb. It can be of great pyschological benifit to have someone there that has done the route so that if you do start to flap they can tell you where the next hold is/next piece of gear etc, (if you want to know) thats what I did.
My 1st E1 was Long tall sally which is probably not the easiest E1 in the world but does seem to be a lot of peoples 1st E1. I wasn't told exactly what gear I needed but the 2 usual placements were pointed out to me (its obvious though) and I actually got another 2 pieces above that and it was one of these that caught my fall.

In reply to Sian:

Sorry but Knights Move is VS really. The easiest safish E1 I know on the eastern grit is probably Greenacres at Curbar (also due a downgrade) protectable bouldery 5b into easyish 5a slab with spaced runners (should and will soon be HVS 5b). Knights Move to easy grit E1 is a similar distance to say middling grit HS to Knights Move.

In reply to AMo:

Milsom's Minion is pretty bold, though, in places. I remember the gear isn't too good lower down.

To the OP: I would agree with Gareth, I reckon getting a few more HVSs under your belt would be advisable before getting too set on E1. HVS itself is quite a nasty grade, there being quite a big difference between soft HVS and hard HVS.

Easy E1 probably much easier than hard HVS, but the easy ones tend to be the bold ones.

Would recommend you something, but all my E1s in the peak have been easyish but bold. Namenlos is good, and I suspect not actually dangerous, though you stand to take quite a big fall if you lose it on the ramp.

In reply to Sian:
Not easy but good is Safety Net at the Roaches skyline. Hard boulder start to good gear then a nice rest while you contemplate the smeary arête. Confidence and a few delicate moves will bring you to good gear. The final push over the bulge is reasonably protected.

In reply to Offwidth:
I would give Knights move HVS, albeit low in the grade. Mind you I have led some VS's that wouldn't have been out of place as HVS, the Vixen at Newstones springs to mind. Fine if you like pain and jamming.

Strapiombante
Three Pebble Slab
Long Tall Sally
The Left Unconquorable
Embankment 3
Millsom's Minion
Namenlos
Safety Net
Nuke the Midges
Mississippi Variant Direct
Kirkus's Corner
Easter Rib

In reply to Sian:

We'll start by correcting your first mistake...

It's 'The PEAK' not Peaks...

As for a route...

If you really are climbing an honest and 'Solid 6b/c indoors' then Kelly's Overhang at the High Neb area of Stanage is safe and straightforward, and shouldn't present you with much trouble.

Neither would Long Tall Sally at Burbage North, Strapiombante at Froggatt, L'Horla at Curbar or The Tippler at Stanage.

All are safe but fairly sustained at the grade.

However, I, as with many of the other posters, would suggest that you get a bit more experience under your belt before wanting to rush into E1.

It is just a number after all and doesn't really get you much in life.

And as Offwidth said, Knights Move really is only VS...

Luv Barra! xx

In reply to blindedbyscience:

Then you'd be wrong too...

Maybe in Moons past, when pro was less adequate...

But these days things should be more susceptible to grade drop than creep, what with the advances technology has made to our sport...

Luv Barra! xx

In reply to blindedbyscience:

So do 96 out of 156 voters on UKC and 31 further think its mid-band at that. Even someone supporting a just into the HVS grade position must recognise a degree of wishful thinking in such a voting distribution. However, being very close to some of the guidebook production and having climbed widely and in volume on grit and being familiar with the new slightly tightened grades in BMC and Rockfax IMHO it should for consitency sake be around the upper quartile mark for VS (and 5a) in current money; on the Moors or on The Staffs side it would always have been VS (compare it to their harder VS classics and easier HVS lines).

In reply to Offwidth:

I thought about Bicycle Repair Man as well, but for someone not used to placeing gear its not so trivial (small wires, spaced in places, wandering line).

In reply to Offwidth:

.... whilst I agree with you here (the HVS to the right seemed harder/scarier to me) a chap was displaying himself in my local paper just last week, having fallen off at the top. He is pictured with his foot in plaster holding what looked like a Friend 5 - why would people want the (smalltown) world to know of his failure!?

And why does someone with experience of one easy HVS (can you have an easy hard VS?) want to jump onto an E1 already (and in the Peaks too ? I don't understand what's going on!

In reply to Offwidth:


Listen to this man, he speaketh the truth.

In reply to Sian:

So your only HVS lead is Knights Move? You shld be warned that it's easier than a fair few VS's i've done (Second/first sister, Valkyrie at the roaches etc etc etc).

If i was you i'd get some serious mileage at HVS first: stuff like Croton Oil, Meringue, Tody's Wall, Agony Crack, Tower Face and so on for starters...

In reply to Sian:

On the lime I could recommend Brutus at Dovedale - well protected, off-vertical, steady and near the bottom of the grade - it's also worth more than the 1 star it gets. Pocket symphony at Beeston's another possibility that has a bit of an indoorsy feel to the climbing, though it is fairly pumpy. Bicycle repair man is good but the gear is a bit spaced and it's solid 5b...

On the grit there's Millsom's minion as suggested (just a couple of bold moves) or how about Saliva at Stanage popular.

In reply to Barra:


That is a fair point. I climbed it with a bunch of hexs and a handful of cams. I dare say you could get a fair bit more in now.

In reply to Sian:

If you can cruise Right Unconquerable, including the topout, without feeling too worried, then you should be about ready for E1.

Come to think of it, if you can do that you should be OK for about E3 at least ...

CJ.

In reply to Offwidth:
Even someone supporting a just into the HVS grade position must recognise a degree of wishful thinking in such a voting distribution. However, being very close to some of the guidebook production and having climbed widely and in volume on grit and being familiar with the new slightly tightened grades in BMC and Rockfax IMHO it should for consitency sake be around the upper quartile mark for VS (and 5a)

Hell I'll go with the majority. But it seems to me that there is a continuing down grading of routes so really there are no real soft touch HVS's for anyone breaking into the grade. This can be a good thing, after all there is no point in giving a route a higher grade if it doesn't warrant it. But I know when I was starting out I was quite happy to have a few confidence boosters. I trust that Trafalgar wall will be returning to its previous VDiff status as it is hardly VS as in the Chatsworth Guide.

So just out of interest what constitutes VS, HVS, E1 these days? I always went by the rule of thumb that VS 5a meant low or very well protected 5a move, HVS 4c easy but bold, HVS 5a several reasonably protected 5a moves, HVS 5b hard but well protected moves, E1 5a bold with several 5a moves, E1 5b harder but with more reasonable protection (or low crux and bold).

In reply to 1234None: I think "he" might be a lass.

In reply to Anonymous:


if only. i cruised RU but giber on anything resembling hard e1. at the end of the day ru is an easy jug fest. it's just so many climbers are weak...

In reply to blindedbyscience:

It's a bit contrary to complain about "continuous downgrading of routes" when every man and his dog is complaining about grade creep and has the guidebook analysis to prove it.

There are plenty of soft touch HVSs, just look at the recent 'First HVS' thread.

And to suggest that grading has fundamentally changed is also rather random.

Just where is the 5a move on Knights Move? I didn't notice any, and the gear was good all the way up (except for the first few metres, which are fairly easy anyway).

In reply to Sian:

Do a few more VS, 3 or 4 HVS then just get on one you like the look of, one that has runners you can see, moves you can visualise and you'll have no problem at all.

Repeating routes others found easy is pointless... for every two people saying X is easy there's another saying it's desperate... that's just the way it works.

If you like steep juggy wall-like routes... pick one. If you like slabs... yeah, you guessed it, pick one

Good luck, hope you enjoy the process
jk

In reply to Barra:

i don't think 6b/6c indoors is even half the story. outside if you do not have good technique & a strong mind a sustained e1 will quickly destroy your strength reserves. i know plenty of 6b/6c indoor climbers that are only good vs outdoor climbers

In reply to victim of mathematics:
I have never complained about grade creep honest!

Yes but they are getting fewer.

I haven't said that grading has fundamentally changed, I was just trying to establish criteria.

5a up the flake, then another 5a to reach the break above before it eases. well protected though. If you found it easy then it is obviously a style of climbing to which you are particularly well suited. One man's 5a is anothers 4c. In the end it is all rather arbitrary anyway. All I am saying is that it felt 5a to me, which is based on 20 years climbing experience from VDiff to E2 on all types of rock (this is not to suggest any one-up-manship merely to point out that I haven't just launched straight off the indoor walls). Is it HVS? Well I would say borderline. I take Barra's point that modern protection renders previously bold routes safer, and a HVS leader would not find KM a problem. Well protected at 5a could make it top end VS

In reply to blindedbyscience:
Is it HVS? Well I would say borderline. I take Barra's point that modern protection renders previously bold routes safer, and a HVS leader would not find KM a problem. Well protected at 5a could make it top end VS

yes it is. all these people going on about it being vs are simply not competent enough to comment.

In reply to Anonymous:


i don't want to get on my high horse but it's the same as the fools that grade 3 pebble & sunset slab the same.

In reply to Anonymous:

You could be right, it's nearer to HS to be fair..

In reply to Sian:

Not meaning to sound negative, but if you have done less than a dozen VS leads and Knights move (may only be VS in some people's books, but I think worth a soft HVS) are you sure you are ready for an E1?

On a more positive note, I climbed my first E1 before I had done an HVS, but I was bouldering loads on grit at the time so knew the style.

As for good safe E1s... err.... probably Strapiombante at Froggatt. It's not easy by any means, but the gear is good or Safety Net at the Roaches.

Just make sure you can place gear well and can boulder V1 on grit with relative ease and it should be ok.

In reply to Sian:

Don't rush past HVS, there's so much to enjoy without the self-expectation that comes if you think that you're an "E1 leader".

In reply to Anonymous:

Err...

They don't...

Sunset Slab is HVS 4C.

Bold as brass 4C climbing, fairly easy, but no gear to speak of that will adequately protect from a ground fall.

3PS is HVS 5A.

Well protected at the crux, which is quite tricky, leading to easy but bold moves on the slab above.

In reply to Anonymous:

Err...

So you know how many routes Offwidth and myself have lead on grit?

You are quailified to comment?

Yet you hide behind anonimity!

I would suggest that between OW and myself there are over 2000 leads/solos on grit...

I would offer that as qualification enough?

Luv Barra! xx

In reply to Barra:

Ah, but what have you ever done on Micah Schist ?

In reply to Offwidth:

Presumably Short Slab will soon be VS then?

Also what runners are there past a decent friend 4 in the large pocket near the start for GA?

Finaly, I always thought the hardest bit on GA was further up the slab, rather than getting on to it which I think relatively straight forward!

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Indeed, I am a "she" climber!

As usual, this has turned into a bit of a grading argument (not surprising) & I don't deny that Knights Move seemed to be a fairly easy HVS (tho obviously having nothing to compare it to). Also, not being a bloke & therefore having some macho thing to prove (just waiting for someone to rise to that bait!), I'm not asking this question with the intent of rushing straight out onto E1 & then never going back. I know myself well enough to not be foolhardy & dive onto something I don't feel happy with. I just don't have enough knowledge of the Peak (no 's' this time - happy!?) to be able to think, "Oh, I'm climbing really strong today, lets see if I can't push an E1 - suchandsuch would be a nice one to do."

I'm very grateful for everyone's advice, and understand you're being responsible by perhaps trying to calm down gung-ho climbers that'll just wind up doing themselves an unnecessary injury, but perhaps I'm not quite so naive as I made myself out to be. I just wanted some people's suggestions which I could then look at & judge for myself, rather than a whole debate as to whether I should be doing it in the first place! And hey, the weather will probably be so rubbish over the next couple of months that it'll be next summer before I get out again & then I'll be getting scared on Severe's all over again!!

In reply to Sian:

When I was slightly negative before, my thoughts were that I would rather succeed on my 1st E1 than fail, so some consolidation is always good. However, if you have the skills and strength then there are some good suggestions above. Beware though... some of the routes won't suit everyone. E.g. Nuke the Midges, thought by some to be very soft touch at E1 but thought by me to be exhausting and fairly scary - I am simply not tall enough to hang the holds at the same time as putting my feet on the footledge. My taller mate thought it was a doddle, butI got pumped stupid.

Work to your strengths too, if you liek short and powerful then some of the more well protected routes are good (Strapiombante, Safety Net, The Knack (Burbage S) etc) but if you prefer longer slabbier routes, you start losing a bit of gear, but they are generally safe (e.g Long Tall Sally, Easter Rib, etc.)

In reply to Sian:

Eastern Peak? Go south-west and you could do Yew Tree wall in Dovedale - something a bit different to the grit fare on offer here.

In reply to Sian: My first peak E1 was limestone - Aplomb, Plum Buttress, Chee Dale - great if you're happy with multi-pitch, have a steady/competent partner and enjoy mind-boggling exposure (with plenty of gear). Take prussics though, just in case...

In reply to ripper:

Nice one. Mine was Sirplum - same applies!

In reply to Barra:
>

Ah go on I'll bite
I acknowledge your experience, but personally I would give TPS E1 for the simple reason that I find the upper moves hard (not dead hard you understand but 5a hard). The first time I did it as my fourth or fifth E grade I was expecting a walk over, up to the hole and the committing move onto the slab. No problem, then...nothing no gear, no holds except slopey friction smears. I was bricking it but still made the top. Went back and did it some years later and although more confident I still reckon those moves to be 5a or at least hard 4c. I do not know of any other HVS 5a with such a run out in a potentially serious situation. Similar situation to Billiard Butress but with more chance of decking. I found Sunset Slab a lot easier and right for the grade.

I find it interesting that of all "sports" ours is the most subjective. If you run 300 mtrs in x number of seconds that is a fact, you either did it or you didn't. If you throw a javelin 500 mtrs it is there sticking in the ground to tell you so. But climbing grades are a lot more dependant upon the individual. How tall they are, or short, experience, nerve, technique, etc. I have padded up Moyer's Buttress slab and found it a doddle, while others have sailed through the bits I thought hardest and then fallen off! I have slid out of "impossible" jamming cracks only to have someone else stroll up it like a walk in the park. So someone who climbs at, say 8a, would find it difficult to differentiate between grades 4c-5b (they all being a blur of easiness), While to someone who on a good day leads to severe would see no distinction between 6c-7a (all impossible). I have often found that HVS routes on crags with a majority of easy climbs (Windgather) or significantly easier than HVS routes of the same grade on crags with a predominance of hard routes (Curbar) which I think reflects the expectations of the people who climb there.

Is TPS HVS or E1? I'll compromise and go for E0

In reply to blindedbyscience:


Quite VS 5a should feel cruxy. i.e. 1 or 2 well protected moves with good runners in front of your face and with the rest of the climbing decidedly easier if you are struggling to pin point the crux because of all the hard 4c moves around it then its pushing into HVS.

In reply to Sian:

Louie Groove at Ramshaw...didn't lead, just seconded, but it's only one 5b move. A little heart fluttery, perhaps, but a really nice, short climb.

In reply to Sian: Bollocks to all this. Go and do 'The Crease' at Bamford. Softest E1 on the planet and no gear to place so you don't need to worry if your trad is a bit rusty eh!

In reply to Sian:
my first E1 was Green Acres at Curbar Edge it is on the UKC Logbook. i enjoyed it not pumpy but a bit more technical (i thought)

In reply to blindedbyscience:
If you throw a javelin 500 mtrs ...

If I threw a javelin 500m I'd join the circus!

I think E1 for TPS too. As you say, very subjective.

To the OP. Great Buttress at Derwent Edge/Dovestone Tor is a great route. Steep and pumpy, but with obvious juggy climbing and plenty of gear (just don't stop to place too much!). Some guidebooks only give this HVS though. Morrison's Redoubt at Stanage Popular is anothet good E1, though quite soft at the grade, being about HVS after the 1st move.

In reply to Removed User:

'The Crease' at Bamford. Softest E1 on the planet and no gear to place

IIRC, there is gear, a small cam or two and perhaps a nut - though not above half-height.

lsn

In reply to lowersharpnose: indeed but it is hardly worth the effort since the bottom is a breeze and the crux the last move.

In reply to sarah79:

No way is that a remotely sensible suggestion, especially given the OP's criteria.

Mind you the same could be said for quite a lot of other suggestions on this thread. Curiously though I find myself stumped for a good suggestion myself. I remember finding Gullible's Travels and Morrison's Redoubt both very suitable for this purpose a few hundred years ago, but I don't recall what the gear was like.

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

The OP's criteria seemed a little thin to begin with, at least in their initial post

In reply to Sian:

Great Peter - Lawrencefield.

The Ent

In reply to Sian:

here's some ideas.

Bilberry Cake at Burbage North
upgraded to E1 5a in Burbage Millstone and Beyond (i think its HVS in rockfax). Felt more like VS.

The Crease at Bamford
Steady and slabby but not much gear

Mitch Pitch at Stanage Plantation
Bouldery and unprotected but OK.

that's all I can recommend coz there the only E1's I've done

In reply to popebenedictus:

Why do people insiste on suggesting technically easy and therefore underprotected routes as good first E1s ? the OP is not lacking strength, just outdoor experience. Therefore I would say that any E1 with good, obvious and plentiful gear would be a much better choice.

In reply to sarah79:

Well she did say no fluttering. I thought Louie Groove was bloody scary. Although they do say a chipped runner placement has appeared since my ascent.

jcm

In reply to Sian:

The Penultimate, Burbage nth. I soloed this a while ago and it seemed pretty straight forward and appeared to have good gear after a tricky start. A nice climb. Check out Long Tall Sally whilst you're there, that was my first E1. Also windjammer, worthy of at least one star.

In reply to Sian: On the limestone, how about Tut's Anomalous at Wildcat, its solid E1 5b.

In reply to madmats:

The gear is pretty shite on the Penultimate. It is a nice route though.

In reply to Bulls Crack: ah, then you missed out on that wild traverse around the nose, just above the big roof - the most amazing position

In reply to Barra:

Sorry to dissapoint but I've done well over 2000 leads or solos on grit myself (that's ignoring multiple ascents ie I'm counting any route just once). What's more I've climbed with hundreds of beginers and a multitude of other partners including some of the most experienced climbers around. I count myself very lucky in this respect great experineces, mainly on great rock (with some green slime thrown in) with loads of good people

For the record for (Mr tongue-in-cheek) anonymouse I think Sunset slab is between half and a quarter up the HVS band (and 4b) and 3PS just E1 5a by the righthand padding finish and top end HVS 5a by the cop-out leftwards finish.

Someone asked about Short Slab ...my view is bottom end HVS 5a. Someone else Trafagar Wall ...top end S 4b with a bold finish unless you are short when the finish is very bold and VS 4b.

This isn't about silly sandbagging people on bold routes to make a stand against grade creep, its about a best attempt at fair and consistent grading across the board, whilst enjoying my favorite rock.

In reply to GrahamD:

Indeed.. I am happy to climb a fairly hard route as long as I feel that I have some decent protection in in case I come off. I have seconded plenty of Extreme climbs usually without any problems, so I know my ability is there, it's just a whole different (head) ball game when you're leading it.

As for my criteria being 'a little thin' (Sarah79), what else do you want to know!? I'm 5ft10 with a good ape index(!) so reach isn't too much of a problem. I'd say I was fairly strong, but I am "a girl" so it's all relative. I'd say I have reasonable technique (i.e. don't just thrutch my way up everything). I'm not all that great at jamming. I don't like traversing much as I usually feel very precarious & get stressed about what to do with the ropes. I quite like technical slabby stuff, but then I suspect these tend to have less protection, or at least of a more 'flimsy' nature.

Hopefully that added detail helps some....

In reply to Sian: shrike?

In reply to GrahamD:
Why do people insiste on suggesting technically easy and therefore underprotected routes as good first E1s ? the OP is not lacking strength, just outdoor experience. Therefore I would say that any E1 with good, obvious and plentiful gear would be a much better choice.

Far better to fall of a well protected, technically difficult E1 than fanny arround and complete a low technical grade E1 thats basically a hiball problem

In reply to auld al:
Not really in the 'Peaks', as per the original request.

Left Unconquerable or Strapiobante are probably good options for grit - and Frogatt is probably a safer banker than Stanage conditions wise at this time of year.

In reply to Sian:

Earlier in the thread 'bycle repair man' was suggested at staden (quarried Lime) There are 2 lines next too each other at Staden called Sunai and The Nails (E1 and HVS respectively and both about 5B) maybe these would suit you as you could do the HVS and see how that feels before doing the E1 which is fairly similar. They both have good gear and both have a run out at the top.

In reply to SGD:

Neither of these routes is the same sort of climbing as Bicycle Repair Man, though. BRM is nice and steady BUT involves crucial small runners, some run out bits and a meandering line. If you are at Staden and feeling strong, Liquid Courage might be a better bet - more good gear than you can wave a stick at !

In reply to Offwidth:
>

Hear Hear!

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

A chipped runner placement? Hmm don't like the sound of that. When I did it I too found it very scary. I found the final groove unprotected and polished! Making it seem very sketchy with the ever present prospect of bouncing badly onto the ledge below (and then off it). A runner in the groove would make it more HVS 5b in my view.

In reply to blindedbyscience:
I seconded Louie Groove recently after deciding I didn't fancy it as my first E1 because it looked too easy (I couldn't work out where the 5b bit was so I assumed it was the top out).
Nice and easy for 5b but the top would have felt a bit touch and go on lead. Unless the chipped gear placement is very new then I certainly didn't spot it.

In reply to Reach>Talent:
Didn't do it because it looked too easy come on

It is easy up to the top groove, which is the crux. I found the now polished top section quite sketchy, bridgeable but with nothing positive to pull on you are relying on keeping the pressure right for a few moves unless you are very tall. A different kettle of fish with the rope below you. You wouldn't hit the ground but you would hit something sharp and hard. I don't really rate it myself as it feels more like a hanging boulder problem than a route, a bit inconsistant. There are plenty better first E1's around

In reply to Sian: Strapiombante, Froggatt edge... short and sweet, quite steep.

In reply to Sian: Yo a really nice short E1 is at Ramshaw maybe a bit out the way for you but well worth it! the climb is Louie's Groove -E1 5b. Really nice, short fun route, at the crux its quite foot worky but real sense of achievement once you top out. really only 1 place for a bomber cam near the start but technically not that hard. Hope this helps.

In reply to Sian: Ok Ive only done 3 E1s and still look for the 'soft touch' ones so I'll tell you what I found.

Long Tall Sally (Burbage) - My first one and probably the hardest. The gear after the crux is hard to place on almost non-existent footholds so I ended up skipping it and running it out to the top which was scary to say the least. Great climb but probably not such a good intro to the grade (why do so many people end up on this as their first?)

Kirkus Corner (stanage popular) - Hard but enjoyable moves past the only decent gear puts you on a ledge with a fairly simple slab above you but the prospect of a very nasty fall if you mess it up.

Billingsgate (Millstone) - my favorite one so far. thin technical climbing but on very good gear (providing you have two or three no.1 nuts and a very small cam) not very long, probably one of the shortest routes at millstone but very enjoyable if you like the odd two finger crimp.

And maybe after that try...
Crossover E2 5c(Stanage Plantation) - make sure you have rigged it up so the belayer can run back if you fall from the crux and go for it. (quite scary)

BUT I do agree with most of the others on here that a few more HVS would stand you in good stead. Not least because there are HVS climbs much harder than any of the above. A few to choose from -

Flying Buttress Direct (stanage popular) - Absolute must do climb, brilliant hard but well protected crux (once you work out how to place the gear)

Great North Road (millstone) - it just keeps coming with committing, hard moves but on good gear

Lyon's Corner House and Direct variation (millstone) - Both great climbs on good gear with sustained interest.

The Sloth (The Roaches) - I still havent had a chance to try this but my god it looks imposing.


Good luck!

In reply to rock gobbler: I made the mistake of feeling jumped up after climbing the Knights Move, and going straight on to Long Tall Sally as my first E1 and I slipped off and decked!

In reply to Clee: The start is a bit goey. I think it is a bit easier if you are tall cos you can get the runners in high above you...

In reply to Removed User: Guess so, but would not advise anyone to make this their first E1.

In reply to Clee: I tend to agree, and not one for a hot sunny day, that corner is a right suntrap!

In reply to 1234None: The Vice !!!! Evil, thats just plain evil. Get some distance up some pleasant HVS routes like;

Chequers Crack - Froggatt
Suicide Wall - Cratcliff
Agony Crack - Stanage


There are some real soft touch routes about but you're only fooling yourself.

Moyers Buttress is great at E1, the gear is there when it really matters. When its not, tell yourself you're on VS ground and pull yourself together. Proper E1, will never be down graded and you'll be apround as punch when you top out.

In reply to Sian: I've just done my first E1 - Better late than never at Rivelin Edge yesterday thinking it was VS 4c - the climb on the left. I've only realised it must be something harder when the second couldn’t follow up. There is a slight run out on thin slaby holds at 5a but over all it felt ok. I've looked it up in guide on here and many agree it is soft touch for E1

In reply to Jim Walton:

You shld probably add Nonsuch to that list

In reply to Sian:

Well.....

btw - did Millsom's minion and namenlos at the weekend and they were my first grit E1s...

Both are easy and felt easier than a lot of HVS' i've done! Anyway, Namenlos is ripe for a downgrade so i wouldn't bother with it if you're only doing it for the E1 tick. I'd definitely get on it if you want to tick off a really good HVS though..

Millsom's minion i felt was much fairer for E1, run out and not a path to the break then good gear but a difficult move (especially if you're not tall). Bonafide 3 star route and it wont get downgraded...

In reply to Sian:


Sian, sorry to be blunt but your prioroites seem to be all wrong in just chasing a grade rather than improving your climbing

Stanage has loads of super quality HVS climbs, you should work through these enjoying the wide range of climbing styles and technique and CONSOLIDATE your ability, they you will be able to enjoy a rewarding move to E1, E2, E3 etc. If I had to recommend an E1 to meet your criteria it would be Left Unconqurable, with its jugs, plentiful gear and excellent climbing - however you will enjoy it far more and have more chance of success with a base of HVS climbing.

Good luck amd have fun