UKC

At approximately 9am on Sunday while climbing at Hobsons Moore (Manchester), a small dog fell into the quarry only yards from where we were setting up. The dog sadly died shortly after impact while being carried to the owners car.

I was later informed that this also happened last week but with a happier ending.

Dog owners may be advised to keep their dogs on a lead around the top of the quarry, climbers wear your helmets.

In reply to tommakin:

My next door neighbours dog fell and died at Blackrocks.

With our two I always walk over to the edge with them and show them. Hoping that they will then remember that there are drops about. Not sure if it works but they haven't fallen yet and they dont seem to run around as madly as they do on a normal field.

In reply to idiotproof: I took Beans-dog to Black Rocks for the first time a couple of weeks ago. He did seem to be impressed by the drop and didn't go too close, which was nice. Didn't trust him off his lead though, although Rosie-dog was off hers, as she is a sensible old thing with a fear of edges.

In reply to tommakin: I was at Hobson when an unseen (but not unheard) dog chased a sheep over the edge. Fortunately it was at the far right hand end and so the sheep landed on the ledge at half height. But - alas it was cragfast and no amount of scaring it would make it jump the 10ft to safety. We left it there but it must have been ok, because there was no rotting corpse there next time I came.

It is probably worth reminding dog owners that farmers have the right to shoot dogs they suspect of chasing sheep, especially if they are off the lead. I saw a couple of dogs trotting happily next to their owners off the lead in a field of sheep at Bamford the other week. These would be prime targets for a grudging farmer regardless of the fact the dogs were under control. Be aware!

In reply to Jon Dittman:

Problems with climber's dogs in N Wales: http://www.northwalesbouldering.com/newsitem.asp?nsid=403

"The tenant farmer has complained about the number of dogs that people have been bringing up to the [Sheep Pen] boulders. The spring time is an especially sensitive time for stock management, there are a lot of young lambs around and it easy to see how the situation could turn nasty with so many dogs running around. So this is a formal request that people do not take dogs up to mountain valley bouldering venues such as Sheep Pen."

In reply to tommakin:

I nearly saw a similar incident at Dovestones Edge yesterday - a large dog bounded over to say hello as I was belaying, put the brakes on, skidded on the loose stuff and only just managed to stop before going over.

I don't think a helmet would have helped much with that one.

In reply to tommakin:

I wonder if it was called Parker

Read the bottom of this and tell me if you think it is a slight mistake with the numbers quoted, surely not!!

http://www.ourdogs.co.uk/News/2007/Nov2007/News161107/sheep.htm

In reply to chickenpox:

No, the £20,000 stated as maximum fine sounds correct.

In reply to winhill: That exact figure is repeated everywhere so probably comes from one source. It's may be right, I don't know, but it's suprising how widely quoted a incorrect figure can be. I'd have thought it would be an order of magnitude lower, but have no facts.

The wife was recently working on an issue and read that Snowdonia NPA spend £45m a year on controlling Rhodidendrons (sp) in the park, this is repeated in many official documents, even guys I know who have worked for the park reckon this figure is a good few orders of magnitude out. I wouldn't be suprised if a similar mistake has happened here.

In reply to winhill: Do you not think 24,000 sheep per year could be slightly more than are actually killed by dogs? Unless I'm having a mental block that would mean (without grabbing a calculator) around 70 per day? No? have I got my math wrong there, anyway, seems rather high!

In reply to davidbeynon:

And you didn't help it? Shame on you!

Dovestones is becoming dog-shit paradise. It stinks in the warm weather because dog owners package up the shit in plastic bags, then leave it all there to ferment.

Kill the dog and if the owner protest, push them over as well!

In reply to Chris Tan Ver. LI - On the Bog: Nice to see the milk of human kindness flowing freely...

In reply to Chris Tan Ver. LI - On the Bog: Indeed, i had a minor set to with some medics from Nottingham at burbage south boulders who had bagged up the crap from their doberman (who was of course running around without a lead when there were several babies crawling about on the ground) and then stuffed it in a crack on the picnic block (by poc block).

They even had the audacity to behave as if I was out of order by pointing out the error of their ways.

In reply to Anonymous:

Bagging and leaving dog shit is out of order, but a dog off the lead around kids is fine, well it is for most dogs.

In reply to wayno265:

I was actually going to suggest stir frying the dog and using the owner as replacement body parts but

1. You never know what the a-hole is feeding his/her dog.

2. No point trying to recycle sh!T-heads!

Now breathe, relax and clean your shoes!

In reply to Chris Tan Ver. LI - On the Bog: Glad to see you've thought it through!

In reply to wayno265:

OK - I'll share!

I must admit, it did make me smile when a dog owner scooped up some - eeeeer! Slightly soggy bits with a Tesco's carrier bag, only to discover their bags have breathing holes in the bottom!!!

In reply to Chris Tan Ver. LI - On the Bog:

What an odd sense of humour you must have.

In reply to duncan: I'm also mentioning that it isnt just lambs that are at risk at the moment. Ground nesting birds will be nest-building and breeding at the moment. Dogs running through heathland and moorland greatly disturb these birds.

In reply to Bulls Crack:

With an owner as thick as that, I pity the dog!

In reply to Chris Tan Ver. LI - On the Bog:

Strange to see you speculating about people being thick when you come across as plainly bonkers as well as quite thick too.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Never been sane since year dot but I do what I can, with thankfully no help from the NHS.

In reply to Anonymous: i trust you removed said shite if you were so offended..?

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

I think you have to meet Chris to really appreciate his zany sense of humour :0)

In reply to the inspiral carpet:

Spoil sport! I was going to post a Korean recipie for dog
































owners!

What the hell!

Pickle in Kimchee and leave for 2 years in the cellar.

If still moving after that, cut down on the mushrooms and Tartan Extreme DVDs.

In reply to tommakin:


Do you think a helmet would be much protection from impact by a falling dog? I'd doubt it myself, especially the bigger ones.

In reply to Chris Tan Ver. LI - On the Bog:

1. It was bigger than me*.
2. I don't believe in dropping large** carnivores on my climbing partners.

*Bigger teeth anyway.
**Small ones are fine.

In reply to davidbeynon: I think you may all be missing the point to this post, shame (!!!)

In reply to tommakin: Ahh, another post about a dog, turns into another dog hating thread.

Personally I have come across more human shit, piss, and bog roll stuffed into every orifice than I have dog shit. I have also come across more unfreindly climbers than I have an unfreindly or misbehaved dog!

In reply to andyyyy:

Dogs do what they do! However, irresponsible owners have a choice!

In reply to Chris Tan Ver. LI - Irresponsible climbers also have a choice, and as you say dogs do what they do.

I'll still maintain that there is more shit and bog roll rubbish left behind by climbers than dogs. I dont remember the last time I saw a dog wiping its arse with a nice piece of Andrex, whilst eating a bag of crisps, and then discarding the rubbish.

Cheers

Andy

In reply to tommakin:

Well why the f%&§ did they bring it back for a second go?

In reply to psd:
LOL, testing a retractable dog lead?
Clearly it failed

In reply to andyyyy:


You were looking the other way.

In reply to RockAngel:

Agree with most of the chat re sheep/lambs, children, dog mess, safety etc and one other point re ground nesting birds. There is now strong evidence that ground nesting birds will not nest, and may abandon nests due simply to the presence of dogs being walked EVEN when they ARE on a lead.

Might I be controversial and suggest climbers show good practise and don't take dogs to the moors at all during the bird breeding season (begining of March to end of July)?

Apologies for one more thing. I am surprised at the number of climbers who think stuff like orange peel and banana skins are acceptable items to leave at the bottom of a crag or thrown in some bushes. They are not - they take ages to break down. Nothing, whether organic or not should ever be dumped. This goes for cigarette ends too. I'd suggest that our bottom line should always be to NEVER LEAVE ANYTHING at or around a crag whether or not you think it might break down quickly.

Apologies for preaching on a Friday.

In reply to tomny:

What is this evidence?

How did they control for the prescence people themselves?

Got any links to peer reviewed studies?

I very much doubt whether dogs on a trail (on the lead or not) affect bird survival anymore than people on the trails do. Afterall birds are clearly scared of both species.

In reply to IainRUK:

There isn't any, he clearly made it up.

In reply to IainRUK:

If the dogs are just running on the trail then I'd be suprised if they create more disturbance than just runners themselves?

Mine tends to wander a bit so I generally don't take it on to the moors in the breeding season. I hate running with a dog on the lead - they are just too thick for this to be any good.

cheers
mark

In reply to Mark Westerman: Ours tend to stay closish when running, all we have to say is heel. But living where we live we don't run on moors much. After saying heel they'll run as close as being on the lead anyway, just much safer. You feel Bella's chin banging on your heel as you run, poor dog, but I think she's trying to make a point..but they certainly know when they have to stay near us and when they can run over the hills.

In reply to IainRUK:

This paper indexes current research and highlights areas fo further research:

http://naturalengland.etraderstores.com/NaturalEnglandShop/Product.aspx?Pro...

You are partially correct in that there is a lot of supposition regarding the effect of dogs and there is plenty of anecdotal evidence of varying quality. Ranging dogs do undoubtedly disturb nesting birds but the extent to which this effects nesting success needs further research.

The British Trust for Ornithology are currently extending their breeding bird survey to cover open access land.

In reply to Bulls Crack: Cheers for that, just read very quickly the Lord et al 2001 paper from NZ. Basically compared approaching with a dog on the lead and running without and walking on nesting, looking at flushing distance and time spent away from the nest. However they didn't (which they acknowledge) record this affect on egg survival. But dogs on lead flushed birds from a similar distance to running, a much lower distance when walking, and time spent away from the nest was ~300 seconds compared to ~200 seconds when the dog was present. However they'd then need to look at survival before banning dogs because runners may need to be banned as well.

Anyway as an aside. in NZ you can send your dog on avian avoidance lessons, if he/she passes a test they are allowed into some sections of the Bush.

In reply to tomny:



Or rather, dont take them out to the crag at all ever. They f*ck me right off.

In reply to Si dH:

Well, that's it then - pass a law now.

In reply to Si dH:

Burning you off on boulder problems?

In reply to Bulls Crack:

Teak Pan Kaou Youk!

In reply to the inspiral carpet:

"Spoil sport! I was going to post a Korean recipie for dog"

These Korean meatballs really are the dog's B*ll*cks!!!

In reply to Toreador: no he didnt.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/science/article2388323.ece

In reply to RockAngel: Interesting. Aussie context, but probably applicable here.

I do think climbers should be wary on asking for dog bans due to conservation purposes. You only have to look at well climbed crag and a poorly climbed crag to understand that climbing has a huge impact on local biodiversity. The amount of fauna and flora is seriously impacted on by climbing. Almost any activity in the outdoors does, it's unavoidable.

If we are going to be so extreme as to ban dogs in the hills for 4 months of the year then I think the climbing community should look out.

I do worry that dog owners in the outdoors are not represented, the BMC, understandably, doesn't take account of dog owners who are members really.

The CRoW act was a terrible piece of legislation for dog owners, done in London with little idea of what it's like on the hills.

In reply to RockAngel: I can understand this to a point, but how do they explain the birds in my garden not bothered at all about my two dogs, they still come to the feeders whether the dogs are in the garden or not.

In reply to Chris Tan Ver. LI - On the Bog: kill the owner not the dog

In reply to tommakin:

Have we attributed blame on the Hobson's incident yet? Dodgy belay? Pawlaces undone? Not wearing helmet?