UKC

This post isn't about willy waving, but about enjoyment.

When I first started climbing I was in awe of people who could lead VS, thinking I could never do that!

Now that I've been leading VS and feeling more comfy with it, I've been enjoying my climbing much, much more.

Now, I've been obssessed with climbing since day 1 and didn't think it possible to become to enjoy it even more than I did. But, with every VS lead I do, I get more and more of a buzz/high and feel bloody great.

Now, I'd still love to get on a nice big long mountain V.Diff/Sev and really enjoy it. But I'm getting really into the technicalities and problem solving of climbing harder, it's adding a whole new element for me (and I know VS is punterish, but it's a big milestone for me cos I'm feeble and weak, injury ridden, with crap technique, no natural skills and a shakey head for leading, lol!)

I'm even begin to think that once I'm fully happy and led more VS's and some more mountain VS's, that I might even contemplate an HVS (and I always said once I led VS I'd be happy with that)

So, for all you folk who climb harder than VS, have you found that as you've progressed through the grades, you have enjoyed your climbing more and more and more?

Also, does anyone find that there seems to be a big jump between VS and HVS, but less of a jump between HVS and E1?

In reply to SonyaD:

climbing hard is like the icing on the cake....getting to climb anything at all is the cake itself.

mmm cake.....

In reply to SonyaD:

Biggest jump is always the next grade up!

In reply to SonyaD:


Awesome. Best not to set yourself limits you don't need! Any grade is just an arbitrary point on a scale. Once you understand also that harder does not mean more dangerous (in fact in many cases it means the opposite) the world opens up!


YES!


Yes, but I'm not sure how much was real and how much just mental. I think the main barrier to overcome is the possibility of failure - once you acccept you might not get up something the grade becomes less of a barrier and more of a useful guide.

At the end of the day a route that has 60m of ascent has 60m of ascent no matter what the grade and you still have to expend a certain amount of energy getting up it. As grade increases you may have to do more fancy technical stuff and you may need stronger fingers but it's not necessarily a whole lot harder. You can finish a thrutchy VS chimneying / jamming route a lot more physically battered than an E2 face climb. That's important to remember as well ... higher grade doesn't necessarily mean you have to be physically stronger to do it.

In reply to quadmyre: That's a really good point. I suppose once you start climbing at your limit at the time, then it's good to find routes that are suited to you physically (as well as trying the ones that arn't to be well rounded of course, if you so wish)

I've never yet failed on a lead yet, and had to rest on gear or lower off but I guess if I get to the point where I'm pushing it more, then it's gonna happen at some point. Very exciting!

Climbing is f*cking brilliant :oD

In reply to Morgan Woods: No mention of cake please, I've just ran 6miles and having salad for lunch. <dreams of cake>

In reply to SonyaD: This may or may not be relevant… but I find the grades themselves the hardest thing to tackle …

For example ..when I was in America back when I was a nipper and new to the game 5.10 or 5.11 meant nothing to me ..so I climbed it no problem even though this was a few grades harder than what I had climbed in the UK.

I came home and learnt the trade a little more climbing with my pals slowly up to E3 and then settled there really, with the odd exception when feeling brave.

Then I went out to Oz …again 26, 27,28 ect meant nothing to me so I picked a number and did it …slowly working up to the odd 28

Again this was above my usual grade

Then I came home and got spanked on an E4 ..not because it was hard ..but because it was E4 and well I was only doing E3’s normally ..so this one had to be harder…

So if you can forget the grade and look at the line ..then think ..yea I can do that ..then you are half way there.

After all some VS’s look and feel desperate to me ..

In reply to SonyaD:

I'm dreaming of being able to run 6 miles - bloody wonky leg!

In reply to SonyaD: if you want to climb harder you will have to fail. period. as your grade increases your time, on routes, for decision making typically decreases. you will therefore have to make quick decisions, sometimes based on what you see, sometimes based on instinct and sometimes trusting to luck. invariably you will get it wrong sometimes but when you get it right, especially when youre thinking its all over, its ace!

In reply to SonyaD: the way i see it is rather than worrying to much about the level you are at its better to think if im better there is a greater choice off routes and crags to climb at and have adventures on! i think alot of people worry about the grade which is good to know but some of the best climbing experiences i have had have been on climbs i know nothing about. i have just told myself i can climb that and do it. but yes as i have progressed through the grades i have enjoyed climbing more and more because there are more routes for me to try.

In reply to mux: this man is spot on: in the UK we are so cowed by grades. how many people have over-performed simply because they didnt know the grade of what they were on? lots.

In reply to ksjs: so what have you got planned for the weekend in the lakes then K ?

you been to reecastle ... I think you would like it there

In reply to ksjs: lol ..I did a pitch of E6 when I got lost on Yellow wall ...

only when in the pub with guide book and pint in hand did I realise. I then cacked my pants

In reply to SonyaD:

>Also, does anyone find that there seems to be a big jump between VS and HVS,

Sometimes, but then sometimes they are just a lot of hardish VS moves one after the other with no rests in between, like on Cemetery Gates. Each move on there is little more than good VS;

http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/c.php?i=3202

In reply to SonyaD:
Interesting question - Do you enjoy climbing hard ?

I like the satisfaction I get from having climbed at my limit, and such routes are certainly memorable after the event. I also like the fact that my limit is a bit higher than it once was, which means that there are more routes, and a wider variety of routes, I can enjoy comfortably.

But I do sometmes wonder whether my reluctance to push myself out of my comfort zone is due to the fact that I don't really enjoy climbing when I'm close to my limit. On some days I'm just happy cruising around, enjoying the flow, without the fear of failure

In reply to SonyaD: In answer to your question, Yes. Now you are leading VS's you will find VD's etc enjoyable but in terms of a physical and mental challenge they just don't cut it anymore. To get that buzz you need to be on VS's. In time, once you progress you will find the same will happen to VS's. What was once a serious under taking will become a pleasant stroll and you will need to venture into the low E grades to find that same buzz again. I can only suppose it continues into the mid E grades as well, I've still to find out.

In reply to ksjs:

I started out climbing V Diffs and had it in my head that I should then start ticking S then VS etc. I was convinced that there was some kind of apprencticeship to serve. This was until I climbed with a particularly enlightened individual whose philosophy was, "Look at it, like it? Climb it!". By getting obsessed with grades there is the danger that you mentally plan to fail "Oooh, that's HVS I only lead S". Get on it and have a go has been my mantra since.

In reply to SonyaD: i love the next grade or rather i love getting better. partly its because its good to get better at something i put time and effort into but also because, as you progress, the positions, moves and intensity all seem to get amplified. though you are always climbing against yourself and those things are therefore relative: one mans E7 onsight is anothers VS.

you also open up more venues to yourself and its very cool to go back to somewhere youve been going to for a while and get on something you looked at in awe not that long ago.

as for grade jump, its hard to generalise but, as Mux points out, much of it is in our heads. i think its more useful to think of it as a spectrum with some arbitrary points on it. i often think routes that are high in their grade can seem harder than routes that are low in the next grade up. to progress, i need a base from which to build so i wouldnt really be backing myself if i tried to go direct from VS to E1 without having done a reasonable number of HVSs. this is though a personal approach and, at lower grades, you may find progress is quick.

get on some HVSs!

In reply to mux: You're right. And I do both of those things. I always tend to climb lines that I like the look of. If I don't like the look of a route, I tend not to bother, no matter what the grade. But I also see lines that look fab but am put off by the harder grade.

There's an HVS local to me that looks amazing. Maybe at the end of the summer when I'm even more confident at VS (I'm def one for consolidating, always have been)

In reply to mux: my weekend plans have gone slightly awry due to weather plus i am at a wedding tomorrow evening so scrubbing up may be required. the Bowderstone may be a rain safe and quick option...

i was at Reecastle a couple of years ago and am very keen to go back. what you up to?

In reply to mux: this is a pretty high end version of the "ive just climbed my hardest route ever cos i didnt know what i was on" story! good work. obviously you need to do more E6s on Yellow Wall (after you Sir...)!

In reply to ksjs and everyone: This is all fascinating to me! Even just being able to lead VS opens up so much more.

But (there's always a but right, lol!) I find that on HVS I struggle physically on around 50% of them and won't get up cleanly on second, so for me I'm not sure if it ALL mental, as physically I find a lot of them really strenuous. Maybe that doesn't matter though? Maybe I should find ones that are well protected so that if I did happen to pick one of the 50% that I'd normally fail on second, then I wouldn't fall far, or could rest on the gear, so failure wouldn't mean pain, lol!

In reply to ksjs: trust me if I would have known I wouldn't have been there ...though trying the first pitch has sat in the back of my head for a while now!

off to NW on sunday and might have a third party member free if your keen...

not sure where but we were thinking maybe the grochan if dry - to bail to the slate if it rains a bit.

In reply to es: Bugger! I've been VERY lazy with my running of late, last time I did a 10k was weeks ago and the last time I did a 10k before that was last summer <hangs head in shame> So, the last mile did kinda drag on a bit, but I'm quite chuffed as I normally run off road and I did this 6miler on roads. My back protested a little, but feels fine now so everything is obv much, much stronger than it used to be, hurrah!

In reply to SonyaD: there you go ..now your thinking ..

or you could pick a slabby one that was less physical but more mental ..

In reply to SonyaD:

Yes.


Yes.

In reply to SonyaD: good on ya lass..I girl after my own heart ..get on the steep stuff ..

look the worst that could happen is that you sit on a bit of kit ....

we have all done it ...

good luck

In reply to SonyaD: I think you're the person I asked the other day, "are you eyeing up poacher?", at logie head. I'm not a stalker, honest, but my climbing partner is and he told me it was you (-;. Anyway, after you finished on poacher I led it for the first time, my first VS.
Now, with that in mind, what/where should I go for my next VS? I'm thinking centre at cummingston as I've seconded it a couple of times.

In reply to mux: Yeah, I *am* going to wait until I've led a good few more VS's though (er I've only actually led 9 so for, and only one at 5a) and it took me a long time to get my head around trying my 1st VS, until one day I just decided to try and see if I could. So, the way my head seems to work re climbing, is I'll do VS until they seem ok (obv you're always gonna get spanked from time to time) esp 5a ones, then one day I'll just decide, today is the day and will do it. Not quite ready yet, but the fact that I'm thinking about it, means I WILL go for it at some point. The way things seem to have worked is that I've moved up one grade per summer, always trying a harder grade towards the end of the summer and then consolidating more on different rock types and styles over the next summer. Seems to have been the pattern.

Yup, I love steep, big holds and lots of gear

In reply to errrrm?: Oh hello! Well done on Poacher. Some say it's a soft touch VS, but I think VS 4b is bang on, as it's quite sustained. Centre has been downgraded in the latest SMC Scottish Climbs to HS I'm afraid (but it's still getting VS in the NE outcrops and on here) and is a fab route so you should lead it anyway. You'll find it easier than Poacher.

My 1st VS was Giant Flake Route at Ballater, just a few 4b moves near the start (unprotected moving off the ground, but once you've made the move you can get gear in) then the rest is easy.

I also did Red Flag at Limekilns which is soft for VS.

Convoy at Ballater, some say is easy, but the crux is pretty technical and solid VS IMO.

Oooooooh, if you thought Poacher was ok, then do Fallen Star also at Logie.

In reply to SonyaD: I remember when you seconded me on giant Flake Route and the expression on yer face when I suggested we abb off the nearest tree back down – I also remember when I did my first E climb and thought now this is fecking real climbing, I still get that feeling when I try something harder than I’ve done before !!

In reply to SonyaD: I've just read all the responses on this thread and thought I'd say my it. I think you are right to feel comfortable at a specific grade before moving on but it is worth going outside the old comfort zone a few times to see what you've really got.

My perspective is a bit warped in terms of trad as I have done a bit or sport and bouldering first and have only recently been getting out on the trad grit. I started seconding my mate on Hollybush crack (VD) in October and then soloed the old Dragon (E2) in April lead Calvary (E4) three weeks ago and fell off Nosferatu (E5) before the gear the weekend after that. Agood little mission for me and it was all interspersed with lots of really easy soloes. The only theme that ran through all of it was the fact that I really liked the look of all the lines. Try not to get scared by a number and you'll motor through the grades although if you suddenly get brave and fall off Nosferatu make sure you've got some mats and good spotters

In reply to SonyaD:

What if I enjoy willy waving


The problem solving is a big part of it for me (the other parts being the 'day out somewhere nice' and 'excitement'). Combining all three is the ultimate but usually unachievable goal.



It varies, sometimes it's incredibly satisfying to finish something 'hard' (my experience is bouldering but I suppose it's pretty universal). Sometimes climbing 'hard' just gets to be a pain in the ass and you need a relaxing day soloing some easy fun stuff or cruising up a big easy route. The enjoyment I get from climbing is much more closely tied to my mood at the time than the difficulty.

That said, it is a good feeling to make progress, tick a new grade, whatever you want to call it.


Hmmm... not sure, <gross generalisation follows> VS tends to be 'easy' having moves between ledges and frequent rests. HVS tends to be similar climbing but more sustained and can feel tough because of that. E1's can be similar and have some pretty tricky moves.

I know that makes no real sense other than perhaps when you consider the moves on most HVS are 'easy', it's stamina I lack. By the time I get to E1 it's the tricky moves I start to notice as the problem. Bold E1 feels like bold VS, pretty easy but you have to be careful.

It's very hard to say which is the biggest step, it's usually the one you're struggling with currently. I suppose HVS and E1 routes are generally more similar in feel than VS and HVS routes are but again, it's a gross generalisation and may be totally wrong in most people's eyes.

jk

In reply to SonyaD:
It's sometimes better not to know the grade. Looking through recent guides to areas where I've not climbed since before E-grades were invented, I discovered I'd been climbing a grade harder than I thought I could, just because they were all "XS".

I've also noticed a paradoxical effect when doing new routes. Without the psychological effect of the grade you simply look for the holds, find the holds, then use the holds. This plus the fact that you're automatically in top-gear when new-routing means that the first ascent is often not too bad. You can get a nasty surprise when you come to repeat it.

In reply to SonyaD:

I think the answer is that as long as you are progressing up through the grades, climbing mostly at or close to your limit - and climbing well at those grades i.e not struggling up things by the skin of your teeth - you'll enjoy it more and more. I only started to enjoy climbing less once my standard started to drop (not only because of age, but other things getting in the way and preventing me training enough). I lot of the enjoyment, I think, depends on how well you climb. Towards the end of the time I was still climbing reasonably well (between HVS and E2) are started to see just how well I could do a route, rather than simply see if I could get up it. That for me was the ultimate enjoyment.

In reply to SonyaD:

"does anyone find that there seems to be a big jump between VS and HVS, but less of a jump between HVS and E1?"

No, the easiest HVS climbs are a lot easier than the hardest VS climbs but not such a big gap as the easiest E1 climbs are easier than the hardest HVS climbs (not a joke btw).

In reply to Offwidth:

The message in this is simple. Grade overlaps are real (inevitable?) and with enough traffic at a grade worrying about the step up is pointless (as its sometimes a step down

In reply to SonyaD:

No really progressed through the grades except a limit amount but... Yes I enjoyed technical and sorting out my head more. But also lack of improvement or gaps in improvement, or climbing a lot less well are not to good after a lay off. ie to sustain the effort if you have a gap in it for whatever reason. not sure if that makes sense, it the thing of knowintg how to do it but not being able to any more.


Hmmmm.... my friends used to say that VS was ok, HVS was a dodgy grade and E1 was better. Bit tired today and can't remember why but I know a few people know never climbed HVS, just did E1. If you like the line and think you can do, just try it. I found the biggest thing was the head thing of, "ooh, it's an E number, scary"

Caveat - I am guessing if you are doing Scottish mountain routes it's a different ball game though.

In reply to Blue Roses:

But life's never that simple. So I'll take on E1s of a certain style and not HVSs of another, but that's got more to do with playing to my own strengths, limitations and hangups than some mistaken belief in 'dodgy grades'.


Been there, done that, got the T-shirt...


Not necessarily.

In reply to Andy Long:

Since I tend to treat routes as the expected grade, I'd find it hard to disagree with that.

By treating routes as the expected grade, I mean I treat a VS as a VS (obviously!) and so on. But telling me an unknown V Diff's VS or vice versa (and you can't always tell by looking) is likely to affect the way I approach it, even if I end up telling you that's never V Diff or never VS!

In reply to petestack: I guess what I was trying to say (not that well!) is that you don't have to progress through the grades in order (partly I guess due to overlaps in grades etc). When I am more awake I might remember why people had a preference for E1 over HVS...

In reply to Blue Roses: Very true! I went from Vs to E1 and still have climbed more E1's that HVS.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth: What he said. I'm much less bothered about grades now than doing the route "properly", and that's from hillwalking to alpine. Like those days in spring when you can't decide if it's winter or not, and you get it majestically wrong and spend the day boiling or freezing.In a disturbing way I'm more bothered about walking in the hills when I should be running, placing too many runners when I should be cruising, faffing at any time. Fighting the grades is fun, but so is Tower Ridge at pace in shorts, bumbag and running shoes. As long as I've "got it right" I don't really mind.

Although this is also a reaction to a young family...opportunities for grade hunting are too few to get stressed about, and any day in the hills need to be treasured for its own benefit.

Oh, and if you wait for long enough you automatically improve as the grades start creeping up of their own accord.....

In reply to Brian: Hey Brian! And I still hate abseiling!

I took someone out for their 1st trad rock climbs the day I did GF Route, not thinking he might struggle a bit on a VS with it being his 1st time rock climbing. He didn't manage that starting move and I was thinking,
'oh f*cking no!'
'I'm gonna have to ab down for all my gear!'

Can you imagine the logistics of abing for your gear off that route?! Especially by someone who doesn't like ab'ing, lol!

Luckily Chris and Paul had turned up and Chris cleaned the route for me.

In reply to SonyaD:


No, but I have found that as I progress through the grades, I have been able to climb lines that have inspired me more. For instance, I climbed London Wall in march. It was one of the most enjoyable routes of my life, purely because it was a route I had dreamed about as a youngster, never thinking I would be able to climb it. When I finally did it, the feeling was great. It's all about achieving what you dream of. If you dream of one day climbing, and one day achieve it, the enjoyment will be great.

I also find enjoyment come from pushing into the next grade range, at or just beyond you limit, as harder routes (than you have previously climbed) require more of you. In this sense it doesn't matter if you are climbing VS or E7, you will still enjoy pushing it.

FOr me, climbing VDiffs is not particularly enjoyable, just because it is so far into my grade range. Anyone else find this?

In reply to luketheape:

No. As much as I'm enjoying my new found confidence and improvement, there are some V.Diff mountain routes that are just soooooooooooo lovely that they should be climbed by everyone at least once.

But, last year I was starting my day off leading by leading a V.Diff to get a feel for the place I was climbing at and to get my climbing head on/warm up etc. I find a Sev does that better for me now, so won't climb any single pitch V.Diffs now, unless I'm having a bad day/it's the end of the day/I want a solo/it look nice.

In reply to SonyaD:

Oooh - get you Sonj - Red Flag - soft touch! I think you're ready to move up a grade my dear! I didn't think it was soft but I did think it was nice and had bomber gear.

I was also going to say - I don't think it's a question of the grade to some extent - I think if you find something that suits your style i.e. for you maybe pumpy and well protected you'll be on to a winner. :-D

The only thing I would say (for me personnally) is get on that HVS while you're full of confidence. I only did one VS last year I think but this year I've done a load of them and found them all ok so I was confident and thought why the hell not!!!! You know what I mean?

I think get on something at the pass - wicked routes 8D

Oh and in reply to errrrm? - I don't like the gear at Cummingston very much - I think there are much better places to go to boost your confidence. =D

In reply to SonyaD:

I really want to do Agags Groove (Sp?) That's a VDiff ain't it?

In reply to SonyaD:

I find however hard I climb the next grade seems like a big deal, until I've done it and then I want to climb harder again.

I used to find VS hard and couldn't conceive of doing another HVS (did 1 right on starting out, kind of a fluke). Then I just climbed lots, threw some weights around and seconded harder routes and now I have the strength and ability to climb many HVS and E1 grade routes. The only trouble is, now I've started thinking about leading an E2 onsight, it never stops!

Also, I can boulder most English 6a moves in a couple of goes, so part of me thinks I really should get my arse up some E4s, hopefully in time.

Climb loads of VS's onsight leading, follow HVS and E1 routes, then leading an easy HVS will not be too bad. I'm sure there are people around who could point you at some suitable local targets.

In reply to MelH: I thought the start of Red Flag was hard and it took me ages to figure it cos I wasn't jamming in the crack, but once I jammed and made the move it was fine. Thought it a bit of a one move wonder. Though the move into the top corner was a bit spicy too.

I'm not keen on the gear at Cummingston on the right hand cliffs, but the cliffs where Left, Centre and Right are, the gear is much more secure and the rock less friable.

Yeah, I like the Pass but the routes there have quite bouldery starts I find, some of them being very reach dependant (I have to almost dyno up for the starting hold on Original Route and also had to lunge up for the starting hold on Giant Flake Route) There's some other VS there, the name of which escapes me, but I couldn't even get off the ground on it as the good holds were miles away and the intermediate holds were utterly tiny.

There's an utterly, utterly fantastic HVS at Logie btw, called Material Advantage. If you're going well, you should try that one. I'll not tell you anything about it, but it's special!

In reply to MelH: PS - Yeah, Agag's is a V.Diff. I didn't think it was anything special tbh. Squareface on Beinn a Bhuird and Bowfell Buttress in teh Lakes have been my favourite V.Diffs. I climbed the last pitch of Squareface really slowly and refused to top out for a while cos I didn't want it to finish, lol!

In reply to SonyaD:

I didn't jam the start in the end, well not the first move anyway - I did a layback from the right - worked really well (that was amanda's idea cos I couldn't get off the ground coming from the other direction haha)


There's a way of doing the start to flake route without jamming and without lunging. If I'm ever there with you I'll show ya! It actually worked really well too. Is the other one you're thinking of Lucky Strike? I was gonna do that but did amy first HVS instead. Have to say I thought the start looked interesting 8P

In reply to MelH: When I say the start of Flake Route, I don't mean the crack (that bit is fine) but the actual move getting off the ground. I can't reach that big jug that you use and have to sort of lunge a bit for it, just get my fingers over the top of it, walk my feet up the blank wall, bridging out, then rock over onto the ledge. There is no crack before that starting move, the crack comes after. But if it is that starting hold you mean, then I'd be dead interested in seeing it done a different way.

Ugh, Lucky Strike is an evil route! (been upgraded to HVS in the new Scottish Rock book) The start is horribly polished. Mind you, I tried it on second when my back was still really bad and I hadn't been climbing for a year, the language from my mouth was something else that day!

The other VS is on the Gully wall, just looked in guide, is called Isolation. Was a few years ago I tried it (on second) so maybe I'd find it easier now.

Loads to do at Ballater though, I've only led a couple of the VS's there. Original Route is the next 5a on my hit list (if I don't bottle that starting move, lol!)

<feels silly replying to this and texting you at the same time btw, lol!>

In reply to MelH:

I may be lying cos I'm talking about Razor's Crack - doh!

In reply to SonyaD:


I know - saddos! ;-P

See my post before - I'm making up moves on routes I've never done! I talk such nonsense sometimes!!! lol

In reply to ksjs: Too true i have led extremes when I thought they were VS.

In reply to SonyaD:

It's not the grade. It's about the type of climbing - http://widefetish.com/

< Usual laugh follows>

In reply to SonyaD:


Big time. HVS is just one of those funny grades. It includes all the climbs that arn't deemed serious enough to have the 'extreme' pricetag yet they follow some very tricky terrain a lot of times.

That said, if your climbing regularly at VS comfortably, then you should be now and again going for it on a HVS, and have a few E1's under your belt. You mention your trad head so thats probably all thats holding you back. Just go for some 'fluttery' VS's and you'll be cruising HVS's in no time.

In reply to Chris Tan Ver. LI - On the Bog: You're a sick, sick man :oD

In reply to SonyaD:

Agreed. your browser ought to block twisted sites like that.

In reply to SonyaD:

I've recently broken into HVS and am finding it very exciting! As when I broke into VS, I'm looking at guidebooks in a whole new light! I'm looking at HVS's as possible to try and not thinking twice about giving VS's a go. Whereas it used to be VS and HS respectively for that. Unlike before, I'm also looking at yet another step up, some E1's, rather than dismissing them out of hand. I think I'm learning that within reason, there is nothing wrong with giving stuff a try, especially if that stuff is "well protected". I'm more psyched about climbing at the moment than I have been for quite a while. I'm enjoying it a lot. But, planning a trip to the Lakes in late June, and want to do Needle Ridge (VD)amongst other things, there are still plenty of "easy" routes I'm very keen to do. About a bazillion in Scotland and a fair number in England and Wales too.

Not sure if I have responded very well to your OP, it's too late to make smooth answers lol. (Have just finished making a Lakes wishlist as am heading there next weekend! :-D Very exciting.)

In reply to Flicka: Made perfect sense to me! Your posts about breaking into VS last year, and breaking into HVS this year, have always been full of excitement and enthusiasm and are always inspiring and a delight to read!

I onsighted another VS today that's been on my ticklist for a while, found another top end VS that I'd like to lead *and* found a stunning looking HVS that's been added to a list of possible first HVS leads (called The Gripper, lol! With 'an intriguingly awkward' move over a roof at the very top)

Fingers crossed for a top notch forecast for next weekend, I want to get out into the mountains to climb!

In reply to Morgan Woods:


hear ye, hear ye!

In reply to SonyaD: Hi SonyaD. Jonny P here. I used to find the e25c grade a killer when pushing on up from hvs/e1. id come away from a days climbing feeling a bit shit when failure raised its head. now i don't realy look at grades just the route! if i like the look of a line i go for that. Somtimes i look at the grade after. I enjoy it more this way its just about climbing routes and having a good day out. I do think big mountain days are the most enjoyable at any grade!If you just go out to climb and see how it goes the grades will come as your experiance,skill etc progress.

In reply to SonyaD: First of all, nice one on climbing some harder routes, it is exciting innit! Next I've found that the difference between VS and HVS for me is that HVS is more committing but not usually more dangerous. Also there is a big difference between an easy and a harder HVS so I'm sure you could lead HVS at the easier end of things now but the ones with 5c cruxes or really sustained 5a might need a bit more practice, depending on your strengths etc.

In reply to SonyaD: There is a bigger jump between VS and HVS than there is between VS and E1.