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BBC News 24 has just reported an avalanche in Glencoe involving 7 climbers.
UKC Staff Edit:
Now on the UKC News Page:http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/older.html?month=01&year=2009#n45780
UKC Staff Edit:
Now on the UKC News Page:http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/older.html?month=01&year=2009#n45780
In reply to DesperateDan:
I had wondered what the rescue helicopters were doing up and about.
Really hope everyone involved is safe and unhurt.
I had wondered what the rescue helicopters were doing up and about.
Really hope everyone involved is safe and unhurt.
In reply to Only a hill:
Latest from their News Channel Live confirms 'there have been casualties', which sadly doesn't sound good.
> Really hope everyone involved is safe and unhurt.
Latest from their News Channel Live confirms 'there have been casualties', which sadly doesn't sound good.
In reply to petestack: I'm hoping against hope for a good outcome. But as you say, it sounds bad.
In reply to Nicholas Livesey:
Latest: 'two climbers taken to hospital and rescue dogs search for a third.'
Latest: 'two climbers taken to hospital and rescue dogs search for a third.'
In reply to petestack:
Head of inverness police just said that all climbers have been accounted for, two have been taken to hospital and others are being treated on the hill.
Head of inverness police just said that all climbers have been accounted for, two have been taken to hospital and others are being treated on the hill.
In reply to DesperateDan:
BBC just reported that it was in Coire na Tulach (not sure of the spelling without checking). Police inspector said there were no missing people and that there are still people being treated on the hill at the moment.
Still no word on how serious the casualties are.
BBC just reported that it was in Coire na Tulach (not sure of the spelling without checking). Police inspector said there were no missing people and that there are still people being treated on the hill at the moment.
Still no word on how serious the casualties are.
In reply to Lawman:
last thing posted on this thread last night, along with other warnings;
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=338327&v=1#x4985510
last thing posted on this thread last night, along with other warnings;
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=338327&v=1#x4985510
In reply to sutty: Aye....well posted Sutty....it's well known for being a dodgy place with any recent snow. There were small slides here when i was up a few weeks ago and it was a cat 2 that day...
In reply to abr1966:
never good to hear but its a well known avalanche area, and with the new snow we've had it to happen, just unfortunate for the climbers involved, glad they got out tho.
never good to hear but its a well known avalanche area, and with the new snow we've had it to happen, just unfortunate for the climbers involved, glad they got out tho.
In reply to David Reid: saw the activity from the ville, be warned, the buachaille is buried with much windblown snow and its currently getting worse.
hope all is well with the casualties
hope all is well with the casualties
In reply to abr1966:
When deciding whether to use it in descent we always checked for firmness, and went the long way round a couple of times after fresh snow. On most of these pictures you cannot see the headwall till close up;
http://www.geograph.org.uk/search.php?i=5049801
When deciding whether to use it in descent we always checked for firmness, and went the long way round a couple of times after fresh snow. On most of these pictures you cannot see the headwall till close up;
http://www.geograph.org.uk/search.php?i=5049801
In reply to Lawman:
Coire na Tulaich.
Looks like they've now dropped the report from correspondent James Shaw in Glasgow, complete with this helpful commentary:
'There's been a lot of snowfall in the area [might not have got that first bit quite right/complete, but don't think they're going to broadcast it again]. In fact mountain sports enthusiasts have been told it's a great weekend for getting out in the mountains. It sounds as if this party of seven are amongst those people who have been going out in the mountains this weekend.'
Coire na Tulaich.
Looks like they've now dropped the report from correspondent James Shaw in Glasgow, complete with this helpful commentary:
'There's been a lot of snowfall in the area [might not have got that first bit quite right/complete, but don't think they're going to broadcast it again]. In fact mountain sports enthusiasts have been told it's a great weekend for getting out in the mountains. It sounds as if this party of seven are amongst those people who have been going out in the mountains this weekend.'
In reply to sutty:
Fortunately it wasn't these climbers - I say fortunately as one of them is my husband. I am still crossing fingers for a postive outcome for the climbers involved. Ste75 and my husband headed up to Curved Ridge and backed off due to huge amounts of powder snow. They saw the rescue helicopters as they were coming down.
I am so glad this is the one time my husband answered his mobile the first time I rang it! Was sat here in pieces when I heard the news. Crossing figers, toes and everything else for a good outcome for the climbers involved and say Take Care to everyone climbing in Scotland at the mo - the huge amount of snowfall and relatively warm weather has led to really unstable conditions. Please all be careful.
ALJ
> (In reply to Lawman)
>
> last thing posted on this thread last night, along with other warnings;
>
> http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=338327&v=1#x4985510
>
> last thing posted on this thread last night, along with other warnings;
>
> http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=338327&v=1#x4985510
Fortunately it wasn't these climbers - I say fortunately as one of them is my husband. I am still crossing fingers for a postive outcome for the climbers involved. Ste75 and my husband headed up to Curved Ridge and backed off due to huge amounts of powder snow. They saw the rescue helicopters as they were coming down.
I am so glad this is the one time my husband answered his mobile the first time I rang it! Was sat here in pieces when I heard the news. Crossing figers, toes and everything else for a good outcome for the climbers involved and say Take Care to everyone climbing in Scotland at the mo - the huge amount of snowfall and relatively warm weather has led to really unstable conditions. Please all be careful.
ALJ
In reply to alj:
Good, for your hubby, tell him to hire some planks and go skiing instead. only broken limbs then.;-(
There was a lot of good advice given on that thread, for those who took notice.
Good, for your hubby, tell him to hire some planks and go skiing instead. only broken limbs then.;-(
There was a lot of good advice given on that thread, for those who took notice.
In reply to alj: Keith Harper of this parish and another mate also backed off Curved Ridge today. I was pleased to get a call from them saying they were Ok.
Alan
Alan
In reply to sutty:
There was definitely good advice and they took it on board.
Just on the news now says all 3 have been rescued but that all have been seriously injured. Sending best wishes to them. Good work by the RAF and Mountain Rescue.
There was definitely good advice and they took it on board.
Just on the news now says all 3 have been rescued but that all have been seriously injured. Sending best wishes to them. Good work by the RAF and Mountain Rescue.
In reply to Jonno: Coire na Tulaich I think...could be wrong.
In reply to Jonno:
No - Coire na Tulaich, which is here: http://www.bdcc.co.uk/XMarksTheSpot.htm?g=NN2176754607&t=NN2176754607
Have had a couple of scares on the final headwall and tend to bypass it if it's looking dodgy.
No - Coire na Tulaich, which is here: http://www.bdcc.co.uk/XMarksTheSpot.htm?g=NN2176754607&t=NN2176754607
Have had a couple of scares on the final headwall and tend to bypass it if it's looking dodgy.
BBC saying 3 climbers killed in avalanche.....a sad sad day, thoughts and prayers with their friends and families
In reply to jimben59:
Oh no, that is awfull. My condolences to families and friends.
> BBC saying 3 climbers killed in avalanche.....a sad sad day, thoughts and prayers with their friends and families
Oh no, that is awfull. My condolences to families and friends.
In reply to Trangia: Absolutely gutted. A very sad day indeed. My condolences to all who knew the victims.
In reply to Nicholas Livesey:
Sadly, it's been confirmed that three have died. But they're now also saying there were two separate incidents on the mountain and a total of nine people taken off.
Sadly, it's been confirmed that three have died. But they're now also saying there were two separate incidents on the mountain and a total of nine people taken off.
In reply to petestack:
Very sad, a tragic day. The details will emerge, but the question has to be asked, and is implied by the BBC in quoting the SAIS avalanche warning: Why were so many folk on the hill in obvious avalanche conditions?
Very sad, a tragic day. The details will emerge, but the question has to be asked, and is implied by the BBC in quoting the SAIS avalanche warning: Why were so many folk on the hill in obvious avalanche conditions?
In reply to jimben59:
very sad day. thoughts and wishes with friends and family. please all take care if climbing up there!
very sad day. thoughts and wishes with friends and family. please all take care if climbing up there!
In reply to jimben59:
> BBC saying 3 climbers killed in avalanche
> When they kept saying earlier that there were still 3 climbers receiving treatment on the hill, although other victims had been taken off, I just suspected that they were too badly injured to be moved. Sadly it turned out to be true.
> When they kept saying earlier that there were still 3 climbers receiving treatment on the hill, although other victims had been taken off, I just suspected that they were too badly injured to be moved. Sadly it turned out to be true.
In reply to Nicholas Livesey:
Really ? Crowberry seems to be THE place to be avalanched on the Buc. I had a couple of friends sluiced out of it a few years ago.
> (In reply to Jonno) Coire na Tulaich I think...could be wrong.>>
Really ? Crowberry seems to be THE place to be avalanched on the Buc. I had a couple of friends sluiced out of it a few years ago.
In reply to Jonno:
There was a fatal avalanche incident involving 3 people in Coire na Tulaich about 14 years ago.
There was a fatal avalanche incident involving 3 people in Coire na Tulaich about 14 years ago.
In reply to Jonno:
Yes. Coire na Tulaich. Are you trying to dispute the facts or what?
And Great Gully is also notorious. But today's tragedy took place in Coire na Tulaich. They're all well-known blackspots.
> (In reply to Nicholas Livesey)
> Really ?
> Really ?
Yes. Coire na Tulaich. Are you trying to dispute the facts or what?
> Crowberry seems to be THE place to be avalanched on the Buc.
And Great Gully is also notorious. But today's tragedy took place in Coire na Tulaich. They're all well-known blackspots.
In reply to DesperateDan: Very sad news, condolences.
In reply to D.Musgrave:
Not wanting to hijack this thread with inconsiderate questions, so check Coire na Tulaich thread.
Not wanting to hijack this thread with inconsiderate questions, so check Coire na Tulaich thread.
In reply to petestack:
Here is a blog from yesterday where if it is the same area said it was the best way down.
http://www.abacusmountaineering.com/
23rd January 2009
After a bright start we had a period of a couple of hours of snowfall today. The temperature went up by a couple of degrees during the day and the snow on the bottom half of the hills started to get a bit wet. John, Richard and I climbed D Gully Buttress next to Curved Ridge on Buachaille Etive Mor which is a great climb with two quite tricky mixed climbing sections. After four pitches it joins Curved Ridge at the crux tower where we used the deep trail in the snow from several parties ahead. The basin at the top of the ridge is heavily loaded with snow but it is easily outflanked on the right side.
There is also quick a good trail down the ridge of Coire na Tulloch which is certainly the best way down at the moment. It's hard work getting anywhere at the moment with all this soft snow but the buttresses are well covered in snow and rime and the mixed climbing conditions are very good although posibly a bit too snowy!
> (In reply to Jonno)
> [...]
>
> Yes. Coire na Tulaich. Are you trying to dispute the facts or what?
>
> [...]
>
> And Great Gully is also notorious. But today's tragedy took place in Coire na Tulaich. They're all well-known blackspots.
> [...]
>
> Yes. Coire na Tulaich. Are you trying to dispute the facts or what?
>
> [...]
>
> And Great Gully is also notorious. But today's tragedy took place in Coire na Tulaich. They're all well-known blackspots.
Here is a blog from yesterday where if it is the same area said it was the best way down.
http://www.abacusmountaineering.com/
23rd January 2009
After a bright start we had a period of a couple of hours of snowfall today. The temperature went up by a couple of degrees during the day and the snow on the bottom half of the hills started to get a bit wet. John, Richard and I climbed D Gully Buttress next to Curved Ridge on Buachaille Etive Mor which is a great climb with two quite tricky mixed climbing sections. After four pitches it joins Curved Ridge at the crux tower where we used the deep trail in the snow from several parties ahead. The basin at the top of the ridge is heavily loaded with snow but it is easily outflanked on the right side.
There is also quick a good trail down the ridge of Coire na Tulloch which is certainly the best way down at the moment. It's hard work getting anywhere at the moment with all this soft snow but the buttresses are well covered in snow and rime and the mixed climbing conditions are very good although posibly a bit too snowy!
In reply to Jim C:
Mike's blog update you have quoted says "There is also quick a good trail down the RIDGE of Coire na Tulloch"
i.e not the corrie itself.
In fact, Mike posted here last night saying "just don't go onto any open snow slopes or down Coire na Tullach.
"
Mike's blog update you have quoted says "There is also quick a good trail down the RIDGE of Coire na Tulloch"
i.e not the corrie itself.
In fact, Mike posted here last night saying "just don't go onto any open snow slopes or down Coire na Tullach.
"
In reply to jimben59: awful news.. thoughts go out to family and friends
the weather in the coe today was dfifferent to what I expected, with much heavier snow showers, above about 200ft the hills where rarely clear of cloud and therefore snow, and it was pretty windy with lee slopes extremely loaded. The buachaille is absolutely buried, so much so you could barely make out the normal features on the north face.
the weather in the coe today was dfifferent to what I expected, with much heavier snow showers, above about 200ft the hills where rarely clear of cloud and therefore snow, and it was pretty windy with lee slopes extremely loaded. The buachaille is absolutely buried, so much so you could barely make out the normal features on the north face.
In reply to Erik B:
A complete contrast to the Cairngorms and the East coast. Very clear and still for the most part. I was at the Husky races and the views across to the Northern Corries were good, I was itching to get up there!
A complete contrast to the Cairngorms and the East coast. Very clear and still for the most part. I was at the Husky races and the views across to the Northern Corries were good, I was itching to get up there!
In reply to Glen: we should have another thread for this, but to me there didnt look to be any safe area on the buachaille today, it is a complex hill with many areas which can accumlate windslab, lets stop these internet reports and snippets of well intended but potentially dangerous advice NOW. It should be remebered a lot can change in 3 hours let alone 24 hours, historical info is irrelevant in scotland in winter.
In reply to Erik B:
Check out these forecasts, hill and sea conditions. Gales most areas and blizzards tomorrow;
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/loutdoor/mountainsafety/westhighland.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/coast/shipping/
Check out these forecasts, hill and sea conditions. Gales most areas and blizzards tomorrow;
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/loutdoor/mountainsafety/westhighland.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/coast/shipping/
In reply to Glen:
Agreed
I did say above .......
"if it is the same area "
Thanks for the clarification
> (In reply to Jim C)
>
> Mike's blog update you have quoted says "There is also quick a good trail down the RIDGE of Coire na Tulloch"
>
> i.e not the corrie itself.
>
> In fact, Mike posted here last night saying "just don't go onto any open snow slopes or down Coire na Tullach.
> "
>
> Mike's blog update you have quoted says "There is also quick a good trail down the RIDGE of Coire na Tulloch"
>
> i.e not the corrie itself.
>
> In fact, Mike posted here last night saying "just don't go onto any open snow slopes or down Coire na Tullach.
> "
Agreed
I did say above .......
"if it is the same area "
Thanks for the clarification
In reply to Erik B:
Hi Erik,
I think that the conditions reports given by individuals are extemely useful. Any small snippets of information can be particularly useful in making hazard assessments - and it helps immensely to know the history of what conditions were like in a particular area during the previous day(s).
Dan
Hi Erik,
I think that the conditions reports given by individuals are extemely useful. Any small snippets of information can be particularly useful in making hazard assessments - and it helps immensely to know the history of what conditions were like in a particular area during the previous day(s).
Dan
I'm very sorry to hear about these three avalanche deaths. My thoughts and prayers are with their relatives and friends, and with the six survivors.
Thoughts are with the families involved. A terrible tragedy, please everyone, be safe.
In reply to DesperateDan:
Deepest sympathy for all the friends and family of those involved.
And no doubt a great effort by the rescue teams to aid the lucky ones who were "only" injured and get them back to safety in very trying and dangerous conditions.
||-)
Deepest sympathy for all the friends and family of those involved.
And no doubt a great effort by the rescue teams to aid the lucky ones who were "only" injured and get them back to safety in very trying and dangerous conditions.
||-)
In reply to DesperateDan:
Just seen this on the news!
Only caught the end... but looks to be a sad day.
My thoughts for those involved and their families.
Just seen this on the news!
Only caught the end... but looks to be a sad day.
My thoughts for those involved and their families.
In reply to Erik B:
Hi Erik. I was at the sharp end of this today. Grim. The media reporting is total cock and the RAF press releases laughable. You are spot on in your comment that 3 hours can make a huge difference, and this was the case today. I am staggered at the shite in the news as it's all inaccurate. I will now get hammered and think of lovely ski trips to Tignes!
Hi Erik. I was at the sharp end of this today. Grim. The media reporting is total cock and the RAF press releases laughable. You are spot on in your comment that 3 hours can make a huge difference, and this was the case today. I am staggered at the shite in the news as it's all inaccurate. I will now get hammered and think of lovely ski trips to Tignes!
In reply to Young Fox:
http://pistehors.com/news/ski/comments/081-glencoe-avalanche/ by a paramedic from the GMRT
http://pistehors.com/news/ski/comments/081-glencoe-avalanche/ by a paramedic from the GMRT
My husband had thought about taking a trip up there today to do curved ridge - and even though he didn't this has hit home!
My thoughts and prayers are with the mothers/brothers/sisters/children and everyone who knew those who died today.
My thoughts and prayers are with the mothers/brothers/sisters/children and everyone who knew those who died today.
In reply to dinkypen:
He says the avalanche risk was "Category 4"...
The SAIS forecast said today would be "Category 3": http://www.sais.gov.uk/page_glencoe.asp
I'm not sure if he's saying the conditions were worse than forecast or whether he's saying the forecast was different(?)
> (In reply to Young Fox)
>
> http://pistehors.com/news/ski/comments/081-glencoe-avalanche/ by a paramedic from the GMRT
>
> http://pistehors.com/news/ski/comments/081-glencoe-avalanche/ by a paramedic from the GMRT
He says the avalanche risk was "Category 4"...
The SAIS forecast said today would be "Category 3": http://www.sais.gov.uk/page_glencoe.asp
I'm not sure if he's saying the conditions were worse than forecast or whether he's saying the forecast was different(?)
In reply to oui oui:
Very sad news. This is not the place to start analysing what might of happened or who said what.
Very sad news. This is not the place to start analysing what might of happened or who said what.
In reply to Young Fox: What's innaccurate?
In reply to Young Fox: Post 2008 KIMM i can believe anything but a first hand report rather than a short quip would perhaps help put the events in perspective if you have further info.
Whatever the circs its a sad sad day.
Condolences and sincere thoughts...
Whatever the circs its a sad sad day.
Condolences and sincere thoughts...
In reply to DesperateDan:
Today's weather forecast for the west underestimated the amount of snowfall which was much more prolonged than originally forecast. I was on Ben More and Stobinian at Crianlarich and there was fairly continuous and heavy snowfall from 2 until 5pm. Ridges were pretty scoured and icy with a LOT of spindrift with the westerly gusting around 40+ knots and white -out frequently. The descent from Bealach eadar dha bheinnn had a lot of deep snow right down to the glen. I came across one party with no crampons at the top of Ben More - didn't envy them their descent! - they seemed to have indulged in a fair bit of step-cutting on the way up and were knackered. My own thoughts on the Buachaille (unless doing a route) would in the prevailing conditions to go up from Glen Etive as west facing slopes are much more open to scouring in the prevailing wind at the moment. Tomorrow's forecast offers a lot more snow so maybe better waiting until February!!
Today's weather forecast for the west underestimated the amount of snowfall which was much more prolonged than originally forecast. I was on Ben More and Stobinian at Crianlarich and there was fairly continuous and heavy snowfall from 2 until 5pm. Ridges were pretty scoured and icy with a LOT of spindrift with the westerly gusting around 40+ knots and white -out frequently. The descent from Bealach eadar dha bheinnn had a lot of deep snow right down to the glen. I came across one party with no crampons at the top of Ben More - didn't envy them their descent! - they seemed to have indulged in a fair bit of step-cutting on the way up and were knackered. My own thoughts on the Buachaille (unless doing a route) would in the prevailing conditions to go up from Glen Etive as west facing slopes are much more open to scouring in the prevailing wind at the moment. Tomorrow's forecast offers a lot more snow so maybe better waiting until February!!
In reply to DesperateDan: Anyone heard from Alex Roddie?
In reply to kevin stephens:
General principles to bear in mind.
I have often been on the hill in Cat 3 and Cat 4 Avalanche risk, and been quite safe, because I have been able to use the ground and weather. For example, if there has been a consistently strong westerly wind and it is forecast to continue, the western slopes of a hill are likely to be scoured clear of any loose stuff and hence relatively safe, even though the easterly slopes may be death traps. Also, many ridge routes remain safe even when corries are dangerous.
The danger can come when the weather does something which was not predicted, for example dumps a whole lot of soft and unstable snow on an area that was safe and was predicted to stay safe.
As for today: I know enough to realise that all we know for sure is three people have died and one person was injured. There's a huge amount of pain and grief out there, and I extend my condolences to all who have been affected by this tragedy.
> (In reply to petestack)
>
> The details will emerge, but the question has to be asked, and is implied by the BBC in quoting the SAIS avalanche warning: Why were so many folk on the hill in obvious avalanche conditions?
>
> The details will emerge, but the question has to be asked, and is implied by the BBC in quoting the SAIS avalanche warning: Why were so many folk on the hill in obvious avalanche conditions?
General principles to bear in mind.
I have often been on the hill in Cat 3 and Cat 4 Avalanche risk, and been quite safe, because I have been able to use the ground and weather. For example, if there has been a consistently strong westerly wind and it is forecast to continue, the western slopes of a hill are likely to be scoured clear of any loose stuff and hence relatively safe, even though the easterly slopes may be death traps. Also, many ridge routes remain safe even when corries are dangerous.
The danger can come when the weather does something which was not predicted, for example dumps a whole lot of soft and unstable snow on an area that was safe and was predicted to stay safe.
As for today: I know enough to realise that all we know for sure is three people have died and one person was injured. There's a huge amount of pain and grief out there, and I extend my condolences to all who have been affected by this tragedy.
In reply to kevin stephens:
Cat 3 is quite normal. I'd certainly head out in a cat 3. It would certainly affect my route choice, but a cat 3 would definitly not stop me heading out. Also not the time to look for blame. Avalanches are all about risk, sometimes there is no fault, avalanches still happen even in historically 'safe' areas and on low risk days, we don't know what happened today so I don't think now is the time.
> (In reply to petestack)
>
> Very sad, a tragic day. The details will emerge, but the question has to be asked, and is implied by the BBC in quoting the SAIS avalanche warning: Why were so many folk on the hill in obvious avalanche conditions?
>
> Very sad, a tragic day. The details will emerge, but the question has to be asked, and is implied by the BBC in quoting the SAIS avalanche warning: Why were so many folk on the hill in obvious avalanche conditions?
Cat 3 is quite normal. I'd certainly head out in a cat 3. It would certainly affect my route choice, but a cat 3 would definitly not stop me heading out. Also not the time to look for blame. Avalanches are all about risk, sometimes there is no fault, avalanches still happen even in historically 'safe' areas and on low risk days, we don't know what happened today so I don't think now is the time.
In reply to almost sane:
Seconded - in the absence of any information from people who were out on the hills today, speculation seems pointless. We can disect it and learn lessons later. Sadly it appears that the media are wasting no time in jumping to conclusions.
The weather and mountains bear us no malice: they are simply there. Sometimes, so are we.
>
> As for today: I know enough to realise that all we know for sure is three people have died and one person was injured. There's a huge amount of pain and grief out there, and I extend my condolences to all who have been affected by this tragedy.
> As for today: I know enough to realise that all we know for sure is three people have died and one person was injured. There's a huge amount of pain and grief out there, and I extend my condolences to all who have been affected by this tragedy.
Seconded - in the absence of any information from people who were out on the hills today, speculation seems pointless. We can disect it and learn lessons later. Sadly it appears that the media are wasting no time in jumping to conclusions.
The weather and mountains bear us no malice: they are simply there. Sometimes, so are we.
In reply to ebygomm: Ah - I hadn't realised he went by that name. I knew he climbed a lot in that area....
In reply to The Watch of Barrisdale:
Those would be east facing slopes. Do you mean Lairig Gartain?
> My own thoughts on the Buachaille (unless doing a route) would in the prevailing conditions to go up from Glen Etive as west facing slopes are much more open to scouring in the prevailing wind at the moment.
Those would be east facing slopes. Do you mean Lairig Gartain?
In reply to IainRUK:
Seconded. Cat 3 is fairly normal. We were out on Beinn Dothaidh today looking to do a buttress climb but encountered worse conditions than we expected, with persistent snow and wind early morning and beyond.Conditions were changing hour to hour.
Tragic news. My sincere condolences to family and friends.
> (In reply to kevin stephens)
> [...]
>
> Cat 3 is quite normal. I'd certainly head out in a cat 3. It would certainly affect my route choice, but a cat 3 would definitly not stop me heading out. Also not the time to look for blame. Avalanches are all about risk, sometimes there is no fault, avalanches still happen even in historically 'safe' areas and on low risk days, we don't know what happened today so I don't think now is the time.
> [...]
>
> Cat 3 is quite normal. I'd certainly head out in a cat 3. It would certainly affect my route choice, but a cat 3 would definitly not stop me heading out. Also not the time to look for blame. Avalanches are all about risk, sometimes there is no fault, avalanches still happen even in historically 'safe' areas and on low risk days, we don't know what happened today so I don't think now is the time.
Seconded. Cat 3 is fairly normal. We were out on Beinn Dothaidh today looking to do a buttress climb but encountered worse conditions than we expected, with persistent snow and wind early morning and beyond.Conditions were changing hour to hour.
Tragic news. My sincere condolences to family and friends.
In reply to SeanB:
The BBC site now has a video clip of Rescue Team Leader John Grieve talking about today and avalanche risks in general. So that's about as authoritative as you can get in this context.
The BBC site now has a video clip of Rescue Team Leader John Grieve talking about today and avalanche risks in general. So that's about as authoritative as you can get in this context.
My thoughts to family and friends of those involved.
In reply to dinkypen:
You do realise who Young Fox is ....
> (In reply to Young Fox)
>
> http://pistehors.com/news/ski/comments/081-glencoe-avalanche/ by a paramedic from the GMRT
>
> http://pistehors.com/news/ski/comments/081-glencoe-avalanche/ by a paramedic from the GMRT
You do realise who Young Fox is ....
Condolences to families and friends - sad day.
In reply to Dee:
No tell more?
> (In reply to dinkypen)
> [...]
>
> You do realise who Young Fox is ....
> [...]
>
> You do realise who Young Fox is ....
No tell more?
In reply to Jamie Hageman:
Dalness end, Jamie
Dalness end, Jamie
In reply to Young Fox:
Scotland on Sunday interview with John Grieve now online at:
http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/scotland/Rescuer-tells-of-horror-as.49...
Scotland on Sunday interview with John Grieve now online at:
http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/scotland/Rescuer-tells-of-horror-as.49...
In reply to stumc: I wasn't trying to be awkward with Dinkypen, just pointing out that the posting which she followed was by Davy Gunn, Young Fox, the paramedic she was referring to in her link.
In reply to jas wood: amazed at the difference a few miles can make we were on sw ridge of the cobbler and not too bad weather but mega deep powder around.
In reply to Young Fox:
Good on you mate - well earned. Phones over here have been going of the hook with press vultures wanting their 'authorative quote'.
> (In reply to Erik B)
>
> Hi Erik. I was at the sharp end of this today. Grim. The media reporting is total cock and the RAF press releases laughable. You are spot on in your comment that 3 hours can make a huge difference, and this was the case today. I am staggered at the shite in the news as it's all inaccurate. I will now get hammered and think of lovely ski trips to Tignes!
>
> Hi Erik. I was at the sharp end of this today. Grim. The media reporting is total cock and the RAF press releases laughable. You are spot on in your comment that 3 hours can make a huge difference, and this was the case today. I am staggered at the shite in the news as it's all inaccurate. I will now get hammered and think of lovely ski trips to Tignes!
Good on you mate - well earned. Phones over here have been going of the hook with press vultures wanting their 'authorative quote'.
R,I,P another sad day for us all, peace and love
In reply to Young Fox: total nightmare, so called heros in the climbing world, the ones who shout the loudest, climb the hardest grades...heros? NO.. guys like you are the REAL heros of scottish winter. Keep your chin up mate, you guys did what you could, that bastardin coire did it again.
In reply to DesperateDan:
A rather sombre day at the Clachaig, with the press bugging the office and urgent calls throughout the bar searching for friends and relatives.
This evening before Pure Malt started to play, we held a minute's silence in the bar out of respect for those who lost their lives.
A truly tragic event.
A rather sombre day at the Clachaig, with the press bugging the office and urgent calls throughout the bar searching for friends and relatives.
This evening before Pure Malt started to play, we held a minute's silence in the bar out of respect for those who lost their lives.
A truly tragic event.
In reply to DesperateDan: A very sad day, thoughts are with the friends and family
In reply to alex roddie: nice touch in the clach, be safe out there man
In reply to Erik B:
just heard last night at 6 when I got to work about the 3 fatalities after reading earlier in the afternoon on here about the incident, tragic and very sad thoughts are with all those involved and thier families.
Lets not be going out thinking 'uch it wont happen to us'
RIP
And as already mentioned well done to the GMRT and Seaking crews and all involved who from what I read have done a tremendous job, alot of respect for them guys.
just heard last night at 6 when I got to work about the 3 fatalities after reading earlier in the afternoon on here about the incident, tragic and very sad thoughts are with all those involved and thier families.
Lets not be going out thinking 'uch it wont happen to us'
RIP
And as already mentioned well done to the GMRT and Seaking crews and all involved who from what I read have done a tremendous job, alot of respect for them guys.
In reply to Dee:
Yes, the bloke pointed that out to me after I had posted, thanks!
> (In reply to stumc) I wasn't trying to be awkward with Dinkypen, just pointing out that the posting which she followed was by Davy Gunn, Young Fox, the paramedic she was referring to in her link.
Yes, the bloke pointed that out to me after I had posted, thanks!
In reply to Young Fox:
Brings back grim memories...
Brings back grim memories...
In reply to Dee: Ta, thought that was the case.
In reply to DesperateDan:
Oh, come with old Khayyam, and leave the Wise
To talk; one thing is certain, that Life flies;
One thing is certain, and the Rest is Lies;
The Flower that once has blown for ever dies.
Ah, make the most of what we yet may spend,
Before we too into the Dust descend;
Dust into Dust, and under Dust, to lie,
Sans Wine, sans Song, sans Singer, and---sans End!
One Moment in Annihilation's Waste,
One Moment, of the Well of Life to taste---
The Stars are setting and the Caravan
Starts for the Dawn of Nothing---Oh, make haste!
'Tis all a Chequer-board of Nights and Days
Where Destiny with Men for Pieces plays:
Hither and thither moves, and mates, and slays,
And one by one back in the Closet lays.
The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.
And that inverted Bowl we call The Sky,
Whereunder crawling coop't we live and die,
Lift not thy hands to *It* for help---for It
Rolls impotently on as Thou or I.
Oh, come with old Khayyam, and leave the Wise
To talk; one thing is certain, that Life flies;
One thing is certain, and the Rest is Lies;
The Flower that once has blown for ever dies.
Ah, make the most of what we yet may spend,
Before we too into the Dust descend;
Dust into Dust, and under Dust, to lie,
Sans Wine, sans Song, sans Singer, and---sans End!
One Moment in Annihilation's Waste,
One Moment, of the Well of Life to taste---
The Stars are setting and the Caravan
Starts for the Dawn of Nothing---Oh, make haste!
'Tis all a Chequer-board of Nights and Days
Where Destiny with Men for Pieces plays:
Hither and thither moves, and mates, and slays,
And one by one back in the Closet lays.
The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.
And that inverted Bowl we call The Sky,
Whereunder crawling coop't we live and die,
Lift not thy hands to *It* for help---for It
Rolls impotently on as Thou or I.
In reply to Only a hill:
I'm sure Clachaig staff have done what they can to help and empathise, and that is no doubt appreciated.
When a friend and I called in to the Clachaig on Friday morning and requested an updated avalanche forecast to be posted (I think Tuesday's was on the board), we were told none was available. Ensuring that this information is available might just help avoid tragedies like this w/e's. Whilst there are many more places where reports can be found, there will always be forgetful souls like myself who would value being able to review any changes before heading out.
I'm sure Clachaig staff have done what they can to help and empathise, and that is no doubt appreciated.
When a friend and I called in to the Clachaig on Friday morning and requested an updated avalanche forecast to be posted (I think Tuesday's was on the board), we were told none was available. Ensuring that this information is available might just help avoid tragedies like this w/e's. Whilst there are many more places where reports can be found, there will always be forgetful souls like myself who would value being able to review any changes before heading out.
In reply to Erik B:
Cheers Erik. No one here feels a hero. Just a bunch of mountaineers that live in a wee Glen who still like the hill. The press reports try and dig stuff out about safety and all that. I hate the holier than though shit.
Nice bunch of folk out for a wander and a few good folk from other parties on the hill who showed real courage and strength, which restores my faith in mountaineering and the human race.
I cant have a take on folk about avalanches as I like the old off piste which is a canny buisness for giving wee frights and showing me I know bugger all. Flypaper should be interesting !!!
Cheers Erik. No one here feels a hero. Just a bunch of mountaineers that live in a wee Glen who still like the hill. The press reports try and dig stuff out about safety and all that. I hate the holier than though shit.
Nice bunch of folk out for a wander and a few good folk from other parties on the hill who showed real courage and strength, which restores my faith in mountaineering and the human race.
I cant have a take on folk about avalanches as I like the old off piste which is a canny buisness for giving wee frights and showing me I know bugger all. Flypaper should be interesting !!!
In reply to DesperateDan:
Very sad. Names just been released..
Police today named the victims of the Glencoe avalanche as Eamonn Murphy, of
Carrickfergus, Co Antrim, his brother John Murphy from Portrush, Co Antrim, and
Brian Murray of Monifeith, Tayside.
mfl
Very sad. Names just been released..
Police today named the victims of the Glencoe avalanche as Eamonn Murphy, of
Carrickfergus, Co Antrim, his brother John Murphy from Portrush, Co Antrim, and
Brian Murray of Monifeith, Tayside.
mfl
In reply to fairweatherclimber:
I agree entirely, which is why I always try my best to post the latest SAIS forecast (and MWIS information as well) on the noticeboard as soon as it is updated each day. Unfortunately I was away on Friday so am not sure what happened there, but I do know that lately we have had a couple of spells where SAIS themselves have not updated the forecast for several days, meaning we have been unable to supply up to date information.
I think it is a credit to everyone who was at the Clachaig last night, customers and staff both, that the minute's silence was observed by everyone present and the applause at the end of it was heartfelt.
Rest in peace Eamonn Murphy, John Murphy and Brian Murray.
In reply to Erik B:
Cheers man, and I'd like you to know that I have learned from the events of the past week, particularly given the tragedy of yesterday, even if it doesn't show online!
> When a friend and I called in to the Clachaig on Friday morning and requested an updated avalanche forecast to be posted (I think Tuesday's was on the board), we were told none was available. Ensuring that this information is available might just help avoid tragedies like this w/e's. Whilst there are many more places where reports can be found, there will always be forgetful souls like myself who would value being able to review any changes before heading out.
I agree entirely, which is why I always try my best to post the latest SAIS forecast (and MWIS information as well) on the noticeboard as soon as it is updated each day. Unfortunately I was away on Friday so am not sure what happened there, but I do know that lately we have had a couple of spells where SAIS themselves have not updated the forecast for several days, meaning we have been unable to supply up to date information.
I think it is a credit to everyone who was at the Clachaig last night, customers and staff both, that the minute's silence was observed by everyone present and the applause at the end of it was heartfelt.
Rest in peace Eamonn Murphy, John Murphy and Brian Murray.
In reply to Erik B:
Cheers man, and I'd like you to know that I have learned from the events of the past week, particularly given the tragedy of yesterday, even if it doesn't show online!
In reply to Only a hill:
i think the avalanche forecast is a good yard stick to decide if an area is "worth a look" but not to be taken as fact due to the different factors involved in different locations or unexpected weather etc etc.
really sad news and sympathy to families and friends.
i think the avalanche forecast is a good yard stick to decide if an area is "worth a look" but not to be taken as fact due to the different factors involved in different locations or unexpected weather etc etc.
really sad news and sympathy to families and friends.
In reply to DesperateDan: very sad....been following the news and forum since yesterday....condolences to the family and friends.
A timely and tragic reminder of the risks that are there always..
RIP
A timely and tragic reminder of the risks that are there always..
RIP
In reply to Only a hill: maybe also post the local snow profiles?
.. although looking through the last few days, there seems to be almost as much variation at the same location within a valley from day to day as comparing glencoe and the gorms
http://www.sais.gov.uk/profile_search.asp?area_id=0&d_sdte=22&m_sdt...
the profile for Coire na Tulaich 22/01 http://www.sais.gov.uk/profile_flash.asp?id=793 doesn't look too stable with a dump of snow on top..
.. although looking through the last few days, there seems to be almost as much variation at the same location within a valley from day to day as comparing glencoe and the gorms
http://www.sais.gov.uk/profile_search.asp?area_id=0&d_sdte=22&m_sdt...
the profile for Coire na Tulaich 22/01 http://www.sais.gov.uk/profile_flash.asp?id=793 doesn't look too stable with a dump of snow on top..
In reply to Anonymous:
An interesting idea--I'm not sure how useful it would be for the reasons you mention, but I will certainly mention it to the bar manager and see if we can discuss the merits of doing so.
> (In reply to Only a hill) maybe also post the local snow profiles?
An interesting idea--I'm not sure how useful it would be for the reasons you mention, but I will certainly mention it to the bar manager and see if we can discuss the merits of doing so.
In reply to UKC:
Big deal!!!!!!!!!!! Just as bad as the rest of the media!
>
>
> UKC Staff Edit:
>
> Now on the UKC News Page:http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/older.html?month=01&year=2009#n45780
>
> UKC Staff Edit:
>
> Now on the UKC News Page:http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/older.html?month=01&year=2009#n45780
Big deal!!!!!!!!!!! Just as bad as the rest of the media!
In reply to DesperateDan: a sad day for our sport, May the rest in peace and happiness.
In reply to DesperateDan:
Condolences to the families and friends of the three men. Now and then our mountains charge a high toll for the priceless pleasures they give us.
Condolences to the families and friends of the three men. Now and then our mountains charge a high toll for the priceless pleasures they give us.
In reply to DesperateDan:
This has been a bad season for avalanches in the Alps as well
http://pistehors.com
This has been a bad season for avalanches in the Alps as well
http://pistehors.com
In reply to DesperateDan:
Can I just say, if it hasn't been said before, that the guy who "triggered" the avalanch (according to the reports) should not beat himself up over it.
Fate has a huge part to play in the mountains and there are things that are beyond our control.
Condolences to the families of those who were lost.
Can I just say, if it hasn't been said before, that the guy who "triggered" the avalanch (according to the reports) should not beat himself up over it.
Fate has a huge part to play in the mountains and there are things that are beyond our control.
Condolences to the families of those who were lost.
In reply to Removed User:
Apologies if this has been posted but the Telegraph have written an article too: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/4339027/Highlands-avalanche-Survivor...
My thoughts go out to all friends and familys involved.
Apologies if this has been posted but the Telegraph have written an article too: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/4339027/Highlands-avalanche-Survivor...
My thoughts go out to all friends and familys involved.
In reply to Removed User:
I have to agree. He no doubt will be feeling horrible about his involvement, but he should rest assured that no-one thinks bad of him, and that the people with him were there through choice.
> (In reply to Removed UserDesperateDan)
>
>
> Can I just say, if it hasn't been said before, that the guy who "triggered" the avalanch (according to the reports) should not beat himself up over it.
>
>
> Can I just say, if it hasn't been said before, that the guy who "triggered" the avalanch (according to the reports) should not beat himself up over it.
I have to agree. He no doubt will be feeling horrible about his involvement, but he should rest assured that no-one thinks bad of him, and that the people with him were there through choice.
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