UKC

Morning all, anybody any idea what the winter climbing conditions are like in the lakes? ie is viking butress in?
(working in sheffield at minute, perfect gritstone weather, its baltic!)

In reply to ntb: It was 10 degrees at valley level yesterday:

http://www.lortonweather.co.uk/1weekgraphs.htm

So nothing remotely in condition at the moment.

However, if these forecasts are right:

http://www.mwis.org.uk/mountain/LD.PDF
www.snow-forecast.com/resorts/Raise/6day/top

then it's looking encouraging for next week for mixed or possibly ice routes.

In reply to ntb: If we get some snow I'm toying with the idea of going to have a look at something rocky, high and north facing on Sunday as it will have been freezing above 750m for about 48 hours by then and the turf may not have totally thawed out from earlier in the week. HEALTH WARNING, I suspect I wont get a lot done, but you never know.

In reply to ntb:

I was about to post something similar. Does anyone who is in the lakes now think it is worth packing crampons/ice axe for the weekend? I wasn't going to bother as it looks like just a dusting.

In reply to Monk:
I wouldn't say its worth the journey. If you are lakes based, you might find something or you may waste a day looking

In reply to ntb: cheers for that, i ll probably hold out till next weekend then to break my new crampons in then, looks like stanage is looking like a good bet for tomorrow then

In reply to 3leggeddog:

Looking is never a wasted day!!!

In reply to ntb:
Thought you stated you were 'working' in Sheffield. Peak forecast suggest it might start quite damp, not sure whether Yorkshire is looking any more promising?

In reply to ntb: I was working in sheffield, but i live up in darwen, yep yorkshire is looking better for tomorrow. think i might pay earl crag a visit

In reply to ntb: Just got down from Helvellyn. From the tarn it looks in great nick but majority of the turf underneath is not frozen and its just sugary snow, nothing consolidated. Maybe in a few days things will improve if you climb at night. Going to head to a different location tommorow where there might not be as much snow to cover the turf!!! Stunning day though with a temperature inversion. It was like Oxford Street on the top with tons of people out enjoying the sunshine.

Adam

In reply to adamsky: How much snow is around on helvellyn? Any ice starting to form?

In reply to Will Smith:

There was on Monday, less so now (today). As regards how much snow, I'll upload pics later, I got an alpine start.

In reply to ntb:
Fair bit of snow on top, but what there is, is unconsolidated. Ice starting to form, but nothing significant yet. Hopefully by the end of the week we'll match the continental ice-falls

In reply to ntb:

Why not take your new crampons to Stanage, that should well and truly break them?

In reply to All: I'm working this weekend, so no good to me, but has anybody checked out Scrubby crag?

In reply to ntb:
I was out on the Gables today. There was perhaps around an inch or two of powder snow, and very little ice. The turf was frozen in parts, but they were few and far between. I just had a walk, but a team of two were on Gable Crag. The snow was unconsolidated everywhere, so what conditions they were climbing on I don't know. I wore a T-shirt all day as, even though it was sub-zero, there was no wind and plenty of sun. There was a temperature inversion around the Duddon and Windermere. I wouldn't think conditions will be in for climbing tomorrow. Perhaps the team rock climbing on Buckstone How, as seen from Grey Knotts, had the best idea, although it was a great day for a walk.

In reply to Removed User:

We did Pinnacle ridge early this afternoon, turf was mostly frozen, deffinatly in condition and had a great time.

There was two people doing Engineering Slabs, my friend Chris spoke with them and they said it was easyier last time they did it, and there was water running down the top pitch.

There was routes to be had on Gable today though!

In reply to p3t3:
I'm surprised to hear there was water running down the top pitch, as there was was no thaw on the summit snow, and everywhere in shadow remained frozen. Good on them for going for it.
I've submitted some photos from today, so hopefully they'll be accepted, as it may help a few people decide on what to do tomorrow.

In reply to p3t3:

Sounds good, how much snow was on pinnacle Ridge?

In reply to Exile:

A couple of inches not consolidated though, worth a trip up

If you find my belay plate, half way up the second to last pitch... can i have it back?

:P

In reply to p3t3:

Just uploaded a load of pics from this morning: http://www.ukclimbing.com/photos/author.html?id=454

In reply to p3t3:

Thanks for that

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:


What was the turf like on Helvellyn?

Got Monday off work and was thinking of popping up for the day.

In reply to Simon22:

largely un-frozen.

Anyone been out in the lakes today? Especially interested in what gable, great end or scrubby/hart crag were looking like. Any water ice starting to form anywhere?

In reply to ntb:
Had a wander up Scafell Pike today. Went via Custs? gully on Great End which was more of a scramble than a climb. Very little snow in the gullys and the turf wasn't frozen. Seen a few guys scratching about to the left of central gully but it wasn't really in any sort of condition to be fair. We need a lot more snow before we get any decent conditions on Great End. Great day to be out though!!!

In reply to ntb: On Wetherlam today, glorious. -4 degrees at Tilberthwaite when I left and -2 when I got back. Out of the sun the snow was squeaky and my gloves stuck to my axe but all the streams were running freely. Went up the grade 2 scramble on Great Carrs Buttress which was good fun clearing the powder to find the holds, with a nice sharp bit at the top. Turf was frozen in a few places but not climbable, I think thesnow has insulated the ground.
The most ice I saw was on the descent on the E ridge of Wetherlam, the path was quite tricky.
There seems to be a bit more snow on Coniston than further north.

In reply to adamsky:

Spent 3 days in the gable, great end scafell area. Saw 3 groups walk up to - and straight out of Great End this morning.

Lots of powder + not much else. Temps in the valleys have been much lower than on the tops.

In reply to ntb: Went up to Great End today, had intended to go to Great Gable but a car had skidded of the road up to Honister pass on sheet ice and a police car was blocking the road.
It was freezing hard down to the valley bottom and remained so all day, plenty of ice around and well frozen turf. Unfortunately, higher up, the few inches of snow seems to have insulated the turf so on the crag it was unfrozen. There was also remarkably little ice in any of the gully lines given how much there was on the path! The snow is very dry and powdery so of no use at all to climb.
As mentioned above, one party climbed the buttress between SE gully and Central but it probably wasn't truly 'in' though can obviously be done in any conditions. We ended up doing Custs which was a wet verglassed scramble, crampons were useful but only used the axe to hook over the odd rock hold, still, it was a great day to be out. Probably the best sport to be had would have been rock climbing on Gimmer which was basking in sun all day.

The best chance of any winter sport over the next few days would be on routes relying on frozen turf which have no snow cover, probably therefore at lower altitudes below the snow line. Some watercourses may also freeze up if it stays cold for as along as is currently forecast. Sourmilk Gill had quite a bit of ice on it today, with 3 or 4 more days of hard frosts we might have some icefall action to go at, fingers crossed!

In reply to p3t3:

I've got your belay plate, let me know where to send it.

Did Pinnacle ridge on Gable today, 70% of turf frozen, a really good day out. From a distance Pisgah Buttress on Scafell looked white enough for routes as did bits of Pillar.

In reply to Exile:
Yes, they all looked in condition, but in reality it is just powder snow, which isn't the conditions for winter climbing, unless brushing snow off handholds counts.

In reply to Removed User: That was us on Cleopatra. Bit damp but generally warm in the sun. Today went to Goats Crag in Watendlath which again was warm. Got 3 routes done.

In reply to Exile:

Cheers

I've sent you an email.

In reply to Exile:

Yes some of the mixed routes on Pisgah where 'in' yesterday. The turf was brick hard all over the crag and there was plenty of powder to give it a good winter feel! Ice was forming too. We did moss gill, another party did what looked like Pisgah Butress Direct.

Anyone lucky enough not to be working get up there and make the most of it!

In reply to ntb:

Handy website for up to min weather conditions in the valleys...

http://www.keswickweather.co.uk

In reply to ntb: did viking buttress yesterday, definately worth going out, final pitch felt the crux in current conditions, turf is frozen enough to be climbable, and its only going to get better over the next few days.

anyone checked out Blea water icefalls? i reckon if this cold weather persists it could be in the next few days?

cheers

Anyone been out today?

In reply to Monk: Yes, crampons are recommended for Helvellyn..see Sharp Edge discussion. Paths around the back of Saddleback this morning (Mon) were solid ice. The snow covering is negligible - more nuisance value - but with crampons on board exposed and steep slopes with ice sheets feel a lot less hairy.

In reply to Henry Iddon:

May i suggest that this facility be promoted on here. As long as it doesn't crash it :0)

Fan-bloody-tastic !

Thanks for sharing Henry.

Out on Hart Crag today. Snowed much of the day, but cover is still pretty cosmetic and it's all powder. What ice there was on Hart Crag was pretty poor. Turf frozen above about 700m. Managed to find a couple of entertaining pitches to climb, but none of the routes are there. Pendulum ridge looked better, we saw a pair head over and seem to climb it.

In reply to Will Smith:

Any forecasts for conditions for the weekend ? Hoping for a quick raid up from Manch. on Sunday , a ridge would do if nowt else!

In reply to Will Smith:

entertaining on Sharp Edge as crampons on rock through powder and up the crag at t'end by the slabs instead of t' easier gully. Looks a better day today, sadly for indoors

In reply to dominic griffiths:
Lots of snow due overnight tonight, followed tomorrow (according to MWIS and Met office) by a mini thaw with rain below 850m and freezing level above the summits. Then getting colder again Friday/Saturday.
So depending on how much rain, and then how much colder, the answer to your question could be anything from 'nothing doing' to 'perfect ice'!
We're probably heading over Saturday in the hopes of the latter but expect to find the former.

Im heading out tomorrow. Just wondering if anyone has been out near great end, and if its climbable

cheers

rob

In reply to rm1992:

Been up in langdale climbing today. Bits of ice, crampons needed. The turf above 650m is variable, seems the more exposed the better, the stuff in gullys was softer but on the butresses its brick hard on North-Easterly aspects all covered with snow. Some bits of windslab on scarp slopes but nothing of note unless there is a thaw something will go.

In reply to Toreador:
Good summary. I think I am going to do the same. Was wondering whether we might get a decent frost saturday night, but sunday could be mushy. Lets hope for a good frost thur and fri night.

NMM

Out at Blea water (haweswater) today, went up blea water gill. there was plenty of ice, bit of water underneath all climable, and proper bomber frozen turf. Ice not quite there for gear but plenty to go out for those soloists! a splendid day

In reply to biscuit:

went up to brown cove (helvellyn) today - not much in gullies or on buttresses. some thin pretty crappy ice - turf not particularly great. no real ice build up in streams yet even. BUT great views and odd cloud formations !

In reply to Henry Iddon:

<sorry for thread hijack>

It is a great website - well done them. Just to note when I was on there earlier my virus check reported there is malware/spyware on the site - in case anyone knows anyone who runs the site. (message was "Mal/ObfJS-AJ" detected in webstat.net")

In reply to rm1992:

Please can you post on here what you find.
Thanks.

In reply to MaxWilliam: I too had a virus warning from my AVG free software. Seems a bit odd for the type of website it is, ie for primary school kids!

Climbed window gully yesterday on Great End,not much ice in the lower chimneys but enough,the icefall variation finsh on pich 3 was thin and vertacal for 5 ms,water flowing over it gd4if much longer.The lower icefall was forming but looked thinner.Turf bomber were water frozen in with it

In reply to Northern Mountain Monkey:
Sounds from the latest MWIS that it'll be an excellent weekend for walking, but not for (winter) climbing.

In reply to Toreador:
Yes, sadly too true. I am clinging onto the faint hope that if it clears tommorrow night for a while, the snow-pack should re-freeze fairly quickly and so an Alpine start could pay dividends. Look at the weatherline forecast, that looks much more promising! The BBC suggests that temperatures will be colder than what Mwis is claiming. I feel a couple of early morning starts coming on and possibly some nice winter walking followed by some serious shopping!

NMM

In reply to Northern Mountain Monkey: This time of year you need frozen turf to help out over the thin ice (if it's formed). Greatend - and in particular Window Gully will be your best bet if conditions continue to stay cold.

THere is lots of snow on the tops today but this is often an illusion as there's nowt to climb up. NB you'll have to be very very early to beat the locals up Window Gully on Saturday morning (if it's 'in') - they'll be starting to climb as dawn breaks. Take a few warthogs for the turf.

Good luck

In reply to Big Andy:

No, leave the turf alone

In reply to ntb:

Too early for Lakeland winter climbing, enjoy the superb winter walking to get fitter for proper climbing in Scotland when the season starts properly

In reply to kevin stephens:


you obviously weren't out yesterday! plenty of routes in good nick yday if you went to the right places. i had a great day out climbing, as did steve ashworth by the looks of it.(www.mixedmaster.blogspot.com).
Looks like "proper climbing" to me.

In reply to ntb:

going for a very hopeful look at Great End tomorrow. I have a feeling it may turn into a walk. However i shall be able to give a condition report on it for the people already queing to go up there at the weekend :0)

In reply to biscuit:
Biscuit, your dig is right, even when Lakes winter climbing conditions are perfect, the majority of climbers always go, year in year out, to Great End and Helvellyn. It's as if they don't know of anywhere else, or they prefer crowds, or to be seen. Blea Water Gill is now becoming trendy too. To ease congestion, and to make the days climbing more enjoyable, i.e. no queueing, and quieter places, why don't they all read the latest Fell and Rock Winter Climbs in the Lakes guide? There are loads of great places, given the right conditions. Even in the days of regular "proper" winters it was the same.

In reply to Removed User:
Very true, and long may it remain so! The same in the summer, Roaches and Froggatt are always heaving while the adjacent and at-least-as-good Hen Cloud and Curbar are deserted. Apart from us of course

In reply to biscuit: did window gully yesterday

was very good turf, and good ice to climb, though not for gear. Not exactly fat ice though

was an excellant day and definatly in!

a hell of alot of snow around

and it felt warm

so not sure what it would be like this weekend

stay out of great gully. Its well banked ahem

have fun

In reply to Northern Mountain Monkey: MWIS are agreeing with the BBC on their new forecast so if they are both right it's looking good

In reply to crowberry gully:

Went for a bimble up Sharp Edge today. Reasonable cover above 450m. Freezing level about 600m, and -1C at 800m. The snow above 600m is unconsolidated, and doesn't seem to have seen significant freeze-thaw. The turf I prodded above about 600m, even under the snow, seemed frozen. Windy (30-40mph, West to North Westerly) and occasional white out on the summit. Light snow falling to about 400m as I came down.

A bit more enjoyable than a day at my desk. Have a good weekend whatever you get up to.

In reply to ntb:
Hi, went up to Helvellyn (Brown crag)today and climbed Right Buttress Crack; lots of snow, no ice, turf's not frozen but good fun and its only the 5th Dec

In reply to rm1992:

Bloody awful !

It may not be what people want to hear. Sorry.

Wet sticky snow low down turns to dry squeaky powder snow further up. NO ice - apart from a bit of rime on rocks which came off if you touched it, NO frozen turf and so warm that it didn't even freeze the water in my bladder tube.

Avalanche debris at the bottom of central gully ( only a small bit but warning signs ) and there is a lot of wet snow sat on top of the powder that fell last week. Amphitheatre is quite full and has a mini ( very mini ) cornice but the wind was blowing strongly in the right direction for it to form more.

Snow has not consolidated at all. You wnet through it down to the ground/rock all over. Grade 3 powder swimming was the order of the day, often up to your waist.

Window + Cust's gully were both full of powder and i have no idea how you climbed them yesterday. Well done.

Wet snow was falling all afternoon until we left.


So it's in then ;0)

In reply to biscuit:

Just to add saw/met 2 other teams who were of the same opinion.

We traversed along the bottom of the gullies and went up the buttress to the right of Custs just for something to do.

In reply to biscuit:

http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/labdet/GreatEnd2008#

shows some pictures from today

In reply to ntb:

Not sure if this is of any help to anyone. We had an excellent day on Bowfell Buttress today. Turf was fully frozen when you could find it ( well buried by snow). Gear was a problem too as that was also hard to find in the snow ( on the second pitch). We bailed after the second pitch due to failing light, we had started late as it was slow work walking/swimming up. It was still snowing as we left however it was turning to rain as soon as we dropped below the climbers traverse. Top day.

In reply to Shaw Brown:

Hey, how you doing Shaw. Good to hear you got out on Bowfell today. Love the shots on the fingers, awesome. I'm hoping to get out again his weekend. Let me know if you fancy meeting up for some winter climbing soon?

In reply to Jonathan Yates:

went up to north crag today (dollywagon) - looked very wintery - but just powdery snow on unfrozen turf

almost no snow in dollywagon gully, but loads on snow in Ruthwaite cove - Jogebar not formed.

could be good in another week?

In reply to Tom Phillips:

some pics from today

http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/labdet/NorthCragRuthwaiteDec08#slideshow

it "looks" great, but climbing was very poor!

In reply to ntb:
We did Central Gully, Great End yesterday. Quite a few other climbers around. Knee deep powder up to the amphitheatre and the ice pitch was quite thin. The snow in the easier gully above top was better.

Did Sharp Edge today, loads of people around, snow generally a bit harder but still powdery in places. Exposed turf rock hard.

Needs a good freeze really.

In reply to mark20: I was in Langdale, the crags east of Mickledoor were in quite good condition at 10am but the the temperature rose as I climbed. Bowfell Links had some neve that was still hard but the powder of the last few days was softening and damp. There is quite a lot of snow about so hopefully the thaw won't strip too much

In reply to mark20:
Did you manage to find the owner to the digital camera that landed on your head in CG?
Only when Matt and I reached the top, we were told by some ramblers that it was another Father and Son team that topped out before us.
I guess it must have belonged to them but they had already set of on there descent before I could let them know you found it.

In reply to ntb:

Anybody like to stick their neck out and make an early prediction for conditions on Wednesday? Word on the street is that there will be a mini thaw coming followed by refreezing. Could that start to put some nice easy gullies into condition? What do you reckon?

In reply to ravvi:

Not yet, will put up a post in lost and found later.
BTW I took a couple of photos of your mate seconding up into the amphitheatre, I can email them through if you want them?

In reply to Bingers:

Looking very good according to this. Around 0C in Ambleside at night and 3C during the day,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/5day.shtml?id=2452

In reply to mark20:
Please. That would be nice as it was his first winter route in the UK.
Good day all in all.
Hope you enjoyed the route and enjoy the rest of the winter
ravvi@hotmail.co.uk

In reply to ntb: Was at Tarn Crag yesterday, the gullies had a decent bed of neve in them though as the temp was above zero it was soft but reasonable. MWIS is forecasting a lower freezing levels for Tues and Wed which would harden it up.
The pitch in gully 1 wasn't formed but gullies 2 and 3 received several ascents. We did Dollywagon gully. The initial large chockstone was a bit of a verglassed rock climb but ok and above there was decent neve, a foot thick or so. The top section didn't have a huge amount of ice but enough. It was not certainly in "proper" winter nick If not great.

Dollywagon chimney was nowhere near formed but Falcon crag gully had ice chunks falling out of it so it was obviously being climbed but I didn't actually see it.

In reply to ntb:
Ambled up a Grade 1(ish) gully thing in Keppel Cove, Whiteside (between Helvelyn and Raise) on Saturday . It's not in the guide, but given some of the routes that are (and get stars!), it probably should be. Anyway, a grand day out. The snow was pretty good as it gets a bit of morning sun to consolidate it, although it was still soft and deep in places. But for an easy traditional route away from the crowds, but with a really short walk-in, I'd heartily recommend it.

Got to the top then went for a bit of ski tour over Raise to Sticks Pass, then skied back down past the drag lift to just above the mines. Cracking end to top day out.

In reply to pec:if your talking about the final slab being a bit bare of ice, you can blame the leader above me who managed to make a right mess of what was there! lol, it was his first lead though so ill let him off! we where doing dollywagon on sat and the only othe team we saw came out of either of the gullys left of us, but dont know which. was a cracking day!

In reply to ntb:

Which is likely to be the best day in terms of conditions - tomorrow or Wednesday?

In reply to alan edmonds:

Wednesday I would think, the more freeze the better.

In reply to ntb: had 3 great days out, helvellyn thursday and friday and great carrs on saturday. Turf still not frozen on helvellyn but was starting to freeze on great carrs high up by saturday. All of them were easy gullies due to the turf not being frozen, but what a great start to the season, weathers looking good for this weekend, bring on saturday! by the way i ve baggsied the gimp for saturday

In reply to ntb:

Two climbers rescued from one of the Helvellyn gullies on saturday according to ceefax.

Steve

In reply to 4712topo: Yes, I was coming down Swirrel and one of the rescue party was looking & guiding two others going up from the tarn. I heard the two rescued had gone up gulley no.2 but didn't have the right gear?! The snow was very soft on grade 1 ground but a few climbers had been up so not sure what the two guys were expecting. The helicopter was out so not sure if they were hurt or just caught out by the steepening ground.

In reply to ntb:

Anybody been playing out today, who would like to update on conditions, particularly Helvellyn area?

Much thanks, tomorrow is baggsied as playtime for me!

In reply to ntb: Been out on Helvellyn today, soloed v-corner, blade runner, wall and ramp and a few other variations. Lots of water ice about, solid turf and the snow was mostly ok. Buttresses had a light hoaring. Looking good for the rest of the week.

Adam (on toms login)

In reply to ntb: where is a good place to find details of lakes winter routes , thks

In reply to kingjam:

maybe a guidebook might be a good place to start!

In reply to moo:

Do you get a peep into Number 1 and Number 2 Gullies, perchance?

In reply to Bingers:

Can't help you with Helvellyn, but I was on Great End with a friend. We did Window Gully with Wall & Groove finish (the icefall leading out right from the lower part of the last pitch). Then we rapped back into the Gully proper and climbed the normal finish. The other alternative finish opposite the 'window' is well formed. All in all a top day in fairly good conditions - mostly hard snow, mostly frozen turf, and good ice. Big up the dude(s) doing a night ascent of Central as we walked down. Should be well worth a look tomorrow.

In reply to Elprup:
"The other alternative finish opposite the 'window' is well formed. "

if a little banked out

In reply to ntb: where is a good place to find details of lakes winter routes , thks

In reply to kingjam: Well you could buy the excellent guidebook. If you're too tight, some of it is online here:

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=mn6YlrugR_UC&printsec=frontcover&...

In reply to kingjam:
Some stuff here too
http://www.rockfax.com/databases/results_area.html?id=22

In reply to Bingers:

Bit late for you but:
Was on Dollywagon N yesterday. Nothing is consolidated as yet. The thaw-freeze I was hoping had occured Mon-Tues night hadn't and there was a lot of powdered snow and dry turf.

A.-

In reply to ArnaudG:

Great End

main pitch on central gully left branch was in great nick today - perfect ice. lower down the gully was a bit thin.

looked like window gully ice fall was OK as well

get there tomorrow before it warms up!

In reply to All: I'm off tomorrow, anybody else get out today? Looking a bit wet for weekend.

In reply to Ian Black: went on great gable today and climbed central gully (bottom really thin and interesting) with the smart exit, top half of the crag was great for mixed and turf frozen, all snow about was consolidated and fine. pinnacle ridge was in shape and all the bad ass numbers up on the higher faces.
trundle ridge looked very very good from where we were.
nicw day been had
jas

In reply to Bingers:

I'll answer my own question as I'm sure that it will be of use to someone.

Number 2 Gully was doable. I've been up it with more snow in it - the central rocks/scree beneath it were partially uncovered. People had obviously been up it when the snow was soft as they had left big footprints, so its a bit staircase like. The icy section in the middle hasn't fully formed although there is enough to make a novice think a bit. The turf was frozen and most of the snow solid enough, except for nearer the top lip - I tried zig-zagging on untouched snow and found a couple of bits coming away in 2cm deep slabs (not massive ones but warning size ones), so it returned to the staircase, which was nicely solid.

Number 1 Gully had very little snow in the constriction and the ice hadn't fully formed. I've compared it to photos from my previous two visits and its got nothing like the snowy platform that helps make the constriction wider and the step easier. Anyway, on my own, I bottled it and saved it and me for another day. Others did go that way and said it was okay, but not for me for today.

If its an indication of freezing levels around there, you might be interested to know that the Tarn is only frozen in the corner nearest to the snowbowl.

Anyway, a gorgeous day with excellent visibility at times and less so at others. Glad I went, even more so that others were at work and I wasn't.

In reply to jas wood: Thanks Jas, I'm off out tomorrow. Glad you got something done today. I might head over Great end way for a wee solo

In reply to ntb:Been out on Helvellyn today, via Catseye cam gully we only had time for v-corner, however quite a few other climbers out and all enjoying themselves conditions were good Lots of water ice about, solid turf and the snow was mostly ok. A superb day and better than being at work.

In reply to Ian Black:
probably too late to tell you now but great end didn,t LOOK as good as gable today and buttresses appeared black but i,m sure central or se gully and maybe window would be okay and custs also.
helvellyn area appeared to have best coverage
enjoy your day wherever you end up
jas @ work

Anyone seen if Pinnacle Ridge St Sunday Crag has any snow on it? Thinking of going there this weekend. How low is the snow level?

In reply to mikey tugmaster:

it had very little on it sunday - and snow level has risen a lot since then, so probably not - very little snow in patterdale area

In reply to mikey tugmaster: Mikey, it may be possibe to do it as I did the other weekend - I climbed it without crampons but used both axes + hands. I really enjoyed it. The corner being particularly interesting. You'll never know until you walk up to it. But given a bit of snow it should be OK as there's not a lot of turf anyway - it's mostly hooking. Try my suggested day Pinnacle Ridge - drop down to Grizedale and up to Dollywagon - do South Gully (which had piles of snow in it last Sunday) trot over to Helvellyn do Nethermost Gully and return via Striding Edge. A great day out, 14km and 430m of climbing. I soloed the routes but if you moved together it wouldn't add much to the day. All the best, Dave S

In reply to Dave Sarkar: wow-that's a day and a half - we'll see what conditions are like-cheers

In reply to jas wood: Ended up on Helvelyn as I had a late start. Did No I gully, a wee bit thin and just Verglass up through that narrow channel, but snow above was pretty decent Neve. Saw a couple on V corner, but not a lot of climbers about today.

Ian.

In reply to Ian Black:
i think an early start in the morning might get a route in but i cannot nick off work tonight (permaent nightshift)
glad you had a good day
jas

In reply to ntb:

Did v-corner, helveylin last night; topping out at ~11pm. On the second pitch I didn't fancy the slabby groove which was a bit thin and seemed to involve nothing for the feet while hanging from some dubious turf. In the end i stepped right into a parallel groove with some turf on the right hand wall. This was desperate, though less easy to back off so i pressed on emerging at the bottom of the v corner. In hindsight I think the 'propper' pitch two may have been easier; has anyone done both??

John

In reply to john.bennetts:

Ineresting you topped out at 11pm. Perhaps you could contribute to my Night Climbing thread @

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=332804

In reply to john.bennetts: I've done both ways and the 'proper' pitch 2 has 1 hard move and is then easy, the other way you went is more sustained

In reply to ntb: any one think anything will be in condition this sat/sunday? lakes or north wales

In reply to kristov:
Warm and rainy tonight, so no chance tomorrow. Then getting colder so Sunday's an outside possibility (if there's any snow left).

In reply to Toreador:
The latest MWIS forecast is rather different, keeping the freezing level much lower tonight, so the heavy rain will be heavy snow instead, with a low freezing level tomorrow too. Met Office still going for rain and a thaw.

So it's either avalanche city or a big thaw...

In reply to Toreador:
Very astute weather observations again! Did you manage to get anything done last weekend? I had a great day out on Gable, top mixed conditions. I am heading up to the Lakes again to chance it on sunday!

NMM

In reply to Northern Mountain Monkey: It'll be good!

Bowfell Buttress was in brilliant condition today; there was even something aproaching good neve on the ledges! Heavy snow showers on the way in this morning, cold and the wind was picking up as we left. I expect the wet weather will be falling as snow up there. Go and get it while it's good!

Cheers, Loz

In reply to loz01: Seems really mild find it hard to believe there will be any snow left by tommorrow even on the tops it is forecast to be rain and plus 4 degrees.

In reply to neil0968:
Yes. The forecast does look rather worrying. I expect the FL will go up to just above summit level tonight and chuck it down. It just depends on what stage the snow has got to in its development, if it has reached the crystal structure of good neve then it can with stand the rain as the water will go between the crystals in small conduits. If not there won't be much snow left!

NMM

In reply to Northern Mountain Monkey:

back from wandering around getting lost on Helv. in the mist and high winds
looking for routes today.

On way down it started to snow, it was snowing above 600m and raining below that at 4pm.

some good ice , some good turf and lots of windslab building, only small
slabs but not confidence inspiring. small to no cornice.

In reply to neil0968:
I don't know, the turf has been frozen beneath the snow for over a week now; my mate was on Bowfell last Sun when it was very mild and the turf was remaining good beneath the snow, as it was the friday before, when i was up there. The wind will be keeping the temps down, and I reckon it's probably snowing up high, or sleeting maybe, despite the forecast (which has been innacurate recently anyway).

Cheers, Loz

In reply to Northern Mountain Monkey:
>if it has reached the crystal structure of good neve

Not quite 'good neve' on Bowfell today, but getting very close to it.

Cheers, Loz

In reply to ntb: off to the lakes tommorrow {sunday} cant decide which weather forecast to beleive, so if anyone who lives there is oneline now could you have a look out your window and let us know what its doning at the moment.

In reply to russty:

It's raining with low cloud. Quite miserable weather. Can still see snow on Fairfield.

In reply to russty:

Still raining. I live in Windermere- elevation 100m- and the temp outside is 4 degrees. That puts the freezing level around 900m.

In reply to ntb: Long time since the original question sparked the thread but just to let you know that we climbed Viking Buttress yesterday during a proper winter's day. Great climbing just the last ten metres of the route a bit thin, having the bare necessity of turf blobs for progress. Windslab was building heavily on the summit slopes as snow was blown in all day.

In reply to mikeallison:please keep updates coming as it will help me decide what to do tommorrow cheers for all replys, russty.

In reply to ntb:

http://www.keswickweather.co.uk/

This is a cracking site as it shows detailed weather now but also shows what it's been like for the previous days.

V Handy.

Henry Iddon posted it earlier in this thread. Check it out.

In reply to russty: Raining and 5C in west lakes currently. May be falling as slush on the very tops. I dont know if a frost is forecast tonight.

My advice would be not to bother if you have to make a long journey.

In reply to 3leggeddog: The becks are high too, indicating a large scale thaw

In reply to biscuit:

Just had a scan on that site.

Temp 4.8 deg at valley level + didn't drop much below that last night
No wind
Baromoeter falling

Not looking good.

In reply to russty:
Looking at the Wasdale web cam, Scafells look to be well covered above 700m.
Al.

In reply to ntb: Conditions good at the Kendal wall.

In reply to biscuit:

This is another handy site:

http://www.ldscsnowski.co.uk/page6.html

It gives the low down on the ski lift at Raise and the recorded telephone number often has daily data on the conditions at Raise - temp etc.

In reply to Northern Mountain Monkey:

No climbing, had a great day's walking in the Howgills though. Some of the other guys did Pinnacle Ridge that day.

Not bothering this weekend, rather iffy and I'm full of cold

In reply to Toreador: nobody been out today ? just wondered if i missed anything in the lakes today as i was pencilled in to climb today.

In reply to jas wood: you did...... Did South East Buttress on Great End, turf excellent above half height, good below that, lots of fresh snow and clearing required. South East gully not in, central got done by some other people

In reply to jas wood: was at dow crag. the gullies looked in great nick. lots of snow and bits of ice. i'm trying to get a partner to climb there tomorrow. can you make it?

In reply to ntb: Went up to Helvellyn above Red Tarn yesterday (Sun).
The snow has survived the milder weather at the weekend quite well, indeed there was an inch or so of fresh snow which fell Sat afternoon/eve/night.

There was a foot to 2 feet of reasonable neve which was fairly soft as the freezing level was hovering around the summit but it held picks quite well, likewise the ice was melting a bit but not too fast and held picks well where it was thick enough.
Did V corner which was in reasonable nick and downclimbed gully 2 which had a line of bucket steps all the way up it. Went up to look at gully 1 but the steep narrow bit didn't have much snow/ice and being above freezing it wasn't thick enough to hold picks so didn't force it.
Other parties were on gully 1 buttress and Blade runner.

In reply to pec:

I went up gully 1 - red tarn this afternoon. just about in, has been well travelled. was thawing on summit - snow was actually more frozen at about 600 metre level.

very scenic - pics to follow

In reply to pec: Aye, even on thurs when conditions were better I found that wee narrow channel on No1 Gully quite tricky with just a bit of Verglass on the slab. Was it busy?


Ian.

In reply to Ian Black:

a couple had just gone up in front of me - a couple where on the buttress to the right. apart from that very few people around, although the gully had obviously had a few people up it earlier.


pici of red tarn today here

http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/labdet/RedTarnDec08#5280126359892257058

In reply to Tom Phillips:

The frozen area of the Tarn has increased since last Wednesday and the re seems to be a lot more snow covering the rock/scree beneath Number 2 Gully.

I'm pleased to read what I have done about Number 1 Gully as it confirms to me that I did right in leaving it alone last week, shoulder still in tact.

In reply to Ian Black:
As far as I know nobody did gully 1 on Sunday. There were only 5 or 6 parties climbing in total so not busy given how much could be done.

In reply to Bingers:

Did central gully left branch yesterday on great end, conditions ok, ice was solid enough and there was plenty of snow. It was thawing though.

I cant imagine there will be much left for next weekend if conditions stay like this.

In reply to pec:





Same on Thursday, considering how good a day it was, not many out at all. The route was by no means hard, but in the lean conditions, first winter route of the season, soloing, and old age, it felt awkward.

In reply to ntb:

More seasonal weather returned last night. Back to mild grey wet now. Never mind its been a good start.

In reply to 3leggeddog:
Too true. Only a couple of frosts can save things now.

NMM

In reply to ntb:

Did central gully on great end yesterday, thawing at all levels with avalanche debris especially in the upper snow apron of right branch. The pitch out of the amphitheater was in thin nick and melting, felt considerably harder to lead than v-corner (III) on helvellyn solo last week!

Spent the night below great end. Windy and wet during the night; woke to mild, windy and wet conditions with widespread thaw at all levels ( waterfalls could be seen flowing in central gully!) many becks were swollen and we used the rope for security on one.

In reply to Northern Mountain Monkey:
It's only going to get warmer (and wetter, and windier), so winter's over until after Christmas. Shame I missed most of it

In reply to Toreador:

thawing in gulleys on Helvelyn today as well - despite biting wind and icy footpaths routes on North Crag Dollywagon were a none starter.