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Hadrian's Wall, Falkirk

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 IanMcC 23 Jan 2003
According to sources on www.scottishclimbs.com Hadrian's Wall, Falkirk is to close down tomorrow.
So farewell to Scotland's Biggest and...Worst? wall.

Whatever it's shortcomings, it will be missed by climbers in Central Scotland.
Olga Heaneyl 23 Jan 2003
In reply to IanMcC:
To set the record straight, Hadrian's Wall last day of trading will be Sunday 26th Jan. This is due to a change of landlord who proposes to turn the arena into an indoor market. We would like to thank everyone who has used the facility over the last eight years for their support. Anyone who is interested in purchasing holds etc please contact the wall. Thanks again, Olga
EddieMcH 24 Jan 2003
In reply to IanMcC:
Sad to see it go, yes! Not so sad in one way, as I no longer have to listen to !"£$%^&*('s like you that don't know what they're talking about but just spout verbal diarrhoea. You wouldn't recognise a good wall if it fell on you.

If you'd been to the wall recently you would have seen a lot of happy climbers appreciating a wall with 90% of the routes replaced in the last year, unsurpassed facilities for leading including a 15M full tower traverse and dry tooling routes that were a first in Scotland and could be led.

If you could have seen the kids who climb regularly at the wall breaking their hearts tonight even you might have realised how much the wall meant to those who work and climb there. Ignorance is ignorance and I've said my peace and I'll not waste one more breath on egits like you.
Olga Heaney 24 Jan 2003
In reply to EddieMcH: Thanks for all your kind support Eddie, I only wish you had got involved in the wall years ago. I heard about the kids crying their eyes out last night and I felt so helpless. We'll just have to make sure they have a great day tomorrow during the Saturday club. If Ian McCabe is of the opinion that Hadrians Walls is the worst wall in Scotland I wonder why he kept coming back to climb there over the years. Strange. Anyway I'm a bit like you and cant be bothered wasting my breath on ignorance. Cheers again Eddie for all you've done. Olga
 yer maw 24 Jan 2003
In reply to EddieMcH: you were obviously emotionally attached to the effort and work you put it in.

I agree the wall was useful for introducing climbing to kids (though far from perfect), but I personally did find it to be the worst wall I have ever visited as the place was very drab. the ropes are 18mm thick which was a concern going over the overhanging wall, which is far from being unsurpassed!

have you been to another wall recently? e.g. glasgow and alien are chocablock because they provide good climbing facilities in a good environment.

however McCabe did state that it will still be missed!

nonetheless it is pretty hard these days not to have a climbing wall which isn't a success! so perhaps you should keep the holds and panels and seek somewhere else within the locality which is desperate for a decent indoor climbing facility similar to the above two but central.

there is a demand!
EddieMcH 24 Jan 2003
In reply to yer maw: Yes, I'm emotionally attached to the wall as are quite a few other people who now find a large part of their week empty through it's loss.

Nobody said the wall was perfect, but most of the constraints came from the under investment which came through the insecurity of knowing you could be tossed out any day of the week, as has just happened. Yes we were aware of the short falls that could have been resolved through investment of capital but the question was who was going to benefit from it all, the wall or the land lord once we were chucked out.

What hurts me most is people looking at the cosmetics only and ignoring key factors that were introduced to improve the "climbing" experience. 1. In the last year 90% of the routes had been changed, a massive task considering the scale of the wall; carried out principally by Olga;
2. Dry tooling was introduced, a feature enjoyed by many and unique in Scotland.
3. Efforts were made to brighten the place, The Matterhorn painted on the front sports wall for example and re-paints of various surfaces all over the place. Again the previous lease holder spent minimal money on the structure and to do more ourselves would have been a waste of investment.
4. With regards the thickened ropes no rope was 18mm thick but I accept that some ropes had thickened over time. This was due to the recycling of rope from the higher walls to the lower walls. This had partially been addressed as new rope was introduced in the training area and elsewhere recently, however the cost would have been prohibitive to throw out all the existing rope and some of the older stuff was left in. Acccepted that some of it didn't handle great but it was safe and it's a small issue to nit pick on.

I said the leading was unsurpassed so please don't misquote me.

Now can you see why I'm running short of breath going over the same old ground. Constraints existed, that's the bottom line. Alien Rock and Glasgow are choc a block because they are situated in the two largest population centres in Scotland(duh!) and Alien rock still has concession times for off peak periods. Considering Alien Rock is less than a third of the size of Hadrian's what does that tell you. If you think there's a major gap in the market and want to set up a wall in Falkirk pop in and buy some panels, holds and rope. Show us how it's done, by all means. See the following thread for contact numbers or pop in Sunday and talk over details with Paul.

http://www.ukclimbing.com/caff/forums/t.php?n=34905
Removed User 24 Jan 2003
In reply to IanMcC:

It's a great shame it's closing. A great venue spoiled by the initial design.

I was there on the very first night it opened and actually set one of the routes. I went back a few more times but never enjoyed myself much and never felt that the place was well designed for training either. It's so frustrating to think that if the original owner had taken more advice rather than regarding the climbing establishment as some sort of mafia he could have had Britain's best wall for pretty much the same price.

 Martin W 24 Jan 2003
In reply to EddieMcH:

> ... Alien rock still has concession times for off peak periods. Considering Alien Rock is less than a third of the size of Hadrian's what does that tell you.

I'm not sure what you believe it should tell us. It seems fairly standard practise for commercial recreational facilities to be cheaper outside peak hours. Most health clubs, gyms and swimming pools operate that way.

Alien Rock is busy and sometimes dare I say it overcrowded at peak periods. I don't think I ever saw more than half a dozen pairs of climbers outside of the beginner's area at Hadrian's Wall, despite the size of the place - and the fact that for many AR users eg those coming from the south side of Edinburgh, it's as easy to get to Falkirk as it is to Leith. What does that tell you?

I do think the loss of Hadrian's Wall is a shame - I'd love to have a realistic alternative to AR, and I'm not convinced that Ratho is going to be that. However I also think that the lack of development of HW while it was operating was a shame. You have indicated that there were insurmountable reasons for that lack of investment, but it was still a shame, and I think it was one of the reasons it didn't get the traffic it might have done. And if, as Eric9Points suggests, the original proprietor set the place going on the wrong footing then that's even more of a shame.

There's no doubt in my mind that the staff at HW are/were friendly, enthusiastic and committed to making the best of the place within the constraints you've outlined. Now that Ratho is actively recruiting, perhaps we can hope to see some of the HW staff taking those qualities there?
steve 24 Jan 2003
In reply to IanMcC:
In my humble opinion Ibrox wall is the best wall in scotland. Have you seen the new overhanging wall? And the atmosphere is great there as well.

Be interesting to see what Ratho is like - just hope they scan tick to schedule now they have sorted out Tarmac and the Local Authority.
smac 24 Jan 2003
It's sad to hear about any wall having to close. Having never been to Hadrian's I can't comment on the quality but it's a bit rough having a go at the place in it's final days.
And just spare a thought for us poor sods in Aberdeen who have nothing better than a glorified cupboard for a wall..
OP IanMcC 24 Jan 2003
In reply to EddieMcH:

I don't think I said anything in the original post that was "verbal diarrhoea" or which justifies you describing me as an "edgit". I have taken dozens (Hundreds?) of kids to Hadrian's over the years since it opened to introduce them to climbing, and have always found Olga, Paul and Elaine pleasant and helpful.
Rather than snarling at one another, central belt climbers should get their act together and become involved in building a new, and better wall.
Cheers

Ian

OP IanMcC 24 Jan 2003
In reply to Olga Heaney:
Olga,
I've always thought the beginners' room was a really good facility, most particularly because it gave the opportunity to integrate the belaying and "multi-pitch" skills necessary in outdoor climbing into what novices were learning.
On reflection the tone of my initial posting may have been too flippant. I apologise if it caused you personal offence: as I wrote in the post to Eddie, I have had nothing but encouragement and support from you and the other staff.
I hope things pan out well for you.

Cheers

Ian
Anonymous 26 Jan 2003
In reply to IanMcC:

I believe the so called "verbal diarrhoea" is meant to be a reference to my post on Scottish Climbs. After someone else expressed the same opinion Ed must have lost the plot and decided to take it out on you!
Arnaud 27 Jan 2003
In reply to Olga Heaney:

Hi Olga,

Shame about the wall! I am pretty much emotionally attatched to the place, since I used to climb there at least twice a week in autumn 95 (French guy? climbing in lycras, with a Scottish lad called Tom?). I used to live across the football pitches from it and it was a nice way to spend the evenings. And at the time, it was pretty cutting edge!
Anyway, pretty sorry about the decision as I'm sure you all are. Say Hi to Martin and Ian if you're still in touch.

Arnaud.-
PS. And it was pretty cool to be able to pop for a pint between 2 climbs!
fullytrainedlemming 27 Jan 2003
In reply to Arnaud: I thought the place was pretty cool an a lot better than many small walls in UK. I was in a team from The Walls in Chester against Hadrians wall team where they came down an competed against us (we won!!) then we went up there an competed at their wall (we won again!!) was a great trip though as we went up the night before an they put on a party in the wall bar which got quite loud then we all slept in the wall an competed very hung over the next day - strangly though hadrians lot werent too hung over only us !!! Anyway we all thought the place was pretty good an better than the wall we had at the time. Shame to see it go i think. Anywhere to train is better than nowhere.
Olga Heaney 27 Jan 2003
In reply to Arnaud: Hi Arnaud, Good to hear from you again. It is sad to see the wall go especially for me as I had been there for eight years. Ironically the wall was getting very popular lately with the new dry tooling facility we had and also the multi pitching had really taken off. Unfortunately there are still people who have been saying negative stuff possibly basing their opinions on the wall from climbing there five or six years ago but it had changed quite a lot in this last couple of years. The place was mobbed this weekend with climbers doing their favourite routes for the last time and so many of them came up to me (some very upset) saying how much the place will be missed and that they always had support for us. I will pass on your regards to Ian Kyle and Martin but I have not seen them for a while. I do bump into Tom from time to time, I met him one very hot day in September on the Etive Slabs when I was climbing Hammer. Thanks again for your kind words, Olga.
 Chris McDaid 27 Jan 2003
In reply to Olga Heaney:
Olga. Just a thought. As already has been mentioned, Ratho is actively recruiting. Maybe yourself & Paul should find out more and maybe apply. People like yourself & Paul shouldn't be lost to youngsters wanting to take up the sport. Hopefully see you tomorrow or Thursday.
piper bob 27 Jan 2003
In reply to IanMcC: Sorry to hear about the closure of Hadrians Wall. However the newest wall in Scotland, will be opening soon, towards the end of Febuary in Dundee. I was in earlier today speaking to Ian & Simon and things are on track. The wall is looking good with loads of routes that have been set by April Marr from AR, the bouldering wall is now almost finished. Good luck to the guys when it opens.
almost sane 28 Jan 2003
In reply to Paul, Elaine, Olga, Eddie:

What a bummer!
It was an ugly looking place,but I know of no other climbing wall with such scope for leading, and indeed with routes which could only be done as multi-pitch leads!

And the ability to swallow large numbers of people without getting crowded.

A loss.
Edward Devlin 29 Jan 2003
Well, All I can say is we will all miss it a lot - but we would like to say thanks to Elaine, Paul, Olga, Colin and all other staff, for their friendly welcome every week.

Can I also wish them all the best in the next adventure....

Cheers,

David, Andrew and Edward xx
Ralph 30 Jan 2003
I would imagine that all regular and occasional (that's me!) indoor climbers will sorely miss Hadrian's and what it had to offer, not only the sheer size of the place, but also the friendly and approachable staff.

In particular I found Olga to be one of the most patient and trusting persons to be with, having had the pleasure of her teachings as did my two sons.

I hope those who know her as well as I do will continue to follow her 'upward' progress in local and hopefully national competitions where she has already established herself as one of the leading female climbers.

Thanks to all those who have already expressed their good wishes to her and her colleagues in this forum, I know she greatly appreciates it...... and how do i know ?

..... well she happens to be my sister
Sadie 31 Jan 2003
In reply to IanMcC: Hadrian's wall may not have been purpose built, but the staff were fantastic and Olga must be the best instructor in Scotland. She must have taught hundreds of people to climb. If Ratho, alien rock etc have any sense she will soon be instructing (and instructing wannnabe instructors) again.
onefivenine 31 Jan 2003
In reply to IanMcC:
I only had the opportunity to visit HW once (not so long ago) due to its untimely demise. It was a cold and un-natural experience, however I'm sure I would have returned had the opportunity existed.

The benefit of technical training was the main selling point.
OP IanMcC 01 Feb 2003
In reply to Sadie:
Couldn't agree more. As I've tried to point out several times, the shortcomings of HW were certainly NOT related to the talent and enthusiasm of the staff.
if (i'm guessing) you are sadie renwick, your own achievements prove your point.
Andy 04 Feb 2003
Just like to stick my tuppenceworth in:

Who cares what the building looks like, personally I went to climb, not to look at the decor.
In my humble opinion all the staff did a fantastic job, providing a fantastic facility. I'll miss my usual Wednesday night session....John too.

I'm totally gutted..........no devasated!!

Gone to commit suicide

Andy
Gareth Parry 07 Feb 2003
In reply to IanMcC:

Hi Olga

Can you please tell me how i can get in touch with the walls owner i would like to purchase any matting. Gaz
Olga Heaney 08 Feb 2003
Hi Gaz, I have emailed you some phone numbers. Cheers Olga
Malcolm 09 Feb 2003
In reply to IanMcC: How did you figure Hadrian's wall was the worst in Scotland?
The wall ran a "climbing academy" on a saturday afternoon which taught kids to lead,(placing natural gear), multi-pitch, dry-tool and do loads of other stuff that no other wall in Scotland taught. Thanks to Paul, Elaine, and Olga these kids can now go on to outdoor climbing with the proper technical knowledge of ropework, etc. (OK, there is no substitute for outdoors experience, but Paul managed to organise outdoor trips to Rosyth Quarry and other places to teach us how to lead outdoors).
The only thing I ever learned from other walls was how to tie on and belay on a top-rope - useless unless all you want to do for the rest of your climbing life is climb indoors.
Hadrians wall also produced some of the best BRYCS competitors in Scottish climbing - more proof of how good the teaching was.
Thanks again, Paul, Elaine, and Olga for all the work you put into the academy - you and your wall will be greatly missed.
Olga 09 Feb 2003
Thanks Malcolm. Fortunately there has been more positive things said than negative but what you said hits the nail right on the head and goes to show just how unique a place Hadrians was. Hopefully I'll bump into you on the crags one day. Thanks again for your kind words and support. Olga

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